I work in IT security, and out of an office of 15 people, the only women are the ones who come in after hours to clean.
Women! You too can be 'cool' and 'fun' if you work in tech!
Hey ladies! Did you know it's cool to work in tech? EU commish Neelie Kroes is here to tell you all about it, after a study claimed that the lack of women in ICT roles was costing the European Union billions of euros. Happy woman at a computer HURRAY! Now that I work in IT, I'm so fun and cool and in the future! (I really …
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Wednesday 12th March 2014 16:18 GMT dogged
Re: Now THERE'S a campaign worth discussing! @dogged
> Really? No discrimination there? 100% sure about that?
Positive. MY other half and I both work around the bloody nursery. Except she's a doctor in a hospital and required to do shifts so all those weekends/nights/on-calls are the times when I do all the childcare. All of it.
Also, fuck you.
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Thursday 13th March 2014 17:55 GMT Havin_it
Re: Now THERE'S a campaign worth discussing! @dogged
Wow. High horse much? You do realise I wasn't accusing YOU of discrimination, right?
The OP pointed up an example of discrimination in society (maybe bias is a better word in societal terms, but whatevs); you, while seemingly moving to deny such, simply moved the focus to another aspect of that discrimination.
If childcare is always shared 50/50 by parents (I'm delighted to hear that this seems to be the case with you and your partner, but you aren't the norm), then it would have been unnecessary for you to specify that *WOMEN* tend to go for such jobs. What, men don't too? Oh no, that was the OP's point, to which your reply in no way countered the existence of discrimination.
Something something fuckity-fuck grrr. (Unless you were reverse-trolling, in which case Brilliant!)
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Friday 7th March 2014 13:19 GMT Rosie Davies
Coding isn't cool. Or at least it isn't cool outside of the first 5% of the time when it is all a fresh new idea and the last 1% of the time when the blasted stuff actually starts working as you would like.
In between those two there are hours and hours of hard slog, tried and failed experimentation, arguments, irritations distractions and bloody meetings. Also, I am a woman, not a girl. I stopped being a girl <umblelumblelumble> years ago when I had my 18th birthday.
Rosie.
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Friday 7th March 2014 14:04 GMT Evil Auditor
Rosie, what you are saying is that 6% of your working hours actually are cool! I guess that's considerably above average :)
They want to get them while they still are girls and probably believe that both working in tech and cool are fiddling fondleslabs and goggling google glasses. You know, before realising the painstaking part that actual IT work is.
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Friday 7th March 2014 14:29 GMT Rosie Davies
I think it is cool but then again I am a geek and may have a different definition of cool from other people. The joys of laying down a fresh new architecture over the freshly revealed fields of the SVN repository or the juggling of statistics and explain plans so you get a result back in less than geological time. These are cool.
Rosie
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Friday 7th March 2014 13:50 GMT Pete 2
The kiss of death
Having an EU bureaucrat extolling the virtues of something is surely the simplest way to turn most people off it.
Let's face it, most people are NOT COOL - just watch them dance if you need proof. Most people don't even try to kid themselves they are cool and the ones who do usually end up worse off than if they'd done nothing to "improve" in that area. So why should "cool" be considered an attractive or aspirational property?
The basic issue is that thinking has been demonised. Most of the publications (both printed and web) place far more importance on appearance than content and most
newspaperstabloids never have a good adjective to say about anyone who demonstrates an IQ over 100. TV follows the same path: with the most popular programmes and channels being the least intellectually stimulating.What we (in IT) need is the sort of publicity that sport has got. Even if most people are still couch potatoes and only ever exercise their channel-changing finger, they do still talk about and show an interest in physical activities. If you want to motivate people, a sporty role model is often the way forward. The question is: how do you get abstract, intangible ideas to become sexy? How do you make theoretical analysis interesting? How is it possible to persuade "the man in the street" to talk about philosophy, mathematics or op-codes when he's in the pub?
Maybe those are the issues Neelie Kroes could work on, once he's solved the gender inequalities of IT
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Friday 7th March 2014 15:41 GMT Suricou Raven
Re: The kiss of death
The standard way is to remind people of the vast wealth to be made. That worked in the dot-com boom, but these days people are able to see through the lie and realise that for every Zuckerburg there are a million code monkeys slaving away and getting paid peanuts.
I can't be the only IT worker still getting annoyed by the parents demanding to know why I'm not a millionaire yet.
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Friday 7th March 2014 14:12 GMT localzuk
Missed the point?
Why are the EU trying to make out that ICT is a 'cool' industry? Most of the time it definitely isn't.
Sitting and staring at a screen for 10 hours trying to find the misplaced period in your code is as far from cool as you can get.
What it can be is fun, yes but more realistically it is more often interesting, its challenging, and can be well paid (but it isn't as well paid as it used to be).
Why aren't they promoting it on its actual strengths? Rather than trying to make out that women only go into jobs if they're fun or cool?
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Saturday 8th March 2014 06:32 GMT Goat Jam
Re: Missed the point?
"Because they know that women only go into jobs that are percieved to be fun or cool."
Nope, women go for jobs that are easy and require little technical ability. Air-conditioning is a mandatory requirement too, obviously.
With IT you get the aircon it is true, but even drooling Windows helldesk monkeys still need *some* technical chops.
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Thursday 20th March 2014 17:23 GMT JEDIDIAH
Re: Missed the point?
Nah. There's plenty of room in IT for drooling mouth breathers. Just work for a larger company where they seek to make any task something that can be accomplished by a trained monkey. Get pigeon holed into a position that neither requires nor offers any real technical challenge apart from reading off of a script.
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Friday 7th March 2014 15:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
"The study reckons that if women held digital jobs as frequently as men, EU GDP would be boosted by around €9bn a year."
Bullshit.
If the split was 50/50 there would still be the same number of jobs, just less held by men, therefor the amount of money made would remain the same. Or are they saying that people are willing to pay more for software written by someone with a pair of tits? If they are I can point out several male devs around me that should be on a higher hourly charge out rate.
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Saturday 8th March 2014 10:15 GMT Destroy All Monsters
As the EU leadership doesn't think that childraising is an activity of any particular merit whatsoever (should the population drop, one can just import little brown people from abroad), moving large chunks of the female population into Socialistically Powerful Worker Positions will embiggen the Yurop's GDP immensely and make it The Powerhouse of Intellectual Endeavours Worldwide!! This will pay down the monstrously grown incubating xenomorphs of state and private debt, assure the inflated salaries of the 30% working in nonproductive state jobs via appropriate tax revenues, and, if allied with cunning inflationary manoeuvers, enable the payout of the much-promised pensions at nominal values.
VICTORY HAIL!
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Friday 7th March 2014 17:46 GMT Anonymous Coward
Last thing you want to do...
...is to encourage anyone to get a job in IT. Shit managers, shit hours, under paid, under appreciated, over worked, crappy bean counters who won't invest, crappy users, crappy suppliers, crappy software, danger of being outsourced ; the list goes on.
After 23 years working in IT as a developer and as an IT manager for the last 3 years I'm thoroughly pissed off with it and regret the day when I was a teenager I decided my career was to work in IT. Damn the BBC's Computer Literacy Project in the 80s.
I'm so trying to encourage my son to head into almost any other career.
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Friday 7th March 2014 20:01 GMT Vanir
Re: Last thing you want to do...
You forgot the:
bad health; sitting on your arse for those 'shit hours', staring at screens for those 'shit hours', commuting hours each day to do these 'shit hours'.
crap family life.
crap social life.
I have no excuse of being a teenager to going in to programming; I was 37, I was under the delusion that programming was a very professional and rigorous arena of employment.
Software engineering? Yeah, right. Like 'free markets' in which a shortage of something means the price of that some something goes down. Go figure and explain both to anyone thinking of taking up a career in programming.
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Thursday 20th March 2014 17:28 GMT JEDIDIAH
Re: Last thing you want to do...
Either you're into it or not. In the Soviet Union, there was no economic value to being an engineer. You were actually shat on pretty hard really. So you didn't enter that profession unless you were really into it and simply didn't want to another sort of (manual labor) job.
IT today in the West is the same way. It's something you do because you are into it and that will make up for the crap you have to take.
Try to work against this and people will just flee the profession as soon as they realize they've been conned.
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Monday 10th March 2014 12:58 GMT Mike Smith
Not forgetting the...
... idiots who think that being able to use MyTwitSpace and run Microsoft Office puts them on a par with us 'umble grunts who actually know how computers work and whose coding skills go a bit deeper than FrontPage. If I had a fiver for every time I've seen the DTR light turn off when trying to explain a simple technical concept to PowerPoint jockeys who call themselves technical project managers or enterprise architects, I'd have retired a long time ago.
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Wednesday 12th March 2014 01:09 GMT Vociferous
Re: Last thing you want to do...
> Shit managers, shit hours, under paid, under appreciated, over worked, crappy bean counters who won't invest, crappy users, crappy suppliers, crappy software, danger of being outsourced
What lines of work is this NOT true of? I know it's true in health care, the pharmaceutical industry, education, energy production, military, and government. Been there, seen that.
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