Ubuntu 12.04 LTS: Like it or not, this Linux grows on you
Ubuntu 12.04, the fourth major Long Term Support (LTS) release for Ubuntu, is serious stuff. LTS editions of Ubuntu are delivered every two years and have extended support from Canonical. They also set the look of the coming years' releases. And this LTS, codenamed Precise Pangolin, has had its support extended from three to …
This topic is closed for new posts.
Re: Anyone who disagrees with this ...
Instead of trying Xubuntu for a Windows-like experience, I would recommend Kubuntu. The UI is surprisingly similar to Vista/7, and should make the transition a bit easier from Windows.
That's not to say that this is the 'perfect' solution, but I suspect you'll be far more at home wiht KDE 4.x, coming straight from Windows, than you will with Unity, Gnome Shell, XFCE, or many of the other available UIs.
Aside from Kubuntu, however, you may find Lubuntu to be to your liking as well, though the UI harks back to Win9x.
Re: Anyone who disagrees with this ...
Thanks DvorakUser, I will give it a go.
Re: bye bye ubuntu
@IGnatius.
No, you don't speak for the whole Linux community, especially me. And no, I'm not paid by Canonical. So basically your whole post is complete bollocks.
Still suffers the same problems
12.04 is far more polished than previous editions but it's still stuck with the same deficiencies which made me hate the last couple of issues.
Biggest issue is that it seems designed for a netbook sized screens and some of this behaviour makes little sense on a large display. For example:
1. Global menus are annoying in a large screen. The amount of mouse travel required to use them becomes a chore especially since I'm less likely to have maximized windows in a larger screen. I may even have two browser windows open tiled side by side and it is not immediately obvious which window the menu applies to without inspecting the subtle window active hints. At the very least it should be a simple user configurable option. Maybe netbooks benefit from the additional vertical space, larger devices don't.
2. Popup scrollbars with elevator style functionality are equally annoying, popping up inadvertently when they're not required and making it less convenient to scroll when you do require them. Again it should be a user configurable option.
3. Unity's launcher is stuck to the left of the screen with extremely limited control on how it renders itself. It needs the options to dock it to the left, bottom or right and to scale the icons. If you don't auto hide this bar it also makes maximized windows look weird since the global bar is left justified but the app is to the right of the bar.
4. The UI as a whole is still very space wasteful. The UI seems determined to scale itself up rather than showing more information that a larger screen would allow. . So I look for apps and it shows me 6 poxy icons and says "80 more results". Why can't it show me those 80 results, in scrolling panel for example? Or at least show me 16, or 24 results. This is terrible behaviour. I have a large screen for a reason and it's not so the UI can show me the same number of icons only bigger.
Aside from all this the Unity UI is infested with recommendations to install apps from the Ubuntu software centre. In the previous example where it says 80 more results, nearly half the of the screen of the screen is wasted recommending I install "Help Hannah's Horse" and other crap from the store. FFS, if I wanted to install "Help Hannah's Horse" I would run the software centre. All that space that could have been showing me stuff I have on my PC is wasted showing me stuff I don't. These recommendations should be removed or moved off into its own tab where I can safely ignore it.
It is a very polished experience but it's a deeply flawed one. I realise Ubuntu have aspirations for small devices but they cannot ignore the fact that many people have big devices. If they do then they'll start to leave for dists which take better care of them.
Re: Still suffers the same problems
@DrXym
"I realise Ubuntu have aspirations for small devices but they cannot ignore the fact that many people have big devices. If they do then they'll start to leave for dists which take better care of them."
Which distributions have you in mind?
Debian: wheezy has GS.
Fedora/OpenSuse: Gnome shell, so similar territory with even less GUI based customisation
RHEL/CentOS/SciLinux/PUIAS: Version 6.x has support for legacy Gnome but this is a dead end. RHEL 7 will I assume use Gnome Shell, Red Hat fund many Gnome project staff
Mint: They are supporting a lot (MATE/Cinnamon) and they depend on Debian/Ubuntu for package repositories hence GS eventually.
Re: Still suffers the same problems
GNOME Shell != Unity.
No wonky scrollbars, global menus, dashboard, HUD or related software recommendations here, matey. (Yes, I am aware that the GNOME folks have their own global menu-esque intentions, and am hoping it doesn't cock up something which is otherwise reasonably sensible and usable.)
Re: Still suffers the same problems
GNOME 3 is far more suitable for large screens than Unity. It shares a few of the same sins but not global menus and hidey scrollbars which are the worst issues by far. It is also extensible so if you don't like the default behaviour you can modify or augment it. There are already a variety of bars and widgets to supplement the vanilla experience.
So yes Fedora would be a good alternative. Or if you want Ubuntu without Unity then Mint. Mint uses the aforementioned extensions in GNOME 3 to give it a GNOME 2 style experience.
@mangobrain Re: Still suffers the same problems
"GNOME Shell != Unity.
No wonky scrollbars, global menus, dashboard, HUD or related software recommendations here, matey. (Yes, I am aware that the GNOME folks have their own global menu-esque intentions, and am hoping it doesn't cock up something which is otherwise reasonably sensible and usable.)"
Red Hat have asked for customer input about RHEL7.
Can you imaging being the GNOME developer who presents the Gnome Shell to the massed IT managers of Red Hat corporate desktop users? You know, the blue shirt/Lenovo/Stock Intsall types?
I suspect there may be some mid-course corrections.
PS: Debian Wheezy is quite nice, currently default install is GS 3.2 ish but 3.4 may land before the freeze date.
Re: Still suffers the same problems
That's about the best summation of my own problems with Unity that I've read.
Re: Still suffers the same problems
If you don't want GS or Unity then follow Linus (and I suspect quite a few techies) to Xubuntu.
Windows 8
MS has already lost two of my users. From XP they've switched to Apples rather than Win7.
Since Win7 is different anyway, with the odd broken bit here or there (old printer drivers, old usb drivers, broken backup, new menus), they figured they might as well go to Apple.
Re: Windows 8
Sorry, but I don't consider security enhancements that force drivers to not tie themselves into the kernel to be "broken bits" just because the hardware manufacturers couldn't be bothered to implement new drivers for their extant hardware set.
That wasn't Microsoft's fault, that was the hardware manufacturers being cheap and/or greedy.
As to broken backup, in what regards? The image based backup in Windows Backup on Win 7 Pro works quite a charm.
Re: Windows 8
Seriously?
Those two users were obviously twonks. The latest Mac OS is such a horrible resource hog, you soon hit disk if you have more than 2 big apps open.
Compared with W7, it is HORRIBLE as an operating system to get work done in.
Re: Windows 8
Open:
LibreOffice (doc with images loaded)
VNC (watching Fringe by way of a break)
Skype
Thunderbird
Safari
Firefox (yes, I use two browsers, sometimes even Opera as well)
iTunes
Memory:
In use: 2.7GB
Free: 1.3GB
Total: 4GB
Swap:
In use: 184MB (i.e. nothing to speak of)
Total: 521MB
Just started a copy of Linux Mint in Virtualbox, and I still have 770MB left - not near swapping yet. The CPU is 87% idle while VLC is playing. Don't see the resource hogging myself, but please don't let hard facts disturb your prejudices..
FYI, there are actually complete private banks switching to OSX. MS can bleat all it wants that OSX is not secure (which indeed it isn't, it needs a virus checker too) but there's a notable difference by several factors of the number of threats out there for Windows and for OSX, and patching doesn't need to be done as frequent as with Windows - a weekly check tends to suffice. Once you have everyone changed over, however, you will also have a massive increase in productivity because the stuff just works.
On the plus side, Windows 7 is actually getting better re. security compared to earlier versions, so well done. It only took them, what? Two decades?
Personally, I switched to OSX because I needed something that was stable enough for daily use without needing a permanent Internet connection to keep up with the eternal patching, but not so fiddly that I had to go and dive into textiles to get things working. When you start looking what you actually get for your money, Macs are not that badly priced (iOS devices are IMHO too expensive), and software prices are OK too.
Change for change sake
Well as if updated the OS isn't difficult enough, they have to throw in a totally new GUI.
There is no way I can sell this to my partner, if I install that on our desktop she'll flip her lid, its taken 3.5 years to get this technophobe to use a computer to start with, if I go changing the user interface I will have to start all over again, and I don't like it much either.
I've been using Ubuntu since 6.06 (yes the late release one), where Nothing really worked that well, I was using the 64bit version which you had 'fun' getting 32bit apps to work in, so I'm not new to Linux and I don't mind a bit of hacking around.
But I feel this is a step to far, and to force it on their users to terrible, fine give us a choice, leave Gnome in and let us 'the users' decided what we want to do.
What is the point of HUD If You Don't Know What The Option Is Your Looking For, how can you search for it? Stupid idea. At least if I am flicking through menus I can be reminded of what I'm looking for.
I guess I was hoping they would leave this rubbish out of 12.04 but no :( I have always used their LTS releases so I don't have to go through the update pain too often, now though, as well as having to go through the update pain, I will have to find a new distro, its seems a choice between Xubuntu or Mint.
Or as I'm increasing tempted to do, is not bother to update at all, I've got another year to figure something out.
Re: Change for change sake
You could try this:
http://www.howtogeek.com/103691/install-linux-mints-new-cinnamon-desktop-on-ubuntu/
Looks OK on my system, although I've not done much with it yet.
Re: Change for change sake
@Leona A
"Or as I'm increasing tempted to do, is not bother to update at all, I've got another year to figure something out."
That is why there is always an 'overlap' of about a year between the LTS releases. 12.04.1 will be smoother than 12.04.0 (just like 10.04.1 was, and by 10.04.2 it was velvet, at least on my hardware).
Have a look at installing Gnome Shell on 12.04. You get a session called Gnome Classic, actually two sessions, one has effects (i.e. compiz, wobbly windows) and the other has no effects (metacity is the window manager). The partner could log into a Gnome Classic session and see the familiar panels, layout &c.
You need to press the Alt key when right clicking over the panels to add launchers/change settings.
Re: Change for change sake
Completely agree with the "Change for change sake" sentiment.
Removing the old-style menus is an idiotic move, especially considering how easily it can be re-added:
http://www.howtogeek.com/105997/how-to-install-the-classic-gnome-menu-in-unity-in-ubuntu-11.10/
Mind you, installing it will cost you a whopping 37kb.
I think the HUD would be nice, if you could talk to it...
If you could just say "Search. Unsharpen. 3" e.g. to search for unsharpen and then pick the third result... or "Search. Unsharpen. 3. Apply 25%". That would be fun, perhaps even useful. Of course, it'd be even quicker with a combination of voice search, and eye tracking to select the appropriate result.
I've started evaluating 12.4
and I immediately ran into several WTF moments right from the start:
On an already working and configured Ubuntu 11.4 system, running the "upgrade" option from the install CD
1) Informed me that it would wipe all my system wide settings!?!
2) Asked me to set up the time zone (which was already set)
3) Asked me to set up my user account (which was already set up. Indeed, under NIS, no less).
4) Formatted some file system (which one I don't know as the formatting message went by too quickly, so it wasn't / or /home - maybe /boot?)
5) Died immediately thereafter, telling me only that "something" went wrong and that it was dropping me to a desktop to work it out myself (with no option of "and here's the log messages as to what went wrong").
So far, not impressive.
Re: I've started evaluating 12.4
You don't need the new CD, you can upgrade with APT the same way you get updates. Try something like this (in a VM first if you don't trust me):
sudo -E -s
cd /etc/apt
mv sources.list sources.list.d/natty.list
sed 's/natty/precise/' < sources.list.d/natty.list > sources.list
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get autoremove
apt-get clean
rm sources.list.d/natty.list
apt-get update
Re: I've started evaluating 12.4
Sad to say, but I may just have to do it that way - I *wanted* to save bandwidth by downloading the CD via Bittorrent, and using that, but there seems to be no way to keep the CD installer from flat-out deleting whatever directories it feels it has the right to (e.g. /etc, /lib, and any other "system" directory, nevermind that I set things up the way I wanted them because damn it is is MY MACHINE).
This is the really silly thing - I can understand "dummy mode" for most people, I can even understand the installer foretelling grave misfortune if I don't let it lobotomise my machine as it sees fit, but damn it I do NOT want my system directories DESTROYED WILLY-NILLY just because they are too damn lazy to get their installer correct.
And I don't understand why Canonical doesn't make 4.6G and 9.2G DVD images available via Bittorrent, to save more downloading from their servers. Let me have as close to a full image, with all the .deb's I can get, on ONE transfer, and save their servers from being hammered.
Maybe I'm being a tad unfair, but Ubuntu seems to have always had issues with standard wireless hardware . I've installed 12.04 on my personal laptop and the Centrino 1000 -N don't work properly and so I've had to switch the router to b/g mode.
I'm happy enough to faff about and now have it working, but if the idea is to get Ubuntu into the mass market, it has to pretty much work straight out of the box with PC's that are based on standard chipsets.
I read this article hoping that Ubuntu would be rescued from unity. but not. its even worse now.
If the linux gods want to do someting, perhpas they could make a useful wysiwig web app editor and or graphics tool set that does not make users cry out in pain.
I see we still haven't learnt
The point that UI designers miss is that there is no single UI that will keep all users happy, or even the same user happy (doing different tasks). There cannot be - so stop trying.
What we really need are per-user UI choices to be selectable at login time. Imagine that on the login screen was a chooser that let you pick your UI style between, say, "tiles", "windows", "lite" and "shell". I might pick/default to tiles for the friendly Win8-style/metro l&f, but if I wanted to spend an hour doing image work in gimp I would pick windows for a traditional windows/fvwm sort of interface.
I understand it's sort of heretical these days to suggest machines having multiple window managers, because we've taken the direction of gnome, kde etc taking over your life, but it has a lot of merit.
Finally, in case anyone says "can't be done", this used to be available on UNIX machines running (shudder) the Common Desktop Environment. CDE was such an ugly beast that pretty much my first click when arriving at a login screen was to make sure that my session was set to OpenWindows. Ahh, that's better.
Re: I see we still haven't learnt
<Gnome_developer mode="on">
"What we really need are per-user UI choices to be selectable at login time."
BLASPHEMER! HERETIC! UNBELIEVER! Do you not know The One True Way Of User Interface Design What Was In A Book I Read! That The One True Path shall be followed by all users! The Gods Of Interface Design hath Decreed that user preferences are The Tool Of The Evil One and shall not be permitted! All user must have the same, holy One True User Experience! So It Has Been Written, So It Shall Be Done!
</Gnome_developer>
(of course, it is perfectly fine to bury user choices twelve levels deep in the Registry, err, I mean Gconf.)
Re: I see we still haven't learnt
Switching desktop environments for different users works fine on OpenSuse, and it remembers desktop choice on a per user basis. There's a long list of different choices available - KDE, Gnome, WM, Enlightenment, LWM, etc., etc.
mainframe testing software
Mainframe applications are at the heart of the IT environments of major corporate and government organizations. They are critical assets that need constant monitoring and regular updating. Today, most applications require enhancements, code fixes and maintenance on a regular basis. This makes the automation of regression testing a necessity.
Hoe much did they pay you ?
How much did they pay you to write this dross, I like ubuntu, it works, reliable etc, but the UI is from another galaxy, no business user is going to put up with this.
I need multiple open windows on a given desktop window, I have a LARGE screen for exactly that reason, having to remember EVERY menu's command? and type it in ? come on, gui's are supposed to be useful, G -> Graphical , g ^= TEXT.
I'll keep Ubuntu, with XFCE , now that's an interface to be useful.
Say what you want about M$
But all of their stuff since Vista 64 has been rock solid.
You'd never see a crash reporting app crash in windows.
Re: Say what you want about M$
I note from the downvotes that some people have a problem with recognising sarcasm :)
I was prepared to give it a go but...
... I'm right-handed, I like things that I use frequently with the mouse to be on the right side of my screen. It's my choice that's the way I work.
So I thought I'd move the launcher bar to the righthand side of the screen. No biggie surely?
Three hours, and several fruitless Google searches later, all I'd found was the statement from Ubuntu that they weren't letting people move the launcher bar because it was part of their 'design philosophy' for it to be on the left.
It was at that point that I gave up, deleted Ubuntu from my machine and installed Linux Mint.
Re: I was prepared to give it a go but...
Where have I heard that before:Your desktop. Their design philosophy.
Ah yes. Microsoft have the same arrogant attitude.
The reason why I don't like Unity
Unity was designed for people running a single application in (nearly) full screen mode (or maximized or whatever). This may be great for 800x480 netbooks, but it doesn't work on my 3840x1080 desktop.
It's a LOW res screen
1080 high IS LOW RESOLUTION. It may be wide - I assume you're running two monitors - but high it ain't.
Where's the programs?
After reading this I thought I'd download it and spark it up in a VM on my Mac, just to see what you're all going on about. Fine; installed, updated, ran Firefox so connectivity's great.
But now I want to run some other programs. How? I can't see any "Programs" or "Applications" folder on the screen... It's like that damn Windows 8 - what's the bloody point of hiding all the sodding programs?
Let me start gently, then work up my experience as I get to know it better. I expect these user interfaces to be better than this. I want to be able to switch my NON-TECHNICAL family away from the scourge of Microsoft; they couldn't give a damn about the OS and I want something more reliable than Windows.
What a pain.
Quick Question ..... ?
I'm already running 11.10 on my laptop, because I wanted to get it up and running as quickly as possible. Is it possible to upgrade by
$ sudo sed -i 's/oneiric/precise/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
$ sudo ( apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade )
or is Ubuntu not that similar to Debian ?
Re: Quick Question ..... ?
Simpler - "sudo do-release-upgrade"
Bring on the Alternative Interfaces
Let there be choice and freedom all round. HUD looks well worth playing with
BUT
Even Microsoft, having developed a really well-thought-out desktop and menu system that almost defined intuitive had the good grace to let us choose to keep it through several subsequent versions. That, to me, seems to be the bottom line.
So, as soon as I have some disk space (1Tb awaiting a warranty claim :( ) I'll be trying out 12.04 --- but I'll be aiming to make it look, work and feel like 10.04, complete with Compiz and the tweaks that I use every day, whether it takes Mate, Cinnamon, or even moving to Mint.
Kubuntu 12.04 here...
...on an old Core2 Duo T5250 (2 x 1.5 GHz CPU) with 2GB of RAM. It absolutely flies, and KDE4 (at 4.8), finally seems ready for prime time! (finally KDE 3.5.9 can be put to bed). I haven't found anything that doesn't work yet (all hardware out of the box and initial install, all working fine on this Acer 5920 lappy).
I tried Unity but I really didn't like it, and have stuck with Ubuntu 10.04 on the kids pc, and may go either Cinamon, or Mint when the time comes for that one. Kubuntu will now be the default desktop for this house (once again), now they sorted out the unholy mess that earliy KDE 4 was.
Anyone not liking their Ubuntu options, really should give Kubuntu a try! :)
Matt,
Re: Kubuntu 12.04 here...
Kubuntu here too - but I still got hit by the imbecile decision to disable hibernate in an obscure config file. Time to look at openSuse, or pure Debian, I guess.
Don't understand what beef you guys have with Unity or HUD
Does it really matter if there is this bar appearing or disappearing at the left? What matters is that there IS some UI development. What is far more important are things, like: no add-on-marketing-bloatware, cool shell scripting, strong file attributes (security, anyone?), a choice of filesystem formats, free encryption, and other industry standard tools and toys (pdf print, pdf manipulation, DNS, NTP, NFS, SSH, rsync...), which are so easy to set up and mostly free, tons of online support and geek pages which outnumber the ones for RHEL/CentOS....
What could also be mentioned is the increasing number of applications for Ubuntu Desktop that are now taking the innovation crown and yet are mostly free. One example is Calligra Suite, by all means this still has a long way to go and is not as polished as LibreOffice, but from a technology perspective breathtaking.
Just one little question..
"What matters is that there IS some UI development"
Why exactly?
From what I've seen so far, people get used to a certain way of working, and are perfectly happy to be left with that approach - if you want change you will get at best away with incremental changes (such as enabling menu shortcuts and let them learn those for functions often used).
I have been through KDE 3 -> 4, and GNOME 2 -> 3. Both changes sucked seven ways to Sunday because there was NO, repeat, NO way to transport skills or working methods forward, and no change to roll back for users who didn't like the change - it was simply rammed down their throat. Microsoft spends an absolute fortune convincing people that any new UI is "better" (most of us know it for the BS it is), and such a budget doesn't exist for Open Source, nor the lock in.
Ergo, every change rammed down people's throat (without, I may add, even the smallest sliver of user consultation) risks alienating people who already had to be gently coaxed out of the Microsoft camp. So where do they go? Depending on budget they either run back to Microsoft, or go to Apple. Well done.
Linux may be innovative, but those UI changes will be the death of it yet. As long as you piss off or frighten Joe and Sally End User, Linux will not get any traction. Every time it becomes interesting, raw stupidity like this kills the build up.
back to the future
Reming me what was the point of the mouse again? Oh yes, to avoid learning command by heart and then typing them. Keyboard shortcuts are all good when you become an advanced user, but when you start you want to see what is there. Guess how? VIA A MENU!
> Instead of mousing to the Filters menu, then selecting Sharpen, and then selecting Unsharp Mask, you can simply hit the alt key and type "uns" and the top hit is Unsharp Mask.
How fantastic! Does Control-KB and Control-KK start allow me to mark text too?
Morons!
Good enough
The keyboard functions and annoying static side bar notwithstanding, Ubuntu is more than ready for enterprise use. Really any OS that can open a browser, run a productivity suite and has some e-mail client does everything 99% of the users need. Ubuntu is more secure than Window and equally if not more stable. Wrap it into some useable stack with VDI, access and provisioning, productivity, and e-mail, like IBM's Smart Client, and it should be ready to give MS a run for their money. How do people still justify the use of Windows? You have two OSs that will do what you need more or less equally well. One costs 10-20% the cost of the other all told.
Has anyone ever heard of squeeze? Or sid?
I find it rather amusing. Ubuntu is just a layered addon to a sid snapshot. Ubuntu "Server" is a joke. I've finally managed to retire most of the 10.04 server boxes I inherited and replace them with squeeze. If you want a stable system run vanilla Debian and put the packages on you like. You will get the added benefit of sysvinit among other normalcies. If you want to bleed on the edge with all the snivel. Well 12.04 baby.
Not suited to businesses which use Exchange for e-mail
It's not suitable for business for the simple reason that it can't connect to Exchange. The later (ie, working) versions of exchange-ews don't work as the version of the GNOME software in this Ubuntu is too old and Canonical didn't put any effort into backporting evolution-ews to their older version of GNOME.
It says a lot about about the half-arsedry which is Canonical that they'd ship an operating system aimed at business users without a decent connector to Exchange.
Lol. Sorry but this is funny. We have people slagging of Windows 8 - well yeah. Fair enough considering what's being reviewed here and the fact that Metro stinks. But the really funny bit (to me) is the way people are also slagging/off supporting nearly half a dozen different variants of Linux and/or their shells.
Sure choice is good..but really. Do we see the same kind of infighting about different Windows flavours in reviews about Windows? No. We see plenty of complaints but the most you'll get is three camps:XP lovers, Win 7 accepters and Win 8 haters.
Divide et impera. No wonder that even when it screws up Microsoft still stays on top.
What's the fuss
want classic gnome - log off and choose it from the options
want gnome 3 - install it from the software centre.
frankly, on my netbook, i quite like Unity, one tap access to the few programs I use the most. Not so struck on a desktop, but there are the alternatives.
This topic is closed for new posts.
