back to article Global warming fingered as Superstorm Sandy supersizer

In a caveat-laden article in the current edition of the journal Oceanography, a trio of researchers from Rutgers and Cornell Universities argue that it's an even-money bet whether last October's "Superstorm Sandy" was caused – or at least exacerbated – by disappearing summertime Arctic sea ice. "With the increasing frequency …

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      1. Thought About IT
        Childcatcher

        Facts

        Facts, facts, facts. Don't bore me with facts. Facts are just a minor inconvenience to AGW deniers. All they have to do is sow doubts about them and they make it politically impossible to take action to curb greenhouse gas emissions. After all, it wouldn't do to leave all those valuable fossil fuels unexploited.

  1. General Pance
    Megaphone

    Australia's already fixed the weather by bringing in a Carbon Tax. As soon as you get off the plane you can feel the weather is exactly right, the way God (the one worshipped by Kevin Rudd) intended it.

    I hope this is good news to all of you who are terrified by the drumbeat of articles like this.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I can prove that global warming has nothing to do with these storms. In 2345 BCE there was a great flood. Man wasn't using the fossil fuels we are today and the earth would have been far cooler and more arctic ice would have existed. I'm pretty sure the great flood was far worse than "super storm Sandy" could ever have been.

    The worst Altantic hurricane happened in 1780 followed my Mitch in 1998. The fact is, Sandy didn't even register on the scale of one of the worst hurricanes on record. If global warming was playing a pivotal role, then each year the storms would be worse and worse and easily be worse than the storms of hundreds of years ago.

    If global warming is man made, how did we ever get out of the ice age? Man wasn't around to pollute the earth and yet it warmed. Scientists have also proved that the earth goes through warming and cooling phases.

    If man is the source of global warming, we do what. Quit using fossil fuels so we dump electricity, automobiles, kill the cows and live in the dark ages? The fact is, even green energy causing issues, like wind turbines. The use of them slows the air current and thus the cooling effect it provides.

    If we need to stop what we are doing, then I say those that are in favor take first steps and live in the dark ages. Once they prove it works, then the rest of the world could adopt it. All the tree huggers do is talk about what to do but they don't actually follow through with it themselves. Take Al Gore; he pollutes more than most non-green people do. I don't have a private jet and go all over the world in it. Sure he can plant trees to do carbon offsets but the fact is, he is polluting. His home is a huge polluter, so he wants others to conserve while he does not.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp

    1. Naughtyhorse

      In 2345 BCE there was a great flood.

      rly

      noah

      get the fuck out of here superstitious fuckwit

    2. fmaxwell

      Please stop posting outdated BS as current (re. Gore's house)

      Ignoring your absurd AGW denial comments, I'll take you apart on your claims about Gore's home being a "huge polluter."

      Al Gore completed numerous improvements in 2007, including installation of solar panels, a rainwater-collection system and geothermal heating. He also replaced all incandescent lights with compact fluorescent or light-emitting diode bulbs to make the home more energy efficient. "Short of tearing it down and staring anew, I don't know how it could have been rated any higher," said Kim Shinn of the U.S. Green Building Council, which gave the house its second-highest rating for sustainable design. Bet you didn't want people to know about that, did you? So you linked to something that was written before the improvements had been made.

      By your logic, pedophilia is not a problem, because several vocal opponents of it were found to be pedophiles themselves. For example, U.S. congressman Mark Foley (R-FL) crusaded for tough laws against those who used the Internet for sexual exploitation of children. Then it was discovered that the congressman used the Internet to engage in "cybersex" and send explicit images to underage boys. So, by your logic, you shouldn't stop sexually preying on children because Mark Foley, a vocal opponent of child predators, was found to a child predator himself.

  3. Eric Olson

    Stay with me here...

    Storms move along steep pressure gradients, typically caused by thermal differences. High pressure moves into areas of low pressure. A low-pressure system won't move west, east, north, or south without something pulling it along. If an increase in air temp throughout a given column of air above the polar regions reduces such gradients, blocking highs will become the norm. Such blocking highs would continue to cause continued buckling of the atmospheric flows, resulting in energy being shunted off in directions normally not seen.

    Taken together, this is why the whole idea of "extreme" instead of "warm" weather is predicted by most climate models. With more energy in the system, it takes an even greater push to move highs along their merry way. This allows diversions of upper-air winds to carry tropical or polar air further into the temperate regions. Tropical air tends to carry moisture, polar air tends to be dry. In general, that means a pattern is formed and harder to break. That's not to say such things did not occur in the past. But should we just accept that by adding more energy to the system in a way the creates more equilibrium than before (polar areas are warming much more than tropical areas) is a good thing? It just creates a more sluggish climate that responds only to gross changes in energy, such as the changing from summer to winter, rather than smaller energy fluctuations. The climate works on a system of equalization, tropical to polar. Reducing that difference reduces variability and cements patterns. That's not a good thing.

    1. david 63

      Re: Stay with me here...

      Look into my eyes and repeat after me "Warm weather was not predicted by the climate models"

  4. johnwerneken
    Mushroom

    super storm my rear end

    The number of storms with lower pressures higher winds greater surges and wider reaches is considerable. The 'super' thing about this one consists mostly of the fact that it hit the City, the planetary capital, and secondly that it did so at high tide, so that the City's transit system was put out of action plus a good deal of the electricity distribution.

    Whether the weather can be expected to be more energetic, as seems likely to me, or just the same old weather, people are ever more numerous and ever more interdependent, and ever more hostage to anything, including weather, that disrupts our systems. Redundant systems and accepting the risks as well as the rewards of interdependency probably have a lot more to do with our future, than trying to manage our impacts on climate, let alone the climate per se.

    1. hayseed

      Re: super storm my rear end

      Umm, check again the scale and the pressure of the storm, apparently you are clueless with regard to those factors. Certainly it was not that strong in terms of winds. Some of the most powerful storms in terms of wind have been small storms like HugoYes, it's destructiveness is a function of where it hit with what effects. Storm surges are also not just a simple function of wind speed. Greater surges in more limited locations (most notably Galveston) have often occurred, of course. Scale and topography have an effect there also, not just wind speeds. This covered a very wide area, and there were areas with 12" rain totals (not in NYC).

  5. Gravis Ultrasound

    wow, false alarm level of .5 is the treshold for getting published in the field of 'climate change'

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So...

    We are basing this on 1 hurricane. 1 is not a statistic. A trend of 1 is irrelevant. 1 is not a pattern.

    Even better we are basing this on 1 freak hurricane on record!!! Going all the way back to the ancient year of 1851. Looking at the tsunami in japan which occurs roughly each 100 yrs (as the argument that they should have been prepared). So this could be a regular occurrence but we dont have the records.

    So we have the possibility of a freak occurrence of non-freak events or as they say "A Series of Unfortunate Events". Something we all know if we have a really bad day. Or it could be the norm but with the complete lack of information to work with we dont know.

    So I guess there could be a possible relation to a theory if said theory can be proven to scientific accuracy. But even if it could then it is just another possibility. And as a possibility it is not probable unless a few more happen to provide any trend data.

    Or we can gather everyone around... turn off the lights... move the torch under our chins... turn them on as we say as fast as we can "MMCC co2 theory we all gonna die!!!!! Mwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha"

  7. speedjunky

    None of the climate models are 100% and I have been saying for years now, there is no such thing as man made global warming. What did I see in the Sunday Mail last night, an article with the headline,"Finally proof that there is NO global warming", it went on to state that the global temperatures are NOT rising, showed a nice pretty graph where the temperatures have levelled off for the past 15 years!!

    There is no such thing as global warming, I stand by this and you will see more and more reports saying as much!

    Then the question will be asked, why have we (meaning our governments) wasted billion of pounds and dollars on this rubbish and we continue to pay tax based on carbon!!!

    Alarmists, go home and worry about something else instead of p!$$!ng away everyones tax money!

    1. John Deeb
      Boffin

      Not sure what you mean with "global warming" here. Aren't you ignoring the hard measurement which show medium-long running trends of a warming of both atmosphere and oceans? That is not much in dispute and neither is climate change as a whole. The question is the same with informed alarmists and sceptics alike: do we know all the causes of the current trends and which factors could be *forcing* them beyond natural flux and noise? The problem with dismissing the current major theory of greenhouse gasses is that you need also to supply a better, well researched theory about warming trends including the current interlude. Just waving it away as randomness does not appear scientific nor very wise (what if it's not?). Feel free to demonstrate for example some complex magnetic link between the Sun and upper atmosphere developments and jet stream locations. The world will be thankful. But the science needs to be presented well and not just the "idea". I know some scientists are working on this but by suggesting mainstream science is corrupted of blind sighted, how would you propose to continue from here? Putting all of "them" on the burning pile?

    2. John Hughes
      WTF?

      Poe? Or is the really someone who gets his science news from pretty graphs in the Sunday mail?

      http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:1998/mean:12/plot/uah/from:1998/trend

    3. NomNomNom

      "it went on to state that the global temperatures are NOT rising, showed a nice pretty graph where the temperatures have levelled off for the past 15 years!!"

      A nice pretty graph which I bet they didn't stick apply any uncertainty range to the trend.

      1. Fading
        Meh

        Pot and kettle noms?

        Seems a bit obtuse to insist on uncertainty ranges now. Where were the uncertainties when anthropogenic CO2 was declared the driver of global warming? BTW Bob Tisdale has got a lot to say about the NODCs 0-2000m OHC (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/nodcs-pentadal-ocean-heat-content-0-to-2000m-creates-warming-that-doesnt-exist-in-the-annual-data-a-lot-of-warming/) so your previous points might need updating.

        1. NomNomNom

          Re: Pot and kettle noms?

          "Where were the uncertainties when anthropogenic CO2 was declared the driver of global warming?"

          Uncertainty in the trend is pretty tight over the longterm. However on the short-term, eg 10 years, it's less tight. Think you'll find the last 10 year trend is consistent with the longterm trend because trend uncertainty in 10 years of data is so wide.

          'bob tisdale', or anyone else will need to publish claims somewhere more reputable so far as experts go before anyone who matters will take it seriously. The NOAA site will always be the current state of the science. Until it shows no warming at 0-2000m I won't accept that point of view.

    4. Burb

      @speedjunky:

      "What did I see in the Sunday Mail last night, an article with the headline,"Finally proof that there is NO global warming", it went on to state that the global temperatures are NOT rising, showed a nice pretty graph where the temperatures have levelled off for the past 15 years!!"

      I'm pretty sure your post is meant to be a parody. Am I right?

  8. Super Fast Jellyfish

    Lots of anonymice here

    Is that because they've trolling or are not convinced of their views?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lots of anonymice here

      I am sure your real name is super fast jellyfish. Or is that an alias? Anonymous is also an alias isnt it! Maybe we are all as sure as one another, or maybe those not posting as Anonymous somehow believe they are not anonymous?

      1. Super Fast Jellyfish

        Re: Lots of anonymice here

        You are confusing a nom de plume with hiding in a crowd.

        There is only one Super Fast Jellyfish on this site and you can track what I've posted. I can not tell you from any other Anonymous Coward - and you ain't no Spartacus.

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