Boeing has suffered an unfortunate double-whammy after problems with two of its 787 Dreamliner aircraft in the UK on Friday. Ethiopian Airlines 787 Dreamliner fire at Heathrow Fire damage near the 787's tail London's Heathrow Airport was shut for over an hour on Friday evening after an Ethiopian Airlines 787 caught fire …

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1. 1. 1. 1. Thursday 18th July 2013 07:49 GMT Down not across
        
        Coherence, common sense,
        
        "i dont need to be coherant... people who are dont have common sense"
        
        Wow. Just wow.
        
        First of all if you want to make your voice heard, and your potential audience to take notice (especially of the message you are attempting to convey), being coherent is rather vital. A good grammar is also important if you want the message to be understood. Bad grammar tends to lead to posts where the message gets distorted and misunderstood not to mention quite tedious to try to read if the grammar is particularly bad.
        
        As for the unbelievably sweeping statement that people who are coherent have no common sense. Well, apart from it being obviously utterly incorrect pretty much means you just alienated what I'd expect to be vast majority,if not all, of your potential audience here.
        
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        Thursday 18th July 2013 11:13 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: Coherence, common sense,
        
        an audience would be groundworkers who find the CSCS card test hard read the sun and watch eastenders
        
        africa has enough land, there is no point thinking that laying water mains pipe is hard and making a self sustaining farm will destroy the planet
        
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        Thursday 18th July 2013 11:36 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: Coherence, common sense,
        
        a few government run farms growing plenty of veg, and charities would just have to drive to the local market if they didnt lay the water mains and make the farms themselves
        
        then there is corn to export and cover global shortages that make the headlines every year or two
        
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        Thursday 18th July 2013 12:04 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: Coherence, common sense,
        
        if you use an underground stream to fill a underground reservoir, when the reservoir is filled up, the stream could just carry on its natural path, and you would be able to have pressure pumps or put your irrigation system on for a few hours a night
        
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        Sunday 14th July 2013 00:38 GMT me n u
        
        The rise and fall of the US empire.
        
        I agree.
        
        Teach them how to spill, firm a sintince, avoid long ron-on sintinses and lirn to punchewate?
        
        I can't say what's happening over there in blighty-land, but here in the US empire, education is a planned disaster. After all, it's much easier to take care of the sheep when they are down right stupid. I have watched my country become a 3rd world, 3rd rate empire over my lifetime. Saddest part is, no one (or is it noone, no-one or none?) over here seems to notice or care, and the latter scares me more than the former. :(
        
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        Sunday 14th July 2013 19:48 GMT Naughtyhorse
        
        Re: The rise and fall of the US empire.
        
        Atlas shrugged?
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 11:06 GMT Flashy Red
        
        Re: The rise and fall of the US empire.
        
        In the pursuit of power, an educated populace is something of a hurdle. Why else do you think education is such a low priority, planned disaster?
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 11:16 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: The rise and fall of the US empire.
        
        you think all the skeletons on charity television appeal adverts care for phd's
        
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        Saturday 13th July 2013 11:23 GMT Dodgy Geezer
        
        Now I wonder why a perfectly reasonable comment about providing water to arid areas gathers 2 downvotes?
        
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        Saturday 13th July 2013 11:41 GMT petur
        
        "Now I wonder why a perfectly reasonable comment about providing water to arid areas gathers 2 downvotes?"
        
        Because it is off-topic?
        
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        Saturday 13th July 2013 13:16 GMT Zmodem
        
        off topic is good, and not all airlines in rich countries have the latest planes
        
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    2. Monday 15th July 2013 08:11 GMT Naughtyhorse
      
      america is not a proper country and a full infrastructure, all the charities should send in some administrators and bring abit more money in from themselves
      
      a few spread out raises of taxes on the airline and other places, could bring in enough for water pipes and treatment plants etc from their own government money.
      
      there fixed it for you
      
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      1. Monday 15th July 2013 08:31 GMT Zmodem
        
        i know about 3rd world countries, all the charities and government aid, should lay water mains pipe down, its not hard if they have a proper trench digger
        
        then make farms etc... then when people on famine camps all start to feel healthy, the country would have water mains pipe for the millions to setup new towns.. instead of being back where they started
        
        ethiopia should get abit more tax off of the airline and they can pay for some of it themselves
        
        most charities are run by celebrities who dont have a brain cell and have never actually thought anything through
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 08:50 GMT Zmodem
        
        every country has reservoirs to collect rain water, and has millions of km of water main pipe, surface reservoirs cant be dont in africa becaue the water would just be polluted by wild life
        
        and if you have the money you can put all the chemicals in a water treatment plant and just use river water, or underground streams, once the reservoir tank has been filled up and connect it to the mains pipe
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 11:28 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        Damm - there was I actually working on the problem and thinking it was actually quite hard. Could you just remind me where I put the reservoir - i guess on top of the biggest mountain, so that all the water flows down hill. I guess I could use one of those 3d printers to print out the pipe, cos there are quite a lot of people, and they are quite poor, and I think I'm going to need a LOT of pipe.
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 12:15 GMT Zmodem
        
        most of africa is flat, engineers can build spacestation and make tunnels under the sea
        
        looking at map an plotting the easiest mains pipe route, and have smaller village pipes coming off the mains through 100% open land is not hard, nor is putting in a bend in the pipe, and nor is making underground reseviors that are 1000s of gallons bigger then a well and cheaper and able to have a solar powered pressure pump
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 15:22 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        @ZModem (project plumb Africa...)
        
        Yes great - soon the whole of the planet will be covered in human beings all living in little concrete houses with water piped to the front door. Meanwhile we can all watch the world that was on our flat screen TVs (e.g. forests, tigers, coral reefs, thousands of other things). But the most important thing is to squeeze as many lovely human beings together so they can all enjoy each others miserable company.
        
        Yes - I am a bit of a misanthrope. Fix things for people - but make it all sustainable for the planet - NOT just some stupid vision of plumbing up the whole of African so they can "build cities" all over the place.
        
        </rant>
        
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2. Saturday 13th July 2013 10:27 GMT Sadie
  
  Probably because Ethiopian is a pretty well run airline, it's profitable for the government and helps contribute to employment and improving the country as a whole.
  
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  1. Saturday 13th July 2013 11:04 GMT Zmodem
    
    I said they should check the taxes because the their government can pay for water pipes and treatment plants
    
    you can give all camps charities spend time giving bottled water within a few months and lay a whole infrastructure for the whole country in 10 years
    
    along the pipe path you can have farms with sprinklers to grow food and export
    
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    1. Saturday 13th July 2013 18:15 GMT Steven 1
      
      @Zmodem
      
      Is amanfrommars broken or something?
      
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      1. Sunday 14th July 2013 08:48 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: @Zmodem
        
        charities combines and government aid costs over $500 million a year going to africa
        
        a few trench diggers cost £1m each, JCB`s would be donated...
        
        laying some water mains pipe is kids work for all the army and other engineers that are always in africa making wells
        
        they only need 1 water treatment plant to run the mains off, if they need to build a new plant
        
        there is no other way to stop your famine etc
        
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        Sunday 14th July 2013 09:38 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: @Zmodem
        
        then you just burn some land, and have water from the mains pipe to soak it all and then plough it and you have a farm that does`nt need aload of chemicals to grow some potatoes
        
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      2. Sunday 14th July 2013 19:48 GMT Naughtyhorse
        
        Re: @Zmodem
        
        lol
        
        amanfrommars was broken right out of the box!
        
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        Sunday 14th July 2013 20:14 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: @Zmodem
        
        no.. some countries cant grow food because the soil has no nutriants..
        
        you burn land, you flatten it with 1 of these https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/John_Deere_roller%2C_U.S._Navy%2C_Camp_Covington%2C_NMCB-133%2C_080928-N-1106H-001.jpg/800px-John_Deere_roller%2C_U.S._Navy%2C_Camp_Covington%2C_NMCB-133%2C_080928-N-1106H-001.jpg
        
        you then plough the burnt foilage into the earth, keep it wet and plough it a few more times, there is enough elephant and zebra to other compost
        
        if you have a proper trench digger, you just have to drive it along, and drop pipe in the 2 foot trench and bolt the pipe together, and put in some valve every mile or two, so you can stop the water through surface drain bolt taps, when there is a leak
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 07:38 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: @Zmodem
        
        most of the famine camps would all start to feel healthy within 6 months with enough water, potatoes and cabbages and buffalo stew, then they would all start to work on farms, and the world would never be short on corn etc
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 15:59 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        Elephant and zebra my a****!
        
        Elephant and zebra my arse! You're building cities all over the place remember? And killing off all the elephant and zebra as you go - they get in the way.
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 16:38 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: Elephant and zebra my a****!
        
        hows having a water mains pipe 6 feet underground messing up the planet
        
        this is what a proper trench digger looks like :
        
        http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/6032995/2/stock-photo-6032995-heavy-equipment-trench-digger.jpg
        
        you need water mains pipe.. to start farms and fertilize the land to stop famine
        
        http://www.access-irrigation.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/headerimage/field-sprinkler.jpg
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 17:27 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: Elephant and zebra my a****!
        
        you could have a billion acre`s of new farm land in africa, and you would`nt even know about it, unless you follow the roads that will appear along the water mains pipe when harvest comes
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 18:25 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: Elephant and zebra my a****!
        
        and etc
        
        some fertilizer once you have made some farm land by burning, and 10,000km of pipe and a few trench diggers, costs alot less then cargo ships of rice, bottled water, water chemicals, and all inland transportation of it all
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 22:17 GMT Someone Else
        
        Re: ZModem
        
        According to El Reg's medallion criteria, you need 1000 upvotes to get a silver medallion. Seems ZModem is on a mission to get 1000 downvotes by the end of the week. I propose a bullshit brown medallion for reaching that particular milestone....
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 23:28 GMT Zmodem
        
        Re: ZModem
        
        they arnt called comment tards for nothing
        
        africa -> globe map -> actual physical size in relation to all other countries
        
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3. Monday 15th July 2013 07:59 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Zmodem.....
  
  Can i recommend this, a damm good read and you might bloody learn something about "3rd world" countries.
  
  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nowhere-Like-Home-ebook/dp/B00ADSNCV8/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1373875065&sr=1-1
  
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1. Saturday 13th July 2013 08:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: Theory
  
  This image seems to suggest you're right - there is a battery in the rear to start the APU, near to where the fire occurred:
  
  http://media.mcclatchydc.com/smedia/2013/01/17/00/23/XsZ5c.La.91.jpg
  
  With only a couple of dozen aircraft in service, battery fires had happened multiple times. And yet Boeing stated 'we might never know the cause', because they'd been unable to replicate the problems. So they just tweaked some stuff, put a bit more space around the batteries, thicker fire protection, venting, and so on, and the FAA approved the fix.
  
  If this is a battery fire, the Screamliner needs to be grounded UNTIL they actually figure out what is causing these fires. It is not acceptable to just apply some sticking plaster, cross fingers, and send them up again. There have been multiple fires, it is not a freak occurrence, there is a clear indication that SOMETHING is wrong. They need to figure out what is wrong before they fix it.
  
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  1. Saturday 13th July 2013 09:35 GMT Richard Jones 1
    
    Re: Theory
    
    That image has a write up stating that the batteries were mounted under floor with a small unit for the APU in the tail. I do not believe that above the ceiling in front of the fin is that same location at all.
    
    Speculation about the batteries is understandable, whether it is reasonable or anywhere near right is another matter all together. At this state it appears it could be almost anything - including spontaneous combustion of passenger items stowed in error - though this is as unlikely as many of the other suggestions!
    
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2. Saturday 13th July 2013 11:28 GMT Dodgy Geezer
  
  Re: Theory
  
  ...Obviously Boeing need to think again about Li-Ion, they are clearly unsafe for aircraft....
  
  I use LiPo batteries for model boats and aircraft. They are well understood to be dangerous by the modelling community, and usually charged in protective containers to minimise the impact of fire or explosion.
  
  But laptop manufacturers were crying out for a new battery technology, and so the world was disinclined to do too many safety studies when they came out...
  
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  1. Sunday 14th July 2013 08:34 GMT Destroy All Monsters
    
    Re: Theory
    
    Bullshit. Are you implying your Graupner model stuff LiPo shit is the the same as the one in planes? Next you will be telling me that avionics is built on Windows.
    
    > disinclined to do too many safety studies
    
    Evil capitalists p0wning you? More like consumers want these, and it works quite well (people are not blowing up right and left and even state regulators don't complain too much) so it's on the market. Or are you seriously implying that you prefer to carry a Vietnam-era lead-acid backpack for your laptop?
    
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    1. Sunday 14th July 2013 14:13 GMT A 11
      
      Re: Theory
      
      http://media02.hongkiat.com/bsod/airplane.png
      
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    2. Sunday 14th July 2013 16:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: Theory
      
      "Next you will be telling me that avionics is built on Windows."
      
      Not yet, but there's allegedly been Windows for Warships for a while now.
      
      And a little birdy tells me that one of the major >safety critical< avionics software players has a new man in charge, who has been heard to say "low level test is unnecessary". Low level test is the bit that tests that the code in the PROMs actually performs as per the requirements specification. There are already lots of prior desk-type tests to check that the software design conforms to the requirements specification. The new faith apparently requires believers to testify that these simpler, earlier (and by coincidence shorter and cheaper) tests are largely sufficient on their own without low level tests, and thus largely eliminate any significant need for testing the in-hardware implementation of the design????
      
      There might be some plausibility in this new faith if there was such a thing as a verifiably correct compiler and runtime (not to mention something verifiably correct to run it on, e.g. Viper, except it wasn't really, was it).
      
      Anyway the point is that believers of the new faith presumably wouldn't care if the safety critical software did run on Windows, as long as the design passes its tests and the regulatory authorities are satisfied that the suppliers have followed due process, as per documentation (just like due process was followed on the 787)..
      
      Yes I know it sounds unbelievable.. I'm hoping someone has misunderstood.
      
      But if they haven't misunderstood, then some folk will still have to have faith anyway, because unbelievers go to the back of the salary continuation queue.
      
      Ross Anderson (or team), are you reading this, do you understand the implications? We're not just talking insecure smart meters here you know. Or even duff chip+PIN security,
      
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      1. Sunday 14th July 2013 19:48 GMT Naughtyhorse
        
        Re: Theory
        
        Ross Anderson (or team), are you reading this, do you understand the implications? We're not just talking insecure smart meters here you know. Or even duff chip+PIN security,
        
        Of course they understand, what you don't understand is that by the time it comes to bite the company on the ass, they will be long gone.
        
        QED
        
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      2. Monday 15th July 2013 09:36 GMT Yag
        
        Re: Theory
        
        This guy can say anything, as long as the certification agencies don't listen to him and still require mandatory LLR verification for level A and B SW.
        
        Can understand why he said that, unit tests are very costly.
        
        But I've seen enough level D software to know how ugly things can get without proper code inspections and unit tests...
        
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        
        A little sidenote for those not familliar with DO-178B :
        
        This standard defines 5 levels, from A to E, depending of the criticity of the SW.
        
        - Level A software is for the most critical SW that may lead to a catastrophic accident (Typically, most of the onboard computers and display units are level A)
        
        - Level D software is for the non critical parts. Mostly diagnostic tests or dataloading SW that can only be activated when the equipment is plugged in a special device are example of level D SW (as long as the selector bootstrap is level A of course)
        
        Properly designed In Flight Entertainment SW should be classified as level C, as it may lead to an extra workload for the cabin crew - a blue screen may makes passengers quite nervous...
        
        - Level E is a catch-all category which means "any SW not developped following DO-178B guidelines". Windows 8 Aircraft Edition for example.
        
        ...
        
        Geez, when you have to write a sidenote longer than the actual message, you know you're doing it wrong.
        
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        Monday 15th July 2013 20:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        Re: Theory
        
        "as long as the certification agencies don't listen to him and still require mandatory LLR verification for level A and B SW."
        
        Look around you.
        
        When did you last see any industry regulator that was competent in what they are supposed to be regulating?
        
        Ten years ago I would have expected FAA CAA etc to have a clue about both the general approval process and access to the relevant industry experts.
        
        Doesn't the Dreamliner scenario (to name just one very visible example) make you wonder whether FAA CAA etc still do have a clue?
        
        It makes me wonder.
        
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  2. Sunday 14th July 2013 09:31 GMT Clive Harris
    
    LiPo batteries
    
    >>I use LiPo batteries for model boats and aircraft. They are well understood to be dangerous<<
    
    Well yes, Polonium (Po) is rather dodgy stuff.
    
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    1. Sunday 14th July 2013 10:11 GMT Dodgy Geezer
      
      Re: LiPo batteries
      
      It's not that difficult to google LiPo and find that it stands for Lithium Polymer....
      
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Saturday 13th July 2013 07:38 GMT John Smith 19

Meanwhile a shadowy international financier with an accent shorts Boeing stock *again*

It's important to ensure a good rate of return on ones investment. (...)

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1. Sunday 14th July 2013 08:30 GMT Destroy All Monsters
  
  Re: Meanwhile a shadowy international financier with an accent shorts Boeing stock *again*
  
  Mr Goldfinger, I presume?
  
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2. This post has been deleted by its author
Saturday 13th July 2013 08:59 GMT Cliff

Duracell

That's all I need to say on the matter.

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1. Monday 15th July 2013 13:06 GMT Kubla Cant
  
  Re: Duracell
  
  Not likely! The cabin will be full of stupid pink rabbits banging cymbals.
  
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Saturday 13th July 2013 09:19 GMT Anonymous Coward

Re. Screamliner

I hereby request that this meme is used to refer to all future posts about the Dreamliner.

That is all.

-Anon

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