Apple refuses frozen iPhone repair
Apple has refused to repair an iPhone 4 on the grounds that it was used in an ambient temperature below zero, in breach of the specifications. Norwegian rag Bergens Tidende reports it was -12 outside as Lenin Kristin Løvvik connected her iPhone to the car stereo for the provision of musical accompaniment on the way in to work. …
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Works the other way too.
A few years back I got into my car in 40+ degree heat. I started the car and the climate control went into "arctic gale with knobs on" mode.
I turned on my HP SmartPhone and the LCD panel expired on the spot as the freezing draught played over it.
On the bright side a fleaBay vendor in HK sent me a new screen assembly for ten quid. It didn't serve to stop me feeling like a complete, prize pillock for being so damned stupid in the first place though......
Lipo instability
The restrictions are there for a good reason.
Charging Li-Ion and Li-Po cells at or below 0 celsius can cause plating out of lithium metal in an unpredictable way which can cause the cell to become dangerously unstable.
Interestingly, LiFePO4 (the genuine A123 cells not the D**lx*reme garbage) can tolerate charging down to -10 or so and normally don't suffer any damage.
the chemistry is also far more tolerant of overheating and even a worst case punctured cell will not cause a flame-out event.
AC, because for some reason future employers might check El Reg...
Car Temperature
Its not uncommon for those is cooler climates to plug their car's in to over night heaters to keep them warm for the morning....
Not quite...
The block heaters to which you refer keeps the oil's viscosity from dropping too far for the starter motor to turn the crankshaft. It has nothing whatsoever to do with either the internal temperature of the vehicle or of the under-hood electronics.
Now, we'll often go out and start our cars (or use the remote start, which we had decades before they became fashionable in warmer climes) so the coolant-and therefore cabin heating-can warm up, but that's a different concern.
Re: Not quite...
We often have heaters inside the car connected to the same power source as the block heater, so the car will be warm and ice free in the morning when we go off to work.
Apples don't like to get wet
My iPod mini has never worked properly in even slightly damp environments.
An my iPod Shuffle crapped out completely, and never recovered, the first time it got wet. Not submerged in water, just lying in my pocket during a mild shower.
Perhaps I've just been unlucky, but my two latest Nokias (6131 and 5230), cheap looking plastic things they are, have routinely gotten drenched and have never stopped working.
Rain coat, please.
Concept of condensation is....
Condensation forms on things colder than the environment. You take the iphone from ur house and it's warmer than the car in winter, so why would frozen air condense on it?. And who would leave their iphone in the car?
Mine and Mine
Apple operates only in two worlds.....Theirs and Theirs.
... revenge is a dish best served cold...
And its very cold in Jobs!
or
Fashion led gullibility - £750
Getting shafted on the warranty - Priceless...
or
“With the new eyePhone, you can watch, listen, ignore your friends, stalk your ex, download porno on a crowded bus, even check your email while getting hit by a train. All with the new eyePhone. From Mom...”
Should I go on?
Makes you wonder....
It does make you wonder -
Someone suggested 0-35 is the normal operating range of solid state electronics.......
Does this mean we should not attempt to use our car radio when the ambient temperature drops below freezing?
What about the car clock which switches on automatically anyway?
The exterior temperature display?
Are these not all solid state electronics that we quite rightly expect will continue to work just fine after the car has been subjected to stupidly low temperatures?
I know in our case a 2 litre bottle of water and 2 bottles of fanta have regularly froze solid in our car since November......
but the computer that runs the car, the clock, the radio, the entire digital dashboard, the window switches, the immobiliser, the GPS tracking unit under the bonnet and all the relays that control switching the interior lighting on and off when doors open and close has continue to operate as expected even down to -15.4'C
We do not expect ANY PART of our car to go wrong because it got a bit too cold for it - as has been pointed out above - surely it is not a unreasonable expectation that our phones should continue to operate in an outdoor environment with both the temperature and humidity ranges that any outdoor environment can bring?
I feel it must also be pointed out that any electronic device that is powered on is generating it's own source of heat particularly so if that electronic device is transmitting radio waves!
We have an outdoor Panasonic network camera that is part of the BordersWeather website which has been outside since 2006, I have not checked the manual to see what the specifications are for it's operating variables - but I rightly assumed that as an outdoor camera being sold in the UK it should both work under normal conditions and have a tolerance for the slightly more extreme weather conditions it may have to deal with - the camera is still continuing to operate and the motor that enables the pan and tilt is still working - and worked perfectly even when it was -15.4'C outside.
In YOUR world, devices have limits and users can't be clueless
Every device any more is designed to work within a prescribed environment.
Fr'instance the Nokia N8, surely intended to be used in the cold. Its User Manual directs, “always keep the battery between 15°C and 25°C.” Use the phone much without a battery? Obviously, this is a much tighter restriction than Apple applied. Some devices will be more tolerant, others less.
BUT ALL REAL-WORLD DEVICES HAVE LIMITS! Even if they're buried in the fine print. (Apple's are right on the specs page.)
Nokia's user information unhelpfully applies other warnings. “Do not use or store the device in dusty or dirty areas…Do not store the device in high temperatures. …Do not store the device in cold temperatures.” How dirty is bad? Obviously, “too” dirty.
My point is not to bash Nokia, nor specifically exonerate Apple. I point out that we live in a real world, where compromises must be made. Users who want to work in extreme environments must expect to pay extra for the more stringent engineering costs. Maybe, these are easy and a simple 5% cost premium results. But for some items, say, batteries, no amount of clever engineering will ensure they'll work after being left outdoors for a week in Antarctica.
And that means, the user will have to RTFM!
.Outdoor camera
I'm willing to bet that your camera is in a weatherproof casing, and being on all the time, is able to keep the ambient temp in that shell to substantially above -15C.....
From the Nokia Support Site
What is the operating temperature range of my Nokia device?
Nokia devices are designed to meet all the relevant quality and other standards, and the standard GSM specification requirements for your device's operating temperature are -10 to +55 degrees Celcius.
The device is not water-resistant and must be kept dry.
There is no such thing as "centigrade"...
...even if US pilots are using it all the time. It's degrees Celsius and nothing else.
If you want to improve your education system, start doing it now.
GET IT RIGHT!!!
It's “U. S.” and not “US.”
Oh, it's OK to use either the earlier or a newer form? Take a look at a dictionary and see that “centigrade” was the universally-accepted form before honoring Celsius in 1948, and the likelihood of any listener being confused hearing “centigrade” approaches zero.
I might even wager that more people around the world recognize the association for “Fahrenheit” than “Celsius,” since most people only hear “degrees” unless we Americans have to be specific.
Re: GET IT RIGHT!!!
We use 'US' as it looks neater.
Stop SHOUTING. Let it GO.
Do your research, dork!
According to Wikipedia, there IS/was such a thing as Centigrade, see the following article (section Centigrade and Celsius), and footnotes 7 & 8:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centigrade
If you're gonna diss an educational system, do your "due diligence" first, jackass...
Celsius
IIRC Celsius invented a scale that had ice melting at 100 degrees and water boiling at zero degrees. Centigrade was a scale that reversed that so that higher numbers meant warmer termperatures. Centigrade and Celsius are now interchangeable in common use.
There is only one sensible measure of temperature which is degrees Kelvin. Using a scale based on the properties of pure water is only really of any specific use when you are dealing with water.
HTC Desire
It was -25c out last night, and I was yakking away on my HTC Desire whilst I remoted into my home VM to get some info. (An activity that curiously noms more CPU and battery than Angry Birds.) Worked just fine. Not a single problem. Fiancee's Desire was giving her no problems the other day in -35c.
Cheap construction, Apple. Cheap construction.
not frozen but exploding glass on backside
I went to the original TV2 article (Norwegian) that Bergens Tidene used and there it was mentioned that the iPhone "exploded". Well, it didn't actually explode, the glass backside cracked with a "bang" sound. The user said "Jeg stod i et lyskryss, så smalt det. Jeg var på vei til å kjøre inn til siden for å sjekke om det var noe i bilen som eksploderte. Jeg hørte ikke noe mer, så kjørte videre. " which is roughly "I stood still at some traffic light and I heard a loud 'bang'. I was about to pull over to check whether it was something in my car that exploded but didn't hear anything more so drove on". Can't have been such a loud bang then.
There is a nice picture of the resulting damage here:
http://www.tv2underholdning.no/hjelperdeg/iphone-4-eksploderte-i-bilen-taaler-ikke-minusgrader-3379889.html
Now, this cracking glass is something different then the device just freezing. I am pretty sure that EU consumer protection directives (yes, they *are* implemented in Norway) not to mention Norwegian ones will say something about devices not just splintering into pieces when temperatures fluctuate a bit. My car windows certainly don't.
With regards to cars being cold or warm when you enter them, there are various ways to achieve your car being nice and warm when you enter it, even when it is -20 outside. The articles do not have enough information to see how cold or warm the car was when the user actually entered it.
Cars in the cold
The American auto companies routinely send their pre-production vehicles to places like Northern Michigan, Bemidji, Minnesota, Fargo North Dakota etc. for cold-weather performance testing. Damn things better be reliable at -30C or more or some engineers get their heads handed to them on a platter.
They also test their cars in Arizona during the summer, sometimes with airflow to the radiator blocked. Run a test cycle, sit in the shade, lather, rinse, repeat for a week.
It's -4C here in Detroit right now, for crying out loud.
Yeah, it's all Apple's fault
Oh wait, my iPhone worked fine in December while switching between warm restaurants and the car with internal temps of -7 deg C - maybe they do work below zero after all.
Yes, I do know that -20 is lower than -7, before some tiresome little twat points it out for me.
Yeah
-7 < -20
Just thought I'd point that out for you. Bravo old chap.
BRAVO for El Reg
It takes a certain genius to pretend to be a tech-oriented web site, and report stories the way you'd expect in a cheap tabloid for near-illiterates.
Here, the Register has cleverly refused to discuss the actual problem in technical terms. Was the battery dead? Motherboard capacitors blown? Circuit traces cracked from parts' warming and expanding other, still-ultra-cold parts?
Naw, actually "reporting" such technical facts might stifle the creativity of those who know it's because Apple HATES satisfied customers, or who otherwise want to promote nonsense.
In particular, while condensation MIGHT indeed have been the problem, that would NOT prevent Apple from honoring a warranty. Condensation is actually MORE likely if you were to take the phone out of a very cold storage and operate it in a warm, slightly humid area. That obviously does not violate the prohibition against USING it in too-cold temps, but such logic is eschewed in the interest of a "lively" (i.e., totally information-free) discussion.
How serendipitous that acting like a dolt draws trash!
(Hands Walt a cloth)
Hey "Disney" .. you got a bit of froth coming out your mouth there...
Cold climates
If Apple isn't going to warranty their products where it gets cold, then they should quit selling them there.
If the ram memory timings are mismatched with the CPU
If the ram memory timings are mismatched with the CPU cold temps can cause memory read write problems and cause a crash.
More testing in industrial ovens Apple!
Also some screen tech gets slow at cold temperatures.
Apples don’t taste so good now?
Android advert
Lost my HTC desire in a snow drift for 5 hours with air at -14c. Phoned my number, saw green glow in the snow, dug it out - all working fine (except the app store which was still crap...)
Then -- Apple should not sell what it cannot support!
in a simple view - then Apple Inc. should not sell products in areas where the specs can be compromised w/o any action on the user part! Or make a better product which will holdup!
My phone is just a phone, but it still works.
My old Samsung D900 dropped from my pocket when I fell in the snow 2 weeks ago. It was snowing a lot and it spent the whole night in the snow on the pavement at about 4 below zero, battery almost dead. Still twelve hours later, when the snow melted, it was still on. Someone found it and rang the last dialed number. I got her a bottle of wine. Happy new year.
It takes a 100 comments before...
somebody notes that it was only the back panel that shattered. Did it even stop working? Apple would have to honour any broken glass scenario if it let this one pass. Have there been any more instances of the glass 'spontaneously' shattering?
Kudos to El Reg for milking this
I thought there was something suspicious about this story. In 4 years I'm sure we would have heard more about any failure iphone's cold weather performance.
it was still usable
Ah, my apologies. The source article actually mentioned that "Leni" (iPhone user) said she could use it but that because of that use the cracking had increased. It actually took *me* quite a while to read through all the comments to make sure no-one had already stated the obvious ;)
muppet
-12? try -20, Northern Ireland IS still part of the UK you know, much as you mainland crowd try and ignore us when your not overcharging us for stuff
From the Nokia Support Site
What is the operating temperature range of my Nokia device?
Nokia devices are designed to meet all the relevant quality and other standards, and the standard GSM specification requirements for your device's operating temperature are -10 to +55 degrees Celcius.
The device is not water-resistant and must be kept dry.
-unquote-
Who goes gloveless at 0C, much less -10? Wouldn't that make the iPhone a useless brick anyway?
Re: From the Nokia Support Site
"Who goes gloveless at 0C, much less -10?"
Most people I know? -10 really isn't that cold up here :)
The official norwegian temperature scale:
+15°C This is as warm as it gets in Norway, so we'll start here. People in Spain wear winter-coats and gloves. The Norwegians are out in the sun, getting a tan.
+10°C The French are trying in vain to start their central heating. The Norwegians plant flowers in their gardens.
+5°C Italian cars won't start. The Norwegians are cruising in cabriolets.
0°C Distilled water freezes. The water in the Oslo Fjord gets a little thicker.
-5°C People in California almost freeze to death. The Norwegians have their final barbecue before winter.
-10°C The Brits start the heat in their houses. The Norwegians start using long sleeves.
-20°C The Aussies flee from Mallorca. The Norwegians end their Midsummer celebrations. Autumn is here.
-30°C People in Greece die from the cold and disappear from the face of the earth.
The Norwegians start drying their laundry indoors.
-40°C Paris start cracking in the cold. The Norwegians stand in line at the hotdog stands.
-50°C Polar bears start evacuating the North Pole. The Norwegian army postpones their winter survival training awaiting real winter weather.
-70°C The false Santa moves south. The Norwegian army goes out on winter survival training.
-183°C Microbes in food don't survive. The Norwegian cows complain that the farmers' hands are cold.
-273°C ALL atom-based movement halts. The Norwegians start saying "Faen, det er kaldt i dag! (Damn, it's cold outside today!)"
-300°C Hell freezes over, Norway wins the Eurovision Song Contest.
How does Apple get away with treating its customers
with such incredible arrogance - must one have documented masochistic tendencies to be eligible to purchase one of the firm's products ? A certificate in triplicate from one's psychiatrist ?...
Henri
Yawn.
Apple treating their customers like shit? Move along folks, nothing new to see here.
@Grease Monkey
"otherwise the courier will accept no responsibility for any damage"
Couriers will usually not accept responsibility for damage unless the damage is visible **before** unpacking. So there's no point in unpacking an item in the presence of the courier, unless it is clear from the *external* packaging that the item has been mishandled.
If the contents are broken but the external packaging is intact, that's a packaging fault and packaging is the responsibility of the sender, not the courier. Package testing (which I used to supervise, many years ago) typically requires the contents of the package to withstand being dropped from a height of 3 feet on all six faces and sometimes on all edges and corners too.
You should certainly ensure the recipient checks for visible external damage and logs it before signing, but there's no point insisting on unpacking an *undamaged* parcel.
You'd think..
But I've dealt wth several couriers who have tried to wriggle out of admitting responsibility for damaged goods because the goods had not been checked before signing. Including in one case a courier who wouldn't let the goods inward guy open the box until he'd signed for it. He signed then opened the box to find broken glass in a scanner. The courier tried to deny liability because the parcel had been signed for which meant (they claimed) that the goods had been accepted.
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