surprised nobody's mentioned it, but ...
need to ask == never know
Microsoft conjures imaginary 'Apple Tax'
The age-old battle between Microsoft and Apple is heating up again, and this time, Redmond is cheating. On Thursday, Microsoft released a company-sponsored snark-fest written by Roger L. Kay of Endpoint Technology Associates that is, simply put, an embarrassment. This report, entitled What Price Cool? (PDF) and breathlessly …
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apple sucks
is my normal opinion. But i also think microshaft sucks. but in this case I am willing to put my normal anti-apple opinions aside and join the fanbois slagging microshit, because for this blatant, immature, petty, vindictive pile of malformed opinions they deserve a good kicking.
maybe one day, if that wanker ballmer and his tosspot company ever hits puberty, they might start growing up and maybe one day, after that, they might start producing something thats actually worth the money you normally have no choice but to pay them.
the tosser that wrote WPC? should try an apple out, and a pc with linux on it, and maybe get a qualification in hardware while hes at it. after that, i might consider considering his opinion on the matter.
Price comparison
"However, a stock Mac Pro with two Xeon 2.26GHz E5520s, 6GB of 1066MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM, 512MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 120, a 640GB 7200rpm HDD, and other config details as listed above runs $3,299, while a Dell Precision T5500 with the same processors, 4GB of 1066MHz ECC DDR3 (Dell doesn't offer a 6GB config), 512MB Nvidia Quadro FX 580, a 500GB 7200rpm HDD, and other details as listed above runs $3,430.
Difference minimal, no "Apple Tax," argument remains in play."
Similarly, if you ignore the Precision and go for a T610 server in tower config with the Nelahems, the prices are even closer.
I think that says more about the reasonable price of the Mac, as much as it says about the [arguably] higher spec [eight drive bays, etc] of the Dell, given the build quality differences - having worked with both, the Mac is a piece of art, the Dell is a workhorse but both are seriously solid bits of kit in my experience. Really depends on your definition of workstation and how much you need eight drive bays....
Steve 'agnostic' Raith.
Sales figures
When you're comparing Macs to PCs to investigate price gouging (the grown up way of saying "Apple Tax"), perhaps you should be looking at items that actually sell rather than obscenely top-of-the-line workstations. The Mac Mini is somewhat competitive in its form factor, but the laptops really are obscenely overpriced and priced on a basis that baffles this reader. The only difference between a $1000 and a $1300 laptop is its case? The only difference between a $1300 laptop and an $1800 laptop is a pitifully small (for the price range) 250GB hard drive and a 15" display? A 17" display is automatically worth twice the price of the cheapest competitor's products, and automatically withheld from all but the richest purchasers? Sane people are supposed to pay a $3-600 premium for the ridiculously failure sensitive MacBook Air just because Apple's too good to make a netbook?
If you go out and price the laptops against their PC competition, they currently only have ONE model that is even remotely price competitive - The very bottom end MacBook. Even it is only now competitive, after the addition of a real video card. Prior to that/back in '08, a range of Lenovos, HPs, and Asus laptops could be had with Nvidia 8*** series or equivelant ATi cards and a much wider range of screen sizes (12-17") for considerably less than the $1300 entry level laptop with a video card capable of handling more than a DVD.
There's a lot of truth to the accusations that they're price gouging or pricing on the basis of a non-existent perceived value in the laptop realm, and surely that makes up at least half of the computers they sell. It seems disingenuous to focus on their desktops and workstations, given how rarely one sees either.
RE:Fanboy bashing by another fanboy
~Original author in reply~
First of all I am not from the UK so be very careful with your (ass)upmtions , including KDE and Gnome.
Now, lets analyse how a Mac is not a toy, shall we? Can you tell me what useful things it can do that a PC cannot do? Can you give me a list of very important applications that are exclusive to Mac and have no alterntive on Windows or Linux? Can you explain to me why it is so hard to set up an automated backup in windows? Can you explain to me why Apple markets their computers to people who cannot do simple things such as maintain their system? Can you explain to me why Apple now recommends an antivirus? Why they have such limited support for hardware with the excuse of keeping the system stable and still it crashes just as much as windows?(as a matter of fact it crashes more often). Can you tell me why if it just works, we have the all famous macfixit.com?
You know I can keep writting these questions forever. I would like to analyse a few things about windows and the user experience there before I got into deeper waters.
So let us assume you have windows vista on your new machine from dell. Lets us assume you got enough brain to figure out how to get a free antivirus such as avg. Let us also assume you are clever enough to type "backup" in the search bar in the start menu to find the backup wizard which is totally idiot prood but not "mac user proof" (a whole higher level of idiots). Vista defrags your hard disk automatically and will install security updates and restart automatically when you do not use the system. It also goes in sleep mode and recovers in less than 4 secs on any machine purchased in the past 3 years unless it was a piece of junk even back then.
So tell me at this point what more do you want as a user? The antivirus updates itself and so does the OS and most other applications that need updating. The firewall is working out of the box and of course the whole system is orders of magnitude more secure compared to a Mac as it takes more than 24 hours to hack it and even then only by phishing the user as opposed to less than 5 mins for a Mac with the system sitting idle.
So honestly, what more do you want? If you do not like media player for instance you can find hundrends of alternatives with a simple google search. Same goes for any application that comes with windows. So where exactly is your problem?
Now let's address the deeper stuff: The main difference here is the OS right? So Apple takes an ancient BSD kernel and turns it into the latest and greatest user experience which is fine given their atrocious record for updates this is not surprising at all. I guess there solution to the updates nuisance is to not update.
Anyway, first thing you learn about Operating Systems when you decide to study computer science or perhaps decide to do a little PhD like yours truly, is that it provides an interface between the hardware and the applications that the user wants. This means, the operating system is there to give you an interface to launch the applications you want to use. So what exactly is the Mac experience? Does it imply that the iDiots play all day with the operating system rather than do work on it? I cannot explain it otherwise. A user very rarely interracts with the OS and only does so to manage files or launch applications.
Now regarding the market share argument, it makes me wonder why Apple is not interested in market share as you put it. I mean seriously if they were not interested in market share they would not have made the iPod or the iPhone yes? I mean, as a business their primary goal is profits which means you need a market share or perhaps a few fanatical idiots. I suppose you could be right in a twisted non-sensical way but the fact of the matter is that they do not have market share because the market does not want to give it to them. Spare me the car analogies, I am trying to have a serious argument. You gotta realise that Apple will start gaining market share when they realise that a computer is not a car.
Finally, a few words for Linux: I am not a Linux fanatic and I use it because I need it for my research. It is a burden in many ways because it just makes it hard for me to install new applications but once everything is up and running the OS is transparent as it should be and hence why I do not understand what a Mac experience is. Anyway, the freetards as you call them are the ones moving this world forward in many ways. If Linux did not exist, I can guarantee you that a good amount of PhD projects and research in new technologies would either ceise or double the time to completion. It is kinda hard to advance this world when you cannot see what exists at the moment and that is where the open source code comes in handy for academics. Do you want to spend a few moments thinking of what would happen if suddenly all universities in the world had no access to source code for anything?
~Linux/WIndows user~
PS: just for laughs, do you remember the number of issues and how unhappy Mac users were with OSX Leopard? Remember great moments such as the infinite login screen and upgrades that never completed? Let's not forget that Apple is not really inventing anything. They are simply throwing existing technologies together and create a hype about it for all the iDiots to buy.
Had a look recently at the patent trolling from apple regarding automatic updates? A patent that goes along the lines of "a software update service that is transaprent to the user". Yes sit, they hold such a vague patent and more importantly there are no detailed specs or even a demo of it. Somthing like this would never pass in the EU but hey America is the patent troll's paradise right? I say Bill Gates is a million times better than Steve (hand)Jobs.
Don't tell me...why not?
Mark Johnson writes...Friend of mine just told me one of his iDrone buddies was going to go out and buy a Time Machine--err, Time Portal-- Time Capsule-- Overpriced Hard Drive in a Box....whatever the stupid thing is called. For $200, he was going to get a 500GB external HD. I can get a 1TB HD (even a Western Digital) for ~$100 just about anywhere from newegg.com to the local Best Buy. So tell me now, how is there not an Apple tax?
This is why it is difficult to talk to you tech-challenged baboons. Time Machine is part of the OS. You can use ANY hard drive!
It is better for the whole world to think you are a fool, than to put it in print and prove it!
Probably not the first...
But when looking at the price of a mac, it helps to also look at the resale value (macs have one). That pretty quickly evens things out.
Sold a 3 year old G5 in the summer for $1600 - a three year old dell? Good luck selling that.
The real tax
Paying $30/year for antivirus updates, and giving up 20-50% of your performance to run the antivirus software, listening to your disks thrash.
::rolls eyes::
All y'all are missing a very important point.
The ONLY reason to have a computer is to run software. So which computer is the "best" computer? Quite simply, it is the computer that runs the software you need to run!
At work, that is whatever software the shareholders deem important. At home, however, that is YOUR decision. YOU choose the machine that runs the software that you, personally, need/want to run. Thus the term "Personal Computer".
In other words, there is no "best" computer. Never was, never will be.
That said, all software sucks. All operating systems suck. All hardware sucks.
But most importantly, all fanbois suck ... Get over yourselves, you bunch of myopic idiots!
I Enjoyed This
I enjoyed reading this on my crapware-free, unencumbered, fast and flexible Linux machine.
this will backfire...
every time Microsoft mention the competition by name, people check it out and find it is better... this happened when Microsoft made the mistake of comparing file serving speeds with Linux servers... people then realised there was a cheaper solution out there that while not as fast, did what they wanted... unfortunately for Microsoft, Linux devs got off their butts and fixed the issues that caused the slowness...
Ignoring the Microsoft tax...
So, I kind of agree with those who say this article is essentially fanboiism. It is. The "lets find the most expensive way to make a PC comparable to a Mac" game (when they are not really comparable) is rather ridiculous. Macs ARE more expensive. The Dell has a *Quadro* card, a newer one at that, which ads absolute SACKS of money compared to a Geforce.. faster (and very much more expensive) memory.. more drive bays, and an expensive 10,000 RPM disk for starters.
But, whatever.
The MAIN amusement for me is that Microsoft would even hint at a "Mac tax" when the "Microsoft tax" is becoming an increasingly large percentage of the cost of a computer (computers are getting cheaper, the Microsoft tax is not). Particularly when there are very low cost alternatives such as Ubuntu available (I say "low cost" because I'm sure Dell's not getting the tech support from Canonical for free) Plus, the lower hardware specs required to run it allow for even lower costs.
@Mark Jonson
Apparently you haven't figured out that the Time Capsule isn't a USB external disk drive - it's a Gigabit ethernet switch, USB printer server, 802.11a/b/g/n wireless gateway, NAT router and NAS disk drive in one box. It's actually pretty handy on a Windows network too. Would you care to point out a non Apple solution that combines these features into one box? If not how about pricing in the separate components?
Fail
What could have been an excusably pointless "Corporate Entity Sponsors Not-Entirely-Accurate 'Research'" article rapidly descends into the kind of whiny bitching that should only be found on message boards, and even then only in threads that have been closed by the moderators. Maybe you should keep Mr Kay's contributions in the comments threads from now on.
RE:Fanboy bashing by another fanboy
Fifteen years ago, like you, I also decided to 'do a little PhD'. This was in biochemistry, thanks for asking. Anyway, at the time I ponied up a grand for a Macintosh Quadra 610. I've not looked back since.
Now, I realise I'm not a computer scientist like you, so I have relatively little understanding of these things, but surely the fact that I've never lost even an hour's work due to dodgy hardware, malware, driver conflicts or system reinstalls in the entirety of my Mac-owning career must count for something. I'm not knocking Windows - it's absolutely fine if you like that sort of thing. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole personally.
I would just like to say
that my penis is very large indeed. Thanks
Time Capsule was a solution to an OS problem
What about them having to build their special Time Capsule thingy because of Time Machine's inability to do backups to plain network Volumes (as first promised) without data losses?
@Steve Todd
>Would you care to point out a non Apple solution that combines these features into one box? If not how about pricing in the separate components?
How about a Freecom 28662? Not only is it a Gigabit ethernet switch, USB print server, with 802.11a/b/g/n with NAT router and NAS drive in one box, it also provides a builtin web and FTP server so that you can access the files remotely as well as host content (Time capsules only allow the former, and only using MobileMe). It's also 2 physical disks and a raid controller instead of 1, so you can configure automatic mirroring onto the two drives for redundancy (a HUGE plus for a device primary purpose is secure storage of data) or use them for max disk storage with no mirroring, an option not available on a Time Capsule.
Oh, its cheaper too.
hmmm
I dunno. The problem isn't that Apple don't make good machines, or that you have to pay for a good PC too. BUT: the problem is, I can buy a dual-core with 2 gig of ram for about £399. The cheapest Mac starts at about £1000. ie There is NO Mac equivalent to the (level above) entry PC. Why? To maintain the "exclusivity" factor, the "Mac's are a Porche" mantra. Which is obviously crap.
I like OSX, but I don't think it's cool. I'll start using Macs when either a) they release a £399 model thats as good (spec wise) as a £399 Dell or b) when they release OSX as a generic installable operating system. Otherwise - pay 3x for the same thing, just for the logo? Yeah right... and I bet these people pay 3x for their jeans just because of the logo too.
(I'm not an MS fan, or Mac hater. Agnostic. But be realistic here)
The Propaganda machine has beeen working overtime this week.
First this week they claim VMware has a virtualization tax now there is a cool tax. VMware went right after them and posted a response illustrating all the half truths and out right lies. If that wasn't enough they decide no one will notice and release this way to go Microsoft.
In contrast to the Microsoft tithe
Well, at least these days it's theoretically possible to be refunded the cost of Windows if I'm going to run FreeBSD or Linux on the machine.
There was a long long time when the only way you could sending money to Redmond was to buy all the components and assemble them yourself.
What about the MS tax
Microsoft trying to say someone else has a "tax"?
I'm no Mac bigot, but MS has been taxing everyone for years with over priced bloatware like Windows, Office, and .net.
Real
Speaking from Istanbul, I attest that Apple Tax is very real.
It does not matter a whit to me if comparably configured Vista box is competitively priced with an OSX box (or vice versa).
When a 1600 US$ Mac (in the U.S) is sold for about 2550US$ (in Turkey) while a $1200 Dell (again in the U.S.) can be had for around $1400 here - it's proof of Apple Tax. I don't care if the local distributor or Jobs Himself is the culprit; I only care about the number on the sticker.
The Apple Pax: Priceless
The Apple Tax: A dollar a day (at MOST)
The Apple Pax: Priceless.
==============
The Apple Tax: A dollar a day (at MOST)
The Windows Tax: A dolor a day
(Dolor: "sorrow, anguish")
@AC - for a claimed PhD
you make pretty poor arguments.
"Now, lets analyse how a Mac is not a toy, shall we? Can you tell me what useful things it can do that a PC cannot do? Can you give me a list of very important applications that are exclusive to Mac and have no alterntive on Windows or Linux?"
So being able to do the same things as a PC makes it a toy? By extension that makes a PC a toy also.
"Can you explain to me why it is so hard to set up an automated backup in windows? Can you explain to me why Apple markets their computers to people who cannot do simple things such as maintain their system?"
Making tasks easy to do makes the system a toy? This is from the same school of thought that says that it medicine can't be doing you any good unless it tastes nasty? The harder you make something to do the less chance the average user will do it. The average user (not PhDs) finds Microsoft backup to be inconvenient and hard to use (many external disk drives come with third party back software because of this).
"Can you explain to me why Apple now recommends an antivirus?"
If you were paying attention when that story came out you'll know the Apple page it came from is actually quite old. There are very few OS X viruses in the wild and you need to be quite careless to catch one. Apple seem to have been erring on the side of caution, OS X is not virus proof. It is however much more virus resistant than Windows (not assuming that all users have root access is a good start).
"Why they have such limited support for hardware with the excuse of keeping the system stable and still it crashes just as much as windows?(as a matter of fact it crashes more often)."
Firstly you lack statistical evidence that this is the case. In my personal experience Macs can run longer without rebooting and crash less often than Windows. Where is your data that proves otherwise? Without that it's just your word against mine (and I admit who I am).
"Can you tell me why if it just works, we have the all famous macfixit.com?"
ANY piece of software that is non-trivial contains bugs. How many PC web sites are there dedicated to PC issues? The existance of a Mac site does not prove that the PC is any better.
"The firewall is working out of the box and of course the whole system is orders of magnitude more secure compared to a Mac as it takes more than 24 hours to hack it and even then only by phishing the user as opposed to less than 5 mins for a Mac with the system sitting idle."
Yes, the firewall should be turned on by default (not that it's hard to do), but no, it takes way more than 5 minutes to hack it, and user action IS required. The PWN to OWN contest (to which I assume you are referring) ran over three days. On day one all computers were connected to the network in standard build and contestants were allowed to try to hack them. Nobody succeeded with any system. On day two contestants could get users to perform actions. A Safari bug gave the winner his way in when a compromised web site was viewed, but it took him weeks to craft the exploit and that hole has since been patched. Vista fell on day 3 when common third party software was loaded and a Flash security hole was exploited.
"Anyway, first thing you learn about Operating Systems when you decide to study computer science or perhaps decide to do a little PhD like yours truly, is that it provides an interface between the hardware and the applications that the user wants. This means, the operating system is there to give you an interface to launch the applications you want to use. So what exactly is the Mac experience? Does it imply that the iDiots play all day with the operating system rather than do work on it? I cannot explain it otherwise. A user very rarely interracts with the OS and only does so to manage files or launch applications."
This is the funniest part. The function of an operating system is many fold, as anyone who claims to have studied these things should know. At it's most basic it is to provide an abstraction layer between the hardware and the software. Above and beyond that it should provide common services (UI generally being one of them), allocate resources and provide the ability to launch applications. You seem to think that the OS is only responsible for launching applications, which is only tiny part of the advantage. Firstly OS X is better at allocating resources (it uses less RAM and CPU for it's self, manages power better, multi-tasks and multithreads better. Just look at the number folks on the web who have installed OS X on Netbooks because of this). Secondly once an application is loaded it is continually interacting with the user via the OS. OS X provides a richer, better set of common services for doing this (for example windows are generated as PDF pages and then handed to the OS to render, which can offload to the GPU if it is capable. No application input is required when moving windows or changing Z orders, resulting in snappier window performance. Windows couldn't do this until Vista Aero, it costs 512MB of RAM to turn Aero on, AND it can't do software rendering on lower end graphics cards). Thirdly once an application IS launched users usually want to switch between applications fairly frequently. Being able to organize your desktop into virtual workspaces and, on command, see all active applications in miniature but fully rendered form, makes this process quicker and easier to do (Aero's 3D switching doesn't really improve usability from <alt><tab> switching in Windows 3)
Fanboi article goes after another fanboi article.
First off let me just have a massive rant at El Reg for even bothering to post this rubbish nevermind making it front page news.
Secondly this whole article is just a Apple fanboi replying to MS fanboi. Both articles are totally wrong in thier conclusions and stir the bull shit to the extreme.
Tombstone because it's what Reg is after this.
Apple's Transmission Tax; Apple's Pax: Priceless
Here’s a slick TV-ad riposte to MSFT’s Apple Tax thesis:
Mac Guy: Whatcha got there, PC?
PC Guy: It’s my new car. Want to go for a spin?
Mac Guy: You’re on.
(They enter the car. PC Guy then uses four or five back-and-forths to get his car out of its tightly packed parking space, wrestling his steering wheel and heel-and-toeing with his clutch. Finally, they’re out.)
Mac Guy: No automatic? No power steering?
PC Guy: I’m not paying a transmission tax and a power premium?
Mac Guy: (Rolls his eyes and smiles ruefully. Fade out.)
===============
The Apple Tax: A dollar a day (at MOST)
The Apple Pax: Priceless.
Some things are priceless. For everything else, there’s Windows.
(Pax = peace)
==============
The Apple Tax: A dollar a day (at MOST)
The Windows Tax: A dolor a day
(Dolor: "sorrow, anguish")
@Alex - close, but no banana
The Freecom 28662 is 802.11b/g only (the Time Capsule runs n over 2.4(b) & 5GHz (a) simultaneously), and you need to be mad to risk exposing your private data on a public FTP server (FTP uses unencrypted authentication, plus port scanners will spot it in next to no time). Depending on where you look the Freecom can be more expensive in the 1TB size, and doesn't seem to be available in 500GB.
I would just like...
...to congratulate the AC at 09:29 on providing one of the most genuinely interesting contributions to this discussion. Well done.
Happy Easter!
You childish fucking dicks. Espesially the arrogant prick doing his phd. Hope you screw up your viva you loathesome turd. What an utterly pointless bunch of "my dick is bigger..." this has become. Linux boys. The adults are talking. Piss off.
This article is crap.
Im sorry... but the odds of finding a windows machine that actually comes with anything decent as far as programs or software is the likely hood you will NOT get infected with a virus in the first 10 minutes of being out of the box.
"Word" and Excel" are a part of the office suite which cost anywhere from 150 to 300 US Dollars.
People who whine about the price of the Mac should realize that they come with iLife '09 and for a scant 49 bucks you get iWork '09.
That's a fact... not a joke... top that off with Apple Mail.... and other useful applications which make windows look like trash.
If you don't like some of the apps you can actually <gasp> remove them and get your own.
Try doing that in windows.... yeah.. right.
El Reg should stop circling the Apple and start circling Microsoft as there caracass of an operating system starts to rot.
PS: NO apple is not perfect.... but this article is bullcrap. If your that picky... go build a bloody hackintosh and sahdup.
Seriously?
What sort of maladjusted twerp cares this much about what one shitty corporation does to another? After reading this discussion thread I'm a bit horrified. Neither Apple nor Microsoft (not Tux, for that matter) will love you and give you the human contact that most of you probably so desperately crave. In fact, they don't give the slightest crap about you. Probably shocking, I know. Your inanimate slab of laptop doesn't love back.
Get real. If you're going to argue about something, make it something that matters like human rights. Instead of standing around mocking each other from glass houses, try this: Don't comment. Just don't. Don't respond to tripe like this. Resist the urge to be passive agressive and just walk away. It's what normal people do.
Is this a record?
Oi el Reg jourons: is it a record? 130+ posts in about 48 hours?
Oh My God. . .
Is it really worth spewing so much bile, hate and contempt in support of or opposition to one's choice of computer operating system? Never underestimate the motivation inherent in Homo sapiens' "fear of the other." Seeing it spill over in something as trivial as this is just so sad.
Bottom line: Windows works just fine, as does OS X, various flavors of Linux, Solaris and the rest. If they didn't, they wouldn't stay in business for very long. Different companies evince different commercial strategies for bringing their products to market. That's what capitalism is all about. If the company's strategy, products and/or "message" is poorly implemented, the company will fail. This is why Microsoft continues to loose money in all market segments except for OS and Office software, in which it has the monopolist's advantage. Interestingly, Apple's business continues its double digit growth in all three segments of its business, computers, media players and phones. The only other tech company who has come close is IBM, which has a much different business model. I think any unbiased assessment of Apple's growth will have to concede that its success is based on more than just fad or cool factor. Apple sells very good kit, integrates it tightly with a suite of software that covers 90% of what the average PC user needs for his day to day computing activities, and provides customer support that often shames its competitors. Nothing succeeds like success.
Apple does not offer products for every market segment, nor do they claim to. You can say the same for BMW, Bang and Olafson, Barney's, Rolex, Versace, Vera Wang, Fabergee, Godiva Chocolate, and on and on. In some cases, you're paying for the label, in some cases you're paying for the quality, in many cases (as with Apple), you're paying for a bit of both. So what?
I have never really understood why people get so bent out of shape about these things. I have computers running OS X, Windows Vista, Ubuntu and Solaris. Some, I've purchased from Apple and Sun, some I've built myself. They are each purposed differently. They are all useful. They all work. There are things I like about each and hate about each and until the day comes when operating systems can be fully customized to user demand the way hardware can be (sorry penguin fanatics, but Linux still has too many missing puzzle pieces, especially with drivers and games), this will continue to be the case. The ONLY reason to diss another person's choice of computer is to feel smug and superior yourself. Not too flattering.
As regards Macs, they are not for everyone, particularly if you have a constrained budget. The consumer on the cheap will be able to get a functional machine that will meet one's basic needs. That said, the purchase will represent a compromise, the limitations of which may or may not start to irk the purchaser after a while. For me, that sort of compromise is fine in a virtual throw away type computer, like a netbook, but unacceptable for the machine that I spend hours in front of on a daily basis. A Jumbo Jack with onion rings and a Coke is cheap filling, and tasty, but I don't expect it to fill my dining needs day in and day out. Similarly, dinner at the French Laundry in Napa is a life affirming, eye-opening experience, but who has $500 to drop on a dinner tab several times a month. Certainly not me.
I tend to prefer macs for my heavy lifting because they run all of the scientific software that I use in my research (half of which have NO windows equivalent notwithstanding the assertions of many windows fanbois that there are "hundreds" of apps available for any purpose under Windows); Mac OS X is more stable, is easier and more intuitive to use, and is more attractively rendered (aesthetics are important); my iMac and Mac Mini are based on laptop components and draw significantly less power than my Windows desktops; my macs take up less space, require fewer cables and are less environmentally obtrusive than my HP and Sony desktops.
As regards the Apple Tax, all I can say is what my grandmother used to say when confronted with nonsense: pshaw! Yes, you can get a cheaper computer that is functionally similar. Yes, the legion of Windows PC makers offering a dazzling array of configuration for purchase, Apple offers less than 20 (not counting build to order configs from the Apple Store. Yes, most people will be content with their Windows machine purchase. Apple designs and markets to narrow segments of the overall computer market place. That makes them neither good nor bad, simply selective in the way that other upscale companies are selective in the market segments they choose to enter. If one compares products within relevant markets (the way the Feds do in anti-trust cases), then Apple's products are priced similarly. I see a lot of people making "functional" substitutions in supporting their Apple tax arguments, but these are bogus if one's intent is to compare products that compete in the same market segment. For example, you can't say my Core i7 is significantly cheeper than Apple's choice of a Xeon processor and then cry Apple tax. You have to use the same componants in the same configurations. When this is done, it's clear there is no Apple tax. This article is merely one of several that I've seen recently, and they all come to the same conclusion, Apple machines are similarly, and often more cheaply, priced than other computers in the same market segment.
I'll finish by pointing out two additional factors that militate in favor of macs. Support and resale value. With regard to support, Apple is the sina qua non. Two years ago, I had to return my iMac for service because the power supply had blown out. I was doing research as a visitor away from home, and the computer went down about a week before my return. They repaired the machine in plenty of time, but scratched the front panel rather badly in the process. Problem was, those panels were on back order and not expected back before I was due to leave. So instead, Apple replaced the entire machine with a next generation model having a faster processor and larger herd drive (this on a three year old machine). Three weeks ago, I careless knocked my wireless keyboard to the floor, resulting the pop off of the F5 key. It didn't really affect the operation of the keyboard, it was just unsightly. I took the keyboard in the my local Apple Store to see if they could replace the lost key. They couldn't because the tongs used to seat the key were too bent. So, without any prompting from me, they pulled a new keyboard off the shelf, extracted the keyboard and handed it to me as an exchange. I sincerely doubt there are many Dell, Lenovo, HP, or Sony fans out there who've had these sorts of experiences with their respective customer service reps.
Another point routinely missed in the Apple Tax debate is the hidden Apple rebate that comes with every machine. Macs retain their street value much longer than other PCs. I just sold a 2001 PowerBook (1.25 Ghz G4, 100 GB hard drive and 2 GB of RAM for $1000. That's roughly 40% of the original cost. I sold a year old MacBook for $800, representing 70% of my original investment. Thus, I am able to trade up every three or four years with the knowledge that I'll be able to cut the cost of my new computer by 40-70% through the resale of the computer being replaced. My Windows PCs go to relatives or even the landfill because no one wants to buy a three or four year old Dell or HP. Granted, your initial investment may be higher than you might pay for that cheap, on sale laptop at Best Buy or Office Depot, but once the purchase is made, you can relax in the knowledge that your initial investment can be recovered over and over again as you sell the old to pay for the new.
I wanna post
it seems like everyone else is.
I don't have a mac, but everyone else in my family does. I have to concur with someone way further up:
Mac for productivity (maybe I'll stick KDE on there too!)
Linux for server/cool tricky stuff/extreme gui control
Windows for games
As far as "there's no such thing as a better computer" goes, I have to disagree. Despite the really irritating lack of a delete key, the macbook multi-touchpad makes it superior to all others for typical laptop (mouse-less) use. This isn't a criticism of MS, because they don't make laptops, but it is a down-side in running an MS OS, which can't be fixed as far as I know.
The iMac also gets kudos for "its quiet and pretty enough I can put it in my lounge which I can't do with my hideous dell and maybe I can even use it instead of a TV." Is it a "better" computer? That will depend on requirements, but I do care if my hifi is beautiful enough to be seen and ditto any computer which might be visible. Also, I could run windows or linux on it if I wanted to.
Time machine: simple automated backups which any gui noob could use? Yes I could use rsync, but most people not only wouldn't, but couldn't. How much are all those photo's worth to you? iLife - not free but if you'd use it, price up the windows equivalent before you buy your hardware.
drivers & The French Laundry
"sorry penguin fanatics, but Linux still has too many missing puzzle pieces, especially with drivers and games"
Drivers are no longer an issue in Linux, at least for for the most part, just like Windows & Apple. Games are a waste of time and money (he says, replying to a post in the "comments" section of an ElReg article ...), however there are plenty of games available for Linux. NetHack, anyone? Wumpus? Adventure? ;-)
"Similarly, dinner at the French Laundry in Napa is a life affirming, eye-opening experience, but who has $500 to drop on a dinner tab several times a month."
TFL is in Yountville (pronounced "yont"), not Napa. I know, the wife & I lived about three blocks from it for about a year when we were waiting for our ranch to close escrow. The prix fixe menu ($240/seat, +wine) is pretentious, contrived and boring, with tiny portions. We had both the chef's menu & the vegetarian menu and shared. It did look pretty, the prep folks are quite gifted. Everything was perfectly cooked. The 9 course meal, spread out over several hours, consisted of about 30 small bites of food. The wine was hideously over priced, and even the corkage fee is astronomical, at $50/cork. After eating there (once!) we immediately walked home and made dinner. We were starving! I would not recommend eating there, unless someone else was paying for it. I will say that the staff were the best I've ever seen, very attentive and yet not obtrusive. If you need anything, they are there in an almost telepathic manor ... but you can't see 'em otherwise. We could have gone to Compadres down the street and saved about $700 (Compadres lost their lease and had to move, Compadres Rio Grill is now on the river in Napa and well worth a visit if you are touring Wine Country).
Re: Is this a record?
There should be additional weighting for it being:
a) the weekend
b) a weekend bracketed by public holidays in the UK which are aimed at celebrating a creed of loving one another (ooh, bit of religion there, controversial), although I strongly suspect that there's every likelihood of the combatants in the Middle East setting aside their differences way before we see any resolution to this frankly ridiculous, pointless and tedious ongoing debate. Although nobody ever died due of their choice of OS [cue pedants with stacks of examples of people who DID die due of their choice of OS]
I love this sort of article...
All these fanboy igniting articles are great, too bad I don't have enough time in my extremely lazy day to read what all the morons had to say. I think I scrolled past a couple individual comments that were longer than the entire article...
I mostly can't stand advertising from either side of this battle, since these newest MS ads aren't any worse than plenty that Apple have released over the past couple years. Thus I am glad of 2 things:
1) I watch very little TV.
2) I can just build my own machines spec'd to whatever I need, and install Slackware. Thereby avoiding the Apple, MS, Dell, etc taxes and all the irritating crap that comes along with them.
Now back to your ususally scheduled flamings.
Okay, so what next?
I happen to like both Apple's and Microsoft's stuff and so on a more positive note:
Maybe the profile awareness campaign might have considered:
Being all things to all people is not easy. But at Microsoft we love challenges.
Apple tax?
... why not, the UK is taxed for everything else - it's only a matter of time before Brown stumbles upon this idea himself!
Microsoft and Apple sitting in a tree
You do know that Microsoft employees are eligible for the Apple employee discount on all Apple hardware and software? These companies are so in bed together they must laugh in the face of your fanboi-dom, whichever side of the fence you sit.
re: drivers & The French Laundry
Wow, that's the longest off-topic rant I've ever seen on El Reg.
What I want to know is, did the restaurants billing system run on OS X or Windows, and if so, were either of them as over-priced as the food?
So bored with this argument
Let's get this straight, absolutely nobody hates Macs or think that they are sub-standard or even necessarily overpriced compared to the PC.
What they do hate are the pious, smug, snotty bastards who bang on about mac superiority all the time. It's rare that you'll find a PC user starting this hoary old argument, are Mac users insecure about something or just obnoxious fanboys?
I'd love a Mac, but I am forced to use a PC because of the software i use. Besides, I really like to tinker with my computers, that is my hobby.
security and solidity are no 'Apple Tax'
How about when one enters security and solidity into the equation?
Here's some essentials :
1. How NSA access was built into Windows
Careless mistake reveals subversion of Windows by NSA.
by Duncan Campbell 04.09.1999
http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/5/5263/1.html
2.(copy of page 158-159 from "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael C. Ruppert)
http://crashrecovery.org/forrestal/us-army-unix-s.jpg
The Windows Operating system running on the subjects computer has become the cornerstone where upon NSA and today Homeland Security hookup a essential part of their surveillance technology and tactics. Google is the topping, or capstone if you like, on this pie. if you run a Mac, you might have ponied up the Mercedes Benz Star dollars, but at least the Windows flaws into your personal security and privacy are then gone. Security and solidity should be seen as value adding features. Microsoft's 'Apple Tax' story is bull.
Robert
--
Robert M. Stockmann - RHCE
Network Engineer - UNIX/Linux Specialist
GT120---- ?
that's a gtx9800.. a card that is currently going for 125 retail.. where the dell has a top of the line 295.. which is around 400$ retail..
I know you sleep with a loc of steve's non-existant hair under your pillow.. Go pet it.
Mac Book Mini
Should we factor hackintoshing into the equation? I would make things far funnier. For all my MacMartyrdom (to avoid WinMartyrdom: to each one their own) rants, I know there is a MacBook Mini (EeeMac, Macspire, Makoya, Macsung or whatever, specially if the geeks manage to hack an Ion-based one) in my future. :D
Why Pander
"Anything which puts stupid people off buying a Mac gets the thumbs up from me. The last thing the Mac platform needs is to have to pander to stupid."
Why would they pander? Job's has already gotten so good at getting the stupid to want what he tells them to.
Microsoft has hired a fiction writer ...
Ah, that'll be the same fiction writer who scripts up M$'s description of their products then. Its a shame that M$ cannot fight their competition with simple fact when fiction and lies make for a better story.
Not sure Gates would allow this - it has all the hallmarks of nasty Ballmer. Watch him cause M$'s reptuation ruination.
This topic is closed for new posts.
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