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back to article Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP

The British National Party has pulled off a bit of a blinder by fronting an anti-immigration campaign with a poster featuring a Spitfire belonging to 303 Squadron of the RAF - the "most effective Polish squadron during the Second World War", as the Telegraph puts it. The BNP poster showing Polish Spitfire A spokesperson at the …

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Anonymous Coward

Wheeling out history

Wheeling out history as a justification for current policy is getting a bit tiresome. The Poles fought from here because they were a little short of airbases on their own soil, not any great desire to defend Britain. It's not a comment on Polish heroism or current immigration, just fact shorn of the emotive , flag waving bilge.

Using previous historical allegiances as a guide to how we should relate to countries in the present is hardly useful. The Russians were one of our most useful WW2 allies, yet we spent most of the years since in a Cold War with them and a general state of huffiness in recent times. The Serbs; great wartime allies who just happened to turn into murdering, ultra-nationalist pricks at the mere mention of an 800 year old tiff with the Turks over which we ended up bombing them. If we stuck to history as foreign policy guidelines we'd be bombing the Italians for giving us civilisation at the sharp end of a ballista. We've fought the French more times than anyone else, yet we're (slightly begrudgingly, admittedly) matey with them these days, probably even more so with the Germans.

You're supposed to learn from history, not cherry-pick it when it suits your social engineering needs.

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@Mr Konzicki

£80 a day is exploitation? £80 a week would be exploitation. £80 a day would be a VERY good wage (for anywhere outside London.) Effectively, after tax, I pull in perhaps £50 a day.

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@ Ashe

You want to get a better job mate!

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J
Pirate

Correlation and causation

"the fruits of islam are the same everywhere it roots: sexism, racism, fascism, homophobia, corruption, widespread acceptance of lunatic behavior and inevitable regression"

Nooooo... Picked this quote, but there are several comments here making the same mistake.

You see, I'm an atheist and all religions are equally bad to me in principle, so I have no reason to defend this or that one. But it is clear that the mistake you are doing is to think that being Muslim is the cause of the bad traits you guys mention. **It is not!** The social, political, cultural, economical circumstances of the countries are the cause. If right now every single religious person in the UK just changed their religion to Islam, but didn't change in any other way, you would see no significant change in your society.

Not all Muslim countries have terrorists, in case you haven't noticed. Not all of them behave the same way. And not all Muslims in all countries do either. I have friends here in the US who are Muslim, born and bred in Virginia. They are nothing like you mention. They are just as good and bad as the rest of Americans of any belief system (or lack thereof). They drink alcohol but don't eat pork. They had sex before marriage but think Jews are not to be trusted. The wives work (some of the wives are not Muslim, by the way) and almost none uses any special attire unless it's some ceremony.

You see, they are not the stereotype people love to hate. Once their societies develop on their own, liberties and tolerance will also come.

Just read a Bible to see it's basically the same thing as a Koran or whatever -- you can find justification for "Islamic deficiencies" there too, if you want. Religious views keep being changed to stay adequate to the current societal views, and so it will always be.

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Bronze badge

@Ashe

I stand corrected; it surely is well above minimum wage. Next time I will use my calculator.

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Happy

Correlation and causation By J

From one Atheist to another...

Precisely and very well said.

"The social, political, cultural, economical circumstances of the countries are the cause."

Which, if not very well rounded or supportive of the human condition, leads to an increased population afflicted with general ignorance. General ignorance* is what religious dogma, any religious dogma, preys upon. Ignorance when combined with religious dogma led by an extreme zealot causes the fanaticism found in all religious beliefs and in all places in the world.

Illegal aliens should be deported promptly. There are LEGAL means to enter a country. Do try to follow the laws of the country you are living in.

*General Ignorance is the guy that lost the war in the battle for Humanity and Rationality.

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Anonymous Coward

Transport

Perhaps they want them to fly to Poland...

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I really wish people would try and understand the facts...

before posting utter drivel. Firstly, can we get past the idea of all immigration being the same, there's three types, illegal, asylum and economic, the first two are slightly related, but only because if you claim asylum you're no longer illegal. Economic migration is what covers most of the Poles/Eastern Europeans etc. who come here completely legally to work, are given jobs, support our economy and build our houses. If we didn't have Poles we'd be in a real state, however most of them do in fact live in proper houses, and are packed in tight. They're paying council tax, and at the same time are providing work without the need for more housing which UK builders would probably request. Jobs are a market, and unfortunately, we've got to the stage where people have expectations about how much a job is worth (in exactly the same way that people kid themselves about being able to afford hugely expensive houses on high mortgages). If people are offering to do it cheaper, they'll get the job, it's pretty straightforward that bit. We have a minimum wage for a reason, and if you're in a paid-hourly job there's nothing saying that a company can't take better value. Maybe you should reconsider your job choice, or start making cutbacks to fit in with the market.

Asylum seekers tend to genuinely have some sort of case, however we're pretty bad at dealing with them. They're given small amounts of food tokens to look after themselves and if their request is refused they're given £50 to get out of the country and told to leave. Most first applications are refused, but the numbers drastically change after appeal (presumably when a closer look is taken at them). Here's the thing, we have a huge backlog of asylum applications (and along the way some have been lost, so some people will never know about the result of their application because the state doesn't know who they are), and so it does take an inordinate amount of time to process them, which means some people have to wait around here for 5 years until they know what to do. The asylum system desperately needs a rethink, but the number of asylum seekers per person of the existing population in the UK (ie the proportion of asylum seekers to existing residents) is actually ranked 12th in Europe, so we're hardly being flooded by asylum seekers.

Illegals are another matter completely, and the government is slowly doing better at getting rid of them, however it's still a major problem and one that will always tarnish immigration as a whole, and needs fixing at some point, the BNP are not the way to do it though.

The BNP hold disgusting and hateful points of view, however I'm quite happy to defend their right to say it, as to the people who have said that they are left-wing, this appears to be some sort of brainwashing that is applied to the inner parts of the BNP. The definition of right-wing is a party or section of people who want things to stay the same or return to a previous time, a left-wing organisation seeks constant change from the norm or what has preceeded. This clearly makes the BNP + Hitler right-wing, and the worst kind. It's generally applied to racist organisations simply because the idea of reverting to a "pure" society suggests reverting to a time before immigration has taken hold.

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While we're on the subject of facts...

@Shakje (and others):

You have completely missed the point that the BNP is trying to get across. Nowhere have they objected to the Polish people or any other people for that matter. The objection here is the economic circumstance thats being perpetuated.

A common (and naturally completely wrong) attitude is "if they didn't do it, then nobody would" or "well the British people are too lazy to do it". This is so wrong is unbelievable, and demonstrates a disgusting failure to understand the British way of life.

We are NOT a third world country. We do NOT in this country decide that "3 rice bowls a day" (used metaphorically here) is adequate. The reason that most people are not doing the "dregs" jobs is not through laziness (although granted some people are just lazy) but because people simply can not subsist in this country on the wage offered.

I challenge anyone here to live in their own house with running water, electricity, telephone and a TV licence, paying council tax, rent and any vehicle costs (not to mention any loans) all from the wage offered to someone behind the counter of Macdonalds.It can't be done. It simply can't.

The tedious attitude here is "so find a cheaper solution, like house sharing, etc.". This is exactly what the Poles do. They house share. To extreme levels. They have the mindset to accept live in this appalling (sorry but that kind of cramming is appalling to me) state and thus a poor wage is acceptable. This is why Poles, Eastern Europeans, etc. are undercutting our jobs, because we simply do not have the ability to do the same jobs at OUR quality of life. As I said at the start, we are NOT a third world country.

Now the BNP is proposing that this practice stops. So that Britain is no longer an annex of Poland by virtue of all the low-age jobs being done by Poles while Brits who want to live in conditions where they have room to breathe sit on the unemployment list waiting for jobs that are harder to come by.

May I suggest anyone who thinks the BNP are racist do at least do some research first. I personally won't be voting for them on the grounds of their mixed-race and same-sex marriage policies, but I certainly support the idea of preventing Britain from becoming an annex of Eastern Europe.

With all this in mind, can the next article on the BNP please at least START from a neutral point of view, rather than presuming to be a piece on the Nazi party?

-- Richard

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Happy

I love this country

To be British today is to embrace the multicultural, multifaith nature of our citizens and residents. Life here has been enriched so much by the mix of cultures and languages, I would hate to have missed out on that. One of the things I like about the group of friends I have is that very mix of cultures, languages and faiths. This country would be terribly boring without them... In addition to which, many of them use their rights as citizens of the EU to move freely within the constituent countries. I appreciate the opportunity to choose where I live, and see no reason why the same should not be applied bilaterally. To be British is to be welcoming, and to be European is to rejoice in diversity. In varietate concordia!

Here endeth the lesson...

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Tom
Stop

@ SIMON HARPHAM

Take your name out of capitals, you should know how to present yourself with your obvious omnipotent grasp of the English dialect. Unless your name is ‘Stupid Ignorant Moronic Onanistic Male’

Bashing colloquially written comments takes no effort, done with wit may even produce mirth in your online peers, but dissecting line by line will make you look like a tosser.

Off to the pub on your own tonight by any chance?

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Expel the skham

If you want to solve the racism problem kick all the anglo saxons out of England. They've been nothing but trouble since they arrived and now they're involved in hate crimes and impotent wannabe terrorist organisations like the BNP. These inbred pasty slackers spend their time eating garbage food and drinking piss poor beers. When abroad and they drink full strength beers and proper measures of spirts they can't handle it, become terrified form a mob and proceed to moo out variations of the "in ger lahn" noise while attacking women and children.

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Flame

@Richard

I do not understand something : if people cannot live in this country on the minimum wages, how come they can live on dole? And, while we are at it, where do the money to pay the dole come from? I always thought it comes from taxes (and I pay fair amount each month), but maybe you have some insider knowledge to share. Lastly, myself and most Poles I know here do not share accomodation and live like anyone else - with their families. And making friends with our English (and other nationalities) neighbours, who are welcoming and plainly lovely people.

Well, I suppose I do not understand English way of life. I hope I won't learn it from you, though.

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Dex

<!-- No Comment --//>

Love them? Hate Them?.....i just don't give a shit, they're a "political party" and like every other political party thats ever been they'll fuck up....all the others have and some have even fucked up in power so really another one won't make any difference. You know what they should do? make all immigrants (legal and illegal) take a payable exam, they pay for the exam, those that can't pay walk the plank and with the moeny of those that do pay use it to clear national debt, i'm sure there are enough illegals in this county to clear the debt.

Personally, i hate foreigners, I'm not racist however......i hate everyone equally for different reasons.

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Heart

Wouldn't it be nice...

... if we could all get on together. You know, in perfect harmony like the keys on my pi-an-o keyboard?

Failing that, wouldn't it be nice if we could lynch BNP members on sight with impunity?

But we can't.

So the BNP will continue to spout poisonous filthy rascist lies about dagos, wops, wogs, yids, gyppoes, pakis, coons, krauts, pollacks, chinks and all the assorted riff-raff who make up - er - most of the people actually doing any bloody work round here (one of whom happens to be my daughter-in-law).

White working class? They vanished soon after the docks, coalpits and most of British industry was trashed by the tories. Now their progeny draw the dole, blame their ills on immigration and join the BNP.

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@ bnp having a point

Who would you rather vote for:

Hitler who tells you that 2+2 = 4

Ghandi who tells you that 2+2 = 5 and hopes your soul is happy.

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Not a Battle of Britain plane

303 Squadron flew Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain, not Spits.

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Fight Them on the Beaches...?

"Point or not, I will not stand by and watch a racist organisation become a viable political entity, and there are millions more like me."

...said an Anonymous Coward.. ROFL :)

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Anonymous Coward

@ David England

"wasn't the whole of World Word II a fight against right-wing nut jobs? A Messerschmitt 109 would be a more fitting symbol for the BNP."

Hitler was actually a socialist. He was also mad. The two go together quite well. Socialism is a pretty mad idea.

Hitler was against the jews because of the jews association with money & banking. Banking and other capitalist activities are seen by socialists as the root of all evil. Hence Hitler’s hate for them - as a socialist, he did not like them.

There are a lot of other things that make Hitler a socialist, his camps and movements like Hitler-Youth and the Secret Police and all those other things that he either started or endorsed and the general brotherhood culture. Like-minded people all sticking together and enemy's or anyone different either killed, sent to prison or forced to leave Germany. Possessions confiscated, ect, ect...

Personally I feel with what the press and the opposition say about the BNP it would be impossible for anyone with any sense to even consider voting for them. But the truth is, if you strip-away all of the anti-BNP propaganda you will see that some of what their saying occasionally has some logic to it - not that I agree with it... I am a libral and wouldn't want anybody to be forced to do anything... but it's fair to say the BNP are more than just a bunch of 'skinheads'. They are the nationalistic party. It's also worth pointing out that other nationalistic parties have been elected before (although not in this country's recent history) For example - SNP could be seen as a kind of Scottish BNP and they are persuading the Scottish people to vote for them in increasing numbers using the same kinds of arguments that the BNP put forward in this country - i.e. Scotland is for the Scottish and we don't want the English. So the BNP are not total idiots and it would be foolish to simply assume that everyone working for them must be idiots and all the people that vote for them must be idiots... the truth is they support an ideology... and it's a pretty socialist ideology as well!

In other words, remember for the future that right-wing thinking is not Hitler and not racist or war-mongering, anti-semantic or BNP and not for uninteligent people - i.e. nutjobs. Right-wing thinking is capitalist and in favour of freedom and low regulation.

The most extreme kind of right-wing theories are the theories of anarchy where there are no laws and absolutely no conditions about who should live where and who should pay for the next big socialist project. Anti-tax, anti-government, law-of-the-jungle, survival of the fittest, ect, ect… although, just like I don't agree with socilaism, I don't agree with anarchy either. Somewhere in the middle is best.

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IT Angle

@Bronek

In the UK, People go to work to keep long-term unemployed in a comfortable lifestyle. These people don't have to get up, only pop more kids out to increase the amount of Dole money they get. They call people who go to work "Stupid". Their homes are provided and maintained free of charge and they are given money. This money and support system is funded by taxpayers.

If you are a regular taxpayer and are made redundant, you fall under a different system - Jobseekers Allowance. If you and your wife have been working, have a nice home with a mortgage and one of you lose their job, then they are only entitled to £60 a week for 6 months. No matter how much you have contributed. If you don't have enough coming in to pay your bills and mortgage through redundancy, you can lose your home and trhere is no financial support in lieu of your contributions.

It kind of makes you think that those with no aspirations who are happy to sit around all day just might have the right idea. Don't set your sights too high and you will never be disappointed.

A Polish mate of mine told me that some Pilots were demoted for speaking in Polish when they were engaging enemy planes over London. i wonder if these were Pilots of 303 Squadron?

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Not the usual IT comments

As much as I like to have a laugh at the BNP's expense, deriding them as stupid is a mistake. They do have intelligent members which makes them all the more dangerous. Especially in the times of recession when they gain more votes.

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