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back to article Firefox OS: Go away fanbois, fandroids - you wouldn't understand

The Western world's smartphone market has devolved into a duopoly of Apple's iOS and Google's Android. In the rest of the world, however, the mobile story has yet to be written... and this is where Mozilla hopes users will embrace its mobile operating system, Firefox OS. The browser-maker wants Firefox OS to be the gateway …

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      1. Daniel B.
        Reply Icon
        Boffin

        Re: "a web-based mobile future isn't just appealing, it feels inevitable"

        Anyone thinking ObjC is better than C++/Java has got to be an Apple fanboi. Smalltalk was an interesting language for learning OOP, but for serious stuff I found C syntax to be far more useful. Thus I ended up going down the C++, later Java branch of programming languages. Objective C looks like the ugly match of C and Smalltalk, neither one or the other. Yeech!

        And I agree that HTML5 is a shitty option for real app development. His Jobsiness tried that approach with the first iPhone, utterly failed and eventually caved in to demands of an SDK being released. webOS also failed on that regard. Unless they release an actual native SDK, it might not gain enough traction. Though I suspect it is on its way...

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        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "a web-based mobile future isn't just appealing, it feels inevitable"

          "Anyone thinking ObjC is better than C++/Java has got to be an Apple fanboi."

          Not so.

          "but for serious stuff I found C syntax to be far more useful."

          Obviously, C is much faster than something as dynamic as Smalltalk but that's nothing to do with the syntax. Smalltalk's syntax is far cleaner than the C++/Java syntax.

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  2. Lamont Cranston
    Joke

    A large, mostly empty homescreen,

    with a clock? 4 icons in the launcher? Candybar form, with rounded corners? A coloured back?

    I take it that everyone from Apple to Samsung, through HTC, Nokia, and all the rest, will be lining up to murder this in court?

    I do hope not. A decent, budget smartie can only be a good thing.

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    1. ricegf
      Reply Icon
      Flame

      Re: A large, mostly empty homescreen,

      Be honest - it doesn't matter what UI Mozilla chose, if they gain market share, the lawyers will pounce with a vengance. Just because PalmOS used a grid of icons doesn't mean Apple didn't "invent" them with the iPhone, right? But as Microsoft has repeatedly proven with their Android extortion^H^H^H licensing racket, you don't need technical excellence to make money in mobile - you need a bigger legal team.

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  3. Nathan 6
    FAIL

    Hmmm, another vendor trying the html5/JS API approach for mobile

    The html5/JS approach has so far failed to gather much developer support (those interesting in making money at least) on the mobile side. Compare Android (Java API)/iOS (Object C API) vs. WebOS, ChromeOS, and the new Blackberry OS. All are pretty much DOA, so I don't see why Firefox OS would be any different.

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  4. rhdunn

    Assistive Technologies

    Does anyone have any information on how text-to-speech voices and other assistive technologies (like TalkBack and BrailBack on Android) will work on Firefox OS?

    Also, how does this work with loading data files (e.g. voice/language data).

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  5. h3

    Making Apps in HTML / JS that are worth using seems to be something that is an exceptionally rare skill regardless of how easy it is to do it badly.

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  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Here we go again

    Here is a partial list of cross platform games developed using Unity. These games can be easily ported to these platforms, with Blackberry and Windows Phone support coming soon.

    If a new mobile phone is not supported by cross-platform tools like Unity, then in my view it has very little chance of attracting developers, since the cost of porting to that platform will be much greater.

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    1. h3
      Reply Icon

      Re: Here we go again

      The only mobile games worth playing are ports from either arcade machines or consoles.

      Almost all of the rest are just made to look nice but they play terrible.

      Not saying you cannot make a good game with unity but all the decent games on there I have seen are not on mobile.

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  7. A J Stiles
    Thumb Up

    I love the idea

    I love the idea of a device finally saying "EVERYTHING INTERPRETED, NO COMPILED CODE ALLOWED!"

    If this becomes the new development paradigm on mobile devices, it's going to make choice of processor -- and possibly even OS -- irrelevant. Which it bloody well should be, actually; it's 2013, for crying out loud.

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  8. Greg J Preece

    I really want to get my hands on one of these little beauties. I'm a big fan of Mozzy's principled approach to markets, and I want to see this thing succeed. As was said in the article, it will have a much shallower learning curve than many devices, and that can only be good for encouraging developer takeup.

    Plus, I've long since had a beef with the "apps for the sake of apps" approach in many businesses, where mobile apps are created simply to have one, and end up doing a far worse job than a simple mobile-oriented version of the website would. They're getting much easier to make, too.

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  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    where

    I live in South East Asia, where are these people who do not have a smart phone yet?

    I know western companies wear rose coloured spectacles when it comes to technology take up by "poor" people, but really, you are going to have to go where there is no internet yet to find these non-smart device using people, and an internet OS is a bit of a struggle in those places.

    The article talks about a duopoly as a bad thing, but as a developer its fine thanks. More OS, more fragmentation and not like we are not getting overrun with app stores already.

    Firefox phone. Please stop.

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    1. ricegf
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: where

      "you are going to have to go where there is no internet yet"

      Yet.

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  10. eulampios
    Thumb Up

    kudos to Mozilla

    and Firefox OS. Good job, I'd love to try it someday. Well written article. But ... I am really scared. Those devices are rectangular and they ... they have rounded corners! ;)

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  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Has any "let's make software development easy!" strategy ever worked?

    Guess what, most developers want to write in native code against native APIs.

    WebOS was a failure and hardly anybody made Android software until it supported native code.

    And before that we had all sorts of drag-and-drop "visual" software design packages, all of which failed.

    Can nobody learn this lesson? The only people who think forcing everybody to make their apps in HTML is a good idea are probably people who have never made any useful software in their lives... managers and executives and so forth... oh, wait...

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    1. A J Stiles
      Reply Icon

      Re: Has any "let's make software development easy!" strategy ever worked?

      Most code hoarders want to write in native code, under the misapprehension that (1) this will enable them to keep the Source Code secret from end users [Even although the abstract mathematics underling facial recognition is exactly the same as the abstract mathematics underlying code decompilation -- think about that] and (2) this is a good thing [Even although -- well, sendmail, BIND, Apache, GNU/Linux ..... Need I go on?].

      Purely-interpreted userspace code is the future. Yes, it bolloxes the closed-source development model. So what? It was an idea whose time had been and gone, and it will not be missed. Get with the program or get lost.

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Has any "let's make software development easy!" strategy ever worked?

        "Most code hoarders want to write in native code, under the misapprehension that (1) this will enable them to keep the Source Code secret from end users ... Purely-interpreted userspace code is the future. Yes, it bolloxes the closed-source development model. So what? It was an idea whose time had been and gone, and it will not be missed. Get with the program or get lost."

        Here's what I think when somebody suggests I develop in HTML/JS:

        1) All my software is already written in perfectly portable C++, I have tens of thousands of lines of code from other projects that I can easily reuse, and I've memorized a ton of standard C++ APIs. C++ is available on any platform so the only reason I wouldn't be able to use it is because some non-developer business-type such as yourself prevents me from doing so, because they read on the internet that HTML5 is easier and better.

        2) Even if the JS is compiled on the fly, do you even KNOW how much memory overhead there is?? (A lot.)

        3) Every native UI API has tons of functions so you can easily make buttons, dialog boxes, menus, etc. that look nice, perform well, and are consistent with the rest of the OS. Doing all this stuff in HTML5 is unnecessarily awkward and time consuming.

        Just look at the iOS app store. Everybody HATES HTML5 apps. They are bloated, slow, ugly, and inconsistent with all other iOS software. There's a reason why Facebook redid their app to be native.

        Your argument about code obfuscation has never occurred to me BTW.

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      2. paulll
        Reply Icon

        Re: Has any "let's make software development easy!" strategy ever worked?

        "Code hoarders?" Really?? :p

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  12. Slions

    Is google financing that?

    Thought Google was financing Firefox. Will they keep doing that while being stabbed in the back?

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    1. ricegf
      Reply Icon
      Linux

      Re: Is google financing that?

      Stabbed in the back? Oh, you mean FirefoxOS will cut into the non-existent revenue stream that licensing Android was bringing? Or that FirefoxOS won't bring more advertising revenue to Google, just like the Firefox browser did?

      Google wants open systems so they aren't excluded from advertising revenue. FirefoxOS is open. Google is happy.

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  13. jasnils

    Firefox OS - why not Opera Mini/UC Browser or cheap Chinese Android devices?

    What is the benefit of buying a Firefox OS running device? What can it do that Opera Mini and UC Browser can't do? What is the segment size between feature phones running the Opera Mini or UC Browser and the cheap Android phones? Wouldn't that be the limited space Firefox OS could find takers?

    What sort of apps are needed in the markets for Firefox OS, that can't be solved by current browsers and web services for lower end devices? Why isn't the web enough?

    Battery charge for one day? If anything is needed, it would be phones that consume less power.

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  14. N13L5
    Coffee/keyboard

    horrible...

    quote: "I can safely say Mozilla's vision of a web-based mobile future isn't just appealing, it feels inevitable."

    Always online is total loss of control over your device and the door opener to the orwellian nightmare.

    I don't use a smartphone to be connected with everything and anything.

    For me, its a tiny computer, which allows me to locally store a sizeable library of books and some music. I'm not talking about trash novels, but books containing actual knowledge on how to do things, how to build things, scientific research etc.

    I go many places where internet is either unavailable or sketchy. Even if it is available, I have no desire to need to download my stuff from some server farm. It is far preferable to have things under your physical control. Everything else could be turned off or gone, due to war, someone calling out martial law, a hacked server, a lost password and an infinite number of other things.

    My smartphone is nothing but a lightweight PC with bookshelf and stereo.

    Making phone calls and getting online with it is ok, but far from the #1 concern. If I could get a Galaxy S4 with 1TB of storage instead of a cellular radio, I'd buy that.

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  15. agricola
    Thumb Up

    "Mozilla has already lined up hardware and carrier partnerships around the world, including the US which is home ground for the iPhone-Android duopoly and where Sprint is now working to bring some sort of Firefox OS phone to the market."

    And then, of course, Tizen is coming to further simplify the world.

    Bye, bye Ubuntu phone..

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  16. Robert Grant

    WP8 phones don't have that problem, at least

    "the Nokia maps app which will load up just fine without a connection, though of course - like its counterparts on Android and iOS - it can't load any map data without some sort of link to the internet."

    Very happy with my free worldwide maps from Nokia that are snuggled on my HTC 8X. Just add GPS signal.

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