back to article Google scientists rebel over company's support for 'climate-hoax' Senator

In 2011 Google appointed 21 Google Science Communication Fellows (GSCF) – academics representing the cream of US climate-change science – and tasked them with exploring new ways of communicating the issue to the public. On Thursday, 17 of the GSCF did just that, and called out Google for its own failings in an open letter. …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

  1. Don Jefe

    Conspiracy Trifecta

    This Inhofe guy only needs one more conspiracy theory and/or shadowy figure to hit the Conspiracy Trifecta. We've got the UN and the Democrats already, who will he pick to round out his axis of evil?

    -Satan

    -The Illuminati

    -Mexicans

    -Sol (our Sun)

    -Planned Parenthood

    Windows close at midnight. Wager now!

    1. Eddy Ito

      Re: Conspiracy Trifecta

      You'd have to do better than 2:1 on Satan, 5:1 on Sol and the Mexicans and Even on PP.

      I assume he considers himself part of the Illuminati so that's a suckers bet.

    2. MrDamage Silver badge

      Re: Conspiracy Trifecta

      You forgot Dan Brown and the Freemasons double-whammy.

    3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Conspiracy Trifecta

      "We've got the UN and the Democrats already, who will he pick to round out his axis of evil?

      -Satan

      -The Illuminati

      -Mexicans

      -Sol (our Sun)

      -Planned Parenthood

      Windows close at midnight. Wager now!"

      Thumbs up for a nice selection. You really know your SEL's

      It's a tough call but I'll go with Satan by a nose. I've got him pegged as a pro-lifer but I suspect he sees PP as merely a front organisation for "The Beast"

    4. Vociferous

      Re: Conspiracy Trifecta

      The winner is "Hollywood". Hollywood is conspiring to scare the americans into becoming willing slaves to the control of multi-national organizations, like the U.N.

      He's also accused the Obama administration of buying all the ammo so gun owners wont get any.

      Stark barking mad. I'm surprised he hasn't been appointed head of the Science committee yet, that's where the craziest bible-thumpers tend to wind up.

  2. MondoMan

    It pays to check the story "facts" before commenting

    A big premise of this story is that the Google Science Communication Fellows are "...academics representing the cream of US climate-change science..."

    However, if you actually follow the linky and read the story about the Fellows, you find that they are in fact early- to mid- career people interested in getting into the *communication* of climate-change science. These are not the A-team of climate scientists, folks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It pays to check the story "facts" before commenting

      So you're argument is that we should believe one person who reckons that God will keep us safe over 21 folk who only have Ph.D.s in climate-related studies?

    2. Cartman

      Re: It pays to check the story "facts" before commenting

      Science Communication is lefty code for lefty science: Green activists, anti-human, anti-liberty. If you're not skeptical of environmental religion, you're not a real scientist.

      1. Don Jefe
        FAIL

        Re: It pays to check the story "facts" before commenting

        So science miscommunication is right wing Bible based science? Praise Jesus you were here to set us all straight. Dumbass.

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: "you're not a real scientist"

        For fuck's sake, a real scientist is sceptical of ANYTHING that is not proven.

        That is a job requirement.

        Oh, and proven in a Twitter feed or a fucking blog is NOT scientific proof.

        1. Yag
          Thumb Up

          "a real scientist is sceptical of ANYTHING that is not proven"

          Can't upvote that enough. :)

          I'll even go even further by stating that several scientific advances happened when a few scientists were sceptical of something that was supposed to be proven.

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: "a real scientist is sceptical of ANYTHING that is not proven"

            I am enjoying the debate here and wonder if it will re-enact some of the historical wars somewhat. 2 religions going head to head for the amusement of the atheists/agnostics. Lets see which god wins (remembering a joke about the Israelites and Pharaoh and that the christian god drowns the egyptians because the egyptian god is a cat).

            I wonder if a top trumps game has been made out of the competing religions yet?

          2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: "a real scientist is sceptical of ANYTHING that is not proven"

            I'll even go even further by stating that several scientific advances happened when a few scientists were sceptical of something that was supposed to be proven.

            An ideal scientist, in the modern sense, is sceptical1 of everything - or more precisely, acts as a Bayesian reasoner in regard to every hypothesis. Per Descartes' "evil genius" and the like, an ideal scientist knows that his or her own sensory impressions and/or process of reasoning might be corrupted and lead to incorrect conclusions, and thus no purported fact should ever be treated as having probability 1.

            In practice, of course, it's impossible to operate without a great many axiomatic assumptions, and ubiquitous vigilance isn't feasible either. So actual scientists have to relax their sceptism many times a day. But scientific epistemology works best when its practitioners start with the explicit assumption that everything is open to question, then decide which hypotheses to provisionally accept based on their high Bayesian probability. So, for example, a scientist will typically decide to trust sensory impressions at some level (for example when reading the output of scientific instruments); to assume mathematics is consistent; to assume reasoning that seems to be logical in fact is so; and so on.

            But "proven"? That's faith, and is fundamentally non-scientific. So is "disproven".2 What an ideal scientist refers to as "proof" is really only one of two things: the description of a tautological result (eg in mathematics3), or a gloss for "looks like a really high probability of being true, so we'll treat it as true and move on to other things".

            1Or skeptical, if you prefer. Either spelling is etymologically justifiable.

            2Fans of Karl Popper think disproof, or falsification, has special status in scientific epistemology, but that's an inferior model. Under a Bayesian interpretation of scientific epistemology there's no need to give falsification special status. A falsifying result shifts the probability of a hypothesis substantially downward, and that follows from the math, so there's no need to treat it differently from a confirmational result. Any amount of falsification only approaches a probability of 0 for the hypothesis asymptotically, but that's also appropriate, because it's always remotely possible that every single experiment was flawed, for example, so no hypothesis can be rejected absolutely. (See again the evil genius problem.)

            3And that's still subject to interpretive error, distortion of consciousness, etc.

            1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

              Re: "a real scientist is sceptical of ANYTHING that is not proven"

              Exceptionally well explained.

              Hey, kids, take a note - these are not just some outdated rules. Honest skepticism and critical thinking are two important foundations of the modern society. Zealotry belongs to medieval times.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Although El Reg doesn't want to give away the plot

    So there is a plot.

    Movie starring Tom Cruise or it didn't happen.

    1. Bernardo Sviso

      Re: Although El Reg doesn't want to give away the plot

      Or Tom Hanks -- that would do, too.

  4. Jim O'Reilly
    Pint

    Let's stay scientific!

    Recent reports indicate major back-pedalling on AGW by its supporters, and the predicted "ENDOFTHEWORLD" has been delayed a few centuries. Sea levels will rise inches not feet, and the computer models appear to be a little less than accurate, with nearly 20 years of predicted temperature rises missing from the world-wide actual record.

    Perhaps it was those apocalyptic predictions that triggered Sen Inhofe's bible-waving rant.

    Personally, I'd rather stick with facts, and even IPCC's error prone predictions beat out 4000 year old mythology any time!

    1. Lars Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Let's stay scientific!

      Yes, that is what scientist try to and like to do and everybody knows that computer models can and have to improve. But we do have some data to ponder like this by NASA.

      http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130731.html

  5. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    re: ...people on both sides of the political and intellectual spectrum...

    So, that would be the Democrats and Republicans, and also the Einstein's and Inhofe's. Great...

    1. Tom 13

      Re: the Einstein's and Inhofe's

      Are you certain about that? I seem to recall one of Al's more famous quotes was:

      "God does not roll dice."

  6. Martin Budden Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Brave

    Regardless on your views about AGW/CC, you have to admire their courage for standing up and saying their piece. Biting the hand that feeds IT!

  7. tom dial Silver badge

    Let's just say that global warming is a fact, and that people have something to do with it. After all, it seems quite likely true just from gross arguments along the line of greenhouse gases are increasing -> radiative heat loss is declining, while (solar + other) input is staying about the same, so the temperature should adjust upward until the radiative loss balances the (solar + other) input. Everything else, including the dubious accuracy of the various ever more complex models, is detail, although possibly of some use in telling us how long we have before things get quite uncomfortable or, for those on the seacoasts, wet.

    It then becomes reasonable to ask whether the science is good enough to tell us how effective each of a large number of suggested solutions will be. I am skeptical, and that is not the entire question anyhow, as the technical part is the easiest. The hard questions are about what it may be necessary to sacrifice in exchange for mitigation of global warming; and these questions are not technical, but political, and clearly involve agreement among all highly industrialized nations. How likely are China, India, and other rapidly industrializing countries to forego the benefits of high energy use, and how likely is it that North Americans and Europeans will give them up? And given the relative populations, would it make much difference if North America and Europe agreed to return to stone age technology and population?

    The 800 pound gorilla in the room is one or another form of nuclear power, yet that seems, except in France, to be politically unacceptable as long as almost everyone is unwilling to do reasonable risk analysis. So the upshot appears to be that we will continue to burn fossil fuel and muddle through with marginal adjustments as we can.

    And savaging Google for hosting an Imhofe do does not address any real issue. Politics makes for strange alliances, especially where there are only two parties, and global warming is not Google's primary business concern. It is possible that Sen. Imhofe's inclinations on other issues seems to Google more important than his flakiness on the subject of global warming.

    1. DanceMan

      @ tom dial

      Upvoted your post but the 300 pound gorilla is not nuclear power, it's population and the ideal of never-ending 3% annual economic growth. If this planet were expanding 3% annually, this might not be an issue. But it's finite, it's no longer 1880 with a pre industrial revolution size population. Wars, famine and disease used to keep this in check. Pity.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Meh

        @DanceMan

        " it's population and the ideal of never-ending 3% annual economic growth. If this planet were expanding 3% annually, this might not be an issue. "

        Which implies that Earth is the only body that humans can, will or ever exist on.

        That we already harvest most of the power output of biggest fusion reactor within 100 million miles of Earth.

        Neither of those statement is true. When the human race has exhausted those options then I'll start to worry.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: @DanceMan

          Which implies that Earth is the only body that humans can, will or ever exist on.

          That most certainly was not implied. Humans have existed (briefly) on the moon, and that didn't help with population pressure on the Earth in the slightest.

          It is hugely unlikely that it will ever be practical to move any substantial number of people off the Earth. Even under some fantasy "free energy" regime, the logistics and industrial effort are absurd, and there's precious little justification for it. So that ain't gonna help control the planet's population. It's a pulp-SF pipe dream.

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Boffin

            Re: @DanceMan

            "That most certainly was not implied. Humans have existed (briefly) on the moon, and that didn't help with population pressure on the Earth in the slightest."

            That's exactly what is implied.

            That the Earth is the only place that support any reasonable size of population and the only energy sources are those that can be found on planet Earth.

            The energy cost to LEO is about the same as the round trip energy cost of London to Sydney (a fact known by Philip Bono since the late 1960s). An LH2/LO2 system would deposit most of its exhaust back into the atmosphere for recycling. So yes mass migration even using rather pedestrian means (no space elevators or tethers) is possible.

            As for the Earths energy consumption the Earth covers a disk of roughly 127 million square kilometres. That is roughly 1/2.19x 10^9 of the sphere around the Sun at 1 AU.

            Assuming the current Earths energy consumption is about 150 peta watt hours That a sphere at the Earths radius at 10% efficiency would collect 50x more energy than the entire worlds energy consumption.

            The issue is not wheather those resources exist, because they do. The question is can be find a way to exploit them economically?

      2. Yag
        Facepalm

        "Wars, famine and disease used to keep this in check."

        Yeah, a good war, we really need one soon.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: "Wars, famine and disease used to keep this in check."

          Yeah, a good war, we really need one soon.

          You get an F for critical thinking. He didn't say war was desirable; he said they used to help keep populations in check. Clearly the various wars we have going on now are not doing that, so in fact the logical conclusion is that war is not what we need. (A war of sufficient scale to significantly reduce Earth's human population isn't something anyone with sense would wish for.)

          Disease might yet do it - another serious influenza pandemic, for example. Doesn't mean that's desirable either. Ditto various major natural disasters.

          1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

            Re: "Wars, famine and disease used to keep this in check."

            And not only that. Rough times also affect mentality.

            For some, it is an excuse for violence, for others, a necessity to support each other, in order to increase a likelyhood of survival.

            In any case - during wars, people do not bitch about animal rights or CO2 or whatever it is hot this week. They have bigger issues. But in the prosperous times, they are perfectly capable to gnaw each other's throats for just such things.

            We don't really need another war to set our priorities right, do we?

      3. Tom 13

        Re: @ tom dial

        At last an honest Warmist. He admits it at its core it has nothing to do with CO2 and everything to do with too damn many people. So the only solution is The Final Solution. Only we can't do it with gas chambers this time cause that got 'em stopped last time.

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re:"Let's just say that global warming is a fact"

      Let's say it's not.

      Climate change, on the other hand, is.

      Whether it is warming or cooling is something that we simply do not have either the experience or the knowledge to determine at this point in time.

      It is the refusal of that last fact that gives room for lunatics on either side of the fence to rock the boat, so to speak.

  8. Gordon Pryra

    Evidence of the Bible

    "The evidence of the Bible showed that the idea of dangerous man-made climate change was wrong"

    If you can bring yourself to get beyond the "Random book written by evangelical zealots with their own agendas" used as evidence part of the story. He is still talk bollocks. I don't see how he can interpret that parable as showing any such thing.

    Or is this just a case of the same old, l"ets say its in the holy book as no one will ever read it anyway"?

    It pains me that I am still supposed to take people seriously who claim to believe in a supernatural being, do we not have education to counter this crap?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ************************************************************************************************************

    "...

    Spooner

    Tell me then about your wife.

    Hirst

    What wife?

    Spooner

    How beautiful she was, how tender and how true. Tell me with what speed she swung in the air, with what velocity she came off the wicket, whether she was responsive to finger spin, whether you could bowl a shooter with her, or an offbreak with a legbreak action. In other words, did she google?

    ..."

    Harold Pinter, No Man's Land, a Play by Harold Pinter, New York, Grove Press, Inc. 1975 p.32 [copyright 1975 by H. Pinter Limited]

  10. Stephen Gray

    He's forgetting something

    I have no problem with religion, each to their own but I'll just quote from from Rev 11:18 "God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth". If you're going to get God involved, at least read the book fully. Clearly the Biblical God is well aware mankind can indeed ruin the earth. Inhofe is a tit, that's the problem, not that he believes in God.

  11. Vociferous

    In the late 90's, early noughties, Google got a reputation in the USA as being liberal, for instance it had as its slogan "don't be evil". No joke.

    Being perceived as liberal in the USA automatically means that about 30% of the population will boycot you, will organize write-in campaigns to get companies to disown you, and that 50% of Congress will do their best to legislate you out of existence.*

    Google has in recent years tried to compensate. For instance, if you go to the USA edition of Google News, you will find that more than half of the top stories are relayed from Fox News, Wall Street Journal, and Washinton Times - all extremely conservative - while supposedly liberal sources such as New York Times only get "human interest" stories.

    I don't know if Google really is conservative, but in the present climate in USA, all corporations better be, or face the consequences.

    * No, there is no similar movement from the left. Democrat senators do not try to put Fox News out of business, and there aren't hundreds of democrat astroturf organizations organizing write-in campaigns against conservative-leaning companies.

  12. MatsSvensson

    If god (or someone claiming to receive god in his fillings) tells us to do this or that or whatever, who are we to refuse?

    Its only common sense!

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like