back to article Microsoft loses grip on Christmas shoppers... despite XBox boost

Microsoft's second quarter results, posted on Thursday, reveal that the software giant struggled in the sexy world of devices during the all-important Christmas shopping period. These are the first numbers indicating how the battle between PCs and smart devices played out over the battleground for consumers' wallets that is …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

          1. Bladeforce

            Re: And still I have yet to see a Windows phone in the wild

            I went to a concert the other day and didnt see one windows phone, yet i saw an equal amount of android and iphones. NOT ONE, its laughable how bad the fanboys twist the pathetic sales to their liking. Aint seen a surface of any kind either as a matter of fact

            1. James O'Shea

              Re: And still I have yet to see a Windows phone in the wild

              I am a former WinPhone user. I finally had enough and dumped my old Samsung Omnia in favor of an iPhone. I've seen fewer and fewer WinPhones over the three+ years since I dumped mine. So far this year I have seen 0.000 WinPhones in the wild. And, no, I didn't see very many (under a half dozen, I think, I didn't keep count) last year. I _have_ seen WinPhones in cellphone stores, usually being ignored.

              Surfaces, now, those I've seen. I know three people who have Surfaces. One curses the day he got it. One loves it. One is about midway between. I've seen a few other Surfaces around. Not very many, though, the total number of Surfaces in the wild is dwarfed by the number of iPads and Android tablets.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Open your eyes.

          Not all Windows Phones are bright yellow.

          Regardless, there are around 8 million sold in a quarter. There are around 40 million in use. There are 24 countries where they outsell iPhone (you may not consider them major markets necessarily, but the fact remains).

          On a more personal level, I use a 720 and a 925. A new starter in our department arrived with a Windows Phone. In my last role around a third of the phones were Lumia.

          On a familial level, my cousin has just got a 620. My aunt has announced she wants one as her next phone as a result.

          On a wider level, Lumias are advertised in mobile phone shop windows. They don't waste space on what doesn't sell. The last time I was in Phones4U the lady next to me was buying a 520. On the train to work I regularly see Lumias.

          Yes, the iPhones and Androids vastly outnumber them. That's not the point though. They are out there in the wild, selling, and growing in usage.

          Perhaps try dropping the really sad tribal outlook, and genuinely open your eyes.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Open your eyes.

            > On a familial level, my cousin has just got a 620. My aunt has announced she wants one as her next phone as a result.

            You again.

    1. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: And still I have yet to see a Windows phone in the wild

      Someone in our office has one. He uses it as a telephone only though, and I have no idea why he doesn't just get the cheapest Nokia dumb phone.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What the Phone/Tablet numberts show

    1 - Crap, no matter how pretty the ribbon it is wrapped in is still crap

    2 - Even crap will sell if it is cheap enough

    1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: What the Phone/Tablet numberts show

      And that sheep will still swallow the Google Koolaid, especially if it's cheaper.

    2. Piro Silver badge

      Re: What the Phone/Tablet numberts show

      2 - Oh yeah, no shit.

      I bought HP TouchPad at £99 like it was the hottest thing around.

    3. itzman

      Re: What the Phone/Tablet numberts show

      Conversely if its expensive crap it won't sell at all.

  2. Forget It

    Microsoft isn't just fro Xmas...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Xbox

    Getting reamed by Sony on Xmas sakes and specs

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RT slab price

    While the tablets were pricey, the cuts weren't as much as the article states.

    A 75% cut resulting in a $200 final price means a starting price of $800. You mean ~45% cut in price (still a large cut). You don't take the final price and use it as the denominator (with the price cut as the numerator). You use the original price as the denominator.

    It was a tempting purchase, but I'm waiting for a MS fondleslab that uses SDXC at about the same price point.

  5. Tom 35

    as consumers have generally stopped buying PCs

    Or maybe that should be...as consumers have generally never started buying Windows 8.

    1. itzman

      Re: as consumers have generally stopped buying PCs

      It is that, but it's more. These are gross generalisations, forgive me, but they are 'approximately true'

      1/. domestic users aren't buying uprated PCS. They are overwhemingly buying tablets, e-readers smart TVs and smart phones. PC's are dull boring and old hat.

      2/. Corporations are not buying new PCs either. This is an interesting point I will expand on. Because I used to be one of those business owners who did buy new PC's every year. With windows on.

      I bought new because the old either wore out, (4 years was good going for a PC) or simply were not up to the task of running the new and better versions of the applications we needed to run a business.

      But at a given point, both the PCs and the applications were simply 'good enough' to run, essentially forever. I have bought the 'budget motherboard' from my favourite clone supplier for almost 20 years now. Both as a corporate buyer and as an end user, and what I have noted in the last few years is that the same money no longer buys me more than it did 4-5 years ago. In fact I cant get a machine at all quite as cheap as I used to, and it is very little faster. OK SSD and a bit more RAM helps, but program load times and the ability to have many programs alive at once is not an overwhelming issue.

      So we are running to the end of Moores law it seems. No longer is there an implicit guarantee that today's PC will be 4 times faster than a four year old one.

      And now look at the applications in teh enterprise. Overwhelmingly what people were using in my company were:

      - interface to a database. That used to be telnet into a Unix box, today its a browser into an SQL server.

      - mail and contacts and meetings, word processing, the spreadsheet for some.. In other words MS office.

      - specialist job related apps. Graphics for the creatives, IDEs for the techies, and so on.

      Now it is probably true to say that actually all these applications are fully mature. There is no NEED to develop them beyond bug fixes. And that is why millions of copies of XP are still running with a 7 year old office suite or later, and running old and still very usable versions of mature specialist apps. Its good enough.

      In short, in the corporate marketplace, computerisation has at the applications level reached full maturity. There is no need for more 'features'.

      Likewise the hardware has reached a plateau.

      Students of marketing theory realise this is symptomatic of when a given market sector moves from 'rising star' to 'cash cow' phase, and then perhaps even beyond it to a 'maintenance replacement and support ' phase.

      Corporate buyers are ultimately driven by ROI. If buying this years PC with this years MS offering offers nothing they can't do on XP, they will stay with XP until the hardware gasps and dies. I am still running an ageing copy of XP in a VM together with three Windows apps, all equally venerable, simply because they are GOOD ENOUGH for my needs.

      And money is tight.

      This is I think the key to understanding the issues that face Microsoft. The hardware and the software is mature, in the corporate environment. There are no more productivity gains to be had. My brother in law who manages big IT transitions, says that the activity is overwhelmingly happening in the server room,. where multiple divisional servers are now virtual machines in a few large blade type platforms. and the new server side apps are Linux based.

      Microsft and windows have to transition from a 'more sales every year, guaranteed' to a 'fewer sales every year, and replacement and support' mentality.

      Or find a new pond. They are too late to dominate the new consumer devices and there is no new pond in corporate sales, or its shifted in emphasis from machines on desktops to network and server technology - an area they have always been weak in anyway.

      That is Microsoft has done the job we wanted it to do and needed it to do: provided a standardised operating system interface on cheap hardware to allow the proliferation of single user applications throughout business. Thanks, but now that's done we don't actually need them to do it any more.

      They are sitting on a cash pile of epic proportions, but they have nothing left to spend it on.

      If I were they, I'd be buying back shares as fast as possible and getting ready to privatise the thing in order to be able to take it in a new risky direction, if that's what the directors wanted.

      Otherwise what faces Microsoft is a slow decline in significance until its basically broken up and sold for scrap as is the fate of so many players in the game.

  6. Vance P. Frickey

    Microsoft doesn't even know what it has to sell!

    By inexorably refusing to support Windows XP this year, Microsoft will be handing a ton of business to Rick Shuttlesworth and other linux platform vendors. There's a massive installed base of computers that'll run XP (all of mine, for example) but not Windows 7 or 8 because Windows has become irretrievably bloated in its latest incarnations. This installed base includes an astonishing number of bank automated teller machines (ATMs). So Microsoft has only itself to blame for a very short-sighted decision to try and force its customers to buy both new hardware AND new software during the worst recession since 1957-1958, or perhaps the 1970s. The banks will certainly remember Microsoft leaving them high and dry, and while THEY can afford to retool, you can rest assured they'll reconsider trusting their business to Microsoft when Microsoft forced them to retool in the first place. So will many of us less well-heeled customers.

  7. Adus

    My experience with Windows Phone

    I had a Samsung Focus Windows Phone 7 and really liked it. After 2 years it was still working perfectly and did everything I wanted it to. The app ecosystem sucked, but as a "first" attempt at mobile (at least modern smartphones), I was really impressed. I saw great things coming for WP in future..

    When Windows Phone 8 came out, I took the upgrade and went with the Nokia Lumia 920.

    I was disappointed that WP8 didn't solve many of the problems with 7 and the ecosystem is no better. Even worse, the phone started falling apart after a year, constantly saying I had no sim card, audio dying all the time etc.

    In the end, I just switched to an iPhone 5S. The first apple product I've bought since the 3GS.

    I really, really wanted to like Windows Phone. The idea of an ecosystem of Windows on my PC, Laptop, Tablet, Phone and Xbox is really appealing to be. But unfortunately WP8 and Windows RT are not improving nearly fast enough given the competition. The ecosystem on both sucks and it's going to be hard to convince developers to target devices with such low marketshare.

    1. Richard Barnes

      Re: My experience with Windows Phone

      Over the last couple of years, I've had a Samsung Galaxy S2 as a personal phone and an iPhone 5 as a work phone. The S2 was OK, but battery life was poor to mediocre even with batterysaver apps activated, the screen was so-so and I found Android slightly hard work. The iPhone had the same mediocre battery life and the great screen and app ecosystem, but it was absolutely useless as a phone both where I live and work - dropped calls all the time.

      Now I have a Nokia Lumia 720. The app ecosystem is obviously not as good and there are some annoying gaps, but it has all the basics plus a much better battery life, better onboard keyboard for typing (similar to the ones available for Android) and MUCH better call quality (with the same network provider). No dropped calls now. Haven't had the phone for long, so can't comment on build quality, but to be honest it does feel a little plasticky.

      So what I think I really want is an iPhone with the battery life and call quality of the Lumia, Any chances do you think?

      1. jonathanb Silver badge

        Re: My experience with Windows Phone

        My Galaxy Note 2 has an excellent battery life, and reports suggest that the Note 3 has a similarly good battery life. It seems that a larger screen means more space for a bigger battery behind it, and the extra capacity on that battery more than offsets the additional power demands of the larger screen.

  8. Hans 1
    Happy

    Windows Phone

    I saw one yesterday, in the wild ....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows Phone

      Was it gathering dust in Swag Converters "premium" display case?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I have seen a few in the wild. But I certainly see more Symbian phones still in use. Certainly the number of BlackBerrys I see is far higher. At work (out of a staff of a couple of hundred) I have seen one WP7 and one WP8 device. And one Arm Surface (bought cheap from a mate.)

    I know of none amongst my close friends and family.

    I have seen a few posted with Lumia type entries on Facebook (1 in 50??) But I know one of those has now moved from WP7 to android.

    Every Symbian user I know has either stuck with the phone or moved to Android. (A win for MS, but not for Nokia).

    The problem isn't really going to be how well WP works (let's face it, the fact that desktop windows actually works at all with all the crap it has loaded tends to imply the core itself must actually be pretty damn good, and if you could just dispose of it all, you'd get a good system). The problem is Microsoft's long history of dropping support for any platform that isn't x86. There are numerous desktop/server platforms that Microsoft launched on and then dropped.

    On phones, they do not offer any continuity between the numbered versions of their platform.

    Windows phone 7 and Windows mobile 6 were really just different platforms (sharing the same core I think).

    Phones could not be upgraded to the new platform and the software was not compatible between the two.

    A similar situation exists between WP7 and 8, although supposedly WP7 software runs on WP8, but since software can only be loaded via its app store, who knows whether that involves automatic recompilation, or a rewrite by the authors? It seems unlikely that WP7 phones will run WP8 software by the same process. (Perhaps someone who knows the answer to this can comment, and answer whether WP7 is a burnt platform).

    It seems likely to me that the current situation of WinRT and WP8 being separate platforms isn't sustainable.

    So the next version will likely support both tablets and phones, but will existing RT and WP8 then be in the same situation that WP7 is now?

    Or more to the point are the devices cheap enough to take that risk?

    I know if I had a phone with a 40 megapixel camera, I would be pretty annoyed if the OS were burnt. (It's annoying enough that the N8 has had the plugs pulled earlier than promised.)

    At least iOS devices usually get one or two OS upgrades, and there is reasonable compatibility between apps and OS versions. (Android has similar app compatibility, but upgrades seem far less common than they should be, but at least there's cyanogen mod.)

  10. PeterM42
    Happy

    It's mainly a matter of time.......

    .....before Android is established on desktops/laptops. Then Microsoft will become part of computing history.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's mainly a matter of time.......

      Chromebooks are already outselling Windows 8 laptops. Microsoft are already history.

    2. itzman

      Re: It's mainly a matter of time.......

      Android on a desktop = linux.

      In all but name.

      What is android beyond a pretty face on linux that is adapted to the exigencies of running on 'small' hardware with touch screens.

      Take away the small hardware and the touch screens and it looks very like Linux in one of its more popular incarnations.

      1. Darren Forster

        Re: It's mainly a matter of time.......

        You seen Chrome Books then - it's Android for a Netbook!

  11. Firvulag

    Surface 2 is actually pretty good if you give it a chance - MS playing for the long term.

    Ok before the apple/android hysteria fan starts. I have an iPhone as my work phone, Galaxy Note II as my own phone and the use of my wife's iPad (when she lets me). It also have >25 years IT experience on various bits of kit.

    When it came to get a PC for my mum who needed some form of simple PC device the best choice was a Surface2. After helping her learn to use it I liked it so much I bought one for myself. I use either smartphone for remote control type apps and the surface for everything else. I only very occasionally fire up my laptop or main PC when at home. This weekend I had it hooked up to our main telly in split screen mode (via a £3 micro HDMI cable) while we looked up holiday hotels in the browser and associated emails / onenotes in the other. Doing it on an ios / android device would have been a pain as I would have been constantly swapping screens.

    I appreciate its not everyone's favourite but it is worth considering your needs and requirements before following the pack - you may be surprised. I know I was. The original Surface RT was DOA but there have been enough improvements to make it worth a look. I think MS will keep making improvements and with every W8 PC able to run TIFKAM apps (that's a big marketplace) the more quality apps will eventually come. I think over time they will grow market share but will likely still be 3rd place (but a more significant 3rd).

    These are the things I like:

    - (Just) Enough key apps (e.g flipboard, facebook, deezer, iTunes remote)

    - File management

    - VPN Tunnelling (to my work)

    - Good detachable keyboard

    - Easy to use essential apps (email, facebook etc)

    - Split screen

    - Windows Remote Assistance (to help my mum if she gets stuck)

    - Full Web Browser

    - Office 2013

    - USB

    - Flipping between apps is faster and easier than I find it in android or ios (simple swipe)

    - HDMI out (can also Play to Smart TVs directly)

    - No AV needed (unlike full windows)

    - Kickstand is actually pretty useful especially as its not as light as an ipad.

  12. Hans 1

    Why ActiveDirectory is bad and GroupPolicy is Easy to Implement with anything

    AD is bad because you cannot easily extend it to support other platforms. Take any free LDAP implementation like OpenLDAP or ApacheDS, LOL, and you have an easily managed LDAP implementation that you, on *NIX, integrate into Samba for interoperability with Windows. Easily extended with vi or notepad ....

    Plus, Linux clients allow top-of-the-league fileshare, sshfs anyone ? encrypted fileshares, with key auth ... man, cannot be beat and samba outperforms ANY windows server version, when it comes to IO. Now you know why I call you window cleaners.

    GroupPolicy ? Window cleaners, group policy is a set of registry keys you can set with anything (cmd.exe, VBS, powershell ....) all it takes is an hour or two to gather the registry keys you want set (it would take me 20 mins, but that is because I know this stuff). You save $k's.

    So, Apple would be in each and every server room if window cleaners had common sense, after all, they want a ui they can use with a mouse ... unfortunately, a one time 3000 bucks per domain controller server was apparently a too good to be true or you lacked a calculator, too late, Apple dumped Xserve.

    I guess you can still implement it on *NIX, but you will need typing lessons - two fingers is not enough. Fluency in typing can help you outperform any MCSE with a mouse. I can outperform any Windows admin, I am sure, but then again I am cheating, my job is automation ... ;-)

    BTW, why do I never mention an "endpoint management system" ? Because any will outperform AD, mainly because AD is standard, to even dream of a tiny marketshare, you have to outperform that piece of shit like hell ... I use puppy, YMMV - most are free ... so what are you paying for ?

  13. Darren Forster

    Windows RT tablet - give me Android any day!!!

    I'm an IT technician and was called to sort someones tablet out a few weeks ago.

    It was one of those Windows 8 RT things. I thought can't be that hard to help her, all she wanted was to remove some of the icons from the start menu.

    So I started dragging the icons expecting to see some kind of dustbin or something I could put them in to get rid of them....

    Ok where's the dustbin....

    Looked on the net - the solution is to right click on the icon and click remove from start menu (having used Windows 8 on my home PC I already knew this - but there is one problem - there is no right mouse button on a tablet!).

    So I started hunting around the tablet trying to find some kind of extra button other than the "Windows Start Menu" button that might work as a right click....

    Some other website said swipe downwards on the icon to bring up the right click menu.... tried that and all that happened was the icon whizzed off somewhere else on the start menu.

    Eventually after about 30 minutes of playing with the thing (and by this time if it was mine it would have been through the window by now - it's like a very expensive version of one of those metal puzzles everyone gets you at Christmas to see how long it takes you to figure out), I found out how to get the right menu up... well nearly..

    I watched Youtube videos on how to do it and all they were doing was swiping downwards and no matter how I tried it, it just moved the icons everywhere, and then at one point I got the swipe down just right. I was like yay!!! I've got it....

    So I deleted that icon for her, and proceeded to the next - oh wait I haven't got it... another 30 minutes later (really losing my patience with it now) and many more swipes I finally figure it out. You have to swipe down slightly to the right of the icon at a precise point between that icon and the next icon to bring up the right menu options (easy enough once you know exactly where to swipe - why not just make the interface like a twister board and get people to press the twister pads in a certain order for it to do something - surely even that would be easier!)

    After that I'd got the hang of it and the lady said to me I'm glad I've got you here because I'd never have figured it out.... isn't Microsoft supposed to make things easy for the general public to use - if it even takes a technician an hour to figure it out what chance has the general public got? Did they even test this on real people before selling it. I know some will say it was probably somewhere in the manual, but you want a device that's easy and simple to use when you pick it up, not something that you've got to read a 1,000 page manual to get an idea of how everything works, I haven't even read the manual to my car and that's more complex than this, but most of it's switches are self explanatory (except the one for dimming the dashboard - that did take me a while to figure out 'cos it's symbol is the same as cruise control on my previous car!)

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like