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back to article Conviction overturned for abuse images bought from bookshop

A London judge has dismissed child pornography charges brought against a man who was prosecuted for possessing books bought from a bookshop. The judge said if the Crown Prosecution Service really believed these books contained "Level One" images of child sexual abuse then it should take action against publishers or retailers …

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  1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    FAIL

    A note on the origins of the CPS

    *one* of the reasons the CPS was set up in the UK was that a study was done that showed the police (who used to prosecute criminal cases in the UK *directly*) were bringing too many cases that were either being thrown out or being found not guilty.

    It was not *cost* efficient and hence the CPS was formed to *improve* the chances of success and not bring stupid expensive, cat-in-hell's-chance of winning cases to court.

    Note from the CPS POV this is a *good* case. CP is *highly* emotive and it's an *appeal*.They'd already won (so WTF aren't they going after the publisher and the author?)

    Note also that they *still* wanted to bring another re-trial. This has only been allowed in the UK since the almighty f***up that was the grossly botched Stephen Lawrence prosecution resulting in the passing of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 scrapping double jeopardy, due to that winning mixture of at least one cop being paid by one of the killers fathers and the "Institutionally racist" Metropolitan Police.

    Thank you Tony Blair for that one.

    Fail because this should *never* have gotten through being a book readily available in a mainstream *chain* of bookshops.

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  2. JaitcH
    Unhappy

    Plod and CPS deciding what is acceptable, again

    Once again England's standards are being set, at least they are attempting to, by the least qualified people able to do so.

    Plod is supposed to be impartial but in fact they use words to twist the reality of what they found. No doubt they still think Lady Chatterly's Lover is too extreme.

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  3. Old Tom

    Prosecute The British Library!

    I bet they've got copies of these books.

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  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not on the level

    Either Level 1 images are indecent, or they shouldn't be on the Copine Scale in the first place. We often hear of people being convicted of have hundreds of level one images, when they have NOTHING to do with indecency.

    The Government and the law should be ashamed of trying to stitch-up people like this.

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  5. Blubster

    Makes you wonder

    How you would go on if you still owned Sam Fox calendars from the eighties when she was a popular sixteen year-old model featured regularly in the Sun and elsewhere.

    Considering that any nudity depicted by under eighteens is damned near a hanging offence under today's draconian laws, you could be branded as a pedo and put on the sex offenders register. Or have I got that part wrong?

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Black Helicopters

      Nope, you're right

      NuLab created lots of ways for people to get a criminal record, without realising it.

      It would be pound to a penny, that the chances of a thorough search of a random chosen dwelling turning up something illegal are greater than evens.

      I myself, have a copy of "The Anarchists Cookbook", from the late 80s. I bought it in the Virgin Megastore, TCR. But you can bet if I ever looked at a copper in a funny way, and got myself arrested so they get instant search powers, that I could face that charge of "possessing material likely to aid a terrorist".

      Remember, NuLab made a lot of these offences strict liabilty. So as long as the prosecution demonstrate the facts of the case, there is no defence.

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      1. Intractable Potsherd
        Reply Icon

        Almost right, AC, except ...

        ... I don't believe that they didn't realise the wider implications. They might not have been the main reason for the foul drafting of the laws (which have more to do with having legislation guided by "victims" - something New Labour specialised in, with the assumption that everyone is a victim of white British men, who in turn aren't victims often enough), but they damn well did see the potential for social control that they offered.

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        1. Ted Treen
          Reply Icon
          Big Brother

          Dead right, IP.

          Let's not forget, that most of the stalwarts of NuLab were lawyers and/or barristers.

          Admittedly, not very good ones, but to suggest they were totally unaware of the wider implications of their draconian legislation is to stretch credulity beyond breaking point.

          And they STILL have a degree of support in the polls, the Grauniad & the Beeb.

          Maybe you CAN fool some of the people ALL of the time.

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  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Baby pictures of myself

    My parents, both deceased , took pictures of their first born, they waited many years for me.

    I inherited these pictures in the family photo album. They were taken in 1934!!.

    Now how does the collective wisdom of this readership view this senario?

    Is it CP to have pictures of oneself?

    Or is it only CP if its of other children?

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  7. stu 4
    WTF?

    CPS punished ?

    I'd like to see the CPS get the same treatment as, say women who invent rape cases -

    they should be prosecuted for ruining the guys life.

    Once a few CPS arseholes have been banged up for a few years, the pencil pushing pricks might thing a bit before bringing fuckwitted charges against people.

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  8. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Pears Soap and 2012 Olypmics

    Since the pictures do not even have to be photos, merely representations of children; is my sister in trouble,?

    (Man arrested for cartoon child porn last year)

    She has a sent of Pears Soap Posters, you remember? the 1930's ones with the sketches of naked children on??

    Also, as I cannot get it out of my head since someone pointed it out to me; the 2012 logo looks like Lisa Simpson giving oral sex, should the Olympic Committee, BT and every other organisation displaying the image be arrested??

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    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      AC@01:08

      "She has a sent of Pears Soap Posters, you remember? the 1930's ones with the sketches of naked children on??"

      Oh that'll be "drawn" p()rn.

      That's *also* illegal.

      After all, who *knows* what real life model might have been used for it?

      Guess she'd better turn herself in.

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  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm shocked

    I find the idea that one could be prosecuted for buying a widely available book quite absurd. The judge was spot on. If these books contain illegal material, go after the publisher.

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  10. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    Great!

    Makes me wonder how that stupid ban on drawn pornography fairs now...

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  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Baby pictures of myself

    I read a news article a few years ago about some girl in the U.S. who took photos of herself naked (she was 15)

    She was charged with making and distributing child pornography as well as abuse of minors (even though the latter clearly has nothing to do with anything)

    So, in answer to your question, yes.

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  12. TRT Silver badge

    There is guidance...

    http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/indecent_photographs_of_children/

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  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmm...

    I wonder if the CPS have ever heard of the Steisand effect...

    This reminds me of the Virgin Killer thing a few years ago.

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  14. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    So...

    Does this mean I can now possess a picture of myself sitting naked in the bath at age 2 without being guilty of self abuse?

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  15. Johan Bastiaansen
    FAIL

    Why was nobody jailed ???

    Surely, this is illegal. The prosecutors should have been sent to jail.

    You would be surprised how fast common sense will rise amongst these bureaucrats. And if it doesn’t, all of them can be put behind bars.

    A missed opportunity.

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  16. Jason 24
    Dead Vulture

    I'm very worried

    Recently, say 6 weeks ago?, my house was raided, under allegations of child porn being in the house. We weren't arrested, no charges have been made, we weren't even taken to the cop shop, yet they've confiscated all of my PCs/laptops/HDDs. One of the comments from the police offers who came round and gutted my house was "have you fallen out with anyone recently?" WTF is that supposed to mean? That someone has just said "such and such has child porn"? Don't you need some hard fucking evidence before you can start tearing peoples lives apart?!?!

    Having spoken to a solicitor we're looking at at least 9 months or so before we look at getting the kit back. I'm a network administrator who is currently unable to administer his network remotely as I don't have a PC. I'm massively worried that somewhere in my browser cache is a picture from an advert on the side of a site which shows a girl who may or may not be under 18, and may or may not be in posing in a manner which is supposed to turn people on. Where the fuck does that put me?

    The Police are majorly taking the piss with this shit nowadays, and seemingly I have absolutely recourse against them.

    Does anyone here have any advice as to what I can do to speed the process up? Kit goes out of date in 9 months, less than that, so I need to look at buying a new PC much sooner than I originally planned.

    RIP as I may well be locked up and unable to visit el reg again soon

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      9 months?

      Geez... I can't stand the thought of being away from my computer for nine minutes, but nine months...

      Think if you spoke to the European Court (of human rights), it'd get the process sped up?

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  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Precedent set

    Important to note that this ruling was made by a Judge in the Appeal Court which sets a precedent that Judges in future cases will (or possibly are obliged to) follow. So does this now mean that CPS will now have to pursue the retailer/producer of "indecent" images rather than the possessor? I.e. is "I bought it from ...... and you don't seem to have taken any action against them" now a valid defence?

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  18. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Time for a total redrafting of the law

    The police, cps and any number of 'concerned' pressure groups keep insisting on calling child porn 'child abuse images' and push the fact that 'every image is a crime scene' when level 1 (and sometimes level 2) images often contain no abuse whatsoever (assuming they weren't taken under duress).

    However, much better press to say that someone had '10,000' images and look tough on the paedos, without actually having to do any work on reducing real child abuse - you know, the type that happens largely within that great family unit the Tories are always banging on about - or certain religious organisations.

    It will be interesting to see the knock on affects of this decision, as previous case law has largely discounted the ability of the defence to call evidence relating to 'standards of propriety'.

    However, I wouldn't mind betting that even now police all round the country will still be pressuring people who don't have proper legal advice to accept a caution, and 5 years on the register, for the same images and same book.

    @Jason 24 - you need to get some good legal advice, not just the local solicitor who will go with the flow. Get someone who will pressure the police, and threaten action unless they respond, and you MIGHT stand a chance.

    If not, then damn well make sure you put in a big claim when its all over for loss of business, etc - sometimes the budget is the only thing that will make senior management take an interest.

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