US: We spied on you Europeans but we can still be chums. Right?

I'd doubt these Euro/US discussions will lead to anything

Let's face it, a lot of these European nations are clients of intelligence that the NSA scoops up. These upcoming discussions will in essence mostly be about managing the PR aspect of widespread data surveillance. Can't have those annoying leaks letting the hoi poloi know who is snooping on them, can we?

(I always say that the worst thing about being cynical is the moment you realize that cynicism is the smart play)

Nerds work for governments too

And I am sure it was a nerd working for a security agency somewhere who came up with the original idea for the cloud.

Agency boss: I wish we had easier access to everybody's data instead of having to wait to intercept it when they send something by email!

Nerd: Why don't we build a huge data centre and rent vast amounts of space cheaply to every one, then we can build our own back door into it from the start.

Agency boss: Great idea! here's a few squillion set it up!

That has always been my view of the cloud, security wise the dumbest idea I have ever heard of.

There is no difference between securing your data and securing your house, if someone really wants to get in they will, it is just a matter of making it as difficult as possible so that it begins to use up too much time to be worth it but nothing 100% secure.

If you want good security keeps things under your hat, it is still possible for people to access but it's a whole lot better than leaving it lying around in somebody else's warehouse where you can't see who is trying to get in.

Unless of course you're in a position as a cloud provider that in developing such strong links with the spooks, it helps underpin your continuation.? These 'links' between the giants of the web and politically managed secret organisations, forged through data sharing, will make the political elite far less likely to permit or authorise any strategies or actions that might threaten or restrict the relationship or the relationship with the organisation that's cooperating so willingly.

People with power have a very singular priority, keeping it. In that regard the wholesale leaking of information pushes buttons on both sides of that deal.

If you've never had it you don't miss it. But they have had the ability to acquire such vast swathes of data. And you can bet your last penny that they don't want to lose it.

hang on a sec

Google can do a bit of wireless sniffing with their mapping cars and the EU privacy commissioner goes apeshit.

But now we find Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook et al send absolutely everything they have over to the US spooks, and the EU privacy commissioner seems to be on holiday or something.

FFS, if you can fine Microsoft hundreds of millions of Euros for forgetting to put some browser selection screen on Windows, then this has got to be worth billions in fines. You may not be able to target the NSA, but you can sure go after the collaborators in this.

This might actually make the US as a whole think twice about co-opting big US companies in on this, and it might make these companies a little more principled in future too.

And if it does, well, at least we can get back some of the billions they didn't pay in tax.

Only in the US

I see a lot of comments about "Only in the US" but for me they all seem to forget that most national governments can and do spy on their own people.

As far as I know, only in the US is there constitutional protection against spying on your own citizens.

It is frustrating...

It is frustrating. I know (even myself living in the US) if I *EVER* decided to do "cloud" anything, I would pick a cloud service provider that operated entirely outside the United States.

It would be a good time

It would be a good time before the talks for Snowden or someone with full access to that information to release it to almost every newspaper in the world. I'm hoping it has blackmail files on leaders and politicians and that is the real reason the NSA/FED are so pissed because it's their leverage and without it they're screwed.

opt in or out?

Are the European countries going to try and prevent data mining of their citizens or are they negotiating for access to the NSA Hoover bag?

"Free trade" is a silly label for it

"Free trade" is a silly label for it.

They're stealing EU business, technological and academic secrets.

They're spending billions to do this so they're almost definitely handing them over to your US-based competitors.

How is that free trade?

What a bunch of naive fools

Anyone with a clue knows full well that all governments spy on each other to keep the players honest as there are always some double agents in government. If you didn't know this you must be living under a rock.

People are so dumb

Just because they didn't realize that communications has been monitored for decades and it increased after 9-11, for good reason, now people are outraged that authorities have been doing their best to protect people from more terrorists attacks, which they have done in the UK as well as the US. If you don't want your communication monitored then don't ever use a phone, the internet, snail mail. Just sit in your home and rot away.

Save time, save taxpayer money

Just CC the NSA whenever emailing.