Solar undercuts coal in New Mexico
Bloomberg is reporting something of a world first: a solar facility in Macho Springs, New Mexico, is planning to sell its energy to the grid substantially below the price of coal-fired power. The facility is under construction by First Solar, the news agency reports, and its customer is El Paso Electric. First Solar expects the …
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Re: We've had wind and solar power, like forever.
Thank you for backing nuclear.
Re: We've had wind and solar power, like forever.
In the UK, the start of the industrial revolution was driven by water power. If you visit Cromford Mill in Derbyshire and you'll see why it was located where it was, and why the Derbyshire Derwent valley is a world heritage site. Coal generated steam power was used because prior to the development of large dams and an electricity grid, hydro power could not be expanded when generated and used onsite to match industrial demand.
The existence of a grid and the possibilities of mass manufacture of renewable energy, and our dislike of smoke and C02 pollution are drivers to renewables, not any shortage of coal.
The stone age didn't end due to a shortage of stone either, but due to metals being able to do the job better.
Re: We've had wind and solar power, like forever.
No it didn't. The Industrial Revolution got going with water power. Coal came later.
The Industrial Revolution got going with water power. Coal came later.
The Industrial Revolution got going with cheap iron and low-carbon steel. From coal fired smelting.
Or if not, it's at least as arguable as your assertion that the Industrial Revolution "got going" with water power. Which is a sweet little harmless semantic point, but even then, kind of a minority view.
Why bother?
The majority don't care about anything but their pathetic little selves. Lets just burn as much coal and gas as possible and fuck up the planets climate. I don't care less about the kids future, I won't be here.
Humans are just so SMALL!
Interesting how much effort goes into denying change after it has actually happened.
Solar is already economic at the retail home level here in NZ.
Here in Auckland NZ, we have NO FEED IN TARIFF or subsidy of any kind.
Solar costs: (retail 1 off local cost today incl tax)
10kW Grid tie, complete package $30,000 + Installation $3000.
Generates 14500kWh/yr @0.28/kWh = $4060p.a. raw ROI= 12%. Cost of capital @5% (best term deposit rate I can get)
Nett ROI=7% above term deposit. Note that it is essentially tax free as displaced power usage is tax free, and sold power is offset against capital depreciation. So compared to putting my money in the bank, the return is 30% greater again.
For heat, a solar collector system & 500l high temp water tank produces 23kWh /day, during July (mid winter). This exceeds our home heating requirements. Cost $20,000 installed. This is a bit crazy, as only a $10k system is needed to displace 90% of annual heating requirement.
Total cost for greater than 100% home energy: ~$50000
Long run house price inflation of my house is $370k over 11 years = $33k p.a. = 8.7%p.a.
Somehow $33k p.a increase in house prices does make sense to people, but spending $50k ie $4k p.a. to generate all your home energy requirements does not make sense.
Didn't realise that the reg commentards were such experts. Who'd have though a BOFH could work out the planets energy needs.
Really!
The search for a viable sustainable energy source
Renewables are not about an attempt to cut Carbon dioxide emissions & their associated global warming effects ( a link yet tobe understood or proven in any true scientific methord yet). Its an on going attempt to develop in a real world senario viable alternatives to increasingly difficult to find finite resources for economic & most importantly strategic/political factors.Maybe as much effort, resources & political should be applied to achiving this, as given to the production and running of defense policies around the world & so break the prisoners dilema attitude.
Harvesting energy from...
...the overturning force of Manhattan-size icebergs calving from glaciers.
IFR NOW!!!
still the better solution for the wallet, the environment, hell for everything
This is the future - maybe the beginning of the end for steal and aluminium
For me, solar electricity and solar thermal power is the future: what's wrong with taking advantage of an energy source which is available in abundance? There are efforts already to create roof tiles that are in fact solar modules. What's holding us back in creating windows and pavements that are in fact electricity modules or thermal collectors?
Is this the end for coal? Not at all: you see, coal is almost to valuable to the burned off. There are much better uses for it like carbon fibre and graphene. Of course, we won't need to mine that much coal as we do today, but higher valuable goods will be made out of it. I'm sure carbon will replace steel and aluminium as building and manufacturing materials.
Re: This is the future - maybe the beginning of the end for steal and aluminium
"There are efforts already to create roof tiles that are in fact solar modules. What's holding us back in creating windows and pavements that are in fact electricity modules or thermal collectors?"
a fair amount of politics, the expense of installing such systems in a typical house, and the efficiencies of the currently available technology. Solar power is readily available here in Arizona, but it still takes subsidies and special programs from the local utilities to get people to install it in their homes.
"There are efforts already to create roof tiles that are in fact solar modules. What's holding us back in creating windows and pavements that are in fact electricity modules or thermal collectors?"
Well, the fact that the ones that exist are either fragile, far too expansive to build en masse, or not efficient enough to make any real savings.
Tiny point of pedantry (re coal cannot do that either)
Avgas != Jet A1
Avgas fuels aviation piston engines, Jet A1 fuels turbine engines.
Re: Tiny point of pedantry (re coal cannot do that either)
AvGas is just 100+octane gasoline. (or used to be)
I would like to mention
New Mexico is high desert. So you bake in the after noon and freeze at night.
"While Element Power Solar....."
For some reason my mind keeps swapping these words with, "White Elephant Power ...."
The inevitability of solar.
Install it.
Make a loss.
Wait. (Inflation makes everything else go up in price.)
Make a loss.
Wait. (Inflation makes everything else go up in price.)
Break even.
Wait. (Inflation makes everything else go up in price.)
Slowly get your money back.
Wait. (Inflation makes everything else go up in price.)
Get money for nothing.
25 year cost per unit == 12.7 pence in London.
Electricity currently 11 pence (http://www.britishgas.co.uk/pdf/Fixed%20Price%20June%202012%20Rates.pdf), but (http://www.castlecover.co.uk/historic-home-utility-prices/img/utility-prices.jpg) it is at the beginning of a steep curve.
You cannot beat an asset with a rising return.
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