We got behind the wheel of a Tesla S electric car. We didn't hate it The Tesla S is a very different type of electric car from the previous models featured here on El Reg. While the others I’ve driven – the Leaf, C-Zero, e-Up and even the Tesla Roadster – all have electrification as an odd quirk, to the Tesla S it’s in its soul. You can't see but Elon Musk is in this one I drove one of the …
I only get a 2g signal out wher i live and google maps has enough bandwidth to deal with that.
If I were planning on going to somewhere constantly with no mobile coverage i would as you say get an offline system. In England at this point google maps can do just fine without having to have a connection 100% of the time.
It just takes longer to find the address on 2g, so either do it before you leave home on the wireless connection or wait 4 min to set it up.
Why would any sane person choose a navigation system that requires a permanent connection to t'interwebs?
Originally the Model S was to have a healthy allocation for digital music storage. When the car was finally released that feature was deleted, nominally the excuse given was to allocate storage for maps to reduce bandwidth consumption. In the USA Tesla is paying the 3G data costs for the first 4 years of ownership. So its in their best interest to be efficient.
In the last year I had had the opportunity to drive both a Renault Twizy and a Tesla S, each for a very short distance.
The Tesla belongs to a coach and limo company here, they bought the S to collect VIPs from the VIP terminal at Ibiza aiport which is where I saw it while waiting for a client.
I doubt if I drove it more than half a mile but I can say it is definitely worth more than the price of thirteen Twizys, smooth and very fast acceleration, something I guess would take a bit of getting used to when you are used to accelerating with increasing noise. The Tesla gives very little sense of speed, I found I was doing over a hundred Km in a couple of seconds without realising it until I looked at the readout. The stereo was better than anything I have ever owned in my house.
The Twizy on the other hand is slow, expensive for a two in line seater that is almost comparable to the Sinclair C5. That however, had the advantage of pedal power when the battery was flat.
"The Twizy on the other hand is slow, expensive for a two in line seater that is almost comparable to the Sinclair C5. That however, had the advantage of pedal power when the battery was flat."
Utter garbage. The Twizzy has proper suspension and disc brakes. It was designed to compete in the young person scooter market, to be easy to park and cheap to run. Scooters and small motorcycles arn't particularly cheap and they're not particularly fast or comfortable. So wrong to compare it to a Tesla doing airport ferrying.
An internal combustion engine keeps the car nice n warm and the ice away. An electric car is going to need a big fat heater to stop them freezing which would kill their range?
I'd like electric cars to work, the local air quality is bound to be miles better if/when they become the norm.
It turns out that this question has been asked a lot before, surprisingly. And there are actual, factual answers available.
It also turns out that heating the cabin isn't a major drain compared to moving the car. And Norway is one of Tesla's biggest markets, and much of the northern US, not to mention Canada, has very harsh winters. Etc. Etc.
"An internal combustion engine keeps the car nice n warm and the ice away. An electric car is going to need a big fat heater to stop them freezing which would kill their range?"
What? Do you genuinely believe that the waste heat caused by a petrol engine 12 months of a year is less than the waste heat caused by running a separate electric heater on days when you use it?
An internal combustion engine keeps the car nice n warm and the ice away. An electric car is going to need a big fat heater to stop them freezing which would kill their range?
I took delivery of my Model S 85 in December 2013. When temperatures are low my 10 mile commute at 14°F was often around 400 Wh/mile. Same commute at 70°F to 80°F with A/C on is usually around 250 Wh/mile in the morning and nearly 300 Wh/mile in the late afternoon.
At low temperatures the car will actively heat the battery (and cool when hot). Can select an Eco mode which is less aggressive at heating the battery but also limits power output and regeneration until the battery reaches safe temperatures.
A few comments on comments so far... (from someone who has owned his Model S for 4 days so far)
1. Tesla are opening "superchargers" inside central London precisely to deal with the fact that on-street parking is so common here. 20 minutes will half charge the battery, i.e. 150 miles of range. I've already met a few people who have ordered the Model S even though they won't be able to charge at home. But yes of course there is a huge challenge around building a charging infrastructure for long journeys, just like there was when the petrol car was invented 120 years ago. There will be fast chargers at every UK motorway service station by the end of the year.
2. The battery is reckoned to have around a 20 year life (8-10 years in the car, then another decade or so helping to load balance the grid) and at the end of that process it's still 97% recyclable. How is this "environmentally atrocious"? Watch Robert Llewellyn talking about this at the end of his review at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv2UE7sNBfA
3. Having driven my Model S for about 500 miles now I can tell you that the display isn't the slightest bit distracting. Like anything else you just have to get used to it. Go test drive one and see for yourself. Also I'd love to see a side-by-side comparison of someone programming a sat nav destination in say a VW Golf vs The Model S. When I collected my car last week I wanted to drive into London to show the car to my colleagues. I just pressed a button on the steering wheel, said "navigate to Duncannon St, Central London", and off it went.
4. Of course the satnav works offline. If you are out of range of 3G you don't get to see full google map or satellite view tiles but you still get turn by turn nav, with maps, in the instrument display, voice prompts etc, just like any car. And the 3G service is included and free anyway, including pan-European roaming.
"2. The battery is reckoned to have around a 20 year life (8-10 years in the car, then another decade or so helping to load balance the grid) and at the end of that process it's still 97% recyclable. How is this "environmentally atrocious"?"
Llewellyn reckoned they'd outlast the car. If that's only 8-10yrs thats not very impressive for a start, and actual performance may depend on charging patterns, especially how often it's supercharged. Tesla seem to be offering a battery swap for $12,000 after 8yrs or $30,000+ before then. This may not be a problem for a rich actor who swaps his car every couple of years, but most of us don't expect to replace the 'engine' every 8 (or less) years in a normal car. Llewellyn also doesn't say the batteries will then go on to help the grid. He says Tesla (or Solar City) will sell the batteries again to a home owner to use as a UPS. Then presumably charge that customer again to dispose of the batteries once they're no longer useful.
Were you watching a different video?
There are Model S's in the US that have covered 50k miles already. They're seeing battery capacity drop by around 1% per 10k miles. A petrol car loses range at least that fast (as the engine gets less efficient). So with 200k miles on the clock you might expect 80% of delivery range. I don't know what the average mileage on a car at the time it's scrapped is, but I bet it's less than that.
And why would Tesla be selling my battery? It's mine. I bought it.
Also where are you getting your battery swap pricing? The only battery sales going on at the moment are a) when owners want to upgrade to the large battery and b) to repair cars that have been damaged in major accidents. No owner is looking to replace their battery with a new one just to recover the 2% range they've lost!
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"I don't know what the average mileage on a car at the time it's scrapped is, but I bet it's less than that."
ObMyCar: 10 year old turbo diesel still doing a reported 60mpg on the motorway. No signs of rust and only minor servicing bits needed. Which is possibly why the car industry likes electric cars, not just for the subsidies but also for the baked-in major component replacement costs.
"And why would Tesla be selling my battery? It's mine. I bought it."
As you've bought one, then may be you could share the UK terms for battery replacement? My sources have been googling Tesla S battery. For US versions, the 85K battery is guaranteed for 8 years, then $12K to replace it as a swap. If you need to replace it sooner than that, what will it cost you, and do you get to keep the old batteries? The searches show some vagueness regarding "normal degradation" for battery replacement under warranty.
Minor servicing? You'll be due for a new turbo soon (mine lasted 6 years) a cam belt every 5 years give or take with water pump is not a minor job either. Then your crank shaft oil seal will start to leak. Injectors, fuel pump, very expensive especially if your injectors wont budge. Your expensive MAF and MAP sensors don't last for ever.
"Minor servicing? You'll be due for a new turbo soon (mine lasted 6 years) a cam belt every 5 years give or take with water pump is not a minor job either. Then your crank shaft oil seal will start to leak. Injectors, fuel pump, very expensive especially if your injectors wont budge. Your expensive MAF and MAP sensors don't last for ever."
Yes minor servicing.
I have a Toyota Hilux 3 litre turbo diesel coming up on 270,000km. I consider timing belts (at around $30 each every 100,000km) and a water pump ($48 from Toyota no less and took 20 minutes to fit) minor servicing for such a vehicle, but then I've run 2 stroke motorbikes as daily commuters. No oil leaks and still turns in 6.5l/100km (that's about 35mpg for those mired in the 1960s) despite stupid tyres and a bullbar ruining what aerodynamics it ever had. Compression is a little down and it uses about half a litre of oil every 5000km so maybe we'll lift the head at half a million and have a look-see.
The trick is to actually do that minor servicing not just keep driving until something has to be done.
What on earth did you have that did a turbo in six years? I'd like to know so I can avoid them. Was it French by any chance?
Also where are you getting your battery swap pricing?
Tesla once publicly discussed the possibility of a battery futures contract where for $12k they would replace the 85 kWh after the 8 year unlimited mile warranty expired. There was some question as to whether this was an on-demand replacement or whether it was only a warranty extension. Warranty does not replace until capacity falls below 70% of new.
Not really relevant, but my Honda Civic, Petrol 1.6L, 02 plate is just coming up to 215K miles. It's still on it's original clutch, second cam belt and I think the second exhaust. Got through lots of disks and pads, and two front springs and some lower wishbones (I need to replace the whole thing as the bushes are not replaceable). Everything else is original. Still doing high 30mpg's compared with its as new mileage (apparently) of 42ish.
However, I do think it is the exception rather than the rule.
Anonymous Coward, what relevance has the context of being poor got to do with anything when discussing luxury cars.
I'm pretty sure that a poor person would struggle affording the fuel in an old V12 Jag, so that argument about the battery is pretty lame.
I dont think that it is that unusual for high mileage drivers (mini cab drivers in particular) to not think twice about putting a new or reconditioned engine in high mileage ICE car, so why should swapping out the battery in an 8-10 year old electric one be so outragous?
> If that's only 8-10yrs thats not very impressive for a start
The design life of a consumer car is ten years. How long do you think the engine in your car, if you have one, is designed¹ to last--or the body, for that matter?
¹ "Designed" has a specific meaning here, before you go retorting that your car is almost 300 years old and you've only changed the spark plugs once.
> I think ABS came from the people making aircraft landing gear.
Aircraft landing gear do indeed have an anti-blocking system, and have had so for a long time (60s?) but it's an entirely different development from car ABS. For a start, the system on aircraft is purely mechanical, as opposed to the electronic nature of ABS.
Source: Myself. I used to fly the darned things. Which means I can take them from A to B (on a good day) but honestly I have no idea how they actually fly. All I know is lots of money are involved in the process.
"I thought most developments (with regards driving aids rather than the 'leccy windows) were originally developed in Formula 1 cars"
Indeed. It's one of the main points of F1.
Which is why it kinda beggars belief that people are moaning about the new F1 power-plants.
US stock cars are stuck firmly in the past mechanically, and so are utterly irrelevant dinosaurs when it comes to automotive development.
"Where was ABS introduced? Electric windows? virtually anything else you now consider standard. Probably in the Merc S Class..."
Probably, or a similar luxury mark. I've heard that GM uses Cadillac for its experimentation with new features (new to GM, anyway). The customers can better afford warranties and repairs, while the profit margins are higher for GM to soak up warranty issues, recalls, and so forth.
Good to see 'leccy cars improving. Cost is still too high for me (if I had £50k I'd be buying a second hand 911 and saying sod the environment), and my ideal would be to have a small on-board engine to get me home if I'm too far away from a fast charger.
Still, another 10 years and I may have an electric car sitting on my driveway
"you have to look at it too much by saying there are anchor points – buttons which don’t move – to call up the essential screens for things like the lights and windscreen wipers."Wait, hang on - to turn on the lights or windscreen wipers, both actions required to be able to do while at speed, you have to press a button on the touchscreen to bring up another display with controls? That surely can't be right.
If true, it's terrible, especially considering the screen is below dashboard level. On the motorway you have to be able to turn on (and off) the wipers and/or lights, sometimes quickly, without looking away from the road. Say for instance, when a rainstorm suddenly hits. How many times are you going to have to look down because you've missed the right button or need to work out where the button for high intensity rear lights is on the screen.
I'm sorry, a clean UI is helpful but not in all cases, some things are important enough for physical switchgear to be able to be used without looking at. You wouldn't have the indicators operated by a touchscreen (please tell me Tesla hasn't done that!), neither should the other essential controls. I notice that the example owner hasn't used the car beyond a few miles and so likely hasn't come across these situations.
The wipers and headlights are both automatic (like in any car costing £50k or more).
And the wiper controls are on a control stalk on the steering wheel, as is the full beam headlight control, just like in every car.
Tesla have sold around 30,000 of these cars (mostly in the US). You can be pretty sure that all the crass usability issues were ironed out at the prototype stage, and most of the minor ones have also been fixed based on feedback from those early owners.
The car updates itself automatically like an iPhone - you get in one morning and it tells you there's been a software update and that new features are now available.
mikeyw0 - Thanks for the clarification, very helpful. The implication that crucial controls were entirely on the touchscreen did seem mad, and thankfully inaccurate.
Can I ask how good the height and position of the touchscreen is? It looks like it would benefit from being placed higher (like the screens are in modern Audis are). I get annoyed at some cars for having screens and controls too low down on the centre console, outside of peripheral vision.
The car updates itself automatically like an iPhone - you get in one morning and it tells you there's been a software update and that new features are now available.
That would make me nervous considering how rocky my iPhone updates have been lately.
The large screen is definitely a lot lower than other screens I'm used to (my previous car is an Audi A8). But then the instrument display directly in front of me is also an LCD and all the important info is there (speed etc obviously, but also nav stuff) and that's the one whose height/position is critical.
I think if the main screen were any higher it would start to become more intrusive (it is large after all!) - there's nothing critical on it that you *must* look at while driving so that's OK with me.
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