back to article US judge says University can ignore Christian course credits

A federal judge has told the University of California that when considering applicants, it has the constitutional right to ignore high school course work grounded in the notion that the Bible is infallible. On Friday, as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle, Judge James Otero denied claims from a group of Christian high …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    California and Kansas ...

    ... they're not just separated by half the width of the country, they're on opposite sides of the world!

    RAmen!

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    drones culled between high school and university ...

    Brilliant news ! Maybe now all will still be well even if US schools insist on teaching creationism to their students .. they just won't get into university ! Perhaps this will eventually lead to the evolution of an American sub-species that finally realises that to do anything useful in the world requires you to actually THINK, as opposed to just perpetuating mythical rubbish like the bible ....

    <flames because I have it on infalliblle authority that there's a lot of them in my future....>

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    @Roger Pearse

    It's pretty clear you don't know what you are talking about. Just because a course is accredited shouldn't mean that a particular higher education institution should accept it as credit towards entry. Oxford and Cambridge for example do not accept all A-level qualifications as being equal. Some they have determined to be insufficiently academically rigourous and do not accept as an entrance requirement. This is no different. They have deemed that this particular qualification by virtue of teaching dogma rather than critical thinking either does not fit with their methods of teaching, or lacks the rigour necessary for their courses. In either case, they are perfectly reasonable to reject the qualification, and the judge is perfectly reasonable to agree to this. If the judge had overturned things, then I think it would be clear that he would be rejecting free thinking in favour of religious dogma, and the political movement that is the Christian right in the US would have won. At that point, the judiciary would most definitely have been politicised.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    People are dumb but the judge rocks.

    My colleague wants to visit japan, when shown a map he couldn't tell me where it is, neither korea, new zealand or Georgia (big in the news) so people are dumb all over the world for differing reasons, not just Americans. Problem is Americans went to court over it after being told they were dumb.

    If someone wants to believe a book written in chinese whispers by someone of a different faith that courses allegedly 6000 years of history and ignores things like fossils and science and questions like Adam and Eve had two male children, where do the other people come from... (Don't mention outside the garden as that means those that sin are part of us all - furthering why we shouldn't read the bible in the first place) :)

    Let them believe what they want, just ban them telling others and let them live in one place so they can be tagged and monitored easily.

    @Richard.

    Everyone accepts now that the greek and norse myths are myths. Unfortunately you can't tell christians that it is myth, never mind the other religions, so you need to be a little more creative in how you get the message across.

  5. David Hicks
    Alien

    @ Anonymous Coward

    "Macro evolution is yet to be proven, as are all creation theories."

    False, speciation has in fact been observed in extant species. Macro evolution has been proven beyond doubt.

    Alien, because fundaMENTALists are as wilfully ignorant of reality as the conspiracy theorists.

  6. Jonathan Adams
    Happy

    @ekimdam

    Is there no way you would compromise in your argument? ;P

  7. adnim

    @Richard:Mythjudgment

    The university dare because as a university the onus on them is to teach and support fact and not perpetuate nor encourage fairy tale belief systems.

    I do agree with you that one religion should not be singled out. This judges ruling and the university of California admission policy should apply the same lack of acceptance to ALL faith based teachings where the fantasy contained within "the book" contradicts established fact and do so without bias.

    Perhaps the judge singled out Christians because that was what the case concerned. Should a similar case arise where the teachings of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Scientology at al are called into question, I hope the university and the judge show the same level of integrity and common sense.

  8. Ruana
    Dead Vulture

    @ Jonathan Adams

    I see where Gordon is coming from, and I agree. What, exactly, do you think is 'irrational' about not wishing to compromise with a worldview which is inherently not evidence-based? Is it so unreasonable of me to be bothered about the fact that, in the 21st century, many of the UK's decision makers pay at least lip service to the arbitrary rules set out in a collection of ancient books?

  9. Gulfie
    Flame

    @Roger Pearse

    How typical of a god botherer to distort the ruling to their own ends. I am not religious but I'm happy to tolerate religious people who don't come out with statements that boil down to 'my god says back is white, and in defiance of all the facts, I agree with them'.

    The point here is that the material used to teach did not present a balanced point of view, and I think the judge made that clear. You can teach all you like from a religious point of view but it still has to be balanced and take the facts as they stand into account. The course material quoted clearly failed to do this, as all reasonable people would agree.

    As others have said, believe what you want but don't expect it to count when you apply for higher education.

    There are plenty of C of E and RC schools in the UK that churn out perfectly acceptable science and history courses and there is no reason why this should not continue. Please don't confuse discrimination against a religion with discrimination against deeply flawed (educational) teaching methods.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    @Jared Earle

    <pedant>

    Whether a split infinitive is valid or not is still a matter for debate. Although I accept that most grammar guides now permit split infinitives. My position on this can be summed up as follows:

    1) In spoken English, it is hard to argue against a split infinitive, especially if it enhances meaning. In many ways one can see it as a similar grammatical construct to a tmesis for example.

    2) In written English, where a split infinitive can be easily avoided, it can be sensible to avoid it. However, I will never ambiguate meaning in order to avoid a split infinitive.

    </pedant>

  11. Jason The Saj
    Thumb Down

    For all the BS talk on scientific method....you idiots have shown none.

    Really, you guys are nothing more than religious fanatics. You rejoice in the news, you mock, you gloat. You exclaim Darwin, the scientific method, etc.

    I don't think I read one post where anyone even bothered to look into the book being used before dismissing it. Sounds to me like most of you worship the scientific method in name, but are just like most christians in being unchristlike, you are very unscientific in your methods. Simply acting out on your personal bias'.

    *shrugs*

    That's humanity for you...

  12. BGrant

    Facts are not believe

    "Belief with no room for compromise _ON EITHER SIDE_ of the argument is irrational."

    I'll believe that 2+2=4, speed of light is constant, gravity exists & that there is no past or present evidence of any god, from any belief system.

    Fath is the oppposite of fact. It is that the belief that there is something beyond fact. The judge allowed the universities' throwing out of the course that tried to dictate that fath _was_ fact.

    As for all of the US bashers : us yanks ain't all under-edjukated. we knows how to cook us up some sweet tastin' possum.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Thank God for the courts

    The longer I live in the US, the more grateful I am for the sanity of (most of) its judges.

    By the way, another Code Word to watch out for from the Religious Right is "activist judges". That's the smear they pull out whenever a judge upholds the Constitution over patently unconstitutional laws passed by pandering or pusillanimous politicians. The attack usually is along the lines of "unelected judges overturning the will of the people"...

  14. adnim

    @AC:1307

    "I'm not going to go as far as Richard Dawkins and call it Child Abuse"

    I will, religious indoctrination IS child abuse, and I believe this to be fact.

    I know this from experience, it took me a long time to shake off the guilt trip and fear that a religious and superstitious Catholic mother programmed into me. Between her and Sunday school my mind was well and truly fucked up. I am fortunate that I have never been afraid to question, can think in a logical manner and have a somewhat rebellious nature. Otherwise I would still be suffering from the mental illness that an irrational belief system instills in a fresh impressionable mind.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    JESUS SAVES...

    ...my carpet.

    A god squadder knocked on the door with horrendous dissentry. Luckily i was able to remove his head from, and ram his crucifix up his arse and plug the flow before it stunk the place up. "holy shit" he said

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    @Tim Greenwood RE: Homoeopathy

    I think Ferry Boat is not saying Homoeopathy is faith based but rather that believing it works is equivalent to thinking the world is only 6000 years old. There is a difference between believing in something and saying something is the result of belief.

    In any case homoeopathy is a complete load of crap. As far as I know there is no scientific evidence that it is any better than a placebo at curing anything. Plus try taking a look at some of the mixtures that are sold, there are those where the so called active ingredient has been watered down so much there are only a few molecules per bottle. Please tell me how a single molecule of active ingredient can cure a problem?

    Even though there is a complete lack of evidence of its effectiveness these alternative health professionals, aka conmen, still manage to sell homoeopathic remedies in enormous quantities to the unsuspecting public.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    hohohoo

    http://www.sickipedia.org/search.php?q=jesus

  18. Rachel

    The only problem I see here...

    This is honestly kind of unfair to the students. Usually, kids who are going to religious schools don't have a choice in the matter - even most religious kids I know would go to a public school, given the choice. It's usually their parent's choice to send them to a private religious school, and it's the school's choice, not the students', of what cirriculum to use, and so in the end, the people who are missing out are the ones who had the least amount of control over the whole thing. And, let's not mention how well public schools teach things like critical thinking.... perhaps the schools in question here should just have remedial courses for anyone who's school's courses failed to meet their standards, or for anyone else who can't cut it in their 'normal' college classes.

  19. The Other Steve
    Boffin

    @Tim Greenwood w/r/t Homoeopathy.

    Actually, the (few) instances in which Homoeopathy appears to be effective are easily explained by the well known 'Placebo Effect'.*

    In fairness, the actual mechanisms of the placebo effect are, AFAIK still the subject of investigation and are not fully understood, but that doesn't mean that we should ascribe some mystical significance to one particular instance of this broadly observed phenomenon.

    As the great PTerry says "Some people will get better from anything."

    *As at least four peer reviewed studies have stated :

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2005/aug/26/health.medicineandhealth3

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Morons....

    While the greater majority of the Reg Reading population is spouting there pitchforks against the Bible... remember this.

    So I guess its ok for me to go to an Islamic School and be taught that its a good thing to blow up the "infidels" and then get accepted into a Californian university. And say the Koran is perfect and infallible... including the Hadeef.

    Better yet... what about the KKK.... oh hell.. why stop there...any thing religious that involves some sort of prejudice or something dangerous like witchcraft or the occult.

    My point if you don't have enough brain cells to comprehend this.... while they reject the Bible... they will NOT reject the above mentioned items. Oh but don't let in the people who believe in the bible! They are dangerous! So dangerous it would disrupt our poor little liberal world!!! Egads! Oh but let in everyone else thats against the Bible.. no problem at all! Even if your going to kill us or something stupid! We don't care!

    And if you people can't figure that out.... you shouldn't be in the IT Business let alone making judgments on something so simple that your low IQ brains can't figure out.

    That.. is called Discernment.

    PS: And this Bible believing "idiot"... is going to enjoy his day.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Is the UK much different?

    Maybe it's just me, but it seems like almost any religion EXCEPT Christianity is being promoted by the UK Government - if anybody says anything that some go-sah Intellectual in their ivory tower thinks *might* offend a Sikh, Muslim, Buddah or anyone else *except* a Christian, said "anybody" can expect a visit from one of NuLabour's Thought Police within a short timeframe.

    Me, I'm off to see if I can summon Cthulhu and his minions, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, to have a word on my behalf with our (in)glorious Government and his Politcally-Correct religious zealots.

    (Note to the Thought Police; my codename is HASTUR - got that? Not sure? Say it twice more to be certain ;-)

    .

    .

    Mine's the one with the Elder sign on the breast pocket and "Cthulhu - Why Vote For The Lesser Evil" on the back.

  22. david wilson

    @Mark

    >>"Well what is macro evolution? Where does proven evolution change into unproven macro evolution and why is the line there?"

    In the arguments of creationists/IDers, proven 'microevolution' turns into unproven (and therefore suggestibly impossible) 'macroevolution' at the point where they can start pretending it didn't happen with something approaching a straight face, reckoning that Satan and/or a prankster Jehovah created all the fossils, clear similarities in DNA between related species, etc just to confuse people.

    Basically, if they didn't see it happen, then they can pretend it never happened, and that they are still specially created by a deity. The desire to believe *that* seems to be what much creationism comes down to, even among those who'd loudly claim to be ever so 'umble.

  23. Throatwobbler Mangrove

    erm

    "The rest of the world plays cricket & America plays baseball."

    This is Ross McToss, I'm afraid - it's only a few British ex-colonies that play cricket, and quite a few countries (although hardly the rest of the world) that plays baseball: Japan, Cuba, Korea, Dominican Republic...

  24. RRRoamer

    @Mr Mouse

    "But at university, accepting any view as incontrovertably accurate should never be allowed."

    Does this include the current favorite religion of AGW????

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    fairy tales

    Having studied both theology and economics, I can say they are both fairy tales.

  26. Michael
    Pirate

    First science,(Darwin)

    Then history, how about economics next?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Principle_of_Population

    It's author might have something to say on the issue.

  27. John Armstrong-Millar

    Faith Hope and Charity

    Well Faith based is exactly that... It's all a bit sad.

  28. frowbart

    @Tim Greenwood

    You have to be kidding me. You know that homeopathy is based on dilutions to infinity and how rediculous the premise is and you are actually defending it?

    It's a joke.

    Any credible studies give it the same effect as a placebo.

  29. Anton Ivanov

    It's simple, let Darwin sort it out

    You forget something. It is US. It is a place where there are companies that hold mandatory prayers at the beginning of meetings and this for some f*** reason is not considered discrimination.

  30. RW
    Boffin

    What's really going on

    The prominent leaders of the fundies — the Oral Robertses, the Bob Joneses, the Jerry Falwells, the Jim Bakkers, the Billy Grahams, the Pat Robertsons, and their ilk — are clever men who figured out that there's lots of money to be made from suckers, so they have exploited long-preëxistent religious stupidity in the US to line their pockets.

    Money and power, that's what it's all about.

    It's necessary to forestall their followers from learning to think critically because subjected to careful examination, fundie theology turns out to be a wet paper bag. It won't hold up to the slightest scrutiny. As a result, fundie educational institutions are primarily focussed on stamping out independent thought while pumping the minds of their gullible students full of nonsensical propaganda.

    How does this differ from, say, the RC church? My Catholic friends tell me that contrary to the impression il Papa would like to give, the RC church is far from being a monolith. Within it are many different schools of thought and belief circumscribed by a surprisingly limited number of fundamental dogmas. The Jesuit order is an example of this, being the brains trust of the church (though Jesuit academic work is generally somewhat second rate).

    Note too this difference between the fundies and the RC hierarchy: the wealth accumulated by fundie leaders passes down in their family, whereas in the RC church (and, for that matter, most non-fundie sects) whatever wealth has been accumulated is clearly institutional, not personal.

    The fundies have figured out that though they have managed to acquire an undue political influence (really intended to further their accumulation of personal wealth and power), it's helpful to pretend to be victims of oppression. With few exceptions, most readers of El Reg probably agree that, if anything, the fundies are far more often oppressors who make every effort to impose their own narrow ideologies on society as a whole.

    Hence, in the case at hand, it's important to play the role of poor downtrodden Christians subjected to official discrimination.

    Money and power, that's what it's all about. Keep that slogan in mind.

    I have long suspected that the leaders of the fundies and their chief henchmen (including politicians such as Bush Jr. who exploit the gullible) are complete hypocrites: they don't believe a word of fundie teaching, but are smart enough not to be caught laughing about it on the way to the bank with another bag full of money.

  31. Daniel

    The Alternative...

    Book Description - From Crayons to Condoms: The Ugly Truth About America's Public Schools.

    What's really going at your local public school? In From Crayons to Condoms: The Ugly Truth About America's Public Schools, Steven Baldwin and Karen Holgate let parents, concerned teachers and students speak for themselves about the dismal state of government education in America today.

    The conclusion? Today's schools are laboratories for disaster, where failed methodologies and policies continually find new life thanks to bureaucracies more interested in maintaining power than in educating.

    Lavishly armed with your tax dollars, government at every level encourages mass social experimentation on our kids - success optional. In From Crayons to Condoms you'll discover...

    * The lesbian gym teacher who hands out a paper called "101 Ways To Do It Without Going All The Way" in every class.

    * The "Inventive Spelling" curriculum which demands of parents that they "avoid giving in to our natural desire to correct the mistakes" because it's "harmful to the children"

    * The "innovative name-calling" program for kindergarteners and first graders that teaches new words and concepts like "dyke" and "faggot."

    * The required courses in "death education" that actually encourage teen depression and suicide.

    * The math classes in which students write down how they "feel" about math problems...as opposed to learning fractions, algebra and multiplication tables.

    Today's public schools are not just rife with bizarre, inaccurate textbooks and failed teaching practices - they encourage classroom activities that produce dangerous, even deadly, results.

  32. Michael

    Church & State?

    In all fairness, this equates to the state telling private christian schools what they can and can't teach. They may not be doing it explicitly, but by refusing to accept a history class with a religious slant, they're effectively dictating curriculum, and meddling in the affairs of the religious organization. By this same reasoning, most biology classes should be ignored by the University because they (the classes) consider the THEORY of evolution to be infallible fact, when in truth, it's unproven - but is still taken as fact which "fail[s] to adequately teach critical thinking and modern [scientific] analytic methods."

    I should have expected this, however, because apparently, separation of church and state only applies when the government wants to HELP a religious organization, not when they want to kick one in the groin.

    What concerns me is that the state university bases their objection on the notion that this history class is slanted in its world view. The problem with this ruling is that it sets a dangerous precedent wherein publicly funded state universities have the power to decide that any or all religious group or groups' students cannot pursue higher education unless they go to a religious school, which would further entrench the slanted world view the university is concerned about. Does it make any sense to say that a university will only teach those who already know? Certainly not! As an institution of "higher" learning, perhaps the impetus should on the university to take these students in, and EDUCATE them in a balanced world view, rather that telling them to bugger off to a christian university, only to further slant them so they can experience their rude awakening in the much less tolerant "real world". Denying admission because of a biased history class will only serve to further bias those students toward their skewed view of the world, when what they need is to have their world view balanced out by an institution willing to teach them.

  33. AJ MacLeod

    Re: Religion is BAD

    AC: Your statement shows your utter dearth of knowledge and understanding of history. You have simply regurgitated a myth which is popular, displaying precisely the lack of critical thinking and research which this item was allegedly reporting.

    As for the supposed incompatibility between Christianity and real personal freedom... just see how free the people living under anti-theist communist rule have been and are now.

  34. ian
    Unhappy

    Biology versus Intelligent Design

    One of the states (Iowa or Kansas, I can't be arsed to remember which) has decided not to teach that pernicious claptrap, evolution.

    More nutters preparing for the "end times" with their finger on the launch button.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    @Throatwobbler Mangrove

    "This is Ross McToss, I'm afraid - it's only a few British ex-colonies that play cricket, and quite a few countries (although hardly the rest of the world) that plays baseball: Japan, Cuba, Korea, Dominican Republic..."

    Actually you are also wrong. Only a few ex-colonies play test match cricket, but there are lots of countries which play cricket. 154 countries play cricket to one extent or another, over half of these are members of the ICC (in some capacity), and about 3/4 have formal national league structures. The Netherlands (and also the USA) have pretty active cricket leagues.

    As I understand it, about 160 countries in the world play baseball to some extent, with a huge amount of overlap. Finally, there are more people in the world who actively play cricket than baseball (mainly because of the effect of the sub-continent of India).

    Now, what does this have to do with a rant on God?

  36. This Guy

    @ Jason The Saj

    "I don't think I read one post where anyone even bothered to look into the book being used before dismissing it. Sounds to me like most of you worship the scientific method in name, but are just like most christians in being unchristlike, you are very unscientific in your methods."

    Did you see alafair's post before you pronounced judgement?

    And not all of us have the time to research every news story that lands in front of us. So we accept that when the college says the course isn't rigourous enough for their requirements, they're telling the truth.

    Plus, who worships the scientific method? It's just a way of doing things. It's worked better than anything else, that's all.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    something done right?

    just a bit of a thought here...

    since these applicants have firm belif in infalable bible and it had taught them everything why do they even apply?

    these spots can and should go to people who actually can use them instead of people who know everything already.

    as for the judge good for him! but i feel very sorry for him at same time since now christians everywhere will be chasing him with pitchforks and torches wherever he goes.( if they catch him alive i am sure there will be a stake with his name on it somewhere)

    also let us celebrate this small victory of common sense in war against religious nuts!

    paris because even she can see that religion is wrong!

  38. David Hicks
    Thumb Down

    @Tim Greenwood

    Sorry mate, homeopathy has been shown to have no greater rate of success than the placebo effect - i.e. it's a load of old tosh I'm afraid.

  39. Dave The Cardboard Box

    Judge judging "Judges"

    My head just exploded.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    What?

    "claims from a group of Christian high schools and Christian high school students that the 10-campus University had suppressed free speech and discriminated against religious views in rejecting such course credits."

    So I suppose it's not suppressing free speech and discriminatory to "[fail] to adequately teach critical thinking and modern historical analytic methods".

    Nor I suppose is it suppressing free speech or discriminatory to "[instruct] that the Bible is the unerring source for analysis of historical events, [to attribute] historical events to divine providence rather than analyzing human action, [to evaluate] historical figures and their contributions based on their religious motivations or lack thereof and" -- most damningly -- to "[contain] inadequate treatment of several major ethnic groups, women, and non-Christian religious groups."

  41. David Hicks
    Thumb Down

    @AJ MacLeod

    "As for the supposed incompatibility between Christianity and real personal freedom... just see how free the people living under anti-theist communist rule have been and are now."

    yes, because communism is the only alternative to a christian theocracy right?

    Honestly, it boggles the mind...

    @Michael

    "What concerns me is that the state university bases their objection on the notion that this history class is slanted in its world view."

    Then be concerned no more, because they based it on the fact that the course did not adequately prepare the students to take their degree course.

    It's that simple. It's not worldview or bias, it's that the educational material in these schools, teaching belief in the inerrancy of the bible and of fundamentalist religions, is directly opposed to the critical thinking required in a real academic history department.

    Simply put, what they've learned is useless.

    And to those who pity the children - if enough universities follow this example then maybe the parents will get the message and stop sending their children to these third rate indoctrination camps.

  42. Chris G

    Judge Otero

    Name like that sounds like a Catholic heretic, HE'S A WITCH! A WITCH! BURN HIM

  43. Herby

    Praise the Lord...

    For this great ruling.

    No other comments necessary!

  44. Mark
    Happy

    @David Hicks

    Although, to be fair, there *is* an effective placebo effect.

    So it's not that homeopathy doesn't work, it's just that forgetting about it and getting on with things works just as well. As does wearing a wet chamois on your head and chanting ancient welsh poems.

  45. Mark
    Alert

    @AJ MacLeod

    "just see how free the people living under anti-theist communist rule have been and are now."

    Generally a fair bit better than those under religious laws.

    You see, not believing in the Sky Fairy means several things. Some of them not so good, but out of the good ones, most are able to make a more free society:

    a) critical thinking. you don't just believe, you want proof

    b) God doesn't tell you what is moral, you do, so it's a lot easier to see other people as just "other people" rather than "not people" as so many religions seem to manage

    c) if there is no afterlife, this is all you've got. so don't waste it

    d) if there's no afterlife, this is all anyone else has got, so don't waste it for them

    e) without religion there's less that binds people as a unit (which CAN be bad) and this means there's less divisiveness. At least, all the divisions are not stored up to make boundaries between populous religions and are divides the same total variation amongst the same population but with more (and smaller) gradients between

  46. Mark
    Alien

    Re: Church & State?

    "this equates to the state telling private christian schools what they can and can't teach"

    No. Quite the opposite.

    This decision is telling the US that the government isn't going to MAKE a university accept credits on a subject that they do not believe to show aptitude to what the university is teaching.

    After all, if I had a first in basket weaving, could I use this to get into an engineering university for an MSc?

    This decision is the OPPOSITE of what you say it is.

  47. PunkTiger
    Heart

    Two worlds, one mind

    Religion does have its place in today's world as part of the _spiritual_ side of humanity. Meditating upon the tenents of your chosen religion, finding wisdom while coping with day-to-day life, finding the strength of will to get you through adversity, and gaining inner peace in today's modern society are all well and good, and perfectly suited for religion.

    But, if you need to learn about the workings of everyday life. the "why"s and "how"s, the real, deep-down system of this thing called Life, then you need to learn about Sciences, History, and analytical thinking. Believe me, reality is complex enough without introducing Supernatural red herrings into the mix.

    If more prople understood this, we'd ALL be better off.

    The heart, because Science without heart is just as bad as Religion without brains.

  48. Mark
    Boffin

    @RRRoamer

    No.

    However the denialists have not yet managed to prove any of their alternative theories correct.

    And that's for the very few times they *have* a theory.

    So when you only have testable proof for one theory and all other theories have much less (or no) proof, you accept, as a working hypothesis, the theory that has the best proofs backing it up.

  49. Mark
    Boffin

    re: Morons....

    Please let me know where I can go to this KKK University that (according to you) is completely and utterly allowed by the governments of the US.

    Or are you talking complete wank?

    (onanism awaits you)

  50. Mark
    Coat

    Re: BJ University

    "Paris, 'cos she's graduated from BJ University will full honours"

    Magma cum louder?

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