back to article Mummy, mummy, there's a nuclear monster!

The total non-story of the Fukushima nuclear powerplant "disaster" – which has seen and will see no deaths or measurable health consequences for anyone anywhere – has received a shot in the arm today with the news that Japanese authorities have upgraded the incident to a Level 7 on the nuclear accident scale. This was reported …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Fed up of over-reactions to over-reactions.

    Seemingly there is now only one thing worse than nuclear scaremongers, and that is imbalanced rantings of nuclear accident denying plonkers like yourself.

    Perhaps you could use the considerably insignificant fortune you've amounted writing these articles to relocate yourself and your family (although I sincerely hope you have none) to a nice empty house within the 1km exclusion zone around Fukushima. From there you can write us a daily blog on how quiet the roads are.

    Whilst there perhaps you can help knock up a papier mache entombment chamber for the reactors and perfectly safe byproducts of the Fukushima controlled shutdown, and keep the unseasonably warm sea water they've been keeping for a rainy day in your outdoor swimming pool.

    Let's not worry to much whether a plume of plutonium dust happened to land in your back garden as the total amount of radiation emitted when multiplied out by X square metres of the 1km exclusion zone is well within the amount my airline pilot friend was exposed to before he happened to contract non-Hodgkins Lymphoma.

    Finally when this scare story finally runs out you can get back to your day job of ranting about second hand cigarette smoke, global warming conspiracies and writing your wikipedia page that proves the earth really is flat.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Dont' mistake cause and effect

      @AC 15:26GMT

      Whilst I'm sorry to hear of your friends illness, I would like to point out that one of my friends also developed (and died of) non-Hodgkins Lymphoma; he was driving a milk tanker in rural Staffordshire though. Maybe milk cases cancer?

      1. Andrew Norton

        And

        My step-daughters cousin got it when she was 22, and had just had a baby (he's now 11). Maybe babies cause it!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        Cause == overreaction, effect == overreaction in opposite direction

        Sorry to hear about your friend, ours seems to have beaten it for the time being.

        You mistake my reasons for mentioning it which were simply to highlight the meaninglessness of invoking "dose levels" for aircrew. Who knows whether my friend was unlucky or it was related to his work, perhaps it was radiation, perhaps it was jet fumes, who knows.

        What matters is that Mr Page seeks to condemn overreactions and in doing so it guilty of a similar overreaction. The truth is of course somewhere inbetween the two.

  2. M Gale

    Wind? Low tech?

    Just because it doesn't involve smashing atoms into their component particles, doesn't mean modern computerised windfarms are anything short of mind-bogglingly complex. Yes, the basic operation is "wind makes a set of blades turn around", but that's a little like saying "stuff enough uranium in one place and it gets very hot".

    That and aerogeneration as we know it hasn't been around for much longer than nuclear power. It's a modern technology. Oh, there's some small scale electrical generation going back to the late 19th century, and people have been filling sails with wind for millennia. The heavy duty stuff however, only really started appearing in the 30s and 40s, possibly due to revolutions (har har) in aerofoil design.

    Now if you can put a big metal and chicken-wire frame around the things and make them look like giant desk fans, you could probably get rid of the one real environmental impact of wind farms which is the exploding pink feather clouds that tend to result from flocks of birds flying through the blades.

    1. Andrew Jones 2

      re: birds

      http://www.birdsandbuildings.org/faqs.html#4

      I suppose we should all replace our windows with bird friendly ones too?

      1. M Gale

        I didn't say "should".

        I said "could."

        And yes, you could. If you were concerned by that sort of thing.

      2. dr2chase
        Pint

        Rubber windows

        Sproing!

    2. Andydaws

      And, with all of that high tech...

      Wind still as to obey a basic physical law - the energy impinging on the blade discs varies with the thrid power of the wind speed.

      The implications of which are huge.

      Say you design for twice the average windspeed in an area - i.e. when you get your maximum output. When the wind's blowing at the average speed, then you get 1/8th of your design capacity.

      Which matters, of course, since it's the peak output that determines the cost of the plant, in terms of size and complexity of components, erection cost and so on. That's why costs get quoted in £/KW.

      Alternatively, if you design for average speed, you still only produce a fraction of your (lower) output - because half the time the blades are feathered, and the available energy below the average speed still varies with that third power.

      Keep making the plants higher tech, they just get more expensive - and do bugger-all to affect that fundamental lmitation.

      Next, Betz's law, and why there's a thermodynamic limitation of 56% in terms of a wind turbine's ability to extract the energy from incident wind.

      1. MrBilious

        And, with all of that high tech...

        @Andydaws

        Initially I thought wind power was a complete waste too but reducing the cost of said components, materials and general mass saving will then lead to cheaper foundations and erection. Secondly (as I've read in prior Reg articles), having optimised aero elastic surfaces on the blades like on helicopters and laser monitoring of oncoming wind will give a good efficiency increase too. I really think that in 10-20 years current turbines will look like museum pieces. Cost/KW is just going to go down and down and become more and more financially viable.. Especially when you consider the vastly increasing fuel costs in the future.

        1. Andydaws

          MrBillious

          I think you've misunderstood the nature of windfarm costs...

          First, costs are rising, not falling - historically, they've gone up ahead of inflation. There's a glut on the market at the moment, but that's maintly reflecting cancellations.

          Second, if anything capacity factors, etc. are likely to fall - inevitably, in the main more favourable sites get developed first, and then more expensive/less favourable sites later. THat's certainly been the experience as shown to date

          Third, the empirical evidence is, developers are demanding higher, not lower subsidies with time, in order to get projects launced. The original (onshore) schemes could make money at 1 RO/Mwh. Then, in 2009 or 2010, that had to be upped to 1.5RO, and subsequently 2 RO/MWh, for HMG to be able to claim that it was maintaining progress. That's due to drop back to 1.5 sometime in the next 12 months - my bet is, it'll end up being maintained at 2 RO.

          However, there's a more fundamental reason why you're not about to see step change - all the things you mention increase capital cost, while (potentially) improving performance. however, there are good reasons to doubt that increasing performance can make a step change in economics.

          Have you heard of "Betz's law"?

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betz'_law

          It's a manifestation of the second law of thermodynamics - which places a limit on the maximum proportion of the energy incipient in the blade disc that can be recovered. It's a bit under 60%. Further, there are limits on how close that can in reality be approached, and that varies with the wind/blade speed.

          Current generation turbines already do fairly well - they'll remove 40% plus of the available energy. But note that - that means at best they could do half as well again.

          Then, there's the matter of how much energy's actually available. it varies with the CUBE of wind-speed. So, if I design a turbine to make 1MW in a 50 kph wind (at maximum output), it means two things - anything more than that, I'll have to waste energy (because it's the maximum my plant is built for), or worse, trip to avoid overspeeding the blades. Second, it means if the wind's 20kph, I'm not going to get 400Kw of the design maximum ouput - I'm going to get 64Kw.

          In reality, I'll get less, because of that efficiency relationship.

          Also, as to costs. If you look at where the cost is in a turbine build, it's dominated by site-erection costs, and by a few major components - the blades, hub and pylon. The generator itself, and the gearbox probably account for no more than 10-15% of the cost of an erected turbine.

          Why's that important? None of them are likely to be impacted greatly by economies of scale in production. Blades are basically aircraft wings (especially so if you make them more complex, as you suggest). Despite having an aircraft industry operating for a century, we've never managed to apply mass production/assembly line techniques to wing construction, especially larger ones. Go to any Airbus or Boeing factory, and you'll see it's dominated by hand-assembly processes - right down to the rivetting of wing-skins onto the underlying structure. Most turbine blades are made from fibreglass - hand-laid, and subject to multi-day curing times. An even worse prospect...Similarly, we're never automated propellor or rotor hub construction, for reasons of complexity.

          The same applies to the pylon, and pretty much by definition to the erection activities.

          You've completely lost me as to why foundation costs should come down - the experience to date is very much the opposite, that rigidity, etc. will have to increase from earlier designs - many of which are suffering from grouting failures, etc. And the desing of foundations will always be dominated by the local geology/soil mechanics. No economies of scale there.

    3. galbak
      Thumb Up

      Flying macnuggets

      On that note, is there anyway we can use one problem, (bird-unfriendly slice and dice windmills) to solve another problem, airborne vermin like seagulls, and feral pidgeons that crap all over the place and cost thousands of tax payers pounds to clean up after?

      We could even put the wind generators near landfill sites, and on top of local govement buildings in town, bonus points for sending the worst civil servants out to clean them, without head gear.....

      franc.

  3. Jolyon

    Concollusion

    "As for the INES nuclear incident scale and Fukushima's new 7 rating – the highest possible – you could draw various lessons from that.

    But the only rational conclusion to draw is that an industry which can have an accident at the extreme top of its possible internationally agreed accident scale without killing a single person is already so safe that it probably deserves to relax its costly precautions quite a lot"

    This may be true but it's not a conclusion you can draw at all yet (as you half acknowledge with your 'probably) and it certainly isn't the *only* conclusion that can be drawn - that the rating system is flawed being one other.

    We may be able to provide nuclear power more cheaply with relaxed safety regulation but we've not established this for certain yet.

    This sort of jumping to hoped-for conclusions together with the sneering tone does not result in articles which give me a lot of hope that the argument will be swung in the right direction for the right reasons.

    Is there any chance of a bland, unsensationalist Reg article by an expert plainly summarising the facts?

  4. HP Cynic
    Flame

    I can't take them seriously NOW

    If the top rating on that scale is 7 and they've decided this non-event is a 7 then what happens if there is one day a true nuclear disaster somewhere - a meltdown, a massive explosion wiping out a town or similar or similar "Disaster Movie" fare?

    Will the scale be revised up to 11?

    Truly pathetic.

    1. Highlander

      That's precisely why the INES level is a poor measure...

      This is exactly the point. the INES level is not a measure of the harm done, rather like the scale for hurricanes if has a maximum category, and once you hit that maximum, it doesn't matter how far you go past the max, it's just maximum. But there's a world of difference between a minimal category 5 hurricane and a 200MPH cat 5 storm. Actually, there's several orders of magnitude difference in the destructive capacity, but the scale doesn't adequately reflect that.

      Even that comparison is a poor one because the INES level is not an indicator for the number of fatalities or the number of people who's health is definitely affected. It relates to the amount of material released and they types of response required. Since a large quantity of very short lived isotopes were released, the amount of material probably qualifies it as INES 7 despite the fact that in the case of the Iodine released approximately 6% of it remains active, so the original release was large, but the lasting consequence - of the Iodine - is not. Because some cesium was also released (longer half life) and there are hotspots that will require cleanup, evacuations and planned countermeasures are required. the counter measures will include topsoil removal at a reasonable distance from Fukushima, which also is a qualifier for INES level 7. so according to the scale itself, level 7 is probably right. But as can be seen, level 7 doesn't mean scores of deaths and many hundreds of injuries, just that there was a messy accident that needs clean-up.

      Of course now I'll be accused of downplaying it when all I'm doing is offering some perspective on what INES level 7 actually means in this context.

  5. Alex Walsh

    MIT made me laugh

    http://mitnse.com/2011/04/07/regulatory-limits-on-radiation-dose/

    "However, what is of interest today in Japan are dose-rates more like 10, 30, or 100 times background. What about these dose rates? ... low doses and low dose rates led to increased longevity rather than the decreased lifespan seen at higher doses and dose rates."

    So basically a load of Japanese people are going to live longer.

  6. frank ly
    Stop

    Thyroid Cancer Is Curable - but .....

    "Fortunately, thyroid cancer – unusually among cancers – is almost always curable without ill effects...."

    Not so. It is curable, in some cases by surgical operation (very tricky given the location of the thyroid gland) or more usually by zappng the cancer cells (and the rest of the thyroid gland) with a high dose of radioactive iodine. Either way, the end result is the destruction of the thyroid gland. This has the consequence (obviously) that the thyroid gland no longer functions to produce essential thyroid hormones, which are required for every aspect of body cell metabolism.

    The 'solution' to this problem is to take a daily dose of thyroid hormone (in simple tablet form) for the rest of your life. Getting the dosage right takes ages and the absorption via the upper intestine is variable, depending on individual factors as well as the day to day 'quality' of the gut, i.e. it is subject to variations due to 'tummy troubles' etc. If you don't take this hormone replacement treatment, you slowly die over a period of months. While you're messing about getting the dosage right ( 7- day half life in the body, dosage changes take over a month to stabilise), your body metabolism gets royally screwed up and has consequences for the liver and other organs which take years to recover, if they ever do.

    Just check out any web-forum for people who suffer from this condition. Removal/destruction of the thyroid gland gives you problems for the rest of your life. I should know because I have to take thyroid hormones every day and I am quite well 'managed' compared to some people in a similar situation.

    Thyroid cancer is curable, but it gives you a lifetime of ill effects and inconvenience.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Err...

      Inconvenient yes, but not quite on the same level as dying of radiation sickness which is what the mainstream media seem to want people to believe will happen if you drink contaminated water in Japan. I believe Lewis was just trying to make clear that rather than suffer radiation sickness you're only increasing your risk of thyroid cancer (an illness that is curable in most cases and the long term effects are - in your own words - only 'inconvenient') by a measly 0.02%.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. maclovinz
    Flame

    FUCK ALL THIS

    ACHTUNG!!! Flaming post ahead!

    Nobody writing "articles" (more like blog posts) knows what they are talking about at all, since NONE of them are Atomic Scientists, nor have you been on the ground there, have ye? (Just making a guess, maybe I'm wrong....but I doubt it.)

    It's a fucking disaster! Will it spread the world over, NO, but it HAS BEEN (already) bad for the immediate area.

    So, just shut the fuck up and let these good people work to save their own asses.

    Look at the way these people in Japan handle themselves just to make a phone call or get food. They don't knock each other over madly, or get into fights, like we would is most western nations. When the cards are down, western nations, with all their religious beliefs of "peace" and "love thy neighbor" say, "FUCK everyone else, I'm FIRST."

    I have an agenda to push: A person CAN be smart, but most people are fucking stupid and annoying, and ruin the Earth for everyone else.

    Flame on.

  8. caffeine addict
    Flame

    Oh the cowards...

    Dear god these comment pages would be boring if the Anonymous option was taken away.

    1. maclovinz
      Pint

      Yeah...

      i get annoyed sometimes (as above) but, I don't mind the screen name being there. I get annoyed, I'm human (.....as far as you know, muahhahaahaa!!!!).

      Unfortunately, even 'i' can get a little irrational every once in a while. But, my point above isn't all wrong, because things on this earth ARE being ruined by humans. If they used a newer technology in their reactor or updated it, like to an LFTR, then this would never have happened, as they are practically meltdown-proof, as there is no pressurized components like in the 40-year-old technologies (even still) currently being implemented in new construction today.

      But still, most commentards don't have a clue HOW the technology behind it works, NOR have they been there to survey the reactors themselves. Nor WOULD they go given the opportunity, as they'd be scared shitless of the radiation consequences even though they purport that there are NO consequences from it.

      Ah well. I'll have anuther beer...

  9. Andrew Jones 2

    re: a title

    Sorry - by Doonray (Dounreay) I obviously meant Torness - I am forever getting those two mixed up....

    1. defiler

      Torness, in East Lothian

      It's an AGR - the cooling's a lot cleverer than these boiling-water reactors. I'll not suggest that it's faultless, but the steam explosions (Chernobyl) and hydrogen explosions (Fukushima) are avoided by using a gas as your coolant. (Carbon dioxide off the top of my head - oh no, my carbon footprint!) But that's the difference between a 25-year-old reactor and a 40-year-old reactor. I dread to think how hard it is to break a new design...

      I've already said it to people I work with. If Torness starts to go awry, I'll be driving over and camping by the gates just to prove a point. Still, it's not in an earthquake zone, nor a tsunami / tidal-wave zone, it's at the top of a cliff, and one of the most significant safety events since it was built was an RAF Tornado breaking down in the sky above it, and the pilot had to turn away from the plant before ejecting.

      I guess, as Lewis says, we should have got rid of those pesky Tornados!

      1. Andydaws

        as someone who worked on..

        the design for Torness and it's sister station, Heysham II, you're a bit off on a few points...

        First, Torness and Heysham II vare both based on a lightly tweaked version of the design from Hinkley Point B and Hunterston. Which were ordered in about 1968. It's definitely 40 year old tech - they were the first two stations with fully digital control systems!

        Steam/hydrogen reactions inside the core are a possibility - they're one of the design basis events. It's because the boilers sit inside the pressure vessel with the core (there's a seriously big steel gas baffle between them, but coolant flow would carry water round). Bursting pipes on a boiler are a scram event.

        The reason the AGR is safe for that event is simple. A f**k off big 5 meter thick reinforced concrete pressure vessel. And, since the core's inside the gas baffle, any blast effect has to find it's way round the bottom of it before it can impact anything load bearing.

        It's a bastard to build, though (along with some other bits). And you do have to have more shutdown redundancy than other designs, since you can lose coolant circulation, while still having moderation. That's why they were a bit of a dead end.

        They're designed to be slightly leaky, though. I can't recall the exact number, but it's either 5 tonnes of CO2 a day, or a week. It was fun sitting at the gates during the miners strike, watching the pickets wave through the CO2 tankers and waiting to stop fuel deliveries to Heysham I.

        1. maclovinz
          Happy

          LFTR?

          So, since you seem to have a grasp on the technology, am I correct that an LFTR has lees possibility (to nil) of a meltdown?

          1. Andydaws
            Heart

            well, at one level....

            you might argue that an LFTR is in a state of continual meltdown, in that the fuel's in liquid form - but that's being slightly flippant.

            The real answer is "perhaps". The usual argument made by LFTR/MSR proponents is that the fuel can me drained down into cooling tanks. I'm less than entirely convinced. There's still a lot of heat to get rid of (not as much as a conventional reactor, as a lot of the fission products are continually removed). The claim is that that can be done by air cooling - my reaction is, that's viable with a small unit (up to perhaps 100MW thermal, at a guess), but when dealing with the several hundred tonnes core inventory of something economically sized, that's unlikely to be feasible. Losing tens of megawatts to air needs a lot of surface area! I'm sure there are passive systems that could work, using water, but that's not the best mix with hot salts....

            The MSR's safety challenges are rather different (and are heavily tied to the challenges of making it viable economically and technically). At least in thorium fuelled form, they are marginal on neutron economy. To work the fission products that act as neutron absorbers ("poisons") need to be removed aggressively, and that's not easy to do. Taking out the worst - Xenon - involves spraying the 700-800C fuel at pressure through an inert atmosphere, and then isolating the gas while it decays. Taking out protactinium (a precursor of u233 in the breeding cycle) involves bubbling fuel through liquid bismuth. Getting out any surplus uranium involves forcing flourine through the fuel, and taking off the resultant uranium hexaflouride (nasty stuff, too). Removing the other stuff is no less challenging - and although you've extracting things like iodine and caesium, the inventory is still stored on site.

            The net result is, although the main circuit may have advantages, a lot of the ancillary plant is pretty high hazard, and hard to do things like earthquake protection.

            TBH, I don't know that the overall result is likely to be net safer than a conventional approach. The one things that's for certain is that these beasts will be a lot more complicated and harder to run than the enthusiasts would have you believe.

        2. Andydaws

          Apologies, one thing I should have made clear re Torness.

          Any hydrogen production would be from a graphite-water reaction, not zirconium-water as in TMI and Fukushima. that's because there's no zircalloy - AGR fuel pins are stainless steel clad. It's better mechanically than zircalloy, about the same thermally, but not as good for neutron economy.

          I'm developing a bee in my bonnet that a moved to stainless stell cladding across the board might be no bad thing - it'd mean higher-enrichment fuel, but in an LWR would remove the possibility of hydrogen generation.

  10. sisk

    ENOUGH WITH THE ******* WHITEWASH!

    #1) Officials don't raise warning levels in response to public fear. Doing so would be counter productive. Nor do they do so because they're being 'badgered'.

    #2) I dare say that the officials on site know more about both the current situation and the long term consequences of radioactive pollution than a reporter sitting in Britan.

    #3) Would you feed your child food from that area? Yeah, I thought not.

    Ok, so the quake and the tsunami were worse. That doesn't mean that this isn't a disaster.

    As for Chernoble

    1. Andydaws

      You've an odd idea of how the official mind works....

      "#1) Officials don't raise warning levels in response to public fear. Doing so would be counter productive. Nor do they do so because they're being 'badgered'."

      Officials respond to the agenda set by their political masters.

      "#2) I dare say that the officials on site know more about both the current situation and the long term consequences of radioactive pollution than a reporter sitting in Britan."

      So far as I'm aware, the INES scale has nothing to say about long term consequences - note, it was in place as far back as the 1970s, before we derived a large proportion of our knowledge.

      "#3) Would you feed your child food from that area? Yeah, I thought not."

      Yes.

      Given that I've lived in parts of the country where radon exposures would be a multiple of the exposures you'd get even from eating stuff with heavy iodine contamination for a year - which is impossible for obvious reasons - and expose the lungs, a far more sensitive organ.

      1. ThomB

        "Officials respond to the agenda set by their political masters...."

        @ Andydaws

        They often do. However, I suppose that in this case the term "masters" would apply to the Japanese government. If you agree on that, please explain to me what these people hope to gain from constantly pushing up the incident's INES level -- billions in foreign aid?

        1. Andydaws

          ThomB

          Simple. The one thing politicians always have to do, in a democracy when something over which they have no control is going on.

          They need to look like they're "doing something". Especially something that'll be popular, or reassuring.

          Let's be honest, Kan can do fuck-all to impact the outcome of what's happening in the station (at least, in a positive way). And he (and his government) have looked pretty inept so far. So, it's time to look like "we're getting a grip"

          1. ThomB

            "Let's be honest, Kan can do fuck-all..."

            "And he (and his government) have looked pretty inept so far."

            Yup. Agreed. As have the TEPCO management and the majority of people concerned with this case, explicitly excluding the rescue/safety teams on site, even if they sometimes were helpless as well.

            Problem is, anyone who's not totally blind could notice that ineptitude (or those respective ineptitudes) early on. And that impression doesn't go away just because suddenly someone attempts to 'look better'. Which likely explains why TEPCO's former president fell off the face of the earth -- health conditions aside.

            So the gain, if it exists, is minimal at best. You have any other ideas?

            1. Andydaws

              I didn't say it would work,

              Just that it's what politicians tend to do!

              Incidentally, I'm not quite so condemnatory of TEPCO - The main thing I'd fault is that they're being hyper conscious of not being seen to be holding back data, and if anything are tending to rush stuff out into the public domain too fast - e.g. the various radiation and radioisotope assay errors. Plus, perhaps too much raw data and not enough context.

              As far as the handling of the plant is concerned, they've done pretty well, in the circumstances. Especially allowing for the critical early period when they pulled back manning to just 50 people on site. I've a feeling that in retrospect, that'll be seen as entirely well-intentioned, but a mistake.

              1. ThomB

                *LOL* okay...

                ...point taken. You didn't, and it is.

                Regarding TEPCO, my being condemnatory results from the company's track record of cover-ups in previous years, cover-ups they themselves have admitted to on several occasions. In my eyes that takes away a big chunk of their credibility.

                As for "too much raw data and not enough context", that's a problem indeed, and not just for TEPCO. It's been an issue in the ongoing discussion about LP's articles as well, what with pointing people to databases and IAEA logs that provide 'more of the first and less of the latter' -- at least from the perspective of a non-engineer. And that is exactly where part of the trouble comes from: roughly 99 percent of all people don't have a degree in nuclear physics etc., so they *need* context, which is exactly what the expert sources don't give them enough of. As a result, there's growing mistrust -- and quite naturally so, considering that the technology at hand is permanently linked with Hiroshima and Chernobyl. Maybe not technically, but symbolically, in people's minds.

                But that's psychology, not physics.

                1. Andydaws

                  TBH though, Tom

                  You DON'T need a degree in nuclear physics to follow this stuff. I've explained most of it to my other half, and she's an accountant., and to my mother, who's in her middle 70s....

                  The problem is, the people who could explain it really well - like this lady:

                  http://news.engineering.iastate.edu/2011/04/05/hardings-lecture-on-the-fukushima-nuclear-power-plant-is-online/

                  don't get media bandwidth because they're not saying the exciting stuff. Instead, they're explaining calmly and reasonably what's going on, what's know and not known.

                  And, tbh, a large proportion of the public isn't interested in listening. It's stuff that's not conceptually hard, but still requires some effort.

    2. Donn Bly
      Thumb Down

      @sisk re: Officials don't raise waning levels in response to public fear

      you said: "#1) Officials don't raise warning levels in response to public fear. Doing so would be counter productive. Nor do they do so because they're being 'badgered'."

      Uh, I hate to burst your bubble, but yes, they do. A "warning level" - is often a political device used by governments to get people to do things that they wouldn't normally do, or to fund things that they wouldn't normally fund.

      It goes along with the old adage about "How do you know a politician is lying? Because his lips are moving."

      If "conventional wisdom" says that there is a threat, government officials must react to the perceived threat whether it exists or not, otherwise they face being replaced in the next election.

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    fact deniers return

    The fukushima situation has been raised to a level 7 because the amount of radiation expected to be emitted has risen to a (predefined) level comparable to Chernobyl. Now Mr Page says that hey, thyroid cancer is practically always treatable, so there are still no health effects.

    So over here on one side we have the professionals who spend their life thinking about and dealing with nuclear incidents, and they say fukushima is the most serious kind of incident for which they have a measurement scale. On the other side we have the fact deniers led by Mr Page, who has devoted his life to denying facts including global warming and now nuclear disaster.

    Who you gonna believe?

    It's that simple.

    1. Highlander

      INES level 7....

      Chernobyl released 1000's of times more radiation and radioactive material, much of it with extremely long half lives compared to Fukushima. If both are INES level 7, what does that say about the scale? Either it's not measuring the thing you think it is, or it's in desperate need of recalibration.

    2. Luther Blissett

      I'd be very very careful

      if you're thinking of having babies, as Lewis Page might come along and eat them.

    3. Steve Crook
      Coat

      Suggested reading...

      http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/everyone-finally-understands-big-nuclear-thing-201104123710/

  12. laird cummings
    Alert

    Meahwhile...

    The Japanese government should be having a major case of ass with the US Government - By advising and supporting different clearance zones than the Japanese government, my country has basically discredited the Japanese government in the eyes of its citizens. Fear mongers say "scary, scary," and the US says, in effect, "everything is worse than you were told by the Japanese!" Naturally, scared citizens immediately lose (more) faith in their government and distrust all it says.

    The Japanese government has plenty enough credibility issues of their own, without US making it worse - I'd seriously consider expelling a diplomat or two over this, were I Japan.

  13. Daniel Evans

    Never understood it.

    I don't get why the default response to any "it's not a big deal" article/interview/other, on El Reg or elsewhere, is some frothy response along the lines of "Yeah, well? Why don't you go do it/live there/try it?". I dunno about you, but I wouldn't be against going to live there/eat their food/etc - if it weren't for the fact the entire place had been smashed to little bits by an earthquake, of course, which probably means that accomodation and food are a bit difficult to come by.

    1. Highlander

      I don't understand it either.

      And, I would be happy to go to Fukushima prefecture and help with the recovery operations there - were that an option available to me.

  14. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    Badgers

    Is this a good time to mention...

    Once again, that the major cause of death and destruction of infrastructure, crops, etc was that old favourite dihydrogen monoxide? (http://www.dhmo.org/)

    More seriously - I do hope the greens will be happy when we have rolling blackouts the world over because some idiot made it impossible to use a vitally necessary and safe power generation method at a time when we really really need it.

    Of course, we'll never get a Tokomak or similar system, not for mechanical reasons, but because there's *atomic fusion* involved, and that's like, a bomb, kinda, innit? Will nobody think of the children? (and perhaps make it possible for them to enjoy a technological future?)

    Keep up the good work, Lewis.

    1. Andydaws

      I'll give the greens their anti-fusion lines already

      1 - the reactor structure will get activated because there's an intense neutron flux at the tokomak wall - and where's that waste going to go, eh?

      2 - it involves manufacturing deuterium, and or tritium which can be used in hydrogen bombs - so what about proliferation, eh?

      3 - it'll be very expensive, so therefore it competes for funds against renewables - so what about the windfarms, eh?

  15. Pat Volk
    Megaphone

    FUD and the antithesis

    My take on increasing the Fukushima disaster to level 7 isn't on the amount of radiation put out exactly. I think their reasoning for going to declaring it level 7 is partly because they are taking responsibility in the face of the rest of the world (face being a key word), and also that they feel they do not have a firm control of the situation yet.

    There has been some impacts. That said, I appreciate Mr. Page's take on the media frenzy (uSv isn't media-sexy, but stating that it's x times the normal exposure is. Becquerels, especially when couple with SI prefixes from Mega to Exa make people wonder where all the fallout shelters went). I loved when CNN had an expert and a journo and the journo said how alpha rays penetrate, and the expert said nothing. My wife got an earful.

    There are some serious hot zones at the plant. They don't have the dosimeters for individuals. Even around Chernobyl today, people can go around, and find some lichens which will excite the geiger counters. It will have some consequences, for some time. It will probably be a decade before they can get close enough to the reactors to get the fuel out (Not done at Chernobyl, took a decade at TMI).

  16. MARK SAMSON
    Coat

    Health Risks from exposure to low levels of Ionizing Radiation

    National Academy of Sciences BEIR VII report:

    http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11340#orgs

    "A comprehensive review of available biological and biophysical data supports a "linear-no-threshold" (LNT) risk model—that the risk of cancer proceeds in a linear fashion at lower doses without a threshold and that the smallest dose has the potential to cause a small increase in risk to humans."

    Free summary here:

    http://www.nap.edu/nap-cgi/report.cgi?record_id=11340&type=pdfxsum

    "On average assuming a sex and age distribution similar to that of the entire U.S. population, the BEIR VII lifetime risk model predicts that approximately 1 person in 100 would be expected to develop cancer (solid cancer or leukemia) from a dose of 0.1 Sv above background, while approximately 42 of the 100 individuals would be expected to develop solid cancer or leukemia from other causes. Lower doses would produce proportionally lower risks. For example, the committee predicts that approximately one individual per thousand would develop cancer from an exposure to 0.01 Sv. As another example, approximately one individual per hundred would be expected to develop cancer from a lifetime (70-year) exposure to low-LET, natural background radiation (excluding radon and other high-LET radiation). Because of limitations in the data used to develop risk models, risk estimates are uncertain, and estimates that are a factor of two or three larger or smaller cannot be excluded."

    1. Liam Johnson

      Risks

      Just as a bit of food for thought...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis

      As you will see, there is some debate over whether the LNT model is correct for low doses.

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