back to article Ancient telly, check. Sonos sound system, check. OMG WOAH

Oh boy! I just turned my crap 10-year-old Sony Bravia TV into a home theatre by replacing the limited speakers inside the Bravia’s enclosure with a Sonos Playbar. I'm blown away. The Playbar is a substantial piece of kit. Sonos Playbar Sonos Playbar It weighs 11.9lbs (5.4kg) and its dimensions are 3.35” high, 35.43” long …

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  1. FutureShock999

    I am really, really struggling to understand why the author bought the Play 3s to start with. The sound quality of Sonos really isn't _that_ great, for the money. It makes a ton of sense only if you want whole-house audio, with speakers in every room, that is fairly unobtrusive. (to put the SQ issue in perspective, I just bought a 6 year old pair of Epos M12s from a man who replaced them with Sonos - and as he said, it was a huge step down in quality).

    So if you can afford to buy a ton of Sonos and put it in every room - and you are not technical enough to use AirPlay to build something similar yourself - then it is OK. But ONLY if you can afford enough Sonos speakers to really make it worth it! So if you are in an income bracket where you can do that, the Playbar shouldn't even be a second thought - it works, it fits your system approach, take it to the checkout.

    But as the author states, he can't afford it. So what good are the Play 3s? They are a whole-house audio solution that is lacking the funding for expansion to the whole-house.

    For £400 to 500 or so, the author could have gotten a pretty nice AV receiver, and a decent sat/sub package in a bundle deal from any high street audio store (Richer Sounds or similar). That would have included a centre channel speaker. And full multi-channel decoding, and video switching capability.

    IMHO, sell the Play 3s to someone that needs whole-house audio, and go buy a good system for your AV needs...

    1. Dapprman

      To be honest, if audiophiles want to go for wireless streaming then they should be looking at the CM100 (now Sonos: Connect). This is designed to connect in to your stereo system/amp, allowing you to stream while also maintaining audio quality (remember Sonos does support FLAC).

      For some reason, while still selling the the latest generation of their original unamped and amped units Sonos hide those on their website and try to push their speaker inclusive units. No issue for the likes of me with no real ear for music quality (or so I claim), but useful for those wanting to expand on existing setups.

      1. Martin

        If cheapskate audiophiles want to go for wireless streaming, they should go for the old Squeezebox stuff, which is still reasonably easily available second hand. And if they are rich audiophiles, then the Squeezebox Transporter goes for over five hundred quid second hand on eBay.

        It's a damn shame that Logitech stopped selling the Squeezeboxen.

        1. Burb

          "It's a damn shame that Logitech stopped selling the Squeezeboxen."

          I agree.

          However, Squeezebox is not dead. The software is open source and there are various hardware solutions from smartphones to Raspberry Pi to new dedicated audiophile hardware that is under development (google communitysqueeze).

    2. spudmasterflex

      You obviously haven't heard a decent set of speakers connected to a sonos connect amp, or connect standard.

      Granted the play five is nothing special but is great for being semi portable, garden etc during BBQ.

      I have a connect amp in my dining room with a pair of monitor audio bx2 connected.

      In the lounge I have the connect standard, wired up to a two channel quad amp and monitor audio gold speakers, when played back using the controller with the new flac steaming service it sounds better than any of my previous setups.

  2. Frankee Llonnygog

    Audio reviewing is not what it used to be

    Audio is the Reg's deaf spot - the one technical subject matter where apparently no experience or knowledge is required (well, that and global warming...).

    Plots from a Bruel & Kjaer analyser or it didn't happen.

    1. Jan 0 Silver badge

      Re: Audio reviewing is not what it used to be

      Spot on. Has the Register ever had an objective review of audio equipment? Compare this with the reviews of computer hardware. Subjective?

      While we're complaining, when are you going to get Catherine Monfils to review the Olympus OM-Ds? (I'm aware that her reviews are subjective, but she is a talented photographer and the results are all available for us to inspect, whereas we can't hear what the audio reviewers heard.)

  3. Turtle

    Barbarism.

    "It was like adding colour to a black and white film..."

    Ugh.

    1. Robert Grant

      Re: Barbarism.

      "It was like adding colour to a black and white film: pointless, and very expensive."

      Fixed!

  4. Lamont Cranston
    Unhappy

    I'd like to upgrade from the speakers in my TV.

    I've owned a couple of Philips Home Cinema (DVD player + 5.1) set-ps, each of which has died an ignominious death (and frustrated me with the cabling). Pretty sure a £600 soundbar, that needs extra hardware to actually get hold of the audio, isn't the answer I was looking for!

    Nice to see I'm not the only curmudgeon, with a wallet full of moths, on the forum today.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No DTS Support

    Sonos do not support DTS so don't buy their products if you have a bluray player.

  6. Stretch

    A macuser and his money are easily parted

  7. Paul Westerman
    Headmaster

    prize another £599 from my wallet

    The word is "prise", unless you're a septic tank. Thank you!

    1. Chris Mellor 1
      Thumb Up

      Re: prize another £599 from my wallet

      Prise and septic tank comment - that was magic!!!

      Chris

  8. Steve Todd

    Another single stop solution

    Is the Marantz MCR510 network streamer plus a decent set of shelf stander speakers. That gives you TOS optical playback, Internet radio, Spotify et al, DLNA and AirPlay. As it sells for £250 you can get a pretty damned good set of speakers from the £600 the Sonos costs and still have change.

  9. Annihilator
    Paris Hilton

    "has a couple of Ethernet ports: one for connecting the Playbar to the Sonos Bridge home router box."

    In all seriousness, what's the other Ethernet port for?..

  10. thomas newton

    er...where are the audio L&R inputs??

  11. implicateorder

    Why wouldn't I spend on a Magnepan setup instead?

    http://www.cnet.com/news/magnepans-ultraskinny-speakers-make-big-fat-sound/

    These are true audiophile speakers and coupled with the right Receiver/Amp you can literally see the sound as it envelops a room.

    1. Martin
      Headmaster

      Re: Why wouldn't I spend on a Magnepan setup instead?

      "...you can literally see the sound as it envelops a room."

      Really? That must look strange.

      1. implicateorder
        Holmes

        Re: Why wouldn't I spend on a Magnepan setup instead?

        Not really. It's all in the minds eye ;-)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why wouldn't I spend on a Magnepan setup instead?

      you can literally see the sound as it envelops a room.

      That's actually smoke from your amp - did you bother to match impedance? :p

      1. implicateorder

        Re: Why wouldn't I spend on a Magnepan setup instead?

        Not smoke...soundscape. If you haven't heard it, you won't understand.

  12. spl23

    Seriously - the Reg need to get someone to review stuff who actually understands the tech, not someone whose reaction is akin to that of a lost Amazonian tribesman seeing a car for the first time...

    The Playbar is overpriced and was out of date at launch. No HDMI connectivity on a product like this is ludicrous, as is a lack of support for BluRay HD audio codecs. I'm a huge fan of Sonos' audio streaming solution - I have 6 zones worth at home - but the Playbar isn't even tempting. By the time you've bought the bar, the requisite two rear speakers (which need mains cables - hardly convenient) and the sub, you could have bought any number of better quality, more attractive options.

    Sonos were well ahead of the curve on home audio streaming when they launched, but they've been treading water ever since - no support for high-def audio, no video streaming - both of those are long overdue. The system is great for what it is, but it's badly in need of an update.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Agreed

      Needs Optical I/O & multiple HDMI passthrough as well as analogue(s) in.

      It's a gimmick. Like an iPhone dock

    2. Chris Mellor 1

      Education enjoyment

      I'm enjoying my education here :-)

  13. Fred Dibnah
    Happy

    Horses for courses

    The Playbar has an Ethernet port, so the author could connect the TV to that and use the Sonos Wifi to reach the Internet. Just a thought. Anyways....

    I've got Sonos in three rooms and love the flexibility of the system.

    My den has a Sonos amp into an 40-year-old pair of AR-2ax speakers, and it sounds bloody marvellous.

    Living room: ZP90 line out into AV amplifier & KEF speakers - really good sound (not as good as the old ARs tho').

    Kitchen: Play 5 - great, it goes loud, sounds pretty good, and can be wiped clean too.

    I went to a Sonos-only dealer before buying, to audition the Play 5. The chap produced a tablet and opened Spotify, and was very surprised that I wanted him to play particular tracks that I know the sound of. He said that customers usually say "Oh, play anything you like, I don't mind". He was also reluctant to turn up the volume in case it disturbed the office staff below, until I insisted. All of which is, I feel, quite revealing of some people's priorities.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Horses for courses

      I don't think most people can tell the difference. It's like VHS to DVD to blu-ray. Everyone could tell how much better DVD was than video, because of the blurriness and the wonky audio. A lot fewer can spot if blu-ray beats DVD, and even fewer care.

      The same being true of tape to CD to whatever. We've actually accepted a drop in quality since CD, despite the industry's attempts to go for DVD audio and SACD. mp3 is still better than tape - and that's good enough for most.

      I remember the first time I heard mp3. A friend of mine who had a decent-ish sound system, had got 100s of tracks on one CD from somewhere. They were really horrible, must have been a terrible bit rate to get so many on. It put me off looking at digital music for years. And yet he didn't even notice how crap it sounded. The fact that people are happy to use the bundled headphones with mp3 players shows this too.

      People's knowledge, talents and interest are just different. I've mixed live music. So I always spot those little mistakes, eg. when people fade up the mic too slow on live telly or radio. Or when the system is ringing and about to feed back (which it always seems to be whenever I hear X Factor). Most people don't notice, because they haven't trained themselves to. Why would they?

  14. Hurn

    Hmm... the author laments the fact that his TV is too old to have an optical out connector for audio.

    Err, if it were newer, and did have an optical out, where would he plug it in? (No fair guessing an organic orifice.)

    The Playbar has a single optical in. which is being used by his Apple TV player.

    His Apple TV unit only has optical out (no optical in).

    Thus, he's claiming to watch TV, with greatly improved audio, that does everything except play the audio of the TV channels he's watching. Meaning, he's not really watching TV (local channels) on it.

    Conclusions:

    1. The soundbar needs at least 2 optical inputs, and some way to switch between them (or else the user needs to buy a separate optical switch)

    2. The soundbar needs L/R Audio In (line in - RCA ports) for older TVs' audio out

    3. (Optional) Soundbar needs RF in, so it can do its own TV channel tuning, thus leaving the TV's audio signal out of the loop entirely.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Or, build your own for < £100

    http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/single-board_computers/next-gen_beaglebone/blog/2014/03/05/bbb--sonos-like-sound-system

  16. TooDeep

    The better alternative

    Shame on The Reg for this poor excuse of a review/click bait. Instead readers could have been told of the British technology implemented by Yamaha in their one-box plus sub genuine surround-sound Digital Sound Projectors. Anyone considering such a Sonos would be well advised to listen to and purchase a DSP instead.

  17. Mage Silver badge

    It's rubbish

    4" speakers will do for something portable.

    6" main drivers for any living room sound.

  18. Jim Wilkinson

    Any TV is vastly improved by a decent amp with a pair of stereo speakers either side of the TV (or better still, a 5.1 setup). This sort of product only makes sense if there's no space for anything better.

  19. Timbo

    £600 is pretty steep...

    ...if all you want to do is to improve the sound of flat-panel screens.

    Much simpler is to get a small, active centre channel speaker, that can accept the L/R analogue stereo outputs from the TV.

    I had exactly this scenario to resolve for my parents who found it difficult to understand the speech of some characters/news readers on TV.

    The solution I found was the small, compact ZVOX Mini speaker, which you can find for around £199 - the only downside is the small credit card sized remote control (for volume), though this isn't needed if the analogue TV output varies with it's own remote.

    PS Anyone else notice while commenting that there's a "Sonos" Play3 advert directly underneath the comments box..... :(

  20. nohatjim

    I have to admit I thought it was over priced and still do but I have spent the money and love my Sono's kit.

    The flexibility and functionality are great. It finally managed to convince my wife to put the CD's in the attic. I put my 3 in the kitchen for a family get together then wasn't allowed to take it back to my office :) Had to buy another one

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One major drawback of the play bar, it does not support DTS type digital music over the optical link. So your DVD/Blueray sound is not fully utilised.

  22. jzlondon

    What about power consumption?

    You never see people talking about that, but Sonos is dreadful. Each individual piece must be left permanently in standby, consuming ~5-10W, by design. If you switch them off at the wall, the mesh network doesn't like it and can take several minutes to sort itself out when you switch it on again.

    Until they drastically lower standby consumption I'm steering clear, great though they undoubtedly are.

  23. Message From A Self-Destructing Turnip

    Wasps

    "my ears thought they were being bathed in sonic syrup"

    Arrgh...OK ... release the wasps!

  24. sleepy

    The take-home here is that flatscreen TV audio is uniformly crap. Almost anything sounds better. You need separate speakers in some form. You can usually get an Airplay (and lots of other things) compatible AV amp for £200 or less. (I paid £169 for Pioneer 527, which also comes with a microphone to set up speaker delays, speaker and room acoustics matching). You don't actually need to spend much extra on speakers to get pretty good sound. The AV amp will switch among your DVD player, set top boxes, etc.

    (I'd also like to nit-pick a couple of posts, and point out that criteria is the plural of criterion. You should write "Sound quality is not the only criterion ...", or "Sound quality and price are not the only criteria...". Don't they teach ancient Greek in school any more?)

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Competing sound bars?

    Of course any sound bar will sound better than typical crap flatscreen speakers. There are plenty in the $200-$400 range with similar speaker sizes/configurations to the Sonos bar and with wireless subs that will presumably give you better bass response. Too bad those weren't reviewed.

  26. DaddyHoggy

    A decade ago I used to spend a lot of time in Richer Sounds. I eventually settled on a huge Kenwood DTS capable amplifier, 5.1 and 100W RMS per channel and solid wood, beech veneer 5.1 Eltax speakers (my wife got to chose the finish as she said the front speakers were so large they were effectively pieces of furniture...)

    We don't have a big living room and indeed from the sofa the 32" HD Toshiba TV we have is big enough for us (as in "it's all we have the space for") and, like the article writer, I find the standard TV speakers are not very good except for day-to-day stuff, as soon as we put on a film (irrespective of source - DVD, Blu-ray, External HD (plugged into BR player), Freeview HD box) then we switch on the Kenwood amp.

    If we can't have big visuals we might as well have big audio!

    I can't imagine replacing my Kenwood amp when it finally dies with a soundbar - I will be back to Richer Sounds and grabbing myself a new amp - this time with HDMI and ethernet/wi-fi connectivity too... (and 7.1, THX, etc...)

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