back to article Assange: Text messages show rape allegations were 'set up'

WikiLeaks boss Julian Assange said on Friday that text messages in the possession of the Swedish government prove that rape allegations against him are a set up. “There are intercepted SMS messages between the women and each other and their friends that I'm told represents a set up,” Assange, who spoke from Suffolk, UK, said on …

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      1. Scorchio!!

        Re: Certainly much BS all over.

        "Unhappy smiley - Does Sweden still have the highest male suicide rate in Europe?"

        Suicide rates are highest in the area of the arctic circle. It logically follows, given that the policing population is drawn from the indigent peoples, suicide rates amongst their police will be higher. There logically will be a force (and country) with a higher level of suicides than its contemporaries. This was first elucidated by people like Traskmann, Bendz, Asberg and others.

        Now, I've given you some information, why don't you pony up the data showing the Swedish police to have the highest suicide rate in Europe? After you have completed this minor task proceed to demonstrate the relevance of these data - if indeed they match your words - to the current situation. It shouldn't be too hard if you know that your claims are true.

        As to their definition of rape, it is not the only part of the case, which includes unprotected sex which, according to the publicly available material, was not acceptable to the individuals concerned. Furthermore, I note a hint of cultural relativism in your lines, inasmuch that you don't accept the Swedish definition preferring the tradition in which you were reared. You'll need to produce some form of objective data that is independent of culture in order to justify this. Why don't you, as a cap to your intellectual tour de force, produce a workable objective definition, and have it pass through whatever European legislative body?

        1. Greemble
          Heart

          Swedish police to have the highest suicide rate in Europe?

          The suicide rate was a question - you understand this concept? Ask and then someone else answers, yes? Or is it that as you seem to know all the answers this is not something you ever do?

          As for "pony up the data showing the Swedish police to have the highest suicide rate in Europe?" Aside from your references, who said any thing about the police? If you wish to know the relevance of this, maybe have a read of the URL in the post. Although the responses are not academically rigorous, some give an indication as to why I put forward the question.

          I'm also quite aware that It doesn't matter if I, personally, recognize the definition or not - that was in answer to those that don't seem to understand why Assange doesn't appear very keen on "just going to Sweden to clear things up". Yes, it has cultural relativism - it was intentional, to be in line with what MAY be going through the mind of others when they read about this case. Note: before accusations of mind-reading, I said may be.

          Besides, Assange might well be some kind of nut-job, I don't know that man so cannot say. However, given the way this case had been dropped, his application for residency refused and then the case to be re-opened, just as his site is under attack and the U.S. start making noises about spying charges - can you seriously blame him for feeling somewhat paranoid?

          As for passing through whatever European legislative bodies - Not being a citizen of the E.U., I very much doubt if they'd take much notice of any workable, objective definition I put forward. So sorry if I disappoint, but I'll decline your kind invitation.

          1. Scorchio!!

            Re: Swedish police to have the highest suicide rate in Europe?

            "The suicide rate was a question - you understand this concept? Ask and then someone else answers, yes? Or is it that as you seem to know all the answers this is not something you ever do?"

            Of what relevance was it?: "Unhappy smiley - Does Sweden still have the highest male suicide rate in Europe?" Can you use Google? Here: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=suicide+rate+arctic+circle

            FYI the reason why suicide rates increase the closer the proximity to the Arctic circle is substantially to do with the number of sunlit hours. It's not unicausal though (is anything?), because this can be potentiated or ameliorated by a number of factors, including childhood development and schedules of reinforcement therein, as well as current circumstances. National character, though fleeting, can exist.

            Anyhow, Assange is slowly and clearly being shown for what he is:

            http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/julian-assange-wild-child-of-free-speech/story-fn775xjq-1225969230839

            He's whining that this is black propaganda, but no less black than his. It's vital to know about the creature, now but a hair's breadth away from Plato's 'noble lie'. No need to pretend to read minds here, what counts is behavioural history. As far as his paranoia is concerned, it's been there for years, long before he achieved this level of publicity, and I've already posted about that, citing this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11893104 ' "You ask him a harmless question - and he looks at you as if to ask 'Why do you want to know?'" the journalist said. '. What comes around goes around, but perhaps he doesn't have the social and intellectual skills see the corollary, in spite of his unfinished education in philosophy and the sciences. It also has to be said that anyone who tries to offer a postbox address to a judge is in a ragged state. (Next he'll be asking if he can do the asked-for video link through a proxy.) Utterly clueless as well as paranoid?

            Offenders show traces of their future career in early developmental stages. Over time repeated observations and later epidemiological studies firm these things up. Notice Assange's early offences and his insightlessness when sentenced: " "Your honour, I feel a great misjustice has been done and I would like to record the fact that you have been misled by the prosecution," he declared." This man needs again to be in front of a judge.

            If you don't offer an objective, non culturally relative form of definition of rape your argument is not anchored. If you want to detract from the Swedish law you need more than spin and good intentions. However, if you view the case through eyes understanding the Scandinavian position on sexual health, which predates the HIV epidemic, you will see the reason for their current attitude. Take on board the recent German court case of a woman prosecuted for spreading HIV and perhaps you might understand the point. She didn't use a femidom, and that puts her in Assange's (alleged) league.

            If you can't see that a self appointed someone offering themselves as an international arbiter of philosophy and politics and of what is right and wrong has a) no mandate and is b) probably not of very sound mind (and in fact the more data that come into the public domain the more it seems that he is not very sound), c) and didn't learn a warning from history, then perhaps you are very forgiving, or something. There, I have been most charitable, haven't I?

            Whether or not I am as omnipotent as you think - and it is true that I float through firewalls and routers with the sort of ease that would make even Neo gasp with surprise and have a lot of 'letters' after my name - is not relevant, since I try to offer data. Now I have to telnet to the Wikileaks server so that I can find the original iron, where the records and passwords are kept. I'll be sure to let the Moderatrix know when I retrieve these data. ;->

            HTH. Do HAVND.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Alert

      "Your hero MAY be a rapist."

      Come back again when you actually know what a "rapist" is. Here's a hint: It's not the guy the woman as some doubts about the morning after.

      It would also be of interest to see how "prosecutor 1's" statement

      "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape."

      leads to the conclusion

      "the original case was dropped because it's almost impossible to successfully prosecute sex crimes"

      The more that I then don't see the point of re-opening the case in the first place.

      Where's the "NO U" icon?

      1. Windrose
        Flame

        Understanding rape

        "Come back again when you actually know what a "rapist" is. Here's a hint: It's not the guy the woman as some doubts about the morning after."

        BS. A rape - as defined in Sweden - is "non-consensual sex", which is what he is accused of. Doesn't matter what it is defined as in the UK. The number of women who go to the police after "regretting" what they consented to is bloody low, but it's a damned convenient way to ignore the problem.

        Try to understand that unless the US, the UK and Sweden all agree to break their own laws and those of the European Union, it's not an easy matter to have him extradited anywhere - in which case he'll simply have to answer the accusations against him in Sweden.

        Which, presumably, we all agree he has the right to do?

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          RE: Understanding rape

          ".....Doesn't matter what it is defined as in the UK...." Windrose is exactly correct. What is fine and acceptable or simply not criminal in one country can be a hanging concern in others. Just ask homosexuals in Iran. Or, for an even funnier example, what would you say if you caught your neighbour sh*gging a goat? Would you call the RSPCA or the Police first? Well, in the Sudan you'd only call the Police if the goat didn't belong to your neighbour, otherwise he can do what he likes to it.

          In Sweden, it looks like Assange has a case to hear, whether certain posters here think it is a crime or not, and I suspect it is only the rose-tinted glasses of their political faith keeping them from accepting it. By all accounts, it looks like the Swedish Government actually wanted Assange to just go away as they didn't want to get stuck in the middle of an extradition battle with the US.

    2. Vic

      Really?

      > He was never "cleared of guilt" by any prosecutor.

      According to the BBC[1], the Chief Prosecutor, Eva Finne said: "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape."

      That sounds decidedly like being "cleared of guilt"...

      Of course, the BBC might just be lying. But I generally give them a little more credence that some random bloke on an Internet forum.

      Vic.

      [1] at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316

    3. mhenriday
      Boffin

      The devil, «Windrose», is in the details -

      here in Sweden as in the UK (or the United States, for that matter). The charges against Mr Assange were dismissed due to lack of evidence by chief prosecutor Eva Finne of the Stockholm's prosecutor's office. After a complaint by Claes Gustaf Borgström, whose career as a politician may be irrelevant, but whose view that all men share a collective guilt for violence against women perhaps is not, the case was transferred from the jurisdiction of the prosecutor's office in Stockholm, where the alleged offenses had occured, to the corresponding office in Göteborg, and placed in the hands of a prosecutor, Marianne Ny, who, perhaps not quite coincidentally, is responsible for the «development of methods for the investigation of, among other things, sex crimes and crimes of violence» (metodutveckling av utredningar inom bland annat vålds- och sexual­brott). Your version of the «condom incidents» - they seem to be plural - also seems to misstate vital elements - at least if the Guardian's version (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden?INTCMP=SRCH) is to be believed. As you seem to want us to conclude that you, in contrast to one of your interlocutors, do read Swedish, perhaps you can provide those of us who share this accomplishment with a link to a copy of the leaked police report ? Until then, you might want to, if not «think before commenting» - I certainly don't wish to ask more of you than you are capable - but at least investigate before posting....

      Henri

  1. dogged

    "Your hero MAY be a rapist"

    Swedish law on this is pretty weird though. In theory, if I have sex with somebody in Sweden and she later claims that I had agreed to turn the light off but I didn't, it's rape.

    "Swedish Rape" may join "Walking On The Cracks In The Pavement" as a hot case for the Trivial Crimes Squad.

    1. Windrose
      Stop

      Read the law much?

      Did you ever READ the law in question?

      IF you want to have sex with someone, AND they agree but ONLY on condition of X, and you don't fulfill X but go ahead anyway, then, yes, it IS non-consensual sex. Aka rape.

      There. Not that difficult if you put in the right words. Weird law? Not at all. Humane, perhaps, but hardly weird.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Whether you like the law is irrelevant

      If country "X" has a law that says hamster-fondling merits the death penalty, it doesn't matter if you disagree or think it's a stupid law: get caught fondling a hamster & you're for the long drop. The obvious solution is to avoid that country or, if you have to go, don't indulge your hamster fantasies.

      It's not for we non-Swedes to decide whether what Swedish law considers as rape is valid or not. If refusing to use a condom when asked is a crime, then that's their choice. Don't like it? Well, don't fuck anyone in Sweden

      If Assange didn't have the nous, or the self-control, to keep his prick in his pants, that's his problem. Let him answer to it. His celebrity status doesn't exempt him from the law.

      1. Scorchio!!

        Re: Whether you like the law is irrelevant

        That is also a good answer, and his attempts to do the initial hearings over a video link from the UK will not wash. He must attend the jurisdiction. As to those trying to minimise the alleged offence - and there are some - that is a) not good b) not insightful. If someone wants full protection then that is the name of the game, otherwise in Sweden that is rape. If readers and posters in this thread go and have a look at the original charges online they will see how it is important to stick to the facts, including how the women involved came to feel the matter ought to be further progressed.

        The mother of Assange's son has done a great deal to hide herself from both him and the public eye. This rang a few alarm bells in my mind, when I remembered that Assange's mother went to great lengths to avoid his father, who it seems was stalking him. Additionally, anyone reading the curious lifestyle he lead, including being educated at her hands, might be in a good position to make up their minds about the man, how it is that he feels he is the arbiter of what is right and wrong, possibly even how it is (if my reading is correct) he managed to fail university exams and seems to have dropped out. It also needs to be remembered that he was convicted for these sorts of offences some years back. What an interesting profile Julian Assange has behind him.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        Political theathre, laws totally irrelevant

        "It's not for we non-Swedes to decide whether what Swedish law considers as rape is valid or not. "

        Half-truth: Having sex is not a rape even by Swedish laws and they know it very well: Still _no formal accusations_, just press releases and _no proof_ of "raping" actually happening.

        Any questions?

        "If refusing to use a condom when asked is a crime, then that's their choice."

        Missing the point totally: Sex tansmutated into "rape" 2 _months_ afterwards, when it was politically suitable to invent such accusations. Not proven and no evidence has been shown.

        Not using condom isn't very uncommon and it's definitely not a crime, even by Swedish laws: You can always say no. If you don't ... .well ... it's _your_ decision.

        I.e. bullshit: With similar accusations you could jail 50% of Swedish men.

        So the real point here is that your name is Assagne and you are the leader of Wikileaks, not the charges themselves. Excactly same political accusations that made Soviet Union so unfamous.

        Or McCarthy: Obviously nothing has gotten better from those days: When politics enter the picture, laws are thrown out.

  2. Lars Silver badge
    Happy

    We do need Wikileaks

    The possibilities and the rights for journalists and "news papers" to publish annoying stuff has become smaller,

    Much because news papers have become more centrally owned.

    But Assange has, perhaps, not understood fully that taking such a role means he should live like Gandhi and not fuck, with or without condoms; with Swedish hores.

    And that has nothing to do with the need for a Wikileaks.

    And then we have the poor state of the US who has to do something, of course.

    Trying to stop leaks is too silent a task and hopeless too.

    Attacking the mail man is much better, it will remove the interest from the mail to the mail man.

    On the other hand, I am sure there are a lot of diplomats and the like who are very happy about

    these leaks.

    Take for instance a US diplomat who has to deal with Berlusconi.

    Now he can happily be polite knowing Berlusconi knows he is considered a prick.

    1. Ian Michael Gumby

      @Lars...

      In the US, he's innocent until proven guilty. Well he is. Manning isn't. He's being held under Military law which means he's in the brig which isn't very pleasant.

      We don't know what information the US Government has, and what has been presented to the GJ (Grand Jury). What we do know is that Manning's defense team claims Wikileaks raised money, but has failed to deliver on their promises. Essentially leaving Manning hanging out to dry.

      How guilty is Assnage? We'll know when he faces trial.

      Assnage is no hero.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Unhappy

        @Ian Michael Gumby

        Mr Gumby, I have an off-topic question for you.

        Don't you think it very childish to always, on purpose I assume, misspell Mr Assange's name? Personally I find it further debases your arguments to be so disrespectful.

        1. Ian Michael Gumby

          @AC re misspelling.

          Actually I did this the first time because I'm sometimes dyslexic and spell checking doesn't work on a name.

          And after I did it, I did like the fact that his name Ass-n-age is easier to remember than Ass-ange or Ass-angie. (Ass and the name Angie which I don't believe is the correct phonetics on remembering his name.)

          But I kept doing this ... Assnage because ... well... it pisses off those knee jerking, liberal non-thinking pin heads who buy in to Assnage's BS hook line and sinker.

          Lets get real. All governments are corrupt because there is no such thing as an honest man in politics. We live in an age where career politicians put their personal agendas in front of what they know is right and better for their country in the long run. No man is beyond being corrupted by the allure of power. (Women for that matter too)

          Do you really think that I care that Qaddafi travels with a Ukrainian 'nurse' that could probably pose on Page 3 of the Sun? (Not in the least.) But that doesn't change the facts of what he (Assnage) did, what Manning did, or that the majority of people don't understand what really happens in terms of foreign policy and politics.

    2. Scorchio!!

      Re: We do need Wikileaks

      Aside from the substantially ad hominem nature of your remarks, and the failure in general to produce proofs that demonstrate the veridicality of your claims, if your claim that we do need Wikileaks is to be accepted by anyone then you must prove that this is so, particularly by means of a priori reasoning, not some sloppy ill thought out cauldron of ad hominem bilge that takes no account of the opposite arguments. As I type these remarks I remind myself that the PRC informant is at particular risk from these disclosures, and probably the Saudi one too.

      Finally, whether or not other politicians will be 'happy' or not about the Berlusconi disclosures is irrelevant. The 'happiness theory of epistemology' don't hunt. Truths are not any more valuable on the basis of how euthymic they make political actors feel, or a certain man of steel would have indeed been the possessor of much truth, ditto Tony Blair, and so on it goes. Besides, I thought Julian Assange's intention was to make the world's population happy, not their politicians.

  3. pompurin

    Can you be extradited for a crime that is not considered a crime in the other country?

    The charges he is being accused of would be thrown out under the UK 'Justice' System (I use quotes because of the Aso Mohammed Ibrahim verdict yesterday).

    Aren't there other cases of this throughout Europe, such as Denying the Holocaust (a crime in Germany and Austria), Abortion (varying degrees throughout Europe) and drugs (some steroids differ in legality, and the Netherlands are a special case).

    From what I've read Wikileaks have a lot more ammunition at ready, including incriminating data of a bank and other data Assange himself describes as 'Thermonuclear'. Interesting times.

    1. Windrose
      Unhappy

      Yes and no.

      Complicated. "Rape" is against the law in the UK as well as in Sweden; it's the definition which differ. So yes. He can be extradited from the UK to Sweden based on the accusation of rape, which makes sense.

      If they think there is a chance he might have done it, then they'll extradite. If they think there's a political component, then the UK Court is obliged to NOT extradite. There's nothing particular about this case save the venom spewed by Assange fanbois all over.

      Perhaps there is a political aspect. Perhaps the US HAS been stupid enough to lean on Sweden. Once here, he'll be harder to get over there than ever before, so it's a tactical boo-boo.

      (The act of publishing that he is accused of in the US might not even BE a crime in Sweden, which would prevent Sweden from *legally* extraditing him there. And they can't do so without the UK's consent anyway. Let's avoid the discussion of what the US could do ILLegally.)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No case, really

      "The charges he is being accused of would be thrown out under the UK 'Justice' System (I use quotes because of the Aso Mohammed Ibrahim verdict yesterday)."

      This case, applied to any ordinary Swedish man, would never go into court in Sweden. Never.

      So it's 100% about Assagne and who he is, i.e. 100% politics. And 96% of that is US influence, Swedes don't usually bother unless asked. See case Pirate Bay: Several illegal searches and confiscations of property until the prosecutor (with IFPI) managed to invent something that stuck in court, for a while. And for that they had to invent new class of crimes, not in any law.

      So no, laws don't mean a thing in politics and political prosecutions in Sweden: It's a police state like Soviet Union was. US have circumvented this whole process, unwanted people just vanish and are to be found from places like Guantanamo Bay years later. If ever. Not even the sham of honesty left.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just need your addresses ...

    There's quite a lot of certainty about the case/associated case(s) being written here. I want to be sure that you can put this evidence to the appropriate court when it comes to it. So in the interest of justice, please publish your address in your next comment.

    1. Scorchio!!

      Re: Just need your addresses

      This case is not sub judice in the UK, so no addresses are necessary. HTH. HAVND.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So let me get this straight

    their plan is to keep secret information which they intend to use to prosecute a man who spends his time revealing secret information?

    1. Ian Michael Gumby
      Black Helicopters

      Huh?

      Once Assnage is formally charged the information against him will be released to his defense team. That doesn't mean that the information will become publicly available.

      If/When Assnage is charged in the US, and then extradited, any evidence could be withheld from Assnage and the press, while his lawyers will know what they have and then provide a vigorous defense.

      More than likely if Assnage gets to the US, he'll cop a plea to a lesser charge so that he doesn't face the full weight of the jail time.

      I don't think people fully understand or appreciate the damage done by Assnage. Of course we'll just have to wait to see what Manning says about his 'hero'. His testimony could damn Assnage. When Manning's trial occurs and the truth is told, we'll see how Assnage fares.

      BTW, I know its Assange not Ass-n-age. I just like it better the second way. ;-)

    2. bill 36
      Alert

      just watch the george galloway vid on youtube

      What short memories many people have.

      The previous criminals in the white house, it's fitting that the name rhymes with toilet, tried to stitch one of our own MP's because he dared to expose the truth about Iraq.

      Galloway went marching up the white house steps, cuban cigar in his hand, with two pump action shotguns, fully primed, and gave them both barrels. And he didn't miss. He gave them the cold hard facts about their own regime in their own backyard. That takes a lot of balls.

      Now Assange is no Galloway but the parallels are obvious.

      So for all you who are in denial, sit back and look at the evidence, it is obvious whats going on and it is time to end it.

    3. Scorchio!!
      Grenade

      Re: So let me get this straight

      "their plan is to keep secret information which they intend to use to prosecute a man who spends his time revealing secret information?"

      Do you honestly believe Assange's/his lawyer's claim to that effect? Do you honestly believe that they would even *show* such material to him?

      Now take a look at his personal history, his behavioural profile. The man is a convict, for one thing alone. Really he ought to have been prosecuted in the US for stealing "passwords for the US Air force 7th Command Group in the Pentagon" [ http://www.thestar.co.za/assange-has-a-secret-of-his-own-1.1003105 ]. Indeed, it can be described as an offence for which US prosecution is outstanding. That's just a small chunk of the offences from that time.

      This man has to be dealt with, or he will continue unabated. He appears to be unchecked by anything but his personal sense of limitations, which further seem to be expansive.

      If you think the US should sit idly by when a man who has committed just the above offence is behaving as he now is, and dissimulating on the matter of texts, then you may wish to think again. This will become more and more interesting by the day, as his unsavoury past is slowly but surely dragged out and raked over. Nobel prize? Whomsoever suggested that might need to take a breath of fresh air and reconsider. Extradition is outstanding for the offences committed against the 7th Command Group on or around October 1991.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        Nobel, yes.

        "Really he ought to have been prosecuted in the US for stealing "passwords for the US Air force 7th Command Group in the Pentagon""

        That was 1991. Most crimes are unprosecutable after 10 years, do you know that?

        Sounds very much like afterthought: Assagne should have prosecuted then because he now is what he is and thus stupidity.

        "Nobel prize? Whomsoever suggested that might need to take a breath of fresh air and reconsider"

        Not at all: You really think Bush government is smaller criminal than Assagne? Really?

        Who started several wars (and killed tens of thousands of people, while ruining a couple of countries) just to make weapon makers and oil companies ultra rich? No other reason exists.

        Bush family.

        And you say Assagne is the big criminal for exposing this? Think again.

        Whistleblowers are always potential Nobel winners: Warmongers are not.

        1. Scorchio!!

          Re: Nobel, yes.

          ""Nobel prize? Whomsoever suggested that might need to take a breath of fresh air and reconsider"

          Not at all: You really think Bush government is smaller criminal than Assagne? Really?"

          Non sequitur. Your comparison with Bush. Not only did I not make such a comparison, but you'd have to read minds or find some physical evidence to support such a claim.

          It's an illicit technique in argument but more importantly that sort of sly argumentation can be used to justify any old crime can't it? 'Oh, I'll nick some money from the government in the form of a false benefit claim, after all didn't the politicians help themselves to vastly more than I'm claiming?'

          Disingenuous, egregious, all the worst of things stacked in there.

          Whistle blowers are not all potential Nobel winners, and conflating the warmonger Bush with them is a poor technique in argument. Nobel winners have to achieve very much more than Assange, and do so with a standard of excellence that enables the winner to distance themselves from criminal activity. Assange is 'working' in a field where his conviction shades his claims to an ethical standard.

          More will appear with time. I saw this days ago and said as much, and that argument on my part has already been confirmed.

        2. Scorchio!!
          FAIL

          Re: Nobel, yes.

          "That was 1991. Most crimes are unprosecutable after 10 years, do you know that?"

          I forgot to address this point of yours, which holds no legal water at all, least of all in the international arena. We are not talking about a domestic case. Take for example the case of Carlos the Jackal:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_the_Jackal

          HTH.

  6. Scorchio!!
    FAIL

    Poor ploy

    Imagine the scene if Assange's lawyer is not telling porkies: "'Scuse me Mr. Assange's lawyer, here are some texts that incriminate people as setting you up, and we are complicit; I'm afraid that I will have to gag you, so you can't mention it to the press. Now I do have your word that you won't tell the rest of the world about this, don't I, Mr. Assange's lawyer. After all, your client has a good record for not disclosing things that people want kept secret, doesn't he?"

    This is risible, pathetic.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    yes, exactly

    ***

    Interim conclusion: in a democracy Wikileaks is fully justified and all attempts to throttle it should be investigated with and by urgency by authorities enabled to protect the democratic nature of that country.

    ***

    Yes, this is patently correct. The fact that there are so many voices shouting in opposition to this fact is worrying, because it means either:

    a) Joe Public is so moronic, they will think *exactly* what they're told to think, no matter how self-destructive and disempowering the consequences

    or

    b) The internet and media are so infested with shills and propaganda sources, that the image of "popular opinion" is unrecognisably skewed in favour of certain special interests - interests that want to see less public power, less freedom of information and *definitely* less governmental scrutiny.

  8. g e

    Oh the irony

    If the text messages were to be leaked on Wikileaks

  9. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Curious

    What I can't work out is why Sweden wants to go to the trouble of extraditing him.

    He hasn't been charged and they want to question him.

    Why not save time and get on the RyanAir flight from Stockholm to London on Monday (cost about 200 quid return) to ask him questions?

    THEN extradite him if they find that there is a case.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Plain fascism.

      "Why not save time and get on the RyanAir flight from Stockholm to London on Monday (cost about 200 quid return) to ask him questions?

      THEN extradite him if they find that there is a case."

      That should tell you what's all about: Sweden is going to extradict him into US immediately, based on some make-believe excuse.

      For that reason only interviewing him in any third country is impossible.

      Also it's very hard to arrange political prosecution unless you own the prosecutor and judge and that means he _has to be_ in Sweden. Also the secret evidence (invented or not, who knows: It's a secret) is valid only in Sweden.

      I see that Sweden want's the guy into jail based on some evidence which is secret, on a secret trial. Just like the US and I don't believe a second that this is a coincidence: It smells too much US or CIA to be an accident.

      Sweden is known to "perfom services" for US earlier, latest was the Pirate Bay case: Totally legal in Sweden but RIAA/MPAA asked and Swedish judges invented a new class of crime just for shutting down PB. Not in any law even now, totally unique case.

      Fits perfectly to a definition of fascism: "Everything we say is a crime, fuck the law book".

      Even Nazi-Germany bothered to put everything in written laws: Something Sweden don't bother to do, so they are even worse fascists than Nazis, in a sense.

  10. Winkypop Silver badge
    Joke

    He turned ME into a newt !!

    ...I got better..

  11. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Which Gumby are you?

    http://www.techeye.net/assets/upload/science/melting-brain-implant-developed/gumby1.jpg

    1. hplasm
      Happy

      This one, judging by the comments...

      http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YiCD3sWkTpE/SiYLwHLzmQI/AAAAAAAAGTQ/05aVelJb9do/s400/fp0209~Monty-Python-Gumby-Man-Posters.jpg

  12. Claustral
    Go

    Get thee to Sweden - and then disappear

    Assange should get to Sweden post-haste. Drop this mucking about with resisting deportation and instead go and answer a few questions from the Swedish police. Remember, he's only wanted for questioning, not arrest.

    The SMS referred to in this piece are widely available to Swedish speakers and they tell a pretty strong story that the allegations are simply lover's revenge from the women involved, which has gone wildly out of control due to the recent attention to Wikileaks.

    Once Assange is free from the allegations here in Sweden he should hot foot it to a country without extradition arrangements with the USA, before the USA puts in official charges. It may already be too late though - he should have sorted this out a month ago.

  13. Rogerborg
    FAIL

    Of two things can we be sure

    (1) Assange is a grade A creepozoid who is primarily interested in fame for the sake of nobbing nerd groupies.

    (2) If he cared about Wikileaks in any way other than as a vehicle for (1), he'd resign from it forthwith, as at the moment the story is about Assange, not the government abuses that he's ostensibly interested in revealing.

    1. Stephen 10

      Except neither of those is true

      1) People who've actually met him an not just read hatchet jobs in the press refer to him as a warm, intelligent and likable individual. What's the source of your info or is it just confirmation bias?

      2) If he resigns it will be presented as evidence of guilt - it would be a huge mistake. His best result is if this is shown to be the clumsy character assassination job it is. Though it does appear to be wroking on the gullible like your good self.

      1. Scorchio!!

        Re: Except neither of those is true

        "1) People who've actually met him an not just read hatchet jobs in the press refer to him as a warm, intelligent and likable individual. What's the source of your info or is it just confirmation bias?"

        People have said such things of demagogues in the past (read about the Mitford sisters), so why not an ideologue? After all, should the women into whom he pumped his semen not have liked him for his deeds? Why *are* they whining about an experience that was undoubtedly good for them, one which they must have enjoyed, an experience to cherish? Perhaps I should collect the data in The Reg fora to see if any women have agreed with that perspective on these 'tizzy' women.

  14. kevbaines

    Total set-up

    Assange has so obviously been set up. Can you imagine any of this extradition fuss from the Swedes if he wasn't the guy behind Wikileaks? It's ridiculous. Look at this: http://bit.ly/gmd9D5

    1. Tilman Ahr
      Coat

      required. anyone read em?

      One of my first thoughts about this ran along similar lines:

      'Would John. F. Allegeged-rapist, maybe' have gotten 'them' to spend that much effort? Experience sez no. But: there may well be a mistake about cause and effect. Swedish authorities might well (just as most others, alas) have written the case off, if the suspect was Joe random public.

      After the allegations became a matter of international front-page news, though, their only possible course of action was to investigate to the fullest extent possible, including things like extradition from a foreign country.

      Had they held back anything, the consensus would have been: 'They let him off 'cause he's a celebrity'. To the Swedish authorities (if they are even remotely competent) THAT would be the worst case. Their concern isn't (and can't rightly be expected to be) not to piss off international PFYdom, but rather upholding the faith of their constituents in a thorough and unbiased legal system that has some teeth, if needs be.

      Just my 2 small-denomination-currency-units, your mileage may vary wildly, ianal and in no way responsible for anything. Mine's the one still not quite warm enough for the weather and I know the way out, tyvm

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        US pressure is obvious in this case

        "Had they held back anything, the consensus would have been: 'They let him off 'cause he's a celebrity'. To the Swedish authorities (if they are even remotely competent) THAT would be the worst case."

        No, because if you are a celebrity (other than Assagne) you _will_ get away almost anything in Sweden. Accusations thrown against A wouldn't cause even nominal investigations against anyone else, celebrity or not and definitely not a local celebrity. This is a very striking exception.

        Thus influence of USA is very clear and that's all is needed.

        1. Tilman Ahr
          Black Helicopters

          letters and/or digits

          "No, because if you are a celebrity (other than Assagne) you _will_ get away almost anything in Sweden. Accusations thrown against A wouldn't cause even nom

          inal investigations against anyone else, celebrity or not and definitely not a local celebrity."

          Well, I don't have any first-hand knowledge about the way Swedish law-enforcement works (or doesn't), so I can't rule this out. The core of my argument still stands, though.

          "Thus influence of USA is very clear and that's all is needed."

          I'd like to see some kind of proof (or even at least somewhat clear evidence) of that before I'll buy it hook, line and sinker. I spent quite a bit of time actively in the "autonomous left" scene to rule out that whole rape thing might just have been a personal grudge getting out of hand due to peer pressure. Or, for all I know, it might also be quite real. IMHO that scene isn't the most healthy environment for sexual relationships.

          And the want for a thorough investigation is easily explained by the motives laid out in my first post.

          Mind you: I wouldn't rule out US agents (of any shape or persuasion) to be behind (or at least contributing to) some kind of smear campaign against Mr. Assange, but as far as getting him to the US is concerned, I'm quite sure that dealing with UK or AU authorities directly would have been rather a bit more straightforward (and easier to boot).

          Always remember: Just because they're out to get you doesn't mean you're _not_ paranoid...

  15. Arthur Jackson
    WTF?

    Welcome Windrose

    Just like to welcome you to the comments board here at El Reg, you have been here a whole day now, and posted shed loads of stuff, well done again! keep posting

    Sarah, can we have a shill icon please?

  16. Scorchio!!

    Not too tightly wrapped

    Julian Assange, in response to his first conviction for hacking into foreign defence computer systems:

    "Your honour, I feel a great misjustice has been done and I would like to record the fact that you have been misled by the prosecution"

    The additional data about his background are now emerging, and I'd say there's every chance that this man has a neuropsychiatric condition that predisposes him to insightlessness in respect of his behaviour and the consequences thereof. Even so, he has to be stopped, as do the rest of them.

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=Your+honour%2C+I+feel+a+great+misjustice+has+been+done+and+I+would+like+to+record+the+fact+that+you+have+been+misled+by+the+prosecution&form=OSDSRC

  17. Mark Hewitt
    Black Helicopters

    How about bait 'n switch

    So Assange gets extradited from the U.K. to Sweden.

    what if the aircraft he leaves Britain on next lands in the U.S.?

    1. Ian Michael Gumby
      Black Helicopters

      @Mark Hewitt

      No.

      The aircraft from the UK to Sweden isn't in international waters long enough for the US to divert the aircraft to a US base and perform a rendition.

      (If you can believe the movies...)

      Maybe that's why Assnage won't go back to his native Australia?

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