Samsung Galaxy Note 3 region-locking saga CLEAR AS MUD

Re: KitKat, grey areas and clear English

On existing devices? Well, I'm glad that won't result in an extremely predictable class action lawsuit.

Re: And people say that Samsung is a copycat

Well actually, I have to defend Apple on this one (sorry). Bought a Mac, and can swap the language and regional settings between any option my iPos Touch too (don't know about the phone version of the iPod). Bought a PC with MS windows. The language is fixed - to change it you have to buy a new copy of MS Windows.

Re: Greedy Bastards

It's all about the "grey" market, which has been going on the high-tech gear for as long as I can remember. I first saw it with cameras, where there were different model numbers in the USA and UK for the same camera, and different prices.

But at least the film was the same size, and used the same photons.

If you import a phone from the USA, does it use the same frequencies? Is it lawful to sell it in Europe?

This might not be just corporate greed. But if you were in Europe, and bought one of these phones in the belief you could use it in the USA when you visited, it looks as though you have a chance of getting your money back.

Re: "...the optimal mobile experience...." @Andus McCoatover

Welcome to the Samsung Geographical Advantage.

Re: Grey market move

"If you personal import from Malaysia/China, I'm sure the seller will activate it first with a local sim before shipping in the same way that they set the default language to English for you now."

But if these reports are correct that won't work - you would have to have the phone activated in China with *your* SIM.

It looks like this move specifically aims to prevent grey market imports.

Re: VietNam has cell hangset locking legislation ...

"I also wonder what the legality is on buying a Note 2 handset bought from an independent (non-Cellco) authorised dealer which is then restricted?"

Dunno if its legal, but as someone who has an unlocked Note 2 if the next software upgrade introduces this restriction its the last Samsung phone I buy.

That's the key advantage of Android for me - I can buy my next handset from another vendor, disable their bloatware, install my own launcher and I have pretty much exactly the same phone software-wise.

Hardware makers are close to being interchangeable in the Android world, its not like Apple where they can do what they want and you either accept or change OS...

Re: VietNam has cell handset locking legislation UPDATE

I continued my search for the elusive unlocked Note 3 on Saturday evening and have found some more information on this lock.

An "unlocked" Note 3 has to be INITIALLY LOADED WITH A SIM FROM THE REGION OF PURCHASE and after that it can be used globally.

However, if purchased under a term contract it will remain locked to that particular cellco. Cellco contracts are not exactly popular out here in the Far East.

I went to a notorious discounter in Ho Chi Minh City on Saturday night and they had Note 3 advertising on their window but it had a large winking eye on the poster.

Th salesman, who spoke fluent English, showed me that after being initialised with a local SIM (which they do for you) you can insert a Rogers Canada, or an AT&T SIM with full functionality, then you can re-insert a VN SIM and it, too, is fine.

My 'friendly' salesman said they had carefully opened up all 19 units they had for sale and had initialised them with a VN SIM

As I mentioned above the Note 3 is listed for VN Dong 16,900,000 including 10% VAT, BUT IT MUST BE PAID FOR IN CASH.

The deal this rogue offered was the Samsung fixed price (16 GB) and after filling in a customer information form, he then issued a VAT rebate form AND he refunded IN CASH the VAT amount PLUS he through in a Samsung case (retail value VN Dong 600,000). VAT is a strange subject in VietNam as there are so many ways to avoid it.

He cannot discount the unit price. Other dealers are issuing Discount Coupons which can be used for other purchases or a cash payout.

I realised, after reading press reports this Samsung scheme had been in effect since 2013 July, a Canadian friend who had bought a 'restricted' S4 in VN had experienced no problems after returning home.

WHAT or HOW Samsung hopes to achieve with this is hard to understand since once a unit has been initialised with a appropriate SIM, the grey market can thrive as usual.

I now own a black version, with my free case, and am supposedly free to roam.

EU and US competition issues?

The EU and US competition issues could be relevant to explore if the region lock is not formally confirmed to be anything other than a one-time activation test.

Question if a region lock is less about restricting grey/parallel imports into countries outside out of the Europe/US (cheap imports into the US/Europe might arguably be expected to be more of an issue!) and more about leveraging the ability of the phone manufacturer to lock out certain carriers based in countries outside the region in which the phone was sold, while not blocking access to any carrier within the region where the product was sold. Such a lock-out could presumably have significant value to a manufacturer with a material or dominant market share - follow the money?

If the carriers not based in region complain about the region lock in a court in the local jurisdiction/region where product sold, then hand on heart the manufacturer could argue that:

- it was not engaging in anti-competitive behaviour in that jurisdiction as the region lock did not restrict any carrier at all in that region from having its SIM used in that product; and

- anti-competitive behaviour affecting a completely different region of the world is not something a local court in the region where the product was sold would have any jurisdiction to deal with - courts can only deal with their own local laws.

On the other hand if disadvantaged carriers complain in their own region about the terms on which a product is being sold in a completely different region that may be something which its local courts feel is outside of their own jurisdiction as the offending sale is to a consumer in a totally different region by a person in that different region on terms agreed between that consumer and seller.

Meanwhile, the manufacturer might argue that consumers buying product suffer no damage in being limited in choice of carrier outside home region as they were expressly warned about compatibility issues for SIMs outside the local region in advance of buying the phone (or, potentially/hypothetically in case of Kitkat, downloading the software) and accepted the condition.

I genuinely hope that this region lock idea of Samsung is a single use test and there is nothing more to it. However, until there is real clarity on the issue I guess there has got to be the chance that the corporate policy to install the region lock in all if not most of its key mobile products including existing ones which wish to upgrade to Kitkat, might have a more commercial, consumer unfriendly motive.

Re: Is this why? @ Mik_ul

To take the example you cite, if the EU is meant to be a single market, the efficient German retailer with his lower prices is being artificially disadvantaged. Samsung's products being crippled prevents our German taking advantage of the common market.

However, as I recall, Levi Strauss and the French toiletries companies has been successful in blocking parallel imports by Tesco and Superdrug.

Re: Is this why?

As the UK and Germany are both countries within the EU, the region lock on a European region Note 3 in your example should have no impact. A SIM issued by an operator in either the UK or Germany should suffice equally well to activate the phone.

Your point is very relevant though if, as say a Russian resident from outside the defined European region, you ordered a Note 3 from amazon.de without arranging its activation first with a SIM issued by an operator within the European region countries listed on the legal notice. Two possibilites seem relevant:

- If you have first arranged for it to be activated with a SIM issued by an operator within the European region (whether in Germany, UK, ireland, Monaco etc etc) and amazon.de then delivered the activated phone to you in Russia, the region lock might still prevent you using it with a SIM issued by an operator based in Russia (as that operator is not in the European region countries listed on the legal notice). The success of this route ultimately depends on whether the region lock really turns out to block (or not to block) other SIMs issued outside the European region which you wish to use in the phone after its initial activation.

- Another option may be to ship the phone from Germany to you in Russia without activation at all. And then go to a local Samsung service centre in Russia to have the restriction removed. Apparently they may do this and presumably thereby change the home region of the region lock.

However, this begs the question as to the purpose of the region lock in the first place if, as in the above example, the region lock does not in practice prevent grey imports to countries outside the European or US home region. An alternate possible explanation for its purpose might be to allow the manufacturer to cause well-off phone owners from the European (or US) region travelling outside their particular home region only to be able to use SIMs in their phones issued by networks in countries outside their home region if the network is approved by Samsung and an exception for that approved network is embedded in the software implementing the region lock that would otherwise block networks in such countries. The European (or US) owners could then find themselves only able to use their Samsung phone outside their home region with certain network carriers (pre-approved/not blocked by Samsung) which carriers might be very grateful for less competition to provide local SIMs to such travellers.

Hopefully this is not a purpose of the region lock and the region lock will be clarified by Samsung Global not to apply following the very first activation of the phone, if at all.

Yes, it is

the beginning of the end for Samsung. Samsung, like Nokia, only have the brand name. Chinese manufacturers are starting to eat their lunch because distribution can be as powerful as brand. This is making Samsung nervous and twitchy. This completely idiotic move proves that the same management disease that infected Nokia has infected Samsung as well.