back to article NSA PRISM deepthroat VANISHES as pole-dance lover cries into keyboard

Whistleblower Edward Snowden, who blew the lid off the US government's massive internet surveillance project PRISM, has vanished from his Hong Kong hideout. Word of his disappearance came as it emerged that the 29-year-old's girlfriend is apparently a pole-dancing blogger who yesterday wrote: "Sometimes life doesn’t afford …

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          1. Tom 13

            Re: do the following words prompt any thoughts:

            Yeah, that I have to suppress my natural reflex to shoot anybody who uses the first two in a derogatory manner because they're more likely to be part of the problem than the solution.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bingo

        I'm not sure what Edward Snowden is. He deserves everyones respect for blowing the whistle on this, but the fact he dropped willing jumped in the fire. I can't help but feel setting up an anonymous drop would have been enough.

        AC cause I left my tin hat at home!

      2. Jemma

        Re: Publicity whore..

        ...Max Clifford.. Come on down...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bingo

        I believe there is a deep difference between Manning and Snowden. The former just download data without ani criteria and passed them to Assange .- which published them without any criteria if they could actually harm someone or not. Snowden talked to a journalist about a system used to gather data - without releasing any data that could harm someone. Manning deserves a long time in a jail, because he's an arrogant moron, his care about human rights violations came only after he was sent to a prison...

        1. Tom 13

          Re: without releasing any data that could harm someone.

          That a patently false statement. The data have certainly stopped some attacks.* If we stop the collection of data those attacks which would otherwise have been stopped will succeed and those people will be quite dead.

          That doesn't mean we shouldn't stop the mass collection of data. But I do insist that you be realistic in your assessment of what the consequences of not collecting it are. I for one want it stopped right now. There might be workable safeguards we can put on the collection of the data. If there are, I'm probably willing to allow it to be collected and analyzed again. But those protections have to be publicly defined and a super-majority of us need to approve it.

          *It follows that if they disclose which attacks there is a measurable risk that the methods used to stop the attack can be compromised and therefore it is not advisable to make the disclosure.

          1. Wayland Sothcott 1

            Re: without releasing any data that could harm someone.

            A group plotting something illegal would secure their communications. A group forming and discussing ideas which although not illegal could lead to plotting something is who they are looking out for. This means watching everyone even though nothing illegal will be discussed openly. That's the problem, watching everyone as if they are up to no good.

            1. mmeier

              Re: without releasing any data that could harm someone.

              Even if you can not read the traffic you can still see patterns in it. And that alone can be enough to get out a warning. I.e the RAF learned the hard way NOT to test the radios before a night trip to germany (or at least not ONLY before such a trip) since that was a nice invitation to the nightfighters. Grandpa loved the sight of burning Lancasters

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Bingo

          Umm, some precision required.

          Manning did a mass grab and passed that on without filtering. Ironically, this is also what the NSA is doing, and both activities share the same problem of collateral damage. Assange did SOME filtering, but certainly not enough, on account of not being at all concerned about collateral damage (or "harm to innocent people and informants" to escape the deliberate blandness of the "collateral damage" phrase). You cannot use their characters as an argument to jail them, because then I think Assange would have to be jailed by some distance before Manning (if they can find a jail large enough to hold that ego).

          Snowden has been more precise in his revelations (which we could call properly whistle blowing), but should have first taken care of his own protection. The problem with whistle blowing is that it still starts with committing a crime (revealing information, in this case aggravated by the fact that it affects national security of a nation), with the fact that it reveals questionable activity offering whistle blower protection against a conviction, depending on the nature of the revelation and the laws of the nation this takes place in.

          AFAIK, there is some protection in the US but a process has to be followed. Running away to the one nation that could take him in "protective custody" and pump him for classified information doesn't strike me as a very good move. Normally, even going near such nations means you may need debriefing post visit if you want to keep your clearance..

      4. Derezed
        Megaphone

        Re: Bingo

        Agreed that Edward Snowden has put his ass on the line for free speech...but Bradley Manning? The two cases are in no way comparable. One was done by someone with sense and was targetted, clear and totally justified. The other was done by some flappy soldier who had no regard for anybody's safety and remains a traitor to this day. He didn't deserve the solitude and nakedness and the US looks very bad for that, but he does deserve what's coming to him in the courts.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    malware

    "...it may be the guy in the bowels of the IT department because he has system-administrator privileges and because that person is also in a position to insert malware into your system to facilitate remote access,”

    so, we can safely assume, in due course (rather sooner or later), such malware will have been found, and "all evidence" will point to the links with "the" guy. Who, as other evidence "strongly suggests", had, in the past, traveled to China. And enjoyed drinking Russian vodka , if some of the "general public" didn't get the first hint.

    1. lightknight

      Re: malware

      So...no actual evidence of any malware...not that anyone in IT would need it since IT usually has remote access to everything. It's like breaking into your own house...you don't need to, you already have access. Just chaff thrown in the air, to draw attention away from whatever the real problem probably is.

  2. Dave 126 Silver badge

    $200,000 salary - pole dancing girlfriend...

    I'm sure there was more information in the article but none of use to me, given we've all always assumed the NSA collected whatever data they wanted. Haven't we?

  3. LinkOfHyrule
    Joke

    Booz Allen

    He's our local park wino. Bloody great cover story though, never knew he was really a defence contractor!

    1. hplasm
      Devil

      Re: Booz Allen

      Booz Allen - Isn't he a Republican senator?

  4. Mark 65

    Curious

    He seems like he may be a smart guy - I'll give him the benefit of the doubt - and stated he wanted to seek refuge in Iceland. So, given he told his boss he was taking two weeks off to get treatment for epilepsy, why didn't he fly there first before releasing the info? Surely your thoughts would be along the lines of "given the monumental shitstorm I'm about to stir up, where might I be safest?"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: Curious

      I think the answer to your question is: the Moon.

      1. hplasm
        Alien

        Re: Curious

        But- the US can get you on the moon.

        1. JaitcH
          FAIL

          Re: Curious

          No more, the once almighty US of A has to rent space to fly to the International Space Station.

          How demeaning can that be?

    2. david wilson

      Re: Curious

      @Mark65

      How true - going to the opposite side of the planet and drawing attention to himself would seem like a peculiar strategy for anyone with a modicum of sense.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Links please

    Can someone give me a link to a quality, in depth coverage of this event thus far?

    I have been wallowing in the 3rd world for a while and most of the details of this event have escaped me.

    Dweeb

    1. btrower

      Re: Links please

      Re: "Can someone give me a link to a quality, in depth coverage of this event thus far?"

      No probs. Here it is:

      http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/

      I think it may be illegal to read that copy in the United States, punishable by up to five years in prison and a fine of $250,000.00. I wish I was kidding:

      "The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997 in response to LaMacchia, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement under certain circumstances, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. "

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Links please

      try guardian.co.uk there's a little piece about it on the front page.....

    3. Captain DaFt

      Re: Links please

      As usual, the good Dr. Boli has condensed the sordid affair succinctly:

      http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/drboli/2013/06/11/ask-dr-boli-197/

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What would Mos and Roy say?

  7. The BigYin

    Something...

    ...doesn't sit right with me here.

    Dude is apparently smart.

    Dude works for CIA (well, a CIA contractor anyway).

    Dude flees to a country with an extradition treating with the USA? WTF? If he wanted sanctuary in Iceland, why not just fly there?

    So is dude actually a patriotic whistle-blower, standing up for the all-American public?

    Or a foreign agent? Or a fool? Or something else?

    It just doesn't seem quite right...

    1. The Indomitable Gall

      Re: Something...

      Dude is a techy, not a lawyer. Maybe he misinterpreted something and thought Hong Kong was safer than it is.

    2. John Deeb
      Boffin

      Re: Something...

      There's no end to the confusion a fool causes in the world when he opens his mouth trying to blow the whistle of meaning. Shortest summary of the story: Snowden thought he knew heavy shit which was actually quite boring and legally complicated but creating Big Meaning for himself by starting playing in the Big Leak when he starting running with it. The Media however, always waiting for any juicy news confirming mass suspicion ran away with it distorting most of the actual facts thereby preventing any sensible discussion about traffic mining to occur in the foreseeable future.

      1. sabroni Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: There's no end to the confusion a fool causes in the world when he opens his mouth

        or starts typing....

    3. John Sturdy
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Something...

      Perhaps people with that kind of job expect to be watched very closely if they book a ticket to somewhere without an extradition treaty. Perhaps they expect to have an accident on the journey.

      If you worked for the CIA or one of its contractors, what do you think your boss' reaction would be if they found you booking a ticket to Iceland?

      1. Tom 13

        Re: book a ticket to somewhere without an extradition treaty.

        If you've got a clearance above a certain level, yes there are certain procedures you have to go through when booking flight to foreign countries. They aren't necessarily difficult to fulfill. I know people who have traveled to countries I would have thought would have been on the "you can't travel there" list given what they do.

        All that being said, if I were ranking other countries sequentially on that list, I'd expect Hong Kong would be much lower on it than Iceland (safest high, probably Canada).

      2. david wilson

        Re: Something...

        >>"Perhaps people with that kind of job expect to be watched very closely if they book a ticket to somewhere without an extradition treaty. Perhaps they expect to have an accident on the journey."

        So if he'd flown to somewhere in Europe first (maybe waiting for a legitimate holiday rather than faking sick leave), and then booked a last-minute flight to Iceland from there, what would 'they' have been likely to do?

        Land black helicopters in the airport and snatch him?

        Shoot down an airliner based on the possibility that he was about to talk to the media?

        Bear in mind that unless he'd been sloppy and started looking at things he wasn't cleared to look at or otherwise left a suspicious trail of document access,'they' didn't know he was going to leak anything, which might have made it rather unattractive to do anything too over-the-top.

        Had he actually been under suspicion by some overarching Big Brother, one might wonder why they would allow him to travel anywhere.

    4. Fibbles

      Re: Something...

      You've made the common mistake of assuming that because a person has an in depth knowledge of one field that they therefore have an in depth knowledge of all fields. Smart is a relative, and to be honest, fairly useless term.

    5. Tom 13

      Re: Something...

      The NSA not the CIA. Completely different agencies even if in theory they are supposed to work together.

    6. Allan George Dyer

      Re: Something...

      I guess he hasn't been following the news about Sami al-Saadi threatening to sue Hong Kong for arresting him in 2004 and, with the US and UK, arranging his extraordinary rendition to Libya.

  8. Jemma

    Grim Reaper: Oooh so you're Mr Snowden...

    Not Dr Hutton.. I think they got the documentation mixed up at the office.. well come along soon have you sorted out..

    What's the betting Snowdens found floating face down somewhere in a gannex mac.. or in some designer luggage..

    You know Goering & Goebbels both said that in 100 years the Nazis would seem like heroes.. they were wrong it only took 68 years for the Gehaime Statzpolizei to look like the protectors of civil liberty..

    Tis a shame they don't execute for treason these days.. parliament this was your life.. (cheaper and you don't have to repair the building afterwards...

    1. david wilson

      Re: Grim Reaper: Oooh so you're Mr Snowden...

      >>"What's the betting Snowdens found floating face down somewhere in a gannex mac.. or in some designer luggage.."

      I do wonder why a security service would want to draw public attention to someone's death if they were just trying to shut a generally obscure employee up?

      Surely it can't be that hard to convincingly fake a normal accident?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    Ahhh...maybe the NSA should HIRE him?

    " Investigators are still scratching their heads about how the $200,000-a-year staffer managed to access information on PRISM: speaking to the Washington Post Joel Brenner, a former NSA inspector general, said a probe into the leak should focus on how the techie “had access to such a startling range of information"."

    Seems like he may be better at spying...and also smarter...than they are.

    1. Jemma

      Re: Ahhh...maybe the NSA should HIRE him?

      But let's be fair... there are things growing in truck stop mens rooms that are brighter than the US Govt..

    2. Shaha Alam

      Re: Ahhh...maybe the NSA should HIRE him?

      Most likely he found one of the senior manager's post-it notes with the user id and password scrawled on it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ahhh...maybe the NSA should HIRE him?

        And he found the post-it stuck to the manager's Tempest monitor, right next to the warning sticker about not writing down passwords.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ahhh...maybe the NSA should HIRE him?

        Found?!?!?!??!!!

        More likely given. Granted they're supposed to know better, but some of the people and passwords I was expected to know when I was doing field work was downright scary. Our Sr. Tech knew the user name and password for the president of one of the banks we serviced!

  10. Eric Olson
    Meh

    It's all fun and games until you have to run...

    His disappearance is probably due to the HK's warning of extradition. Why he chose HK over a number of other areas is beyond me. Actually, why he did this at all is beyond me, if only because the big reveal (the government is spying on electronic communications!) is yesterday's news. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to parse together the immunity clause for telecom companies along with the authorization for warrantless (but judicially-approved) gathering of call and email logs contained within the Patriot Act and come up with the basic outline of the PRISM program.

    Examination of the contents of specific emails and calls, if you are a US Citizen, typically requires a warrant (though that's not much of a barrier with the "special" court"). The sheer amount of data means that actually logging the contents of every communique would result in a huge noise-to-signal ratio, so instead they log and triangulate the sender, destination, duration, frequency, etc and look for patterns. Obviously we don't know the utility of such actions, but the likes of Google, Microsoft, Yahoo!, and others have been telling the market that such activities are huge moneymakers.

    While I abhor the activities, until the Patriot Act is revised or trashed such things are legal. The actual legitimacy under the Constitution is both hard to determine (mainly, is this really unconstitutional search and seizure) and easy to dismiss (national security concern, no real mechanism within the Judicial branch to review such behavior or evaluate the national security claim).

    1. Tom 13

      Re: It's all fun and games until you have to run...

      To me the funniest part is that if he had gone to the right newspaper here in the US and stayed put, he'd probably be safer than he is running. If he needed an insurance policy, mail a separate copy to The Guardian the day before he meets the press over here. They can't actually send him to Gitmo. Yes, they could arrest him immediately, but since he's a civilian and a citizen, even with aiding and abetting an enemy charges, he still has to go to trial. A trial keeps him in the public eye. And the news media get to portray him as a genuine hero. Day after day after day of news about the abused patriot? The optics on that are horrible.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still utterly perplexed as to why a 'junior' system admin would be on 200k a year.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      @murph

      Perhaps to make sure he'd keep his mouth shut. Oops! :)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @murph

      I'm a Sr. Help Desk tech in the DC area working as a contractor. I'm pulling between $60-65K a year. Scale up for being an actual government employee, that's at least another 20%. Scale up for a security clearance, that's easily another 30-50%. Scale up for system admin instead of Help Desk. That might not be 200K, but you're starting to get in the ballpark. Throw in a little disinformation or maybe a salary category instead of actual take home pay and you get $200K easy.

      1. Don Jefe

        Re: @murph

        He was making $122k. That's a reasonable figure. I think you are correct and the $200k was probably based on a job board search made by some journalist in a hurry.

  12. Pet Peeve
    Megaphone

    Not to say that surveillance hasn't gotten out of control, but what is the point in leaking a program which is 100% legal, with bipartisan support (not to mention the support of other governments), and has quite possibly saved lives?

    It's not a scandal when it's legal. The scandal may have been allowing it in the first place (see the US PATRIOT acrt (spit)), but this is just bullshit, bordering on attention whoring.

    1. Jemma

      Funny...

      But I live in the UK... and IT don't remember the names Bush & Obama being in the last general election..

      If you Americans are happy living in the Fourth Reich then bully for you... but stay the hell away from us!

      To slightly misquote “We won't take orders from you until you're waddling up Whitehall - and even then we won't listen..."

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wow, did you really just say 'It's not a scandal if it's legal'? I can't even begin to fathom the stupidity in that statement. Legality is just about what suits who at any given time, something being legal doesn't mean it's not downright scandalous.

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