Re: Yank Time Telling
Mr. Buttar: "quarter of nine" (pronounced kworderanine) is in fact 8:45. Be glad that we throw in any preposition at all--as I recall, the Germans don't.
Vulture Central plans Brit-Yank dictionary
It's come to our attention (again) that some of our Stateside cousins continue to struggle with El Reg's flavour of the Beloved Mother Tongue™. We have, of course, in the past published a couple of brief guides to those terms which prove The Register is a fertile breeding ground for neologisms, as well as a treasure house for …
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Illiterates
How about the difference between Ensure ( = make certain) and Insure ( take a policy out with an Insurance company)? Despite the fact that even our transatlantic throwers of tea parties don't talk about Ensurance companies, they still struggle with this one.
There's that wonderful line in Mary Poppins where Mr Banks says that throwing the tea overboard made the tea undrinkable, even for the Americans
BTW, those people across the pond speak the word "route" as if rhymes with "doubt", which probably explains their problems with the word "Cisco"
Stoke
Cos kick a bo agin a wo and y'ed it till yer bost it.
PS. Promise to always use pounds sterling in money matters and not use $. If necessary also put $ in brackets but not pounds sterling. Thanks.
@Tom Maddox
Actually US English is much closer to French in many respects than is English. the US ending -ize for example = Froggy but we use -ise which was Caxton. Who was definitely English. But admittedly a bit poncy.
I can assure you most stridently that English is constantly evolving. We take words and phrases that we like (mainly ones that express a sentiment in one or two words rather than a whole sentence) and, after a degree of Anglicisation, incorporate them. If you look at the etymology English is closer to the old Germanic languages than the Romance ones anyway.
However, IIRC your last head of state said something on the lines of "The problem with the French is they have no word for 'entrepreneur'"* which is both so French and so American at the same time that it writes its own punchlines.
*even if this is not true it is funny enough to be so.
After all that
Niche ( there is an accent over the e but you have to imagine real hard to see it)
It's pronounced Neesh not Nitch. Every time I hear you people dumb it down, I just want to hop on a plane, fly over there and punch you in the face. Seriously, sort it out.
Pronunciation
Many years ago I was in the states and I was told by somebody that Merkins pronounce French words correctly, whereas brits do no. The guy seemed to be basing his entire argument on two words. One was "lootenant" the other was "erb". OK so the English pronunciation of the former is downright confusing, but the French do no pronounce it Loo-Tennant. The latter is as far as I'm aware is a perfectly valid English word and is correctly pronounced with the H. The French spell it with an extra E, so it's a different word.
However his entire argument fell appart when I asked him to name a particular car. He called it a Cadillac Coop Di Vill. There you go then, perfect french pronunciation.
Now before any yanks choose to jump on me about the average Brits failure to pronounce foreign names correctly, you're dead right. The difference is that we don't get on our high horse about it, we know we're crap at foreign languages. But to the guy commentating at Laguna Seca a couple of weeks back it's not Chris VermOOlen, OK?
The most interesting linguistic event on that visit to the states came when I was introduced to and old lady in Kansas. It was explained that I was visiting from England and she asked how long I'd been in the country. When I replied "about a month" she told me I'd picked up the language really well and spoke it "like a native". Well, duh!
a descriptive heading or caption
May I offer my most enthusiastic contrafribularities in advance on hearing of your forthcoming dictionary.
Misc.
They were called rowters right from the git-go. Trust me, I was there. Cisco calls 'em rowters. End of discussion.
Root beer (brewed with sassafras) is NOT ginger beer (brewed with ginger).
Funny story: My family has always used "owt" and "nowt" and other Yorkshirisms, since before my 70+ year old mum can remember. Naturally, growing up here in Northern California, I learned early on to speak more commonly used English, but when visiting the Grandparants I always drifted into a vague Yorkshire accent. When we landed in Yourkshire and I entered school (high school, 2nd year), one of my class mates hit me with the classic:
See all, hear all, say nowt.
Sup all, eat all, pay nowt.
An' if tha does owt for nowt, do it for thissen.
He was hoping to confuse me, as schoolboys will when outsiders join their school. I answered in his own dialect (something like "tell us summit ah don kna, lad". Naturally, the class thought I was taking the mick & the teacher sent me to the Headmaster. I explained that I learned the dialect from my grandfather, but had no idea where he learned it (most of my G.Grandparents were Finns). The Head called my mum, and she corroborated my story and I went back to class.
Several years later, between lower & upper 6th, said Grandfather died. It was summer vacation, so I was allowed to go help clean his things out of the house. Amongst his possessions was my Great Grandfather's diary, containing the details of his trip across the country by covered wagon ... It turns out he had learned English during that trip from his first wife, a Plains Indian, who had learned English from her first husband, a Yorkshireman. Small world :-)
To wrap things up, take it from someone who has spent time on both sides of the pond ... Yanks and Brits are a LOT more alike than you might think. Most of the posturing is simple fear of the unknown. I think it was Samuel Clemens who said "Americans and the British are two great people separated by a common language" ... viv l'difference, I say!
British?
Funny isn't it that the word "British" seems to mean "English" to both the English and the citizens of the USA. El Reg at least seems to be confusing a narrow form of English English, if you will, with British English which is about forty seven different languages.
For example a Scottish woman living in our village refers to the kids on the council estate as neds. You might call them chavs, in some parts of the country they might be called pikeys, but elsewhere pike would mean gypsy. Of course to confuse things more the word chav supposedly has Romany roots. Elsewhere in Britain those self same kids might be called townies, charvers or scallies or many other names. So don't go giving me that UK > US crap when what you mean is south east England > US.
Funny, but only tenuously linked story.
Victor Spinetti was once collecting an award in New York. Before he went up to collect it somebody told him there were a lot of "his countrymen" in New York so it would be great if he gave the acceptance speech in his native language. He was surprised by this, but went for it and gave the speech in Welsh to a totally bemused audience. Or at least that's the way he tells it.
This probably says more about thedifferent British and American attitudes to nationality than language. Spintti's grandfather may have been Italian, but he considered himself Welsh. Many Americans with an Italian grandfather would consider themselves to be Italian.
I met an American in Cork once who told me she was Irish. "Really? You don't sound it." She replied that she was in fact born in Chicago, but her father was Irish. So I asked where her father had been born. "Minneapolis" came the obvious reply. Yes I know it's a horrible stereotype, but it's a true story.
The different games of football
"American football; it's rugby with blokes dressed in quilts." - Podcast Paul
"Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and, at the end, the Germans win." - Gary Lineker
Here's another one...
In the UK pickle is what a 'Merkin would call relish, not a green abomination lurking in a jar with it's chums at the back of a chippie.
What a 'Merkin would call a pickle, a Brit would call a gurkin.
Once saw this cause a truly splendid culture clash in the Highgate Wertherspoons when a chap from the left hand side of the pond didn't get quite what he was expecting with his ploughman's lunch.
Cheers, Steve.
Chuffed to bits!
I'm chuffed to bits == absolutely pleased
absolutely gutted == couldn't feel worse, rather disappointed
muppet
in the US 'news' it seems the use of the words 'plaudits' and 'pundits' is taking off. Now oft-used by anchor people who previously were in charge of finding newsworthiness in small youtube clips of cockateels on motorcycles, etc. And were really happy when that became either 'headline news' or 'breaking news'...
bike / motorbike / motorcycle / bicylce....
Well in for a penny in for a pound.
Hmm, I suppose if your gona have Chav you also need NED.
Then there is things like 'old bean'.
Hmm, you know I could unload a pile of old Scottish words here, but I am not sure I feel like reading all the old Welsh, Irish + world and dogs ones, so I will keep mine to my self.
O'yea, describing somthing as 'Barry' as in a good thing, and of course the 'Malky' not a good thing in general. I wonder if world war 3 will be described by the chips and roachs as a 'Blair' or 'Bush' ?
:P < Beer, because I want one, and so should you, its the new cure to old age >
@Michael 2
Quite the party pooper aren't we!
Be a card old boy & jolly along so we can get back to having a chuckle :-)
People, people...
I think most can agree that of all the countless varieties of English in use throughout the world, the Australian one is easily the most troublesome. Half of their local terms sound like they were invented by drunken children under the care of some senile Mary Poppins.
How about...?
...getting them to understand the difference in pronunciation between rout and route?
ROUT (pronounced "rawt") is what happens when an army panics.
ROUTE (pronounced "root") is from the French word meaning "road" or "path". Hence, it's "root sixty-six" (not "rawt sixty-six") and that piece of equipment in your Comms panel is a "rooter", not a "rawter".
Actually, considering the default configurations I've seen in some yank-produced kit, the second pronunciation might be correct in those cases.
Oz Router
In Australian English (Strine) the pronunciation rooter means something completely different so Cisco products and spinning cutter drivers have to be called pronounced rowter.
There is a probably apocryphal story about an Australian basketballer visiting the US who was greeted by a cheerleader with "Hi, I'm Randy and I want to root for you". He thought all his Christmases had come at once!
Mine is the drizabone
@ Jimmy Floyd and @Steve Dulieu
Thanks to www.future-perfect.co.uk
License
This is the verb ‘to license’.
Examples:
* I license this pub.
* You are licensed to run this pub.
* The officer licenses the taxis here.
Licence
This is the noun ‘a licence’.
Examples:
* I have a driving licence.
* She wants to buy a licence for her car.
And Steve? "Gurkin" is spelled gherkin
Unfortunately, living in France is slowly destroying my native language: jogging = the clothes you wear while running, footing(???!): a form of running or trotting.
Geography
For us:
USA = Politically, the middle segment of North America, between Mexico and Canada.
For them:
UK = United Kingdom. Comprised of Scotland, England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
GB = Great Britain. An island, comprised of Scotland, England and Wales
Ireland = An island, comprised of the Republic of Ireland, an independent country (known locally as Eire) and Northern Ireland, a province of the UK.
England = One part of the UK, to the south of Scotland and to the east of Wales. While it is true that all of the English are also British, t is incorrect to refer to the British as 'English', as only those from England are 'English'. Similarly, Scots and Welsh are British, but they are not English.
Scotland = A semi-autonomous nation to the north of England, part of the UK, with its own parliament, police forces, educational infrastructure, native language (not used much anymore though), historical background and culture, etc. Scottish language, history and culture branches off from the Vikings and Celts, while English language, history and culture comes predominantly from the French and Romans.
Wales = A pseudo-autonomous nation to the west of England, sharing many things but having a strong regional identity and its own official, if unpronounceable, language.
The Isle of Man, Gibraltar, Jersey, Gurnsey = unmaintained Crown dependencies.
Commonwealth = What's left of the British Empire. A free association of 53 nations from around the world that were once colonies of Great Britain, including Canada and Australia.
@Jake
"They were called rowters right from the git-go. Trust me, I was there. Cisco calls 'em rowters. End of discussion."
Yes....Cisco seem to thing something that routes (roots) traffic should be called a router (rooter), but as they prounce route "rowt" in the same way as rout "rowt" then of course it will always have been called a "rowter". That dont make it any righter.........
Now, is it Baysil or Bazzil that i sprinkle over my pizza?
Now for the really big debate,....
Is is "asshole" or "arsehole"?
England is not the only one with this problem,...
I once spent an enjoyable afternoon at the NZ Embassy in Washington reading a book entitled "The New Zealand to American Dictionary". My favourite passage,....
"When a 200 pound NZ man mentions he is a hooker, he is not actually paid to have sex with people".
But seriously...
There IS actually a large gulf in language usage between the limeys and the yanks, but the limeys are closing that gulf by using Amerrricanisms... I'm an Amerrrican and have lived in the UK for 9 years now, and have picked up the lingo (Viz magazine actually makes sense and is goddamn funny), but I often do a double take when I often hear American expressions uttered by local Brits, such as:
"You bet your bottom dollar"
"The buck stops here"
"A ballpark figure"
"The train station"
"It's a no-brainer"
etc etc...
Amd what's up with using Americans in adverts in the UK (and not just sarky ones, but actually some "decent" adverts)? I don't mind, but it's f*cking with my mind and accent, as I sadly watch my accent slide from American West Coast to Mid-Atlantic...
Rawte 66?
As I brought it up, and it seems to have caused some controversy;
@jake - if cisco calls something that route's (roots) network traffic a router (rawter) do the drive on a route (rawt) to route (root) themselves to work?
Paris, because she knows the difference!
Biscuits and Cookies
There is a technical difference. Britain has always had both sorts.
A Biscuit - apart from the US breakfast scone, which is sort of warm stodge - A Biscuit is cut from rolled dough, while a Cookie is made from a dollop of batter. There is a tool called a biscuit cutter.
Industrially things are similar - biscuit dough is rolled and cut (or stamped). Cookies are dropped from a depositor nozzle, sometimes with a wire cutter to interrupt the stream.
Just to complicate the matter, my Mother-in-law came from Canada with a recipe for anzac biscuits, which are deposited and then rolled. Then the Scots have drop scones, which I understand are a weapon of the besieged, used to drop on incoming armies. At least one scottish scone is made of stone.
In the US, as far as I can make out, all styles are called 'cookies', and you have to shop for a cookie cutter. It seems a shame not to have the distinction.
The definitive biscuit is the ginger biscuit, not available in the US as far as I know. Just to confuse you further, the proper name for it in the bakery trade is a 'Ginger Snap'.
Now, let us consider the products of Messers Carr. Until they were bought by United Biscuits they sold four different versions of Carr's water biscuits (High bake, low bake etc). These appear to be now called Water Crackers - perhaps since Kellog acquired the company. This is probably the correct name. Water Crackers originated in the southern states of the USA before their civil war. Carr adapted the principle and made something less sweet and less salty, more like the traditional Bath dry biscuit. But they are undoubtedly crackers - crackers are moulded and cooked simultaneously between heated irons. c.f. Jacob's cream crackers, where the cream is cream of tartar.
Oh, by the way, the proper name for a Bath dry biscuit is a Bath Oliver. Nothing to do with our civil war, they were named for a Dr Oliver who ran a watering place in Bath. The ownership of the recipe has passed hand over hand to a company called Fort, nothing to do with Fortean Times, although they taste the same.
@Neoc
" ...getting them to understand the difference in pronunciation between rout and route?"
Got that. But we are in a different century now. Language mutates.
"ROUT (pronounced "rawt") is what happens when an army panics."
If you are an "I" (Iranian, Iraqi, Italian). Or sometimes French.
"ROUTE (pronounced "root") is from the French word meaning "road" or "path". Hence, it's "root sixty-six" (not "rawt sixty-six")"
One pronunciation of the spelling, in that context, yes.
"and that piece of equipment in your Comms panel is a "rooter", not a "rawter"."
No. It's a router, pronounced "rowter". It's used to rout (rowt) traffic.
"Actually, considering the default configurations I've seen in some yank-produced kit, the second pronunciation might be correct in those cases."
Default configurations for techie-kit suck world-wide; it's something that the technical cognizant amongst us have been griping about for decades. During the meanwhile, your country ships my country ... what kind of kit, exactly?
Most folks with a license to drive have no clue how to drive ... and licence isn't a word anymore.
Pickling is pickling, regardless of end-product or spleling. It's all tasty :-)
@ Omar Marquez
"The train station"?????
It's always been the train station. Surely the americanism is the Railroad station?
o & a levels
Someone should caution the rebels that these actually refer to sexual skills rather than educational milestones.
Route/Route
There's a thought, why do Americans call the road "Route 66", "Root 66" yet when following a "route" they follow a "rowt"?
And can we have a pronuncation guide for them?
It's always annoyed me that they can't pronounce things correctly but my recent phonecall to the xbox number had me incensed
The website is "xbox dot com" not "xbarks darrrttttt carrrmmmm"
And "herbs" is pronounced "herbs" not "Erbs" with a harsh "E"
And it's "carib-e-an" not "carib eon"
And it's...
And it's...
@ @ Omar Marquez
Really? Usually "railway station" in my experience.
@Jake
(1) Although we are in a different century now [to the last one] I thought routers were invented more than 9 years ago. Shows what little I know
(2) The French don't rout, they surrender.
(3) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/route
Although both pronunciations are given the primary one is "root".
None of the definitions of "rout" indicate anything similar to "route" at all. So unless your router is used to make your network traffic run away shitting itself it is a rooter and not a rowter.
@ Anonymous John
Good point,
Showing my youth there, it's been train station for as long as I can remember. Must be deep seeded americanism's in Nottingham!
I blame Raaaaaaaaaaaabin Hood.
@Softly softly catchee monkey
First part of this expression became the middle of a marvellous series of police dramas which began with Z Cars and ended with Softly, Softly Task Force.
Quality exceeded only by The Avengers.
@AC 14:58
Oh calm down you wanker. You're taking seriously something that really isn't supposed to be.
@Jason Togneri
Very good summary of the peoples of the Islands of the North Atlantic.
However, no one in Ireland calls the independent bit "Éire" when they are talking English. It is the Irish language word for Ireland, like "Deutschland" is the German language word for Germany. So, it is only called "Éire" when we are using the Irish language.
If you use "Éire" in English language conversation or print, that marks you immediately as a foreigner. It sounds weird to locals, like using Deutschland instead of Germany.
@Jason
A correction or two - Both Scottish and English culture, language and so on are derived from a mixture of Ancient British, Anglo-Saxon and Norman. There is also Gaelic in parts of Scotland.
Scotland has three languages - English, Scots (closely related to English, the language Rabbie Burns wrote in) and Gaelic (related to Irish and considerably more unpronouncable than Welsh).
Cornwall is considered by some of its inhabitants to be seperate from English, having maintained a Celtic language (related to Breton and slightly more distantly to Welsh) until fairly recent times (that's the early 19th century to us) which has been reinvented and revived, and has been in use by a small group of enthusiasts for the last 100.
Table and Pasty
Confusion arose in a meeting I had with some of out American cousins when a discussion item was 'tabled'. As I understand it in UK parlance that means to raise the issue however the yanks thinks it means to dismiss the item from the agenda - d'oh.
Oh and please add pasty. To you or I a delicious snack from Greggs but to Americans it's a nipple tassle. And I'm not going to explain how I dicovered that.
Different version...
For us brits to get the right meaning from your septic contributors. Maybe you could start with pedophile vs paedophile?
Too many icons! Chose a random one.
@John70
I see your Yorkshire rhyme and raise you a Mackem one.
One Sunday mornin' Lambton went
A-fishing in the Wear;
An' catched a fish upon he's heuk
He thowt leuk't vary queer.
But whatt'n a kind ov fish it was
Young Lambton cudden't tell-
He waddn't fash te carry'd hyem,
So he hoyed it doon a well
Chorus
Whisht! lads, haad yor gobs,
An' aa'll tell ye aall an aaful story,
Whisht! lads, haad yor gobs,
An' Aa'll tel ye 'boot the worm.
Noo Lambton felt inclined te gan
An' fight i' foreign wars.
He joined a troop ov Knights that cared
For nowther woonds nor scars,
An' off he went te Palestine
Where queer things him befel,
An varry seun forgat aboot
The queer worm i' the well.
But the worm got fat an' growed an' growed,
An' growed an aaful size;
He'd greet big teeth, a greet big gob,
An greet big goggle eyes.
An' when at neets he craaled aboot
Te pick up bits o' news,
If he felt dry upon the road,
He milked a dozen coos.
This feorful worm would often feed
On caalves an' lambs an' sheep,
An' swally little bairns alive
When they laid doon te sleep.
An when he'd eaten aall he cud
An' he had had he's fill,
He craaled away an' lapped he's tail
Ten times roond Pensher Hill.
The news ov this myest aaful worm
An' his queer gannins on
Seun crossed the seas, gat te the ears
Ov brave an' bowld Sor John.
So hyem he cam an' catched the beast,
An' cut 'im in twe haalves,
An' that seun stopped hes eatin' bairns
An' sheep an' lambs an' caalves.
So noo ye knaa hoo aall the foaks
On byeth sides ov the Wear
Lost lots o' sheep an' lots o' sleep
An leeved i' mortal feor.
So let's hev one te brave Sor John
That kept the bairns frae harm,
Saved coos an' calves by myekin' haalves
O' the famis Lambton Worm.
@ Paul Ross - Define 'gunt'
Its a word used by ventriloquists, usually preceded by the word silly
Oh, are we on poetry
BATH NEET by Christine Thistlethwaite
Ah wer skennin’ in a plummer’s winder
As Ah traipsed along on t’street
When me een wer caught wi’ a breet display
O’ t’latest bathroom suite.
T’colour wer sooart o’ pinky puce,
T’taps wer gowd an’ t’bath wer rahnd -
By ‘eck it wer a stunner! It cost a thahsand pahnd!
Wesh basin wer shaped like a scallop shell
Deep enuf ter sink a fleet in,
The wer t’toilet, an’ summat Ah cunt mek out -
Ah think it were ter wesh yer feet in!
Ah thowt ‘ow this luxury aw’ could be mine
If nobbut Ah ‘ad but t'dough,
An’ Ah smiled as Ah thowt o’ t’contrast
Wi’ bathneets o’ long ago.
Frida’ neets, Mam’d mek t’fire up
Wi’ plenty o’ wood an’ coil,
Fill up t’big pans wi’ watter
An’ set ‘em on ter boil.
Then, out o’ t’wesh-house she’d fetch t’tin bath
An’ set it on t’owd pegged rug,
Then each on us bairns’d be lathered in turn,
In t’kitchen ser warm an’ snug.
Cleean ‘jamas wer wettin’ on t’oven dooar,
As we splashed an’ laiked in t’tub,
‘Til Mam’d say, “Let’s be ‘avin’ yer!
It’s tahm fer a rub-a-dub-dub!”
Then, cocoa an’ parkin curled up bi t’fire,
In a sleepy, shinin’ glow.
Aye! Ah’d swap aw them fancy bathroom suites
Fer a bathneet o’ long ago!
...and if you're struggling with demotic anglo-saxon...
www.viz.co.uk/profanisaurus.html
We're not all completely clueless...
Actually, there's a sizable British population here in Seattle. So if we're puzzled over some of the lingo, I'll go to the George and Dragon in Fremont and buy someone a pint for the translations. Amuses the hell out of them.
I, for one, would treasure a guide to British lingo.
Mine's the pint of Wychwood Hobgoblin...
@Hobgoblin
You can get Hobgoblin in Seattle???
I can't even get it in my local !
How about waggledance, piddle in the hole or the oft lethal Old Tom?
You fools!
We'll all regret this foolishness when the Yanks invade us, no doubt invited in by a government we're desperate to get rid of.
Learn Welsh, Latvian, Punjabi or proper urban slang ("the filth brung 'im 'ome an' she went f*ckin' radio!") or whatever they talk down your way and don't tell the septics what it means!
Er, no, I mean I for one welcome our new alien overlords...
Proof that the first Americans went both ways
Explain to them what fanny means with maybe a curious aside as to whether the meaning switched during the long voyage to America..
Having lived here for about 11 years I must confess to still snickering whenever they say it.
Wanker, tosspot and tosser are of course good ones, explaining that while they mean the same thing they have varying degrees of offensiveness ranging from the the worst Wanker to the least Tosser, which is so inoffensive you might use it to describe your own friends. Me old tosser.
Pronunciation
One of my pet peeves with the US is that a 'bouy' is pronounced BOY not BOUIE
Also bastardised is not spelt with a Z
A title is not required
Starter = Appetiser
Entree = Appetiser
Main course = Entree
Afters = Dessert
Afters = Drinks after the bar closes
Lock-in = Drinks after the bar closes
Afters = Sexual intercourse later in the evening
Pub = Bar
Boozer = Pub (note that drinker does not mean a pub anywhere I have ever been)
Boozer = Drinker, usually to excess
Bar = The place in the pub from where you buy a drink
Tip = Something you may possibly give to a waiter/waitress if you receive exceptionally good service
Waiter/waitress = Server
Leverage = abstract noun meaning the effect produced by a lever. Pronounced leeverage, since otherwise it would be spelled and levverage. NOT A VERB
Beer = Traditionally brewed ale
Lager = Continental (European) beer
Piss = British equivalent of lager, typically with an Australian or vaguely foreign sounding name, but probably brewed in a factory in Kent
Full stop = Period
Period = something unpleasant that happens regularly to ladies
Banger = Old car
Banger = Sausage
@Hawkmoth: Tah is simply spelled ta, and just means thank you. It is typically used in Northern England and derives from the word 'Tak' which means thank you in one of the Scandinavian languages (possibly Danish). Punters are customers.
While you're at it.
This is nothing to do with languages but I'd like to see a simple modification to the comments pages. Add an index number prefix to the subject line of each message published. That would make it a lot easier to refer back to an item to which people have made further comments or to which a comment writer might refer.
At present, with the current topic running to nearly 150 comments the only way I know to read comments referred to by other commenters is to do a text search. Whwreas it would be much more practical to just sroll back to the appropriate index number.
This topic is closed for new posts.
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