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back to article It's official: Mac users are morally superior to Windows users

The online donation–management company Qgiv has analyzed the charitable-giving patterns of 165,000 people and found that Mac users are far more benevolent than Windows users. Qgiv analyzed 320,000 donations given through their donation platform from November 2011 through November 2012, and discovered that the average donation …

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FAIL

Fact: Saying "Fact." is not an acceptable substitute for actual facts.

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Ok, I have to be missing something.

The average for Windows users was 137.

The lowest browser was 138.

I (briefly) looked into Qgiv, and all I saw was a web-based donation system.

So, if you have to use a browser to donate, and the lowest possible is 138, how do you get an average of 137?

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Silver badge

one way...

returned check.

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Silver badge
Headmaster

zemerick: It's called, maths, it's a new trick people are using. (short answer: browsers can be used on different OS.)

Long answer: Eg, these sets of donations

Chrome - Windows - 10, 10, 10, 10

Chrome - Mac - 50, 50, 50, 50

IE - Windows - 20, 20, 20, 20

Average for Chrome is 30

Average for IE is 20

Average for Windows is 15

The average for windows is therefore less than the average for any one browser. Without looking at the raw data, it would be tricky to say exactly why, but it is probably like my noddy example, IE users give more than the average for windows, !IE users on windows give less than the average for windows, and !IE users on !windows give more than both.

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Holmes

Apple users have more money, and clearly have a habit of giving it away without demanding much in return.

Seems fairly obvious to me, and they used 'research' to come to this conclusion?

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Anonymous Coward

Personally, I give to charity to support single mothers, but pay in cash. You can usually find me dispensing philanthropy at the Spearmint Rhino, but I have been partial to Tantric Blue as of late.

It's my way of giving back and supporting gainful employment for young ladies.

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Facepalm

Er... what about those of us who donate directly to a charity rather than going through a site? Don't we skew the numbers?

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Alert

WTF?

$100++ is the "average" donation?

Bloody Hell! Whatever happened to the humble 50p in the collection tin?

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Silver badge

Re: WTF?

You give 50p, some flash bugger gives $200 for tax reasons... and hey presto, we're in the rough area of $100. That's how mean averages work. To know much more, we need diagrams...

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The biggest flaw with this "research" is that there's no attempt to compensate for differing socio-economic backgrounds. Less well-off individuals tend towards internet access primarily via work, public access and/or low-cost computers, which are overwhelmingly PCs.

It would be interesting to compare the average cost of the PC installed base vs the average cost of the installed Mac base (excluding in both cases system that are unlikely to be used for charitable donations, such as industrial control monitoring systems and music studio systems). If the resulting difference exceeds 25%, then I think we can discount the headline!

Incidentally, I wonder if the data counted user agent strings containing the words "like Mac OS X" as being Macs? A real (contemporary) Mac reports "Intel Mac OS X"; "like Max OS X" actually means "iThing" running iOS.

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Silver badge

Then you get the niches that screw the figures... teenagers with fairly expensive gaming PCs, who haven't yet matured to the point of charitable giving - or of they do, it was because they were 'chatted up' by an attractive charity mugger on the street.

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Facepalm

Just goes to show...

...That Apple users are stupid, giving their own money away to losers.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just goes to show...

Must be, since they seem to be in better jobs that give them more money and time. Funny how stupidity is so well rewarded. Just look at all the bitter comments here.

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FAIL

Re: Just goes to show...

I would love you to summon the ball's to call me stupid to my face

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FAIL

Re: ball's

I would love you to summon the intelligence to use apostrophes correctly, stupid.

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Re: Just goes to show...

Wow - I was expecting such ridiculous, anti-Mac bollox to attract far more up-votes.

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Silver badge

Re: Just goes to show...

El Reg Commentards in Not All Being Frothing Fanbois SHOCKER.

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Real Computer Economics

I purchase a new Mac on average about once every 5 years and keep the old as a backup because its still a very good computer. Friends with PCs rarely go half that time. Initial cost is more for a Mac but upkeep and depreciation is less.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Real Computer Economics

I must have imagined all those old Dells and Acer business machines we use for system testing that can run Windows 7 while equally old Macs are stuck on earlier versions of OS X. People replace PCs more frequently, in my experience, because they can afford to.

My feeling is that while some Mac users have more money, others are people who are more prone to making emotionally invested purchases that they can't quite afford. This may explain Apple's larger market share in the US, where that kind of consumerism seems more common than in Europe.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Real Computer Economics

If you really do, not sure I believe you, testing must be curious in your establishment, unless all your customers use only out-of-date hardware. I have had the dubious pleasure of working in two firm,s one large and American, one smallish and European, that insisted on Dells and, in both cases, Linux (Redhat for the big one, Slackware, later Suse for the smaller) and my present, gigantic employer, is moving from Solaris to Linux (Redhat) virtual machines on who knows what cheap hardware (I'm at the suffering end and get only the end results).

Then, it depends on what you call "old". Truly old hardware can not support Windows 7 or 8, at least not with a useable performance, because of limited memory capacity and other hardware and firmware limits. I know, I've got some such hardware and have used more at work.

I can only the experience with multiple returns of multiple Dell kit (thank heavens for same day Gold Service, makes up for the saved pennies in service charges) and the often very flaky interpretations of how UNIX utilities should work and do simple things well, using pipes and filters to manage interesting tasks) have put me off both. But then I am a UNIX engineer of many years experience on many real lUNIXes who recognises bad implementation when he sees it, whatever the apparent cost.

On the other hand, my old thinkpad is 11 years old and still working, at the pace of cold treacle on XP, just, as is my five year old macbook, very well and fast , on Lion, complete with its lovely, BSD o/s and full shell, LAMP etc., without having to go through idiocy to get the most basic drivers and compilers working properly.

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Re: Real Computer Economics

And the further east you go in Europe the less macs you see. I live in a border country to old sovjet. We fought Russia in WWII. Paid war depts to russia after the war.

Not lot's of mac's here, compared to our neighbor countries in west. Who suffered less.

Still I use windows 5/7 days in the week. The 2 other days when i can choose, I would never burn my money on it. For me I could just as well throw my money into the fireplace as buy a windows pc. Why buy something that I would not use or even less like to use?

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Coat

Re: Real Computer Economics

Now that is funny as I have had my computer at home for 5 years and I don't see any need to replace it any time soon. My 2nd computer is 8 years old. Neither have any problems with it.

At work we use computers that are minimum 2 year old refurbished HP's and we use them for a good few years. Some of the boxes get loaded with Linux if they are file servers and then the desktop ones get loaded with Windows.

Personally I prefer windows as it is what I am used to and what I know how to get the most out of. I know with tweaking I could get more out of my Linux but at home I like my old school games, so windows XP is sound for that.

In my opinion it is the people with more disposable income that have Mac's and are generally the more technically un-savvy of the lot. But just as I an am exception to the rule as I use both Linux and Windows and am technically competent you will have mac users that are very competent... but just personally I have seen more of the former then the latter when talking about Mac users.

I'll get me coat, it's the one with the windows PE disk and USB linux boot in the pocket.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Real Computer Economics

What we make is largely small footprint agents that run with a few percent of CPU doing basic monitoring and housekeeping tasks with uptimes in the months to years timescale. Virtualised environments are just not good enough for testing this on their own, though obviously we do a lot of testing in VMs.

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Re: Real Computer Economics

"I purchase a new Mac on average about once every 5 years"

That's a normal time frame for a PC too. Ironically my girlfriends 3 year old MacBook which cost more than twice my Laptop cant upgrade to the latest version of OS X and same with my 4 year old Mac Mini.

"Friends with PCs rarely go half that time"

Unless they are buying the bottom of the range kit they are probably wasting money then. I am using a 6 year old Pentium D based desktop right now with no issues

"Initial cost is more for a Mac but upkeep and depreciation is less."

Very true

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Silver badge

Fixed in the next service pack.

Maybe.

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Bronze badge

I think we missed the point

In starting the old Mac/OpenSource/Windows (in alphabetical order not preference) arguments.

The thing we overlooked is that QGIV (never heard of them) are releasing stories to increase their own exposure not to highlight any genuine discernable useful information about one or other groups in society.

ie a manipulated news story for manipulating their newsworthyness (sorry, about that last word)

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Paris Hilton

Re: I think we missed the point

Yeah, I feel a wee bit dirty contributing to this thread.

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Logic Fail

Your methodology is flawed. The study in question shows that Mac users donate, on average, more than Windows users do. It's your assumption that Mac users are more generous than Windows users that's flawed. It's the causal relationship that matters here. It's no surprise to anyone that Apple computers generally cost more than comparable products running Windows. There are notable exceptions but as a general rule this is true. Given that fact, people on a limited budged are significantly more likely to purchase PCs running Windows than they are a Mac. The natural result of this inference is that percentage-wise, people who use Apple computers tend to have more disposable income to work with than those who use PCs running Windows. That's not an indication that said people are more generous, only that they have more money they don't need.

I find myself reminded of the South Park episode about the clouds of Smug surrounding eco-friendly car owners =D

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Are you really that surprised? Surveys have shown Mac user to be more educated and higher pay earners then Windows users. Also Mac user pay for their software while the majority of Windows users have no problem pirating, they even brag about it. They go for the cheapest possible hardware.

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Anonymous Coward

"Surveys have shown Mac user to be more educated and higher pay earners then Windows users."

Surveys conducted by who? Apple? In my work repairing computers, I've seen roughly the same spread of Mac users occupations as Windows. No, we don't ask everyone what they do for a living - it's a small country town so we just know most of the customers.

"Also Mac user pay for their software while the majority of Windows users have no problem pirating"

Uh huh... One quick search on the Pirate Bay suggests Mac users have no problems pirating Apple software either. Try a search for "Final Cut Pro". Or OSX Mountain Lion - there's 182 people downloading an ISO right now from one torrent alone.

"They go for the cheapest possible hardware."

Of course. My laptop decision was easy - Asus Zenbook. Better specs than the Macbook Air, same price. It was destined to have Linux and Win7 anyway, so having the license for Windows included just made it even better value.

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wealthier anyway

considering the price of the toys in Apple's walled garden, one would hope that the inmates would be more generous as well as more profligate.

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Breaking news!

People with more money to waste give more to charity. Is El Reg's Department of Stating The Bleeding Obvious behind this article?

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FAIL

Re: Breaking news!

Neither buying a Mac nor giving to charity is a "waste".

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Joke

Windows users have been the most generous indirectly of course, thanks to the generosity of Bill and Melinda Gates. Apple users have some way to go yet if they're trying to even the odds.

C'mon, buy Windows for Christmas and make sure your hard earned dollars go to a good cause :D

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Silver badge

The joke icon...

....is, er, for a joke not a statement of fact.

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Pint

Re: The joke icon...

Was just trying to keep my observation light-hearted!

I personally regard Bill Gates as a modern day Robin Hood and an example to all millionaires+ everywhere.

Now if I can just go make my first million, I can join the club helping others less fortunate than myself :)

This probably won't be popular.

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Silver badge

Re: The joke icon...

>I personally regard Bill Gates as a modern day Robin Hood

Helping thousands if not millions of unfortunate souls in devolving countries with healthcare, disease-eradication efforts and basic infrastructure, by causing years of minor irritations to Windows users (such as myself). Ah well, I can live with that.

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d2
WTF?

Re: The joke icon...

you betcha!??

Dave Mihalovic,PreventDisease.com notes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Gi6cf-jiI

'Bill Gates on GM foods, vaccines ...'

In the video above, Bill Gates states at 0:11:

"Over this decade, we believe unbelievable products can be made

both inventing new vaccines and making sure they get to all the children that need them."

At 0:20 he continues:

"We could cut the number of children who die every year

from about 9 million to half of that if we have success on it."

Now here is the statement straight from the source which should not leave any doubts

on the intention of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Listen carefully at 0:28:

"The benefits are in terms of reducing sickness,

reducing the population growth. It really allows a society to take care of itself once you've made that intervention."

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Boffin

I don't know what the geographic distribution of Mac users is

Is their clientele proportionately larger in Anglo-Saxon countries or other societies where charitable giving is more of a cultural standard?

Then again, maybe they just ask themselves "what would Jesus-phone do?" :) OK, that was an iPhone user joke instead of a Mac user joke, but I did try...

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Meh

People with more expensive PCs...

have more disposable income. Shock.

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Meh

Affluence =/= charity

Whilst the *amount* of moeny given away by mac users may be greater, I wonder if that amount represented a greater *percentage* of their income, or less - I give to charity each month, but it's well within my means - if the person next to me gave the ame amount to charity despite making less, I'd consider them more "charitable" than I.

In any case, the cynical part of me sees the purpose of this study being to guilt people into giving more to charity - since windows users vastly outnumber Apple users (in the desktop environment at least) it seems prudent for them to come to a conclusion that paints the majority of people as needing to donate more (and, given the state of the world, perhaps we do).

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Anonymous Coward

A fool and their money ...

... is soon parted.

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Silver badge

Re: A fool and their money ...

So how is then that these 'fools' still have the money to buy a Mac, then?

No really, please do expand on your reasoning.

(do bear in mind that any price difference between PCs and Macs is no more than a few hundred dollars if that, whereas even the most basic 'upgrade' package on a new car, for example, is far, far more. Hell, in the UK, Ford charge £250 for a wretched DAB radio to be factory-fitted to your new Focus, never mind fancy wheels, leather upholstery or upgraded sound system etc. A slightly nicer house? Thousands. A couple eating out once more per month over a year? One extra pint of beer per week, over a year? Hundreds. You don't need a spreadsheet to get the gist.)

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Trollface

You got it all wrong

Apple customers already sold away their soul, so they feel the urge to compensate somehow.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: You got it all wrong

Hehe, funny you mention souls... Today I happened to watching a music video from "How You Sell Your Soul to a Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul?" and spotted that Chuck D had a Macbook on his desk. Many contemporary musicians do- and whilst they aren't all Mozart or Hendrix, there is soul out there still.

So far though, I have yet to see Flavor Flav with an iPad (with clock app, naturally) hung around his neck, though!

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Ah lies and statistics. Its all about interpretation. Its a shame they did not also include "donation as a % of income", not that they would have that info but anyway I would expect it to tell a different story.

I wonder how I would be classed in the survey, a Windows PC, an iPhone , a Macbook and multiple Debian servers...

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Anonymous Coward

I wish people would stop saying things are "officially" this or that when they're not officially anything. Its just a tiny, unscientific survey that means absolutely bugger all.

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Anonymous Coward

I'm guessing they are also not afriad to mention the fact

in their winebar cozyclubs , about how they sponsored children in Africa, whilst posing on their iDevice for all to see...

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Re: I'm guessing they are also not afriad to mention the fact

Not forgetting laughing at people like you that are unable to use a spell checker when posting publicly.

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Holmes

It's all relative...

This isn't a dig at either camp, but given the cost of ownership in the two camps (even second hand Apple kit goes for considerable money), one must be able to conclude that Mac users probably have more disposable income.

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