back to article Should you lose your religion on your CV?

Your CV should tell prospective employers who you are - but should that include details of your religious faith? I headhunt science grads for banks, and recently received a CV with the applicant's religion right at the top. We’ve always told people not to do this for purely pragmatic reasons. Whatever your religion, there are …

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Anonymous Coward

Solution somewhere

I think it's safe to say that bar a few bigots, the only thing likely to sway a hirer's (subconcious?) mind is the thought that the candidate (of whatever religion) might be some kind of fanatical pain in the arse. So... I'm sure it must be possible to include something in a hobbies/interests section that discretely shows this not to be the case. Mind you the only things I can think of to include as interests are:

Falling down drunk

Getting tattoos

Eat bacon sandwiches

Working on Sunday

Adultery

So you see my problem.

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Anonymous Coward

Feedback

For about 1.5 years I started and managed an offshore firm in Thailand for a US based company. It was very common for candidates to list religion on a CV. Id say it was about 70% Buddhist, 15% Muslim and 15% Christian.

The reasons for this behaviour are deeply embedded in the cultural development of the region.

I would advise any UK/EU/US candidate to omit religion, race, marital status, etc...purely for the reason that it is now socially unacceptable. But in places like Thailand I would advise the opposite, for the same reason.

There are better ways to stand out on a CV, than do something that would make the HR department uncomforable.

*And most importantly*, If a company discounts your CV because your name sounds Muslim, do you really want to be working for them anyway?

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The kid had a point

About 6 years back I was getting no response on a number of applications. All into the financial industry sector and all through the same 3-4 agencies.

At which point it hit me - I baked a fake CV which was roughly similar to mine, changed the names of the educational institutions to ones from another country, changed employers to roughly their equivalents and put a different name on top.

I submitted the fake using a different email address, as well as my NTL phone number for it instead. The phone went off the f*** hook for the next week.

So to put it bluntly - I do not believe a single word about the financial industry being less bigoted. Yeah, bollocks.

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Tim
FAIL

Not really a controlled experiment was it?

So you changed the names of your employers and your universities and schools, but you seem to be claiming that you were discriminated against because of your name?

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Anonymous Coward

not too sure about your point

If you has just changed your name then this may be relevant - but changing the education establishments and organisations changes things greatly (Diploma from a Thailand College versus Degree from Oxford - I would expect the reaction to be different). This is not necessarily due to UK establishments or companies being better, but simply that the recruiter will have more knowledge about the education and organisations from their own country (I would expect a better response from a US recruiter if I had a cv with recognised US qualifications and a list of known US organisations over one with UK equivalents that aren't well known to a US employer, for example).

So I think your assumption is very flawed. BUT if you had ONLY changed your name, then that would have been a different matter, and you would have a valid point.

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Look for the positive

My advice to a candidate would be that if they're simply declaring a religion because they're proud of it or see it as a good thing then that's fine. I would warn them that I'd be obliged to hide it from many employers. I would also advise them that displaying one religion because they don't want to be assumed to be in another prejudges their prospective employer and might be seen as bigotry in itself and therefore used against them.

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Bronze badge

@Mr Squirrel

"P.S. I've been turned down for a job before because of my beard. It's not for religious reasons, just aesthetics. Turns out that means it's not discrimination."

Not sure about that - tried a sex discrimination case? If you are devoutely Moslem or Sikh it's going to fall under religous discrimination (and racial discrimination in the latter case).

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My advice would be to use a covering letter:

Use the CV as a sales document, put in items that are specifically about your ability to do the job, your education, hobbies and experiences and at the end give your name and telephone number/email as a contact point.

On an accompanying covering letter you can put things such as your full address, other areas of your personality that you feel important (disability, religion etc. etc.) which you can put forward in a non-CV way, perhaps with more explanatory text than you would on a CV (i.e. 'As part of my social group we take OAPs to Lourdes' or whatever ).

The point being that you can still inform a prospective employer about further aspects of your personality without appearing to be obsessed by them.

I personally would see religion on the CV as mildly suspicious, since I don't see it as relevant to the job, so why mention it as a discrete item.

Hope this helps.

ttfn

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Hobbies

Why are hobbies in any way relevant to how you will do the job? Employer's have enough of you without delving into your personal life.

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But so many do.

To many ask for that infomation. Its very annoying.

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WTF?

Religion can be relevant...

Religion is in some cases relevant to people's ability to perform a particular job...

Consider the recent case where a muslim worker working at a supermarket refused to have anything to do with products containing pork , which the supermarket clearly sells.

In that situation, a muslim employee is less useful than someone non religious. If all employees at that supermarket were muslim, then they would be unable to sell any pork products, and customers who wanted to buy such products would simply go elsewhere.

If religion is going to make you unwilling to do certain tasks, then the employer needs to know this up front so they can hire someone who will actually be willing to do the job they're being hired for.

Religion is a choice, it's not like race or gender that people have no control over, you choose to follow a religion and also choose how strictly you are going to follow it. Religion deserves no special legal protection.

If you choose to follow a religion that prohibits certain things, then you have made the choice not to take a job that would require you to do those things. It's absolutely insane to apply for such a job and then complain afterwards.

You made a choice, now you should have to live with the consequences, not enforce those consequences on others.

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WTF?

@Joe Montana

Yes, Religion is a choice. But it does deserve some legal protection- you shouldn't be forced to adopt another religion to "fit in" at work. As with all choices, it should be protected by law but the protected party should have responsibilities as well as rights- in this case you shouldn't be able to choose the degree to which you follow your religion. It should be wholehearted, devoted following or you lose your legal protection.

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Anonymous Coward

In the US, It's Illegal to Ask

However, it definitely makes a difference in some places. In Brooklyn and NYC, there are many companies you won't work for if you aren't Orthodox Jewish, and, in Utah, there are a lot of companies you'll never work for unless you're Mormon. They have ways of figuring it out.

I have a friend who owns a company, and interviewed an engineer. He hired the guy. The chap shows up for his first day with a Yarmulke, and announces that he'll be taking off every Friday at 3PM. Just like that.

Other than that kind of thing, it shouldn't make any difference to Whom you pray on Sunday. There's plenty of other things that people can get overzealous about that aren't religious-based. I've heard of some mighty interesting things done by PeTA folks, and by people who worship at the altar of The God Pr0n.

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Utahn != Mormon

An anonymous coward said that to get a good job in Utah, one must be Mormon. This misconception is out of date. Currently, only about 55% of Utahns are LdS (the proper term for Mormon). I have worked for companies in Utah where I was the only LdS (over 50 employees total), and would get hazed because I wouldn't use vulgarities or join the guys at the local bar after work, I have worked for other companies which are almost exclusively LdS. They don't wear white shirts and ties, address each other as "brother" or "sister", or any of that religious stuff. There is a fun rivalry between BYU and University of Utah.

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Badgers

As a rule

The things that go on your CV should be things that are relevant to propsective employers. These include such things as name, address, education, job history and so forth.

It may be that in the field in which you wish to work your choice* of religion may be of relevance. If that is the case, then by all means include that info. However, I would have thought that any job where it is of relevance, supplying that information would be redundant. I can't see many Jewish folk applying for jobs as the local vicar.

In any case, if you feel that your religious beliefs are of importance, or may be of interest to those prospective employers, I really don't think it should go on the _top_ of the CV. That should be your name, and address. If it goes on at all, it should go on somewhere around the bottom, probably near the bit that says,'I enjoy reading, alnd long walks in nature, etc.'** This is the bit of the CV that forms the theoretical tie-breaker if there is another candidate with the exact same level of experience, qualifications, pay expectations and personality as you. In practice, it is ignored, as all things religious should be.

AC, because I may have said some things that some religous folk might take objection to and I am no fan of mob hysteria.

*Although most religious folk seem to miraculously turn out to have the same religion as the majority of the people in the community they were born into. Fancy that.

** Unless you are applying for a job in the good 'ole US of A of course. Then shouting out about how much you love your particular flavour of sky pixie will probably get you the job over other considerations, as long as your sky pixie happens to be of the right skin colour.

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Object to...?

You sir, are a coward and a troll. Yes, a troll. Saying you don't believe in any god(s) is one thing. Saying you think religion is stupid is fairly objectionable, but still within your rights. But as soon as you start talking about "sky pixies" you are clearly just stirring it and being objectionable for the sake of it.

If you genuinely think religion is some kind of mental deficiency, ask yourself this: do you call the local mentally disabled kids names? Do you tease them about their handicap?

Or maybe you think it's an addiction. Do you chant "alkie, alkie" at every drunk on the street? Do you throw pebbles at heroine addicts on the street?

So what's so special about religion that makes it OK to tease people for sport?

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Grenade

so you're accepting the premise...

that religious belief can be categorised as a defect / illness as with the above examples?

i thought the sky pixies reference was great myself.

ac cos i'm a coward.

demons! demons!

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gct
Grenade

Because...

religion is a choice?

Having an addiction/being disabled isn't...

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FAIL

NOT RELEVANT

Not a fair or relevant comparison. The handicapped children don't CHOOSE to be handicapped, they are not indoctrinated into the wheelchair.

Religion is a choice. If you choose to believe in something that is completely substantiated by an old book, then fine. Don't compare it to the handicapped children

Religion has no place in the work place, any fucker that buggers off early on Friday should have to make up the hours or get docked the pay, same with the magic carpet people who have to go pray every 10 mins or whatever.

The religious eeejits are getting whatever they want because people are to afraid to offend them. Well here yeee, there isn't anything up there, round there or anywhere. So kiss your carpet/alter/blah blah blah goodbye and do some work you lazy fuckers.

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Anonymous Coward

@gct

Having an addiction isn't a choice? Drinking/smoking/injecting are choices, aren't they? Does thinking that "I can handle it - it won't be a problem" and being proved wrong absolve you of all responsibility?

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Grenade

Re: Object to... ?

You don't give your name and call people objectionable? perhaps it's you who is the coward and the troll?

"sky pixie" is a non denominational generic description for an imaginary being which is worshipped, it would be objectionable to single out zombie jesus and his many demi-gods or how the abrahamic faiths support incest to create mankind (as adam and eve's children all sleep together), how scientologists made up xenu or the fact that the flying spaghetti monster or pink unicorn might actually be "all made up".

>>So what's so special about religion that makes it OK to tease people for sport?

Well, if it's sport then poking fun at peoples "stupid" choices is reasonable, if I believed my cat was the pope then I'd expect some "fun poking" if I went around telling people (if I kept it to myself then there's no issue).

The other aspect is that unlike a personality disorder people can be "cured" of religion, it's only fair we try and help these poor individuals, although seriously why not just be a good person for the sake of it, rather than for selfish "fear of damnation" or "being saved" reasons? surely if there was a god then they would look more favourably on the altruistic people?

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Bronze badge

No good advice here

Including one's religious affiliation on a resume is simply not done.

However, it is definitely true that if someone is not a Muslim, but from part of the world where most people are... since one puts one's name on one's resume, one is identifying one's ethnic affiliation.

How do you send the message that one is not a terrorist, one does not support discriminating Jews and Christians based on their religion, that one supports the equality of women? For that matter, how does someone in that situation who is a Muslim do that?

Of course, if the Muslims had never been allowed in the country in the first place, this fellow wouldn't have that problem. But it's too late to fix that, since I really am against discrimination.

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WTF?

Don't make me laugh

It's a fact that just about all companies have some kind of discrimintion policy, usually (I hope) its unconcious. Try getting a plumbing job with a name like Tarquin Henry-Watts-LLoyd, it ain't gonna happen, similarly, Baldrick Trotter with his certificate from Bilston Poly is NEVER even going to get an interview for a senior role in any company no matter how good he is.

I'm going to change my name to Mohamed Kowalski, Get a lithuanian passport, change my sex to female, bath in 40 gallons of fake tan and go down the dole office, I will be in a £60,000 a year job with local.gov within a week.

No offence to all the minorities named above, just making my point

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Anonymous Coward

Religion?

Let's think.

Catholics including the Ustase, and Mark Chapman have murdered nearly a million people in the last hundred years, including John Lennon, for daring to suggest "imagine no religion" and "we're more popular than jesus" and forced the conversion of tens of thousands of children.

The pope also clearly told Gerry Adams to get on with Tony Blair, so they could collude in turning Northern Ireland catholic, and Tony Blair also managed to get millons of Catholic poles into the UK. Gordon Brown's trumped it with tying the UK to the European Catholic block vote.

Anal rape by some priest seems almost the better option here.

Islam, on the other hand, has killed maybe a couple of million, and at the last count on any of the websites devoted to tracking Islamic attrocities, is still bumping off hundreds of people a month, with reasons such as "She deserved to die, because he veil was blown up by a sudden wind or she went out without an escort, or they came out of their burning dormitory without all their clothes on, like western whores."

They doing this because of their adherent's affinity to fairy tales.

Why would anyone announce themselves affiliated to anything like that? I'd much rather have some guy working for me who had to go home early for his kids three times a year, than some nutter who spends every Sunday indoctrinating his kids with lies, or walks three times a day into a stationary room to kneel on a specially placed carpet.

The Swiss have it right. We should just ban it.

The irony is that if we killed as many priests and imams as they've killed innocent people in the last hundred years, we'd have world peace now. We should just shoot one religious teacher every day, until there's no religion.

It's like some bizarre dream, each opposing group is allowed to massacre the victims of their opposing skyfairy's cult, but they have an moratorium on killing the teachers of it.

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Stop

Personal details on CVs

For most public-sector jobs in the UK you complete one section of the application form with your personal details - name, address, religion, ethnicity, any disabilities etc - which are kept for HR and stats (e.g. counting up how (not) diverse the organisation is) and the second section is your relevant qualifications and covering statement. The two are separated by HR during the application process and the people who sift the applications only ever see the latter section.

This is intended solve the problem of potential discrimination (at least prior to interview - you can't do so much about what people think when they see you, other than having 3 or more people on the panel in an attempt to get some balance) - maybe it would be a good idea to make all organisations, public or private, large enough to warrant some kind of HR/personnel function do this by default? That way the hit-and-miss dilemmas of what to put on your CV are reduced.

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Dross like French?

There's an opinion which tells me something about why my bank goes into panic at the first sign of having to deal with a cross border payment. What do bankers do - shout at foreigners in English?

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Simple in Scotland

The casual question "What team do you support?" does it all.

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Thumb Down

Except it doesn't always work

As you can see to the left my name is David Murray, I also live very near Rangers stadium so you'd expect me to be one o them. But, I was brought up a catholic and most of my family support Celtic. If you ask me "which team do you support?" I'll say Fiat Yamaha with a big grin on my face. Then when you look totally confused I'll explain I don't pay any attention to football coz it's all shite and I watch MotoGP (among other 2 wheeled motorsports).

Plus everyone knows that question is an attempt at subtle discrimination so you're still open to be sued if you ask it in an interview.

So where would your casual question get you?

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Anonymous Coward

Colours

As a kid in the sixties, I was asked who I preferred, Rangers or Celtic, by a Scot selling the souvenirs in the street outside the Houses of Parliament. I said 'Celtic' and he was well pleased. I always liked Celtic because they wore green and white, while I hated the Rangers shade of blue. I didn't really appreciate there was religeon involved until Gascoigne stuck his oar in.

I really must find out if wearing our tartan would give me the right to kick Gordon Brown's balls into his throat! Though I guesss I'm too late anyway.

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Flame

hehehehe

And watch their heads explode when the anser to what team do you support being "Scotland and who ever is playing against England"

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Anonymous Coward

@'I am a Christian'

A good moral attitude and ethics are definitely positive traits.

Unfortunately, it's difficult not to draw the inference from your post both that you expect most (all?) Christians to share the same ethics, that your views are rather fixed and that you consider atheists incapable of constructing their own considered moral framework. In my experience devout Christians tend to look down on anyone with less common lifestyles, especially those who are not of a vanilla sexuality or in non standard relationships.

I would suggest that if you genuinely do believe most Christians meet a certain moral standard, there may be a severe disconnect between your viewpoint and how Christians actually act in real life.

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Black Helicopters

either or

If the guy has a lot of talent, then tell him to take it off. Any place that will hire him because of his religion will not be a good place for a talented person to grow.

However, if he is run of the mill, maybe a good schmoozer, some place where religion and politics rule might be a better fit, so he should leave it on.

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Dead Vulture

If they are so smart...

Let them decide which is the best option!

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Stop

"Mein Herr, I want employers to know that I am not a Jew."

>I want feedback on what advice I should give to the increasing number of people who want employers to know they are not Muslims

Presumably HR personnel and recruiters faced a very similar dilemma during the 1930s in Germany. But it's not actually a dilemma at all, it's a moral issue and a test of character, and the answer is obvious simple and crystal clear. You do not collaborate with or collude in oppression in any way. Full stop.

>I simply do not care if [ ... ] or whether [ ... ] I want to give the sort of good honest advice you would want to get if [ ... ]

Sorry, your premise is invalid. There are overriding social reasons why you may not ignore this situation, keep your head down and carry on regardless. There is a *duty* on each and every one of us towards society. It was expressed best in Pastor Niemoller's most famous work.

It's not just a theoretical issue. It's a real danger that is happening to us right now and every one of us must work to prevent it. That means making actual decisions, and taking a stand when confronted by obvious wrongs, not sticking your head in the sand but actually being willing to do what is right even at some trouble or expense to yourself. (Need I remind you of the vast international crisis recently caused entirely by everyone in the banking industry blindly considering nothing other than their own personal gain and career paths? You destroyed all your own corporations by acting in your personal interests and against the interests of the firms you were working for. Perhaps a few of you should have had spines then too.)

And you're overrating your own importance in the way you phrased the question. If you tell someone that doing that is wrong, and they don't like your advice, it won't ruin their life, you aren't the only recruiter out there, they can always go and find someone else who will tell them what they want to hear.

But if you won't speak out for all those Mohammeds you said there were in your industry, you said you were so proud of, but you won't say a word to defend them, what will they think of you?

And who will speak out for you when it's your turn?

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Stop

Not Religion Per Se

When you're trying to select a candidate for a position, determining whether the person is academically qualified for the job is comparatively easy. You have things like education and work history which you can evaluate qualitatively.

What's difficult about the hiring process is identifying some of the more difficult-to-quantify attributes of the candidate. Which is to say, are their individual eccentricities going to be compatible with the team they're going to be working with?

If one were applying for a teaching position in a Catholic school, and one were Protestant, it might be wise to add that to the CV simply to avoid wasting time or getting into unpleasant conflicts down the road. If I were reviewing the application, I might consider it a thoughtful addition.

On the other hand, volunteering information which is personal, and irrelevant to a particular occupation (e.g.: religion, marital status, Macintosh user ;-)) can sometimes be an indication that the applicant has a chip on his shoulder or a neurotic sense of entitlement. Nobody wants to come to work and deal with the daily ramblings of a drama generator.

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Anonymous Coward

A different slant

I'm a buddhist but I'm going to church every Sunday to get my kids into the one really good school round here. 99% actually I'd say the ethical premises match up anyway, but I do have to bite my tongue sometimes. Plus I gotta let the kids suck it up and 'fix' them later. Don't get me wrong I'm not going to tell them to forget it and be buddhist like me (Buddhism is non-evangelical anyway), I'm gonna tell them to make up their own minds.

It's interesting that schools are allowed to discriminate like this though. So top of the list is 'do you have siblings already at the school?' then geographical location as the crow flies, then 'Are you a dedicated Christian family at this church or one of the following churches (or provide a letter from your own church)?'

But the catchment area is always full (this school takes just 50 kids a year - hence it's so good) so it always comes down to church attendance.

Before you all flame me for living the lie - the other schools that we fit into the catchment of are truly shocking, and I can't afford to put all my kids in private and I'm not gonna pay for just one of them - how unfair would that be?!

Sorry I know it's not totally on topic, but I thought it relevant in a twisted way.

Anon for obvious reasons.

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Anonymous Coward

You answered it yourself

Greed is the enemy of bigitory, the candidates skills will sell themselves. In the multinational / multi-ethnic market place in which they are applying there is no need to qualify their religion.

Besides, in parts of the UK (N.Ireland) you are legally not allowed to pass on that information. In many ways, due to the troubles, N.I has gone a long way down the road of introducing legislation to prevent discrimination.

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Alert

absolutely

yeah I come from a secular family who are not religious, i got my MSc. before 9/11, went on holiday, by the time I came back after Sept and graduated in Dec the graduate placement with British Airways that I had been offered vanished, after I changed my Deed Poll (uk name change) in April the following year it was much easier to find work. funny that

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Thumb Up

Don't

Recently applying for jobs I've found some applications will specifically state that you should not include any diversity information on your CV, including the years for any prior education (so they can't simply infer your age from secondary etc). It's interesting to hear how this varies across cultures though.

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Paris Hilton

Does it really matter?

Okay, maybe it is needed, necessary and required to do some serious hand-wringing in public or at least a subset of "public".

But given the "jokily" example of 90k+ GBP doesn't it really say that there is a metric of sorts but it is nothing related to public aesthetics or public morals and everything to do with making private fortunes? And that, to me, seems far, far closer to the events observed over years made public in recent times.

Perhaps something along lines of:

Ah, we cannot make mega-bonus on this model with these parameters so we will adapt the model and rewrite the parameters with an end assumption of mega-millions bonus?

Elaborated to: ah well, the candidate naively broadcasts some allegiance to a faith group (neither worrying nor attracting) but have you seen the income level of immediate and extended family? Get said individual in-house and inducted soonest, and make it sweet - head spinningly, ego flatteringly, pressing-the-family-flesh nauseatingly sweet?

Nor do I take the line "buy talent cos your enemy will use it against you" (paraphrased).

Perhaps a greedy pig snout does not perceive religion as an observable but merely a conduit to either greater or lesser wealth?

ps - thanks for the opportunity to rant. Please post another article soon :-)

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Anonymous Coward

Oh dear

I seem to have arrived at a strange bastard child born (in an unholy manner I must add) of Have Your Say and the Daily Mail.

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Silver badge

Please! Do include your religion on your CV!

If you think it is that important, that big a part of your life, please, by all means, do include your religion, and all your religious activities on your CV!

Gives me one more thing to filter on, after bad spelling and grammar, h4x0r 5p34K[1], use of colo(u)red ink[2], ransom-note fonts[2], including pictures, logos & monograms[2][3], .DOC files attached to email[4], and poor layout.

I am currently consulting for a California-based Fortune 150 which is looking for a new senior SysAdmin, reporting directly to the CTO. To date, we have received in excess of 4,000 applications, from all over the world. Having filter criteria is a good thing ... About 50 contained religious background. They went into the shredder without any further processing.

[1] I kid you not ... This is a position that pays over US$85,000, WTF are the idiots thinking?

[2] Yes, it does make your CV stand out ... and say "shred me, oh, please, shred ME! Can I please, pretty please, be the first into the shredder?". (Yes, there are three [2]s in there ... )

[3]No, I am NOT likely to be bribed into hiring you with a photograph of your kitty, and frankly, I don't really care what YOU look like, either; this is a technical position, not a beauty contest. Nor do I give a rat's ass that you have a need to affect a personal logo or monogram, it has no bearing on the matter at hand ... and to the freshly minted BSc coed who seems to think that printing her resume on pre-printed MyLittlePony[tm] stationary is a good idea, here's a hint: It ain't. Likewise all you idiots who sent in CVs and resumes on Thanksgiving themed paper ...

[4] Just paste the text into the body of the email, you nit-wits! I'll probably reject it anyway, because we specified FAX, snail mail, or online-form applications only, but at least you'll save a little bandwidth!

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Troll

Ransom-note fonts?? Leet-speek??

I didn't understand the first phrase - OK, I thought I did, but self-denial kicked in. Fortunately, Google fixed it for me.

REALLY? For a job paying over $85K??? Are you advertising in the wrong place, like children's magazines, or porn sites? Mental hospitals? Microsoft Monthly? Or TheRegister, with an "Only Trolls And Lunatics Welcome" logo (attached, natch)?

Gobsmacked. Utterly.

Now, I gotta get a wheelbarrow to take my jaw home. It's dragging on the floor at the moment.

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Silver badge

As I said, I kid you not.

We were advertising in all the normal places IT professionals advertise.

When you get 4,653 resumes, there are always a few nutters. Humanity works that way. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's headscratchingly odd, and sometimes it's just plain sad.

"Gobsmacked" works nicely for the ransom note, though. Was a first for me.

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CV

I've had people interview for a job and when I tell them that their skillset is not a good fit they would blurt out that they were a Christian and then tell me why that would make them a better employee than better qualified non-Christians. That argument didn't go very far with me since I'm not a Christian but I assume that these Hail Mary moves do help them at times. I've even had it suggested that I join a Christian church just for the business connections.

In any case, I really want to know as little as possible about the personal lives of applicants; generally after they are hired we get talking about politics and religion but by then we are usually friends and can disagree without thinking less of each other.

My ex-brother-in-law devised a system for disclosing his religion, politics and sexual orientation because he knew potential employers could not ask. For example, he would mention going to mass so the interviewer would know he was Catholic if the interviewer was familiar with Catholicism and knew Catholics called their worship mass; he would mention volunteering for a left leaning group that few conservatives were familiar with so if the interviewer was liberal he would score points; and would mention that he doesn't have any kids "that he knows of." to make it obvious that he is straight.

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Big Brother

Define White

Having spent the last six months looking for a job, mostly on line, I have had to fill out quite a few EEOC questionaires. If your ancestry is from the " Cradle of Civilization" , i.e. Europe and the Middle East, you are considered White. So an Arab is not part of a protected class and is free to be discriminated against. Now religion might be a different story but saying you can' work Saturday because it is the Sabbath isn't going to work.

And if you are South African with European Ancestors you are not "African-American". I am curious what the U.K. Considers to be "White".

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Silver badge

It gets worse ...

All of my ancestors are Suomalainen (Finns), most from north of the Arctic Circle ... Even though I'm as white as the driven snow, there is absolutely zero Caucasian blood in my system. Yes, I was classified as a "minority" when I was at school, at least according to the fine folks in the .gov who payed my way.

As usual, I have no answers ... Just muddying the waters a little more :-)

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The writer responds

I did have one well known figure in banking ask me if my firm could filter out people who believed in Creationism...

I flatly refused, even though my contempt for such people is so great that I use "Creationist" in casual speech as a term of abuse when I see something as stupidly dishonest.

I serve a higher ethic in my work, I do it for the money.

The discipline here is that I have a certain power over people's lives. If I don't send your application on to the employer you don't get the job, with absolute certainty, regardless of your ability.

The effect of that can be pretty large, and for those who say I should exercise my power to some social purpose should ask themselves "Do I want Dominic to use this power against me" ?

Statistically, a reader of this piece may hold political views I dislike, or come from a country that has done something bad to mine, or belong to an ethnic or religious group that has done something bad. You may smoke, a habit I regard with utter contempt, or eat eggs, the smell of which makes me feel sick.

You may wear clothing that covers you more than I find "normal", or you may wear less, want me to act on that against you ?

I can fuck with your career.

I have a *huge* database of decision makers in banks, and can whisper in their ears.

You want me use that power against "bad" people, you had better check you're not someone I think is bad.

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Silver badge

Somehow, I doubt it ...

"I can fuck with your career."

No. You cannot. I categorically reject that you, personally, have ANY power over my career. May I humbly suggest you re-think the way you are trying to communicate this concept?

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