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back to article Ex-prez Carter: 'America has no functioning democracy' with PRISM

Former US President Jimmy Carter has applauded the whistle-blowing of Edward Snowden and says the current surveillance state means the US is in dire political straits. "America has no functioning democracy," Carter told a meeting of The Atlantic Bridge in Atlanta on Tuesday, Der Speigel reports. Carter said that Snowden's …

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    1. D-tech
      Reply Icon

      Democracy no more

      Two things I find extraordinary about this Snowden whistle-blowing episode.

      1) How little Americans seem to care that their government has turned into Big Brother, listening to their every word, blatantly ignoring legal restrictions and privacy concerns. "If keeping us under 24x7 surveillance means that we will be safe, it must be OK?"

      2) How blatantly the USA has been showing disregard for democracy and foreign sovereignty, by publicly pressuring numerous countries against providing asylum. Even those like Russia that we would expect to stand up against USA bullying are seen to flinch.

      All gloves are off - the USA is dropping any pretence of being the democratic land of the free and a champion of human rights.

      How can we return to the kindler, gentler world that we would like?

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      1. Anonymous Coward
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        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Democracy no more

        No matter how much I hated Bush and his inability to control spending (he was one of the biggest Liberal spenders in American history), at least when he attempted to take our privacy away he did it in the open. Obama is a hypocrite! "Open government" my ass. This is the most closed government I can remember.

        Would you rather be captured by Bush's government and detained (regardless of their questionable means), or would you rather be killed from the air along with your family and friends that may or may not be involved in your questionable activities?

        Bush was wrong in what he did. Obama is a hypocrite! Extending what Bush did and going much, much further. Take off your Socialist blinders and see him for the Fascist he is!

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      2. Charles 9
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        Re: Democracy no more

        "How can we return to the kindler, gentler world that we would like?"

        Two words: WE CAN'T.

        We're entering a world where one bad man can ruin the rest of us. Knowledge is power, but now knowledge is cheap, too, because we're in an AGE of information. Meanwhile, humans come in all types of personalities: including the homicidal maniac and the paranoid lunatic. Put one of the latter together with the vast sum of human knowledge, and imagine the possibilities. They probably won't be pretty.

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    2. tom dial Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Whoever controls the secrets, controls the government

      Not that the NSA actions are correct, but is there any actual evidence that the NSA, the CIA, or, for that matter, the FBI are blackmailing government officials? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far I have seen claims with little or no support beyond "Hoover did it." Hoover has been gone for over 40 years, and most of his enemies likewise are no longer with us.

      Former President Carter is mistaken, of course. Snowden's spying has stimulated some reexamination, and the US is not a police state. Bradley Manning, no matter how badly treated during pretrial confinement, will not be sentenced to more than life in prison. Julian Assange is free to leave the Ecuadorean embassy any time he is willing answer police questions in Sweden. Edward Snowden could return to the US to face charges; given the publicity and the publicity of Manning's pretrial confinement, it is unlikely he would be tortured or even treated badly, as there is no reason and plenty of people would be watching.

      As for the Congress, we get what we elect, fairly freely. If, as a group, they barely exceed mediocrity, perhaps that is because they represent their constituents rather well.

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  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Interesting

    How Carter now as an ex-prez can speak up and be honest. Have a look at him about Israel.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUt7P55DIRc

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    1. James12345
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      Paris Hilton

      Re: Interesting

      Watch out, here come the crackpots.

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    2. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Interesting

      Responding to my own post. Less down voted than I expected, try this to calm you down.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUt7P55DIRc

      It is not about being a Jew, it is not about religion, it is about a government. It is about land. It is very much about domestic policy, like every where, sadly. Peace talks (if ever sincere) have stopped because of domestic policy. Peace would define borders, and right now there is nobody strong enough to do it. And I am damned nice to put it this nicely.

      Carter can speak about it now. And I hope, and think, Obama feels the same, but again domestic policy prevents him from being outspoken. What makes me happy, however, is that there is a growing number of people in Israel who understand and seriously want to end a "conflict of no reason". (less so in the USA)

      There was somebody here who told us he thought Carter was a week president. I did so too then. But we compared Carter to previous presidents. The situation now is different, sadly.

      To my mind comes a sentence "If your opinion when 50 is the same as when 20, you have lost 30 years of your life". I think Muhammed Ali is quoted for this. As far as I am concerned it could as well have been Plato.

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  3. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
    Joke

    Malaise Forever!

    "He's history's greatest monster!"

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  4. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. dogged
      Reply Icon
      Stop

      Re: When it comes to the direction of America 'The Simpsons' say it best :-

      May I refer you to the opening nine minutes of The Newsroom?

      "Greatest Country in the World" relies heavily on your definition of "Greatest". During the space race? Possibly. Before or since? Not even slightly.

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      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: When it comes to the direction of America 'The Simpsons' say it best :-

        "Four things we do best: music, movies,microcode (software), high-speed pizza delivery”

        Well one out of four ain't bad

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    2. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      Re: When it comes to the delusion of Americans 'The Simpsons' say it best :-

      D'oh!

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  5. perlcat

    "Carter", "non-functioning" -- in the same sentence.

    You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

    I used to think he was a weathervane for crackpot ideas -- I'm not so sure anymore that there's even that much consistency to his babble.

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    1. Killraven
      Reply Icon

      Re: "Carter", "non-functioning" -- in the same sentence.

      Realizing that it's not saying a lot, but Carter still speaks more intelligently than 98% of Congress.

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  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'Greatest Country in the World' or 'The Fall of Rome'...... On Today's News:

    ..............."Detroit becomes largest US city to file for bankruptcy"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23369573

    ..............."Ex-CIA Milan chief held in Panama over cleric abduction" (Extraordinary Rendition)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23367401

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 'Greatest Country in the World' or 'The Fall of Rome'...... On Today's News:

      What is very amusing is that the CIA in Italy were condemned by a combination of loose talk and the re-use of both SIMS and a mobile with a different SIM but same IMEI (duhhhhhhhhh)

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      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: 'Greatest Country in the World' or 'The Fall of Rome'...... On Today's News:

        Although wearing black polyester suits only speaking English and eating a Big Mac while in Rome probably tipped somebody off.

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  7. CCCP
    Joke

    Damn you interwebs. Battle lines are too blurred..

    Americans, or us Europeans, were never politically wired for this opaqueness... Bring us an enemy and the hords will unite..

    Aliens, we need you! Just a teeny plasma shot at Buenos Aires will do, as in the film. Nothing really bad you understand. Please.

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  8. Rol

    Carry on regardless

    "Oh, what a f##king disaster this is turning out to be"

    "Yes, sir"

    "Cheer me up Smith, tell me you have the next election results ready"

    "Here they are sir"

    "Who the f##k is this?"

    "He's our man sir, totally respects the law, hasn't even got a parking ticket to his name"

    "Yeah, so what have we got on him? Juicy videos? Illicit encounters?"

    "Well nothing sir, he has total respect for the law"

    "Smith you f##king idiot, when I said respect for the law around here, what dim light went on in your turgid little mind? Need I have to remind you WE are the law around here"

    "Sorry sir. Yes you're right, we are the law around here"

    "So, go and find me the next president who would rather see the world turned to irradiated dust, than have his wife see our video of him shagging goats.

    "Err sir, could we go with a foreigner?"

    "What?"

    "I mean, we have loads of nasty videos of British politicians already on file, sir"

    "Mmm, pass me the constitution and our special privileges redaction marker pen"

    "Straight away sir!"

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  9. Naughtyhorse

    While President Carter is a man known for speaking his mind....

    Whereas bush is a chimp known to be a mindless sockpuppet.

    and the carter centre has always been critical of the electoral system used in the states. The article seems to present it as if it's a recent development. I recall when bush stole the first election the cater centre stated that it would never get involved in overseeing an american election [anyway], as the process was fundamentally flawed and open to widespread abuse. This was in 2000 and clearly reflects a position that was long established then.

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  10. TXITMAN
    FAIL

    I had to live through the Carter administration embarrassment and the aftermath. Carter signed into Law FISA. Carter started the secret courts, secret laws, and greatly expanded the secret budget of the NSA.

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    1. 0_Flybert_0
      Reply Icon

      yup .. it's the republica ... oh wait ..

      correct you are sir ! .. and also the Democrats held a super majority ( over 60% ) in both houses in 1978

      IIRC .. shortly after these secret courts were established .. Carter revealed the existence of the Top Secret SR-71 Spy plane .. Air Force intel and the CIA were not happy ..

      In that context .. can understand Carter having empathy with Snowden

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    2. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Not your father's FISA

      FISA's role was greatly expanded and made dramatically more covert with the PATRIOT Act. The original FISA was brought in as a a result of the Church Committee's report on the criminal activities of the CIA & NSA, and was an honest attempt to oversee them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_committee

      Carter was dealt a shitty hand, post-Watergate, oil crisis, stagflation and Iran. Few people could have been re-elected in those circumstances. Still, in terms of standards of living and income inequality, we've not had it so good since his time. See for example:

      http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/09/04/opinion/04reich-graphic.html

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  11. FutureShock999

    CARTER 2016!!!

    You read it here first - he still has a term to serve!!!

    Seriously, my uncle, a US Army Colonel from Georgia (WWII to Vietnam) knew him personally. And of James Carter, he said "he is the smartest man I have ever met, and certainly the smartest President we have ever had". Considering how well travelled my uncle was in his career, that SAYS something (particularly as so many Republican chicken hawks hated Carter - a REAL military man thought the world of him).

    Carter is old, out of favour, and will never be elected. But RIGHT NOW - the US could use a brilliant, moralistic leader that is beyond reproach....what would have happened if he had won a second term?

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    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Pint

      Re: CARTER 2016!!!

      "Seriously, my uncle, a US Army Colonel from Georgia (WWII to Vietnam) knew him personally. And of James Carter, he said "he is the smartest man I have ever met, and certainly the smartest President we have ever had"."

      Well, your uncle migjt like to know that Hunter S Thompson felt the same. HSTs account of hearing Carter speak before his nomination at a ceremony to honour Dean Acheson is hilarious. BUT HST thought it was the best speech he had heard.

      Seriously, 'three hops' means n^4 where n is the number of contacts in your phone. A quick survey around the office suggests that is 160000 third hop contacts per person...

      As there is no Wild Turkey icon, I'll use the beer one.

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  12. Tony Green

    Carter's one of very few Americans for whom I have ANY respect

    Not only the only post WW2 US president to never attack another country, but apparently still virtually the only US politician with even the slightest vestige of human decency and honesty.

    Though somewhat deluded if he believes the US has ever had any "moral authority".

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    1. James12345
      Reply Icon

      Re: Carter's one of very few Americans for whom I have ANY respect

      Stop being a bigot and work on your superiority complex.

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  13. Tomato42

    Where did I put this , wait a second... damn, I was sure I left it here.... Oh, here it is, just under the "rational religious extremist", must have used it more recently.. .

    Suddenoutbreakofcommonsense

    Seriously, if people run away from your country and ask for asylum in China and Russia, something went horribly wrong.

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    1. SleepyJohn
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      Black Helicopters

      An American seeking Political Asylum in Russia? You couldn't make it up

      "Seriously, if people run away from your country and ask for asylum in China and Russia, something went horribly wrong"

      I recently read a comment somewhere about American 'justice' in response to someone saying that in civilised countries you are considered innocent until proven guilty:

      "In America you are considered guilty until proven rich"

      Snowden get a fair trial in America? I certainly wouldn't put my money on it. I don't know much about Carter but "America has no functioning democracy" certainly gels with my reading of the news in recent years. The people running that country exhibit the mentality of street-corner gangsters.

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  14. ecofeco Silver badge

    Functional what?

    We haven't had representative anything since the 1980s.

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    1. Don Jefe
      Reply Icon

      Re: Functional what?

      What did we have in 80's?

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      1. Blain Hamon
        Reply Icon

        Re: Functional what?

        Huey Lewis and the News?

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  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Get Carter!

    A true gentleman and an example of what US politics lacks.

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  16. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Dubya : "it's going to take awhile for the objective historians to show up"

    And when they do, they will objectively tear you a new one. You are going down as the hinging point that turned the USA from a democratic state to a police state.

    Your conscience is clear ? A Muppet doesn't have a conscience !

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dubya : "it's going to take awhile for the objective historians to show up"

      He meant, It's going to take a while for the propaganda 'historians' that usually rewrite history to suit the rich & powerful make me look good. And he's right but it will happen. Look at some of the things they teach kids today about not questioning the official version of events.

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      1. Peladon
        Reply Icon

        Re: Dubya : "it's going to take awhile for the objective historians to show up"

        Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest do not happen at all: the conscientious historian will correct these defects.

        —Herodotus, The History of Herodotus

        Isn't it amazing the way the future succeeds in creating an appropriate past?

        —John Leonard

        History. Just a big damn pot, and sometimes it needs stirring. Me? I'm a spoon.

        —Jack Shadow

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    2. Grikath
      Reply Icon

      Re: Dubya : "it's going to take awhile for the objective historians to show up"

      it is the modern equivalent of "Wir haben es nicht gewusst.."

      There are plenty of objective historians and observers around nowadays. But since they're mostly non-US historians, they do not count, of course..

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  17. BornToWin

    no surprise here

    Carter was booted from office because he is a highly educated individual who is an idealist and out of touch with reality. He lives in a 1950's world, not the modern world.

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    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Reply Icon
      Meh

      Re: no surprise here

      "Carter was booted from office because he is a highly educated individual who is an idealist and out of touch with reality. He lives in a 1950's world, not the modern world."

      The big thing was the almighty clusterf**k that was the Iranian embassy siege when 33 Americans got held hostage and the rescue attempt when sideways.

      Rumours that Bush Snr paid off the Ayatollahs to hang onto the them until after the election are of course no doubt just a conspiracy theory from his long service with the CIA.

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    2. Intractable Potsherd
      Reply Icon

      Re: no surprise here

      And we can't have educated idealists running things, can we? Who knows what might happen!

      The world needs some idealistic statesmen who have a view of the world that doesn't revolve around cynicism and selfishness. People with the strange (to you) notion that things can be better. The USA had the moral authority and the resources to make the world a better place, but it spaffed it up the wall with the first Iraq, and consolidated it with the second excursion.

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    3. Geoffrey W
      Reply Icon

      Re: no surprise here

      That 1950's world is a fantasy. That was the time when policemen could easily kill people and there was much of that strange fruit hanging from the trees. And reds around every corner and under all the beds.

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  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Ultimately, history will judge the decisions I made," Bush said earlier this month

    Yes, you are now history and the vast majorty of the world think you are a war-monogering, self centred, ignorant prick.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Ultimately, history will judge the decisions I made," Bush said earlier this month

      Only if it suits those that control 'history'. If it doesn't suit them to make it appear like he was an aberration rather than a useful tool he'll be made to look like he did the right thing under difficult circumstances.

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    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Ultimately, history will judge the decisions I made," Bush said earlier this month

      @Lost all faith...

      "Yes, you are now history and the vast majorty of the world think you are a war-monogering, self centred, ignorant prick."

      Very true yet he is still better than obama. Bush did wrong because he is an idiot. Obama does wrong and knows exactly what he is doing.

      If 2 people do something very wrong, one because he doesnt understand and one because he is that malicious which is the most wrong?

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      1. Naughtyhorse
        Reply Icon

        Re: "Ultimately, history will judge the decisions I made," Bush said earlier this month

        "Bush did wrong because he is an idiot."

        Bullshit!

        Are you seriously claiming that the fuckwit bush accidentally transferred a trillion dollars from the treasury into cheney's back pocket?

        Fuckwit by all accounts(well blair thought he was a genius.. but blair is pathologically incapable of telling the truth about anything ), and installed as the fall guy just in case the coup went shit shaped. But nothing in cheneys presidency happened by accident.

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  19. Ben Rosenthal

    " I did what I did. I know the spirit in which I did it."

    No you slack jawed yokel. You will be judged on the results of your actions, not the woolly headed notion you had in mind while you were fucking your people without lube.

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  20. Evan Essence
    Thumb Up

    One of the good guys

    Jimmy Carter is still working strongly for the public good, and he's 88! He gets a huge amount of respect from this Brit.

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  21. James12345

    A sandwich short of a picnic

    Carter lost the plot years ago and anybody listening to what he has to say now needs to wake up and return to reality.

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  22. Rampant Spaniel

    Irony?

    The US submarine named after Carter is alledged to be used by the NSA for 'listening' to undersea cables.

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    1. Don Jefe
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      Happy

      Re: Irony?

      No it is not. The USS Jimmy Carter is deployed for scientific communications research.

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