back to article Six things a text editor must do - or it's a one-way trip to the trash

When I heard, in a tutorial video, the multi-platform programmer's editor Sublime described as "the cool kids' code editor" (or possibly "the Cool Kid's code editor" - the speaker didn't enunciate his capitals and apostrophes very clearly) I was puzzled. As the goto (or, rather, the call-by-reference) consultant on Agile Harlem …

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    1. hag4
      Pint

      Re: My Preferred Editor is...

      Agreed. UltraEdit32. Used it once, and then purchased it long before the free trial period expired. And speaking of lazy...Version 6.0a. Still works perfectly (it's on the other monitor now!). And though others will do block editing, it's also the EZ way it allows switching between Hex mode, swapping upper to lower to proper case. syntax highlighting, opens 60+ files all at once, including several 450+ Mbs, etc., etc....

      And probably the one feature I use all the time - to confirm output and which I've never see anywhere else - yet : the option in the search dialog to see a count of your search-string in your file/s. Oh yeah, and the ablity to replace specified text only within a selected block while leaving the rest as is, and returning the number of replacements. Too awesome for mere words!

      Alas, will finally have to upgrade as 6.0a won't install on Surface Pro's Win 8 pro... Bummer. Still, the best investment I ever made!

  1. Tim Parker

    TextPad ? NotePad ? Programming editors.... really ?

    1. Julz
      Flame

      PFE?

      http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/steveb/cpaap/pfe/

      1. Gav
        Happy

        Re: PFE?

        And it's a big cheery wave back to the 20th century! Seriously, the main page explains why it'll not suffer from the Y2K bug.

        I tried PFE way back then. It was ok.

        1. Chika
          Thumb Up

          Re: PFE?

          PFE. Used it in the 90s, still have it to hand now, albeit on a rather creaky XP box. When I first started editing, it was all group edits on teletypes, then I switched to EDT on PDP-11s, then vi on Unix. Then I was introduced to PFE, and it became a mainstay because you could use it in so many different situations where many editors back then were either over-engineered or just couldn't cope.

      2. MrT
        Thumb Up

        Re: PFE?

        Netscape 3.0b Gold, PFE and cross-tested through Internet Explorer 1.0 (before MS bought it, when it was a Word plugin IIRC) - I had some sort of system for writing early web sites (well, 20 years or so ago, whilst working at University of Leeds) where I'd create in one then try in another and finally tidy it all up in PFE. Haven't used it in ages - thanks for the memory jog!

      3. PT

        Re: PFE?

        I still use PFE occasionally, especially when I need keyboard macros. It's primitive, but fast. It could do the TADREP test with two easy find-and-replace in less time than it took to read about it.

    2. daveeff

      Really - old

      I remember entering code with edlin - 360K floppies didn't have a lot of space for a big editor and a compiler. Or a linker! You had to edit then compile the source code (on drive B:), swap floppies in A: to link it.

      It was a very long time ago, we did have an XT (10M hd) m/c too but we took turns who used the floppy only m/c.

      About time we had a nostalgia (old fart) icon.

  2. AceRimmer

    multiple cursor feature

    Textpad does this as well and it's one of the reasons I've stuck with it all these years

    1. Ryan 7
      Thumb Up

      Re: multiple cursor feature

      Notepad++ also, via Ctrl+Click

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: multiple cursor feature

        You mean Alt+Click.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Spoonsinger

        Re: multiple cursor feature

        Word for Windows 2.0 used to have column cop/cut and paste. Then they removed it. Could happen to Visual Studio when you least expect it.

    3. Steve Knox
      Windows

      Re: multiple cursor feature

      One word: BRIEF

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        Re: multiple cursor feature

        One word: BRIEF

        Wow, that tales me back.. It had column manipulation, and I had the PARADOX add-on so I could cook up some PAL scripts and kick them off from inside BRIEF. That is, what, 20+ years ago? I think I may even done some Turbo Pascal work in it, but I think at some point I got the lightweight "e.exe" which was a tad more agile on my machine..

        Thanks for the memory :)

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. The Real Tony Smith
          Happy

          Re: multiple cursor feature

          > One word: BRIEF

          Ohhhh, the first REAL editor I used, I loved it.

          To this day the only way I can remember how to spell the word 'brief' is to mutter Basic Reconfigurable Interactive Editing Facility under my breath.

  3. Katie Saucey
    Happy

    notepad++

    ..has been my editor for quite some time. I never noticed the idiotic icon until now. Just changed it. This could be the start of a productive week..

    1. dotdavid
      Thumb Up

      Re: notepad++

      There's even an option in the installer to use a different icon, so it must be quite a popular dislike.

      Dodgy icon or not, it handily beats TextPad in my opinion and I've pretty much installed it on every machine I have to do any serious work on.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Up

        Re: notepad++

        It's a text document with a pencil. While the lower line looks like it hasn't had a transparency applied correctly, it isn't the worst icon on my desktop - that belongs to the VPN icon of a padlock that wouldn't look out of place on Windows 3.1.

        TextPad's icon isn't much better, a T upon which a text document with a pencil is superimposed. This also looks like it belongs in a Program Manager group.

        I fell out with TextPad when I started using it, was hunting through a file for a search string, did my usual CTRL+F to search, started typing what I wanted, and nothing happened. Except the search string is now where the cursor was placed.

        F5 finds. What we have been indoctrinated to believe is a refresh.

        (Yes, I know key mappings can be edited, but this was enough to put me off using it and go back to NotePad++).

        1. Alister

          Re: notepad++

          it isn't the worst icon on my desktop - that belongs to the VPN icon of a padlock that wouldn't look out of place on Windows 3.1.

          Cisco!

          Do I get a prize??

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Thumb Up

            Re: notepad++

            Do I get a prize??

            Here - a copy of CorelDraw! 4.

  4. Valeyard
    Thumb Up

    sublime looks decent...

    ..might give it a go

    Having said that, I'm one of the notepad++ regular users, but I'm always on the lookout for cool new toys

    squiggle squoggle home.

    HA!

  5. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Like the definition of IDEs

    I now understand why I avoid them for a lot of tasks

    Verity is informative as aver

  6. Tom 38

    Sublime's multiple cursor feature is completely top. … This is powerful, simple, clever and I have never seen it done quite like this before.

    This is simply vim's replace in block. Select a block of text, hit c (for change, duh), make your changes on one line, the changes are reflected on all lines in the selected block.

    1. KitD

      Scintilla

      Yes, it's also in NotePad++ which, like Sublime, inherits it from Scintilla which underlies both of them.

    2. John Wilson

      No, it's not - it really isn't! I'm playing with Sublime now, and I'm a long-time Vi user: sublime let's you put multiple cursors literally anywhere. Not sure it's enough to convert me to Sublime, but it's a very cool feature.

    3. eulampios

      @Tom 38

      Same goes with Emacs. Select a region and run whatever command you want taking the region as an argument, like interactive (regex) replacement. or any more sophisticated stuff with run-shell command on it, awk/perl/sed -- you name it.

  7. Crisp

    I have lost the ultra-violet wiping-out gadget (ask your dad)

    Am I so old now that this is ancient technology?

    1. Roger Greenwood

      Re: I have lost the ultra-violet wiping-out gadget (ask your dad)

      "ultra-violet wiping-out gadget" otherwise known as "the windowsill" (c)1982

      p.s. "yes"

    2. BenDwire Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: I have lost the ultra-violet wiping-out gadget (ask your dad)

      You obviously are, and you're obviously losing some of your marbles. Everyone knows (knew?) that EPROMS need UV to clear them, but EEPROMS don't - they are Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory. It looks like Stob is a typical softie who likes to pretend they know enough to blame hardware people for their bugs ...

      As for me, I'm old enough to still have two of the things laying about, together with a collection of programmers. No, they're not used for new products, but lots of old kit is still in circulation which gets repaired from time to time.

      1. the spectacularly refined chap

        Re: I have lost the ultra-violet wiping-out gadget (ask your dad)

        Yes, and she did state EPROM, unless it has been edited after the fact...

  8. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Headmaster

    A nitpick

    What is Zawinski's Observation? He's made quite a few.

    On the subject of editors, those that take it upon themselves to autocollapse sections of code which they think I'm not interested in end up on my shitlist. The bugs know where the collapsed sections are and hide in them.

    1. Gerhard den Hollander

      Re: A nitpick

      Zawinski's observation is in all good books on regexps

      'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems.'

      1. Pirate Dave Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: A nitpick

        Zawinski's Observation, from the Unix Hater's Handbook (http://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf), down on page 168 (page 206 according to PDF Viewer):

        Now at this point I should have remembered that profound truism:

        “Some people, when confronted with a Unix problem, think ‘I know, I’ll use sed.’

        Now they have two problems.”

        There may be other versions, but strangely, I just read that one last week, which is why it was fresh in my brain.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: A nitpick

          > the Unix Hater's Handbook

          The book against which "Mein Kampf" reads agreeably.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A nitpick

      What is Zawinski's Observation?

      I believe it's possibly the one about all applications bloating until they can do email. Or something.

  9. Lee D Silver badge

    I don't get the requirement for using a text editor for programming. Use a proper IDE for programming, and a text editor for the log files, it's the only sensible way. Why would you want to read or change code in something that can't then be used to compile and test that code without a lot of extraneous setup and inadequate debugging? The stuff I do end up doing on the command-line on a remote, headless station is so minor that literally pico/nano will suffice. Anything more complex and I want my IDE back even if it means re-uploading the code (and with decent source-control, that's literally a command or two on either end).

    Personally, metapad has been my notepad replacement for years. I don't care about syntax highlighting in 2G log files (God, I hate to think what it would do to some of the files I open in terms of opening time), but metapad can at least open them in a reasonable time and not choke on them. But when I program, it has to be Eclipse or some equivalent. All the syntax highlighting is there. No end of clever regexp tricks to do the text manipulation required. And, I'm sorry, but Eclipse isn't going to take that much longer to start on a decent machine than a Java-based text editor would. And at least by sticking to one tool, I don't have to keep loading it up and switching/closing it anyway.

    The code-folding? Obviously don't get that large programs grow to the point where you don't need to see every line all the time. It's there for a reason.

    And using a text-editor you have to register and pay for? Sorry, are we back in the 90's shareware era again?

    If you're editing code, use an IDE - because you're unlikely to load up a huge code project, make changes, and then NOT want to just compile it again, and there one-button in a GUI with a debugger is worth its weight in gold (I'm an advocate of both GUI and CLI - sometimes at the same time - for whatever is more appropriate to the job at hand. It's about a 70-30 split in my daily work life and about a 50-50 in anything technical, programming, or personal that I do.).

    If you're only viewing/searching text, use a simple text editor that's capable of showing you things like the final bug and is so damn small and fast that you don't WANT it to do anything more complex.

    And if you're writing documentation, use a word-processor.

    Use the tools designed for the job that you need to do. And certainly don't pay for a one-size-fits-nobody tool that is worse than any particular tool you should be using.

    1. Julian Bradfield

      why not use an IDE

      Because of the incredible bloat. I recently wanted to write a simple app for my ancient Nokia phone. I tried to do it The Right Way: downloading the entire Nokia development environment, and running under Wine (of course, doesn't work properly under Linux). Gigabytes of download, including a custom Eclipse; then you have to *run* Eclipse, which takes months to learn how to use (I've even taught using the damn thing, but have blissfully forgotten it all). After a few days of struggle, I thought, somebody must have done this the really right way - googled, and found a nice simple Makefile of a few lines that does everything. So now I can edit my tiny 600 line app in emacs like everything else, compile it with one command, and throw away the gigabytes of Eclipse and irrelevant Windows java libraries.

    2. David Hicks
      Linux

      Why use an IDE? They're usually huge and heavy and (AFAICT) don't really gain you much.

      "Why would you want to read or change code in something that can't then be used to compile and test that code without a lot of extraneous setup and inadequate debugging?"

      You know the IDE doesn't compile things itself, right? It kicks off external tasks. And for debugging, well, gdb is all you need :)

      A text editor with syntax highlighting and a left-panel directory browser, that's set up to fire off a build command with a keyboard macro is perfectly good for my uses. At this point it basically *is* an IDE. BUT it doesn't require a whole bunch of workspace files that can get corrupt or out of sync, and code folding is for chumps anyway. If your source file is that long it's probably time to split it.

      "I'm sorry, but Eclipse isn't going to take that much longer to start on a decent machine than a Java-based text editor would."

      LOL. Java based text editor! Silly rabbit.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Why do people cut themselves? Does it make them feel good?

        > A text editor with syntax highlighting and a left-panel directory browser, that's set up to fire off a build command with a keyboard macro is perfectly good for my uses.

        Time to get into the 21st century and continuous compilation.

        Unless you are just into smalltime scripting.

        1. David Hicks
          Paris Hilton

          Re: Why do people cut themselves? Does it make them feel good?

          "Time to get into the 21st century and continuous compilation."

          Central build servers, nightly builds and self-tests etc? Continuous integration I'm familiar with and like. Never heard of "Continuous Compilation" before.

          Useful tools all, and I'm very much in favour of them. But surely this stuff doesn't negate the need for developers to make their own builds of experimental, unfinished code to test locally?

  10. DuncanL
    Facepalm

    Stob - never one to let facts get in the way of a good rant...

    However Notepad++ has had a new "piece of paper" icon that won't offend your sensibilities for many versions now.

    And yes; I do know that Stob is (intended) to be humour more than information.

    1. jai

      Re: Stob - never one to let facts get in the way of a good rant...

      how do you know that isn't the icon that offends her? perhaps she liked the old when she used to use it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Stob - never one to let facts get in the way of a good rant...

        "how do you know that isn't the icon that offends her? perhaps she liked the old when she used to use it?"

        Cause it's an option during installation to have the old icon and thus should not be of any concern?

  11. rward

    WordStar muscle memory

    Now lost, but the wordstar "diamond" for cursor movement was one of the great UI inventions, until keyboard manufacturers swapped the location of the control and caps lock keys.

    DAMN YOU KEYBOARD MANUFACTURERS

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Borland Sidekick

    I mourn the loss of Borland's Sidekick - a DOS TSR utility including Notepad. But then I found vi. I've lead a sheltered life.

  13. phildobbin

    and when you grow up, you can use Vim...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And when you're tired of vim in those cases where it has to be a terminal editor you can use nano.

      1. alain williams Silver badge

        Nano is OK for simple users

        but anyone who spends a lot of time editing text files should invest the time to learn a more powerful editor that allows you to change many things easily, etc. For that both vi (or vim) and emacs are what you should be looking at. To not do so is like digging a garden with a hand trowel because you never learned how to use a spade.

        Having said that I do come across huge numbers of people who waste a lot of time by never having learned to use the tools available to them; they then justify their ignorance through abusive comments on the better tools - sad.

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