Report: Legalising drugs would save UK plc huge packet New research has confirmed a reality which is obvious to many, but which can seldom be acknowledged in British mainstream politics: that it is primarily the fact of drugs being illegal which makes them so damaging to society. Furthermore, if drugs were legalised - even assuming a huge increase in their use - the public purse …
To all who like the idea of prohibition:
We have a problem with obesity in this country, especially childhood obesity. One way to reduce obesity levels would be to reduce the consumption of fatty fried foods. So let's suppose that we successfully lobby the government for a ban on the cooking and eating of chips.
Today, the chip industry is regulated. Chip shops have to satisfy certain minimum standards enforced by local environmental health authorities; including safe working practices, proper food handling procedures, regular inspection of premises and equipment, and so forth.
Can you tell me with a straight face that once chips were banned, a black market would not spring up almost overnight to meet the demand? Do you expect that there would not be a speck of fallout from the new, illegal chip industry? Do you honestly imagine that there would not be a single fatal electrocution, carbon monoxide poisoning or fire attributable to a poorly-maintained frier in an "underground" chip shop? That there would be no cases of poisoning from unsafe food handling practices or the use of home-made vinegar substitute? That the countryside would not end up becoming polluted through the improper disposal of used cooking fat?
And do you really believe that such a situation (chips still quite readily available, but from criminals at inflated prices and with greater health risk to chip-eaters , and with collateral damage impacting on non-chip-eaters) would be preferable to the situation we have now?
Yes, making drugs legal will help, it will boost industry, create jobs, result in fewer criminals and open up legitimate trade routes with a number of third world countries.
"Yeah man that is cause drugs are cool, no that is because alcohol is “legal” you change drugs status to legal and you would see problems of epidemic proportions."
How do you know that? Why do you seem to think that everyone is going to immediately go out and get themselves out of their heads on any kind of drug? Do you think everyone (except yourself of course) are mindless zombies unable to stop themselves? You lackwit.
"Sick to death of the cannabis is harmless, absolute garbage if you’re smoking it your doing 5x the amount of damage to your body smoking ciggies would, me and my buddies all started on the d’herd, 3 died chocking on their vomit within feet of each though over the space of a year , 2 died of heroin overdoses, 2 committed suicide, 1 crashed his car into a motorway stanchion believing the MI5 where chasing him, and 2 where murdered."
I call bullshit on this one, not only that, but you seem to have confused facts with opinion, and the 2 that were allegedly murdered, is that drug related? Is it because they were dealing with nefarious types to obtain illegal drugs perhaps? I can't exactly see the guy behind the counter at boots leaping over the counter to stab some junkie because they pinched a couple of hits of drugs. Perhaps also those overdoses may have been less likely if they'd known exactly what they were taking and how much. Choking on their vomit eh? Nice, what was that from? A bad burrito? You fucking knob, people vomit all the time without dying and without taking drugs, people die from choking on their vomit from alcohol poisoning.
If your alleged friends (I don't believe you've ever had any) were able to be educated and the substances were controlled rather than prohibited there would have been fewer deaths from the sample you have provided.
Of course, what with it being illegal it still fucking happened you dickhead, even if it were true, how would legalisation have made it worse? There is no "worse" than dead.
Drug driving is a problem, as much as drink driving, it could be policed in a similar manner though also it allows education and limits to be placed.
"Cannabis in my opinion is one of the worst drugs as it is sneaky and insidious" your opinion is wrong.
"it does 5x the amount of damage than smoking does alone and often leads to nastier things"
that's your opinion confused with fact again and once again wrong.
"but this one example a mine would no drive 50 miles to his uncle funeral because he said he could not afford the petrol , but later that night he drove a 90 mile return trip to pick up a bag of weed, and their lye’s the problem with weed it comes before everything include self."
He wasn't particularly close to his uncle and didn't want to go to a boring depressing funeral (who can blame him, those things are dull) so he lied about not being able to afford the petrol, big fat hairy deal, nothing to do with the weed you knobcheese.
"What we have now is unfortunately is as bad as we should let it get, the problems with both alcohol and drugs is that there are a large number of disaffected young people who have no interest in life bar getting wasted as they don’t see them self as part of our society , that is the problem mr silly coward no hope no options so what you are saying is adding the option of legal drug will solve our nations problems …your sir are a fool ."
1. Are you suggesting that the reason for why there "are a large number of disaffected young people who have no interest in life bar getting wasted as they don’t see them self as part of our society" - and that this is because of drugs? - So these "disaffected young people" would not be disaffected if they had no access to drugs? I would have thought that perhaps one significant reason for using drugs might be found in the experience of personal frustration and dissafection? At least this is not unknown in discussions about alcoholism - inability to cope with the personal situation in life etc. We also know that people who are experiencing extreme frustration and dissaffection in life are well represented among those who suffer from a "nervous breakdown" - no drugs necessary. Mental instability and extreme stress can be found as an influential factor when it comes to violence etc drugs not required here either.
2. I did not suggest that legalising drugs would solve our nations problems. Please do not put words in my mouth and read what I actually did write! I would argue that the criminalisation of drugs did not solve our nations problems - that is however a different argument. What I am against is the naive agenda which promotes the very simplistic idea that if drugs are not available our societal problems will dissappear! I do think that such an argument is a completely nonsensical one. The problem with drugs is yet another issue which is being oversimplistically dealt with both by many of those who are for drugs and by many of those who are against. There are problems and the solution to them is not as simple as making drugs illegal or legal. The underpinning problems need to be dealt with as the use of drugs themselves are more often than not a symptom of much wider problems.
3. I am against the lazyness that often is demonstrated in these discussions. The issue is a complex one and the solution is not simple. I am also against the idea that treating the symptoms is the appropriate long term way forward. Some people do not want to engage in the real world as it would require effort and resources - they prefer their own personal simple solutions which they think would make the world "a better place". No matter if those "solutions" have proven themselves not to be working. I am against the idea that more of the same will "fix things" - I may very well be a fool - but I do not think that existing strategy is satisfactory or worth while my support.
I still don't see what point you are making. You had a lot of mates who died, but drugs were already illegal.
What are you proposing? Making them *more* illegal? Stiffer sentences?
If so, it's already been tried. China has the death penalty for drug offences (and many other offences) and guess what - they execute people by the truckload and it still doesn't stop them.
puff last post sadden by the stupidity and ingnorance of some of the cowards, again another coward surrprise.
"clean drugs"
what are you on about , most herion user's that are killed by herion overdoses die because it is to pure and not contaiminated , know what your talking about before you post crap.
Oh and sure legal drugs are all fine nobody every dies of sleeping pil overdose's..ah that is right 75% of people who die from drug overdoses in this country are from legal drugs, check national the office of statistics.
and overdoses are not the problem consumption is and making it cheaper, which is a myth just like weed in amsterdam, black market weed is cheaper not most costly .
let me reinforce this for one last time we are meant to live in the first world yet in some of the poorest areas in our country life expectancy for young men is dropping to under 40? some third world countries have a better life expectancy than this,
quote
"But by far the most damaging aspect is not the drug at all - it's the chaotic lifestyle that accompanies trying to pay for a very expensive substance"
No the damaging aspect is the deprived and no porspect lifestyle that leads to drugs, drugs are a symptom not the problem so time to wake up , addicts had lifestyle before drugs and that is what lead them to drugs, not drugs leading them to a lifestyle...unless your rich or middle class.
WTF - "puff last post sadden by the stupidity and ingnorance of some of the cowards, again another coward surrprise" - that makes less sense than amanfromMars
heroin supplied by pharma companies would have stated known doses, this results in less chance of unintentional overdose. People can overdose sure, but as you've already stated 75% of people who die from drug overdoses are from legal drugs, I would hazard a guess that most of these types of fatalities are called "suicides" you may have heard of them, that's illegal too, something I always found most bizarre.
"No the damaging aspect is the deprived and no porspect lifestyle that leads to drugs, drugs are a symptom not the problem so time to wake up , addicts had lifestyle before drugs and that is what lead them to drugs, not drugs leading them to a lifestyle...unless your rich or middle class."
How about following a different train of thought in that drugs are a medication rather than a symptom, there will always be people who see themselves as lonely/deprived/no prospects, it's part of the human condition, perhaps you should stop treating them like fucking criminals and idiots, I would expect that would make them feel better in itself.
I'm going to have to give up now because you're a Troll and I shouldn't be feeding you.
If your capacity for comprehension were to come anywhere near your desire for belligerence, we might get a bit further...
> what are you on about , most herion user's that are killed by herion overdoses die because it is to
> pure and not contaiminated
Actually, no - most overdoses occur because the user is shooting up on his own in some shitty little hovel without knowing what he's actually taking. But that's not the point.
But if you read my post - even the few words you quoted - you'll see I said "clean drugs". I didn't mention purity or concentration - I'm well aware that 100% Heroin would then to be more problematic than it's worth. But a little attention to detail would tell you that there's a world of difference between the words "clean" and "pure".
> know what your talking about before you post crap.
Perhaps you'd like to revisit that little sputum of vitriol, given that it was based on an entirely incorrect and somewhat arrogant premise.
> and overdoses are not the problem consumption is
Yes. That's why a number of us here are attempting to promote safer consumption. Take a look at your claimed list of dead friends & see how far attempts to *prevent* consumption actually got.
> No the damaging aspect is the deprived and no porspect lifestyle that leads to drugs, drugs are
> a symptom not the problem
You have no evidence for that - and I'm pretty sure you can't find any, because I'm pretty sure you're wrong; the problem with drugs is not that people take them, it's that they tend to be damaged when they become regular users. And that damage is almost always due either to injecting god knows what (because there is no quality control in the supply), or it's because their lives become especially degraded and degrading by virtue of trying to maintain that supply - both of which are easily fixed by controlled access to clean drugs.
Now you could argue - in fact, I think you have, although it's tricky to see through all that bile - that if people were happier to start with, they might not want druigs anyway. I wouldn't contend that - it might be right. So all you need to do is to find a way to make everyone on every sink estate so blissfully happy that they wouldn't dream of doing anything even slightly nefarious. Got a plan for that yet? In the meantime, expect people to use narcotics (both legal and illegal) recreationally - as they have done for millenia.
And as for why I'm posting anonymously? Because I know a lot of people who use drugs. And, given that my name is somewhat less commonly found than yours, it might be possible to identify my social group from what I say here. Now I understand that anonymity is not going to protect me from a serious attempt by law enforcement types to discover my identity, but it does at least stop possibly embarrassing revelations to casual readers.
wow
@richard
has your dealer gone on holiday and left with not kit, or are you the usally joint smoking waster spending your whole life defending something that is robbing you of actuall expriencing life.
somking 1 joint of green with no filter is the euqivelent to 5 gigges, somking hashish with no filter get that times by 2 , so start studying up on lung cancer, ephazimna etc beacuse they will become your friends ..you might have a great pair of kidneys but no lungs
FYI
The 2 lads that where murder , where behead in thialand on the opimun trail by some bandits or rebels , the 3 boys the choked to death all died taking temgeisic or jellies(legal sleeping pils) as we call them up mix it with booze or weed it is most leathal , the 2 lads the die of Overdoses 1 was most likely suicide as he blame himself for his younger cousins demise. and the chap that crashed his car had taken ounce of speed in the form of quater balls and had forgotten to eat anything for 3 days.
quote
"He wasn't particularly close to his uncle and didn't want to go to a boring depressing funeral (who can blame him, those things are dull) so he lied about not being able to afford the petrol, big fat hairy deal, nothing to do with the weed you knobcheese."
when you grow up a get pubic hair,you migth just get to understand stick to watch button moon or finger mouse growne up debates are not for you little man.
To all the others I am not saying i have any answers and in an ideal world yes there should be freedom of choice, but until we address the issues of poverty and social depravtion within or communites, legal drugs is a no go that will just destroy more lifes. the status quo is no ideal but by far it is better the alternatives
It would seem that from the account you give, your friends were unbelievably unlucky.
If smoking cannabis was generally anywhere near *that* dangerous, dealers would rapidly be running out of customers, and we'd have rather more than the distorted "It's 10x stronger than it was 10 years ago" arguments coming up every 10 years when it comes to discussions over the the classification.
>>"what are you on about , most herion user's that are killed by herion overdoses die because it is to pure and not contaiminated , know what your talking about before you post crap."
People die of overdoses not because drugs are pure, but because drugs are *unexpectedly* pure - they're used to watered-down stuff, and can OD if they get anything decent and don't try it out for strength before taking their regular dose.
One of the points about clean drugs is not only that they're not full of Christ-know-what, but that they are of predictable strength, and therefore much harder to OD on unless someone mis-measures them.
It's even *harder* to overdose if someone is getting a daily prescription (to avoid the chance of them selling anything), and harder still if they take their daily dose in a centre under supervision.
>>"Oh and sure legal drugs are all fine nobody every dies of sleeping pil overdose's..ah that is right 75% of people who die from drug overdoses in this country are from legal drugs, check national the office of statistics."
I think you're deliberately conflating accidental overdoses and suicides, which are, of course, completely different things.
>>"addicts had lifestyle before drugs and that is what lead them to drugs, not drugs leading them to a lifestyle...unless your rich or middle class."
So, they were serial shoplifters, burglars, and prostitutes making a decent income that they *didn't* spend on drugs, and then decided to blow it all and start a smack habit?
I'm sorry for your long list of losses.
But you still haven't explained how keeping illegal drugs illegal helped those people.
In fact it sounds from your accounts like some of them died specifically because of the legal situation and the associated lack of help or information. They stayed underground, took impure substances, dangerous cocktails, got involved with criminal organisations.
Some of it (driving on speed) was just plain stupid, sorry.
Some of your friends (if a single word of your story is true anyway) would still be alive today in a different legislative climate.
Let me spell this out to you one last time - regardless of the health implications, regardless of what you think is moral or not, regardless of what you think is a good idea or not - prohibition is doing more harm than good. Even to the people in your stories.
It's a real, terrible human tragedy that so many of Alexander's young friends died, while doing crazy young man stuff, while under the influence. Perhaps some of these people would have benefited from institutional care. But many would be drawn further into drugs in prison. Perhaps some other type of rehab?
Emoting on this subject, although completely human and understandable, does not fix the situation.
· Social change could fix the problem. That would be education and proper rehab.
· Controlling the drug supply could fix the problem. Gov'm't could intervene in the market.
Thusly, the choice is down to intervening on supply or demand side. Either you intervene on the demand side, which means driving down demand through education, or punitive punishments for drug use. This approach is currently being used, and is not very effective. The other, largely untested as yet method, is to intervene on the supply side. Attempts to close down the coca growers in Columbia are only moderately successful, and depend on local cooperation. But if the government intervenes in drug supply market directly, through licensed distribution of safely manufactured drugs, then users only have to be able to read the label.
Viagra increases heart rate and body temperature, just like E, but nobody calls for that to be banned. Night club proprietors should be required to train staff to deal with overdoses. If addicts go to Boots to get their fix, their details can be recorded for the NHS. If the government and NHS get involved in the drug world, then at least the worst users can be registered, recorded, monitored.
At least try out the scheme in a controlled environment.
The authorities already distribute clean needles and condoms. Now they should distribute drugs that will not kill anyone. And the police can concentrate on making sure no-one drives while under the influence. The government and drug companies will make oodles of cash, and users can look forward to a spread of new substances that make you see like Picasso, or Vermeer.
Everyone a winner!
You are smoking weed. Not weed is smoking you. That's what my dad told me once some time ago.
If one moves from hemp to opiates, he probably masturbates too much. Did Bob Marley masturbate too much? I guess not, because he was a positive mood itself, women just piss hot about people of such kind. Ask me how I know that (-: ?
Generally, a very provocative article it was... it's great to see there are so many comments here. Though that right now there is night, cognac, sliced lemon and chocolate in my case. IT's bad that you can't smoke this screen... again re-addressing to http://rutube.ru/tracks/312579.html?v=cc388a9e954054e9111417b72e7dbc1b , enjoy everybody.
I'd say again that every sleek dolphin which you move through the vein is 99 % lethal shit. Only the strongest/the truly loved/the really positive may hold on using it once a month, but what a great punch at liver each injection is!
73
The biggest point, that alot of you liberal monkeys are missing is this:
Drug users, and the things that they are (being poor, unmotivated, robbers, w/e stereotype you get spoon fed from the idiot box) are not so much a result of them using drugs, but more the very cause of it. I'm not saying getting stoned makes things better, usually, it disables some particular component of your consciousness, causing erratic (and quite enjoyable) effects, often amplifying social problems in people with problems to begin with. But like alcohol, I do believe that when moderated and used responsibly, it can be just another recreational option, instead of some sinister evil in our society.
On top of that, this "war on drugs" has done little but waste tax money, and drive people into the circles of criminals. Because they are illegal, drugs tailor to those who are disenfranchised with society or the current authority they are under. Its one more way to give it the finger, and have a bit of out-of-your-mind "fun" in the process.
If you take away the evil label (and that's a pretty much impossible battle because all these morons are die-hard against that, 30-years of government programming will do that), and useless policy, you will effectively change the nature of the whole beast. On top of taxing it (getting money from it, instead of wasting money combating it all-out), a change in the public will occur. People, who drink recreationaly, are typically educated enough in the subject to keep it at that level. I believe the same can be achieved with drugs. Or at least some of them. Cannabis is one that really sticks out. Its less toxic than alcohol or tobacco, yet, for some weird reason, its a bad drug? Inconsistent, and quite honestly, just moronic.
The MPs know this is the only viable solution. The problem is that none of them want to be seen as 'soft'. Nevermind the fact they are all a bunch of sponges which are inherintely soft anyway.
Theres also the fact that It wont work until the USA says so. If we broke away from all the conventions regarding drug (ab)use we would lose trade ties and the whole economic argument is blown into the water anyway.
Does anyone think the US will ever legalize drugs? - IRAN CONTRA is still happening. Why is heroin now rife in Afghanistan after the Taliban wiped it out?
Drugs also make an excellent propaganda piece- the commies, Muslims, <insert enemy here> are flooding our streets with poison and killing the kids!
btw you can find this report on the BBC website, but only in Mark Eastons blog. It seems it wasnt newsworthy enough to make the main headlines. It seems that 'High speed sex in Norway' is more important than saving the UK economy billions. figures.
smiley icon as it would be great if e's were as good as back in the early rave era.
Get governments to supply all drugs? The idea that the state or government should do this or that is flawed. The government should have a 'hands off' approach to everything, leave people to decide for themselves, just because the governments says murder is wrong and punishable it does not stop murder, and if the government stopped punishing murderers would it increase cases of murder?
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