back to article Women! You too can be 'cool' and 'fun' if you work in tech!

Hey ladies! Did you know it's cool to work in tech? EU commish Neelie Kroes is here to tell you all about it, after a study claimed that the lack of women in ICT roles was costing the European Union billions of euros. Happy woman at a computer HURRAY! Now that I work in IT, I'm so fun and cool and in the future! (I really …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I work in IT security, and out of an office of 15 people, the only women are the ones who come in after hours to clean.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      And steal all your secrets...

      1. Gav

        And insert bugs in your code. They certainly weren't there when you wrote it!

    2. NogginTheNog
      Stop

      Now THERE'S a campaign worth discussing!

      Why are by far the majority of low paid/part time jobs being fulfilled by women?!

      1. dogged

        Re: Now THERE'S a campaign worth discussing!

        You answered your own question there.

        The majority of low paid jobs are part time. Women are often attracted to part time work, often simply because childcare is so fuckin' expensive.

        It's not discrimination, it's economics.

        1. Havin_it
          Trollface

          Re: Now THERE'S a campaign worth discussing! @dogged

          >Women [...] childcare

          Really? No discrimination there? 100% sure about that?

          1. dogged

            Re: Now THERE'S a campaign worth discussing! @dogged

            > Really? No discrimination there? 100% sure about that?

            Positive. MY other half and I both work around the bloody nursery. Except she's a doctor in a hospital and required to do shifts so all those weekends/nights/on-calls are the times when I do all the childcare. All of it.

            Also, fuck you.

            1. Havin_it

              Re: Now THERE'S a campaign worth discussing! @dogged

              Wow. High horse much? You do realise I wasn't accusing YOU of discrimination, right?

              The OP pointed up an example of discrimination in society (maybe bias is a better word in societal terms, but whatevs); you, while seemingly moving to deny such, simply moved the focus to another aspect of that discrimination.

              If childcare is always shared 50/50 by parents (I'm delighted to hear that this seems to be the case with you and your partner, but you aren't the norm), then it would have been unnecessary for you to specify that *WOMEN* tend to go for such jobs. What, men don't too? Oh no, that was the OP's point, to which your reply in no way countered the existence of discrimination.

              Something something fuckity-fuck grrr. (Unless you were reverse-trolling, in which case Brilliant!)

      2. Michael Thibault

        >Why are by far the majority of low paid/part time jobs being fulfilled by women?!

        Work is highly over-rated and women take cognizance of this fact?

  2. Rosie Davies
    Thumb Down

    Coding isn't cool. Or at least it isn't cool outside of the first 5% of the time when it is all a fresh new idea and the last 1% of the time when the blasted stuff actually starts working as you would like.

    In between those two there are hours and hours of hard slog, tried and failed experimentation, arguments, irritations distractions and bloody meetings. Also, I am a woman, not a girl. I stopped being a girl <umblelumblelumble> years ago when I had my 18th birthday.

    Rosie.

    1. Evil Auditor Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Rosie, what you are saying is that 6% of your working hours actually are cool! I guess that's considerably above average :)

      They want to get them while they still are girls and probably believe that both working in tech and cool are fiddling fondleslabs and goggling google glasses. You know, before realising the painstaking part that actual IT work is.

      1. Rosie Davies

        I think it is cool but then again I am a geek and may have a different definition of cool from other people. The joys of laying down a fresh new architecture over the freshly revealed fields of the SVN repository or the juggling of statistics and explain plans so you get a result back in less than geological time. These are cool.

        Rosie

        1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

          I know, I know... those were the times... Unfortunately, I left the geeky job and now there's nothing cool left except for the rare joy of hunting down some fraudsters.

          1. TRT Silver badge

            The geeky R&D jobs were fun times. The low pay didn't matter when you enjoyed it. Now I just repair the damage left by cable thieves and it's still hard to make ends meet.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @TRT

              Of course it's difficult to make ends meet, someone's nicked the cable that went in the middle!

              1. TRT Silver badge

                Re: @TRT

                I think it began was when I lost my job as brakeman on the Snowdonia Mountain Railway. After I left, things started going downhill pretty quickly.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Agreed

      " Also, I am a woman, not a girl. I stopped being a girl <umblelumblelumble> years ago when I had my 18th birthday".

      If there's one thing that REALLY sets my teeth on edge it's grown women calling themselves "girls"!

      1. dogged

        Re: Agreed

        > If there's one thing that REALLY sets my teeth on edge it's grown women calling themselves "girls"!

        It's worse when they call themselves "Jilly" but these two conditions often occur at the same time.

    3. AndrueC Silver badge
      Unhappy

      In between those two there are hours and hours of

      ..meetings.

  3. Pete 2 Silver badge

    The kiss of death

    Having an EU bureaucrat extolling the virtues of something is surely the simplest way to turn most people off it.

    Let's face it, most people are NOT COOL - just watch them dance if you need proof. Most people don't even try to kid themselves they are cool and the ones who do usually end up worse off than if they'd done nothing to "improve" in that area. So why should "cool" be considered an attractive or aspirational property?

    The basic issue is that thinking has been demonised. Most of the publications (both printed and web) place far more importance on appearance than content and most newspapers tabloids never have a good adjective to say about anyone who demonstrates an IQ over 100. TV follows the same path: with the most popular programmes and channels being the least intellectually stimulating.

    What we (in IT) need is the sort of publicity that sport has got. Even if most people are still couch potatoes and only ever exercise their channel-changing finger, they do still talk about and show an interest in physical activities. If you want to motivate people, a sporty role model is often the way forward. The question is: how do you get abstract, intangible ideas to become sexy? How do you make theoretical analysis interesting? How is it possible to persuade "the man in the street" to talk about philosophy, mathematics or op-codes when he's in the pub?

    Maybe those are the issues Neelie Kroes could work on, once he's solved the gender inequalities of IT

    1. Rosie Davies

      Re: The kiss of death

      > Maybe those are the issues Neelie Kroes could work on, once he's solved the gender inequalities of IT

      You may want to Google Steely Neelie Kroes. I am fairly sure that SHE knows a bit about gender - certainly more than you.

      Rosie

    2. Enric Martinez

      Re: The kiss of death

      Err... Mevrouw Kroes is a SHE ;)

    3. Suricou Raven

      Re: The kiss of death

      The standard way is to remind people of the vast wealth to be made. That worked in the dot-com boom, but these days people are able to see through the lie and realise that for every Zuckerburg there are a million code monkeys slaving away and getting paid peanuts.

      I can't be the only IT worker still getting annoyed by the parents demanding to know why I'm not a millionaire yet.

  4. localzuk Silver badge

    Missed the point?

    Why are the EU trying to make out that ICT is a 'cool' industry? Most of the time it definitely isn't.

    Sitting and staring at a screen for 10 hours trying to find the misplaced period in your code is as far from cool as you can get.

    What it can be is fun, yes but more realistically it is more often interesting, its challenging, and can be well paid (but it isn't as well paid as it used to be).

    Why aren't they promoting it on its actual strengths? Rather than trying to make out that women only go into jobs if they're fun or cool?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Missed the point?

      Because they know that women only go into jobs that are percieved to be fun or cool.

      1. Goat Jam

        Re: Missed the point?

        "Because they know that women only go into jobs that are percieved to be fun or cool."

        Nope, women go for jobs that are easy and require little technical ability. Air-conditioning is a mandatory requirement too, obviously.

        With IT you get the aircon it is true, but even drooling Windows helldesk monkeys still need *some* technical chops.

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Devil

          Re: Missed the point?

          Nah. There's plenty of room in IT for drooling mouth breathers. Just work for a larger company where they seek to make any task something that can be accomplished by a trained monkey. Get pigeon holed into a position that neither requires nor offers any real technical challenge apart from reading off of a script.

    2. Paul J Turner
      Joke

      Re: Missed the point?

      "Sitting and staring at a screen for 10 hours trying to find the misplaced period in your code is as far from cool as you can get."

      That's why they need women! Believe me they notice a misplaced period.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Woman's view point

    What does El Reg's very own Ms Stob make of this?

  6. Shady

    Sorry petal...

    ... the cool and fun bit bolted a while back.

    You should've been quicker, luv.

  7. Fading
    Coat

    If ICT was cool and fun.....

    Why is it only us nerds/geeks in here?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rather than trying to get more women into ICT, can't they try and get more talented people regardless of gender? There are far too many people coasting along and dragging teams down

  9. Yugguy

    I can't help but think that if ladies like the above really did work in IT, the only thing they'd attract is more blokes.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The study reckons that if women held digital jobs as frequently as men, EU GDP would be boosted by around €9bn a year."

    Bullshit.

    If the split was 50/50 there would still be the same number of jobs, just less held by men, therefor the amount of money made would remain the same. Or are they saying that people are willing to pay more for software written by someone with a pair of tits? If they are I can point out several male devs around me that should be on a higher hourly charge out rate.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Well obviously...

      it's because women spend more in the shops.

    2. Havin_it
      Joke

      >Or are they saying that people are willing to pay more for software written by someone with a pair of tits?

      Pretty sure the Winklevoss twins work for themselves these days...

  11. Irony Deficient

    Europe is facing a shortage of ICT workers

    Brid-Aine, if it’s anything like most of North America, Europe is facing a shortage of ICT workers at current salaries would be more accurate.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Europe is facing a shortage of ICT workers

      "...at current salaries..."

      Exactly.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Give coding a try, see how fun it can be!"

    If steelie thinks coding is fun, I'm not going to one of her fun weekends!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But when you introduce women into the office, I can't swear, fart, belch, shout, etc....

    So no keep them out, unless they are not the sweet princess type! A woman that knows how to handle a screw driver is my type of girl. Legs to the their false eye lashes and 25mm thick makeup we don't want.

    1. Rosie Davies

      Sweetness you can fart and belch and shout as much as you like. So long as you know your cat5 from your cheezburgers and your AD from your ADHD it's all tidy.

      Rosie

  14. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

    I love the way...

    That that have reduced the whole of the ICT to sector to "coding apps".

    Fucktards.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    > after a study claimed that the lack of women in ICT roles was costing the European Union billions of euros.

    When I read this I thought they were trying to say that more women in IT would result in lower wages.

    At least I *hope* that's not what they're saying.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      As the EU leadership doesn't think that childraising is an activity of any particular merit whatsoever (should the population drop, one can just import little brown people from abroad), moving large chunks of the female population into Socialistically Powerful Worker Positions will embiggen the Yurop's GDP immensely and make it The Powerhouse of Intellectual Endeavours Worldwide!! This will pay down the monstrously grown incubating xenomorphs of state and private debt, assure the inflated salaries of the 30% working in nonproductive state jobs via appropriate tax revenues, and, if allied with cunning inflationary manoeuvers, enable the payout of the much-promised pensions at nominal values.

      VICTORY HAIL!

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Last thing you want to do...

    ...is to encourage anyone to get a job in IT. Shit managers, shit hours, under paid, under appreciated, over worked, crappy bean counters who won't invest, crappy users, crappy suppliers, crappy software, danger of being outsourced ; the list goes on.

    After 23 years working in IT as a developer and as an IT manager for the last 3 years I'm thoroughly pissed off with it and regret the day when I was a teenager I decided my career was to work in IT. Damn the BBC's Computer Literacy Project in the 80s.

    I'm so trying to encourage my son to head into almost any other career.

    1. Vanir

      Re: Last thing you want to do...

      You forgot the:

      bad health; sitting on your arse for those 'shit hours', staring at screens for those 'shit hours', commuting hours each day to do these 'shit hours'.

      crap family life.

      crap social life.

      I have no excuse of being a teenager to going in to programming; I was 37, I was under the delusion that programming was a very professional and rigorous arena of employment.

      Software engineering? Yeah, right. Like 'free markets' in which a shortage of something means the price of that some something goes down. Go figure and explain both to anyone thinking of taking up a career in programming.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: Last thing you want to do...

        Either you're into it or not. In the Soviet Union, there was no economic value to being an engineer. You were actually shat on pretty hard really. So you didn't enter that profession unless you were really into it and simply didn't want to another sort of (manual labor) job.

        IT today in the West is the same way. It's something you do because you are into it and that will make up for the crap you have to take.

        Try to work against this and people will just flee the profession as soon as they realize they've been conned.

    2. Mike Smith
      Thumb Up

      Not forgetting the...

      ... idiots who think that being able to use MyTwitSpace and run Microsoft Office puts them on a par with us 'umble grunts who actually know how computers work and whose coding skills go a bit deeper than FrontPage. If I had a fiver for every time I've seen the DTR light turn off when trying to explain a simple technical concept to PowerPoint jockeys who call themselves technical project managers or enterprise architects, I'd have retired a long time ago.

    3. Vociferous

      Re: Last thing you want to do...

      > Shit managers, shit hours, under paid, under appreciated, over worked, crappy bean counters who won't invest, crappy users, crappy suppliers, crappy software, danger of being outsourced

      What lines of work is this NOT true of? I know it's true in health care, the pharmaceutical industry, education, energy production, military, and government. Been there, seen that.

  17. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Maybe a triumph!

    Isn't that Chell from Portal???

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