back to article Sony promises PC-based PlayStation 4 for Christmas

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Sony PlayStation 4 - or, as we say in the trade, a PC. Yes, the PS4 will indeed be based on an octo-core x86-compatible processor, incorporate 8GB of GDDR 5 and will be equipped with a PC-centric GPU. It’ll have a hard drive too, plus the inevitable Blu-ray drive. It will incorporate 802. …

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Re: Well hello there...

>Good luck with that. PC games such as the Civilization series would be a nightmare minus mouse and keyboard (shortcuts).

The PS4's Dualshock controller has a touchpad on it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well hello there...

Sure if you play the FPS game for kids like COD then there is heavy auto-aim. But I find the mouse and keyboard suck for FPS games. Movement using binary left/right/up/down controls is so archaic in this day and age, that's what we had decades ago. Analog movement is far superior. While the mouse is more accurate that for me is it's down fall, I don't want a point and click adventure game. Play a real FPS without the autoaim using a joystick, it's more challenging and once you get good at it you won't miss the mouse at all.

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Re: Well hello there...

So you wouldn't be interested in a second hand copy of Civ II for the psone?

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MJI
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Re: Well hello there... FPS

Play with Move - great fun

KZ3 CinC here

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Vic
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Joke

Re: Well hello there...

> until direct thought interface comes out.

It's easy enough, but you have to think in Russian...

Vic.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well hello there...

Having a x86 processor doesn't itself mean it will be easier to develop for (look at all those ARM processors flying about these days). In fact personally I'd prefer to deal with PowerPC assembly than x86.

It's the exotic architecture that includes the cludge that is the Cell multicore arrangement with very specific requirements (in order execution being one of the features) that made it so difficult for developers to grip with.

Now that we have a octo-core x86 processor in a more conventional setup (with a yet unknown secondary custom chip), yes it'll be much easier with out-of-order processing, but the headache of adapting to more parallel processing still remains (current-gen games still generally make better use of fewer but more powerful processing units). It'll be a leap that every platform will have to contend with, notably as more mobile phones start to move towards quad cores.

The GDDR5, whilst high bandwidth, will have its own quirks, so along with a different OS, you're not going to be able to simply recompile a PC game and dump it on the PS4.

Overall though I'm optimistic about the PS4, and I think developers will find it easier to find some fancy tricks to max out the hardware and look forward to some nice shiny bling in the near future.

(after all, if you're busy trying to juggle 8 flaming cell torches, how are you going to find new fancy tricks on that bike you're trying to ride hands-free at the same time?)

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Anonymous Coward

Lightbar

That thing looks sinister. Like some kind of evil robot staring at you from the top of the telly.

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Terminator

Re: Lightbar

Cool!

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Re: Lightbar

It's going to make Barry Shitpeas' head explode. All this time he's been going on about how crap Kinect is and now his beloved Sony have copied it.

I hope it happens here, live.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Lightbar

Sony really havnt copied Kinect. All they have done is allowed the standard controller to be used as a stand-in for the previously required glow-in-the-dark dildos.

Kinect is cutting edge, and it remains to be seen if Microsoft move it past it's currently limited implementations in games. Certainly it is clear that Kinect 2 has substantially improved capabilities...

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Now...

just need some games and I know what I'm saving my coins for.

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Re: Now...

'Destiny', though it won't be a PS4 exclusive. With the next gen consoles being built upon PC lines, I expect platform exclusives to be rarer- though if you have a fetish for Japanese titles then the PS4 will be the one to go for.

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Sony and Valve should Merge?

Discuss...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sony and Valve should Merge?

One wants to infect all of your games with malware, the other wants to infect your music CDs with malware.

A match made in heaven. They can disappear up each others' arses and I never have to deal with either again.

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MJI
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Devil

Re: AC. Sony and Valve should Merge?

Now you have both Playstation AND Steam fans after you.

I think I will play Portal 2 tonight just to annoy you doubly!

I will use the Sixense Move patch to make it tripply!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: AC. Sony and Valve should Merge?

"I think I will play Portal 2 tonight just to annoy you doubly!"

I think I will too, just minus the Steaming shit. As for whether fanbois hate me.. well, I hope they do. I hope they'e crying into their cornflakes at the idea that somebody thinks differently to them, absolutely will not play Valve's "all your base are belong to us" game, and refuses to give Sony an inch.

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Linux

Re: AC. Sony and Valve should Merge?

How would it annoy me?

Steam is successful on the PC Platform, but is unhappy with Windows and considering Linux and an x86 console.

Sony wants to be more involved with Online and has dabbled with Linux on PS2 & PS3

Both love DRM ... (I don't mean Digital Radio Mondale either!).

Big screen console style gaming isn't going to go away due to iOS or Andriod. Different market really, the Nintendo DS and Sony PSP type devices more challenged by phone based gaming now that even Primary school kids are getting smart phones.

A fully open HW platform such as PC with Windows or Linux gets problematic quickly compared to closed HW like PS3, Xbox360, Nintendo Wii / U or even Apple's Mac OSX stuff. The PC based Windows for Gaming has become a high end niche, not mass market.

Apple curiously has never managed to leverage the stable HW aspect of its computer products as well as iphone and iPad for gaming, A few stunning titles and some ports.

I'd guess Apple don't like to be reminded of Pippin? Also was the Apple TV (a pretty limited media box and not a TV, not maybe much different from Roku?) a missed opportunity as a gaming console.

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Re: AC. Sony and Valve should Merge?

If someone wanted the 'it just works out of the box' approach for games, they'd just get a console. Macs offered neither the constant upgrade path of PCs, nor the 'plug and play' big screen experience of consoles.

I do remember the Pippin, but then I remember the Phillips CDi, the 3DO and the Windows/Sega Terradrive.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: AC. Sony and Valve should Merge?

'Steam' has fans? Fans of a DRM system? Are you sure?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: AC. Sony and Valve should Merge?

That'll be the fans placed all around to try and waft the smell of bullshit away.

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MJI
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Need to find the money

One son wants Drivers Club and I NEED Killzone Shadow Fall

As my wife said, it looks like a PS4 Christmas

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Anonymous Coward

At risk of offending the fan boys I will wait to see what Microsoft announce before declaring which one I intend to buy.

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Anonymous Coward

If everyone were like you we'd never

get a good flamewar going.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If everyone were like you we'd never

Sorry, I meant I will never buy a Playstation because they are for losers!

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MJI
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Mushroom

Re

But the PS4 has KZ Shadow Fall!

Sorry that sold it to me.

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The specs of "Durango", Microsoft's hardware are widely leaked and while there is some difference, they are so broadly comparable that regardless of whether you chose MS or Sony you're probably going to get a similar experience, at least as far as games go.

What happens outside that is open to question - I expect Sony will have the best blu ray and 3D support, but perhaps MS will be better in the online and social media realm. I expect Microsoft are also working on their own cloud offering too - it's been a fairly obvious undercurrent in the last few years so they're hardly likely to pass it by.

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jai
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if the specs are similar, and the chipset is very similar, presumably this will make it very easy for developers to write games for both systems? so perhaps no longer any need for a title to be on one device and not another perhaps?

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Connections

See they mention WiFi but what about hardwired ethernet?

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Anonymous Coward

And of course

Sony will have the GAMES. You know the platform exclusives you can't play anywhere else.

Microsoft have Halo.....

Sony studios: 32

Microsoft studios: 3

Go figure.

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Re: Connections

From the spec sheet...

Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX,1000BASE-T

IEEE 802,11 b/g/n

Bluetooth® 2.1 EDR

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I'll be waiting too, but in my case I'll be waiting to see what my friends buy. They all went Xbox last time out whereas I bought a PS3. Sad times.

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Anonymous Coward

Sad times... for my friends

fixed it for you

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I believe the idea of platform-locked titles is rather to artificially inflate the allure of a particular console as opposed to it being a problem simply because it's hard to do.

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Re: And of course

As long as I get to play Final Fantasy XV (if it comes out before I turn grey) and either Forza or GT, I don't care what logo is on my console. But then I'm not a fan of FPS titles on any console.

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platform lockin

As a PC user this does annoy me as there are actually a few games I wanted, but refused to spend a grand for all three consoles.

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MJI
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Platform locked.

Something to do with the owners of the studios.

Sony own rather a lot

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And of course

Unfortunately for Sony none of their 32 exclusives tempted me into buying a PS3

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Re: And of course

Title exclusives on the PS3 seemed conspicuous by their absence. A few tempting games did emerge (WipEout HD, Flower, some of the stranger Japanese titles) but nothing major at launch. On the previous gen, we'd been used to the PlayStation getting first dibs at Grand Theft Auto, and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.

When the PS3 came out, many people didn't yet have the HD TVs required to take advantage of BluRay, either.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And of course

Microsoft SELL the most games. An attach rate of ~ double that of the PS3 - therefore guess who developers will tend to focus on....

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Windows

x86 playstation?

wipe it, install windows, install steam, job done.

media centre machine+gaming in a frontroom friendly unit with no vendor lock-in or tie-downs. nice one.

playstation ecosystem? huh, whatever...

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Anonymous Coward

Nice

8GB of GDDR 5 and 1.84 Teraflops are impressive, especially since there are far fewer layers of API crap between the game and the GPU than you will find on a PC. I expect this to perform better than my PC which has a 2GB video card capable of 4.6 Teraflops.

Time to upgrade my three year old graphics card, I think. I'm sure I can get something really nice for the price of a PS4.

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Re: Nice

Thre's actually a whole load of "API crap" between the programmer and the hardware on a modern games console, too. In fact, consoles are historically a bugger to program for because they are a whole new bespoke architecture each time. Usually a horrible mash of intermingled subsystems that have changed a few times in development, too.

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FAIL

What a shame! What a fraud!

A fraud this console really is.

Cheap, slow AMD hardware. A custom AMD APU it's still going to be a slow product. The A10-5800K was released a few months ago and her it is:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-5800K+APU

AMD A10-5800K APU Average CPU Mark

Description: Socket: FM2, Clockspeed: 3.8 GHz, Turbo Speed: 4.2 GHz, No of Cores: 2 (2 logical cores per physical), Max TDP: 100 W

Other names: AMD A10-5800K APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics

CPU Launched: Q4 2012

CPUmark/$Price: 38.28 Overall Rank: 207

Last Price Change: $123.79 USD (2012-10-06)

>>>>>> 4739

Samples: 167

--

4739 the benchmark score is. The new AMD custom APU for Sony might get 5500 ? 5800 ? Maybe.

And an Intel Core i7-3770 instead:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-3770+%40+3.40GHz

Intel Core i7-3770 @ 3.40GHz Average CPU Mark

Description: Socket: LGA1155, Clockspeed: 3.4 GHz, Turbo Speed: 3.9 GHz, No of Cores: 4 (2 logical cores per physical), Max TDP: 77 W

Other names: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz

CPU Launched: Q1 2012

CPUmark/$Price: 33.04 Overall Rank: 31

Last Price Change: $286.99 USD (2012-04-30)

>>>>9481

Samples: 890

---

At least 2 times faster on synthetic benchmarks.

And LGA2011 Core i7 with 6-core and Quad-Channel 52GByte/s bandwidth DDR3 are even faster.

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Re: What a shame! What a fraud!

And your point is?

The main workload of a games console is graphics rendering. How good will that Intel CPU do that?

The next main important thing is that the CPU in the console doesn't cost Sony a metric buttload. Intel don't like selling their CPUs for cheap. In addition there's no way to create an Intel based SoC with AMD graphics.

In short, quit moaning, it can't happen, and in the real world of gaming there isn't a massive difference in CPU performance.

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Re: What a shame! What a fraud!

I actually have to reply again to what is possibly the stupidest comment I've seen on the internet in at least an hour.

Do you really think that a games console would use a $286.99 CPU? Which would require a discrete GPU?

I like that you compare it to a $123.79 APU that gets twice the performance in GPU benchmarks.

In addition the Playstation APU uses eight Jaguar cores, not 2 Piledriver modules. And to be honest, we don't know how it will perform at all.

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Re: What a shame! What a fraud!

Who cares? It's a games console. You know.. a toy.

Following the same pattern as every other games console release: Fairly beefy on release. Outdated within six months by £50 graphics cards on £100 computers.

Difference is, the games are usually designed around that less-than-optimal hardware so that they still run smoothly. I have a DS and 3DS here that probably have less poke than your average Android phone. The games are still awesome, though.

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Proof of the pudding

There is zero need to try to extrapolate its performance from its specs if you can just watch a video of what it can output. The demonstrations looked very impressive.

Judge for yourself.

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Re: What a shame! What a fraud!

3D benchmarks would have been a better choice for this purpose.

The A10 can be seriously pushed: my sons got theirs running at 4.6GHz (rather than 3.8 with 4.2 turbo) with the iGPU at 1.2GHz (rather than 800MHz) and our RAM is running at 2.4GHz rather than 800MHz, doubling the stock 3D benchmarks.

PS: With air-cooling and only a tiny voltage increase, this isn't some impractical LN2 system (in which the A10 has hit nearly 8GHz!)

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WTF?

Re: What a shame! What a fraud!

As mentioned, CPU performance in a game system is fairly meaningless for most games, and doubly so for console type games, it's the GPU that does all the real work.

I've got a 360, but am primarily a PC gamer, I've got an old rig, with an AMD 4 core CPU from several generations back. (was top of the line about 5 years ago), and I can still play every game installed on Ultra (or their highest option). The CPU is generally under utilised, as most games still only run in one, or maybe two threads, so the CPU might max out around 40-50% for a heavy game.

The only time a faster CPU would be useful would be for strategy games, where there is a lot of processing going on behind the scenes (rather than on screen), but those don't tend to be very common on consoles, so a mute point at the moment (may change in the future with improved console control systems of course).

If games were made to utilise muti cores better, even my 5 year old CPU would provide more than double the current required processing power for top end games (and that's top end on a PC, not top end on a current console). So a current (or next gen) AMD processor would provide more than enough CPU power for anything likely to be thrown at a next gen console for years to some.

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Re: What a shame! What a fraud!

Nonsense.

The Sony PS3 Cell CPU when it was released was beyond anything Intel had to offer at an higher price.

That was innovating. That was worth paying a premium price for.

The PS3 is still far from outdated.

The first pictures and demos of beta PS4 games just show how bad the hardware really is. It's already outdated. It offers nothing better than what an old PS3 can do. And it's worse than any medium-range PC.

That is the whole point.

A cheap $100 AMD APU hardware only to rip customers off is just a shame Sony and Microsoft managers deserve paying by going bankrupt!

Unless too many people will like being sheep wasting money on cheap AMD APU PCs.

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