North Korean rocket works, puts something into orbit
North Korea has successfully launched a rocket that it claims is a peaceful vehicle, but which western nations suspect is a long-range missile. The launch took place at around 01:00 GMT and saw a Kwangmyongsong-3 rocket soar aloft, according to Reuters. The North American Airspace Defense Command (NORAD) published the following …
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I would like to congratulate North Korean on the first unicorn in space!!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/02/unicorn_lair_foun_in_north_korea/
More seriously, I guess that we will now have to spend some more tax money on missle defenses, since the North Koreans seem to be able to launch stuff at least as far as Anchorage or Honolulu.....
Re: I would like to congratulate North Korean on the first unicorn in space!!
Would anyone in the USA actually miss Anchorage or Honolulu?
I'm sure any North Korean rocket would though...
Re: I would like to congratulate North Korean on the first unicorn in space!!
I'd miss Honolulu, I thought it was a very pleasant place.
Re: I would like to congratulate North Korean on the first unicorn in space!!
@I Ain't Spartacus
>Would anyone in the USA actually miss
Uhm, at the very least the people of Hawaii and Alaska would miss HI and AK, as they're part of the USA. And not to mention the rest of the US, lamenting the loss of domestic oil production...
Puts "something" into orbit?
I foresee another mission objective for the very secretive USAF X-37B..
Re: Puts "something" into orbit?
Unfortunately the X-37B, that was launched last night, is in a very different orbital plane to the Korean satellite. The Korean satellite is in a polar orbit and the X37 has been placed into a mid inclined orbit around the equator. True, the X37 has quite a high capability for orbital change and this will no doubt be used soon to confuse the satellite spotters, but I think that this kind of plane change would be beyond it. To be able to intercept the Korean satellite the X37 would have to be launched from Vandenburg into a polar orbit.
Interestingly, so far no one has commented on any kind of signal coming from the Korean bird, I wonder if it's inert or not worked as planned.
Re: Puts "something" into orbit?
On eof the original design goals for the Shuttle was the ability to change its orbital inclination in such a way, an instruction that came from the military, and one of the reasons the eventual design was a compromise, and much more expensive than it could have been. Observers can't have failed to notice that the X-37B has the same basic shape as the Shuttle (albeit somewhat smaller), and so quite possibly shares the same design principles, and is able to shift orbits in exactly such a way.
Keen!
"World leaders aren't keen on the launch, or on doing anything about it".
Re: Keen!
Bugs me that the UN is completely useless in situations like this. The only words to come out of Ban's mouth are something to the effect of "I urge all sides not to do anything that would cause instability [on the Korean peninsula]."
NK has barely any food, surely if they don't grow up and prove themselves worthy of food aid, they'll just die and collapse? Food aid from the US was revoked as a result of the first test earlier this year.
Re: Keen!
If this is a way of inspiring the rest of the world to give them aid... It's an odd way of asking for help.
Re: Keen!
The leadership is dysfunctional. From that all else follows
Re: Keen!
It's an odd way of asking for help.
Arguably it's no different to attention seeking behaviour from a child. Iran exhibits the same tendencies, as did Libya for some years (Venezuela's trying hard as well). Sometimes it is for aid, but more commonly its a misguided presumption that the US doesn't take them as seriously they deserve, a bit like a hoody picking a fight for being "disrespected".
In the UK we accept that (even as fifth/sixth largest economy on Earth) we are the Yank's poodle, and treated as such. But the Norks and the Iranians seem to entertain a rather amusing idea that they deserve a seat at the top table, and when they don't get that they start throwing the toys out of the pram.
Re: Keen!
"a bit like a hoody picking a fight with a heavily armed, well-trained and practised killing machine for being "disrespected"."
Fixed that for you!
I think tin-pot dictators get by with the idea that the US's forces are a bunch of decadent, ill-led westerners whose advantage in technology will be overcome by the sheer will-to-power of the natives*. Which belies the fact that not only do most of the natives under General-level don't HAVE any morale because they are treated like dirt, nor do they have a full stomach. It also conveniently ignores the fact that US troops are a well-trained force of veterans who bear little resemblance to homeland burger-munchers. And steely resolve isn't an effective force multiplier in any way when someone rains precision guided weapons down on you with total impunity.
Sure: Asymmetric warfare can continue after your country has already been rolled, but it's startlingly un-useful for dictators who've already been vaporised by laser-guided munitions, or had their precious palace levelled and power structure annihilated.
*cf: Iraq (twice), every pointy-stick-armed native rebellion who ever charged maxim guns.
Re: Keen!@Psyx
In part you're right that they may misjudge the balance of military capability, but an even more important thing that dictators appear to routinely believe is that the Yanks Won't Do It. You can see that in Iran right now, and in Syria. We saw it in Iraq, Libya, Kosovo etc.
Because the UN is dysfunctional (on account largely of allowing non-democratic nations a seat on the security council) the judgement is most of the time correct. Assad's in no obvious danger from outside, for example.
Re: Keen!@Psyx
"In part you're right that they may misjudge the balance of military capability, but an even more important thing that dictators appear to routinely believe is that the Yanks Won't Do It. You can see that in Iran right now, and in Syria. We saw it in Iraq, Libya, Kosovo etc."
True. And yet they really will if they see enough gain from it.
I think that there is this misconception that the US will run away crying if you send half a dozen body-bags home and that a willingness to take more casualties than them will magically ensure a win. Truth is that nobody ever won a war by telling their troops that it didn't matter how out-gunned they were, nor how many of them died: The foe would give in first because they weren't willing to lose as many men. You can't drown your enemies in a sea of your own blood.
The US is sensitive to casualties, but not as sensitive as people like to think (The USMC is essentially ablative armour for the rest of the army, for a start). Add in a very refined control of the propaganda media machine and the fact that 99.9% of the entire US population won't ever be directly affected by the war while their foes are going to be seeing the USAF operating with impunity overhead and you come to see that the US has a much higher morale than their foes, both in terms of the military and wider population.
"Assad's in no obvious danger from outside, for example."
Overtly, anyway.
Whatever it is up there, it's a lump...
What on earth (excusez le pun) did they put up there ? Because unfortunately, we can not depend upon the NK great leader for it to be something scientific or sensible.
Pretty much everything NK has announced in the last few decades has been stuff geared towards giving them leverage in negotiations for aid of sorts. Their whole economy seems to be based on extortion.
So I wouldn't put it past them to put up a small and extremely dirty nuke (can such weights be lifted into space by this missile ?) or a chemical or bio payload.
Re: Whatever it is up there, it's a lump...
I suspect it is a cabbage. Just to show everybody that there is food in North Korea.
Re: Whatever it is up there, it's a lump...
> Just to show everybody that there is food in North Korea.
Was. They just launched it into space.
Re: Whatever it is up there, it's a lump...
No, it's a spy satellite.
A cabbage with a DSLR (with wi-fi card) duct-taped to it. Polar orbit so it can take pictures of the US.
Re: Whatever it is up there, it's a lump...
What's the point of putting a single dirty bomb in orbit? What's it going to do up there? And why put it on a test rocket? If that's what they were doing, then it would have been on the prior one, too... and that didn't cause fall-out of any kind when it blew up prior to orbit.
So that makes no sense. Likewise, why put biological weapons in a totally untested re-entry vehicle?
If you're going to fantasise about NK weaponising space, then they'd do it with a nice traditional nuke in LEO, which would fry umpteen billion dollars worth of everyone else's sats and generally do EMP-based naughtiness.
Re: Whatever it is up there, it's a lump...
Well, we don't know exactly where the ol' pater's kid is on the batshit scale either. As for it being a small nuke, I doubt it. The plot of Home Front might be fairly engaging and also quite obvious propaganda, but the US is neither on its knees through fuel starvation. nor about to do anything other than act like a rabid dog if somebody did EMP the shit out of North America.
Of course, that could be the plan.</paranoia>
And in the West...
The UK slips down another notch in space launch history.
Re: And in the West...
at least prospero did something measurable.
Re: And in the West...
oh and isnt virgin galactic a british company?
Re: And in the West...
Virgin Galactic- yes indeed, and a private one at that; the Govt decided there was no future in space launching a long time ago, preferring to embark on a downward slope instead.
Good luck, Mr Branson- the Govt don't deserve the future.
Re: And in the West...
Yes, it is a British company & it's launched... Erm...
Next year it it will launch... Erm...
Ok, it'll put people into (sub)orbit starting in... Erm... soon.
Virgin Galactic, selling $100,000 tickets and delivering... Nothing!
Makes you proud to be British.
While back in Blighty
efforts are underway in Shropshire to join the race for space
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqtKktjAx7c
Well done!
Well, just to counter the almost universal "Oh noes. North Korea is going to take over the world!" mass hysteria [caused presumably by a mixture of drinking US government kool-aid and watching too many James Bond films], I'd like to applaud North Korea's technical achievement.
Re: Well done!
I would like to join you in that.
I don't care what the regime is but a successful space launch is an achievement to be proud of. And the more nations get indigenous space launch capability the more likely it is that one or more of them will want to go further and farther than throwing CB radios into orbit.
So, let them sing their kwang-my-dong song, they deserved it!
Re: Well done!
I wholeheartedly agree it is an achievement, and the scientists and engineers involved certainly deserve congratulations. Raise a glass of Munbaeju for them.
However, the politicians might change their priorities. I might suggest "food first, rockets later" as a suitable mnemonic for a policy that will serve the people better.
Re: Well done!
"food first, rockets later" For the Chinese, or the NKs?
People need to see that there are things bigger than they are, that man's reach should exceed his grasp, so that you know that there's something damn well worth living for. Whether that's religion, collective achievement, or whatever floats your boat. We all desire something... numinous.
Re: Well done!
Ah, but i've seen the "Adventures of Kim jong un" cartoons on Youtube.
Its all a cover, He's probably been quietly farting "Friendship missiles" into orbit for years.
Re: Well done!
I suppose you would also applaud Nazi Germany launching the V2. Well done NK for launching a primitive rocket; meanwhile hundreds of thousands of NK people are born and live in the gulag, until they are beaten/starved/worked to death.
Re: Well done!
"...I suppose you would also applaud Nazi Germany launching the V2..."
Certainly not. And I'm glad that, after the war the Allies destroyed all advanced Nazi space/rocketry research [including that obtained from experimentation on concentration camp inmates] and had nothing whatsoever to do with the the evil Nazi scientists, such as Werner von Braun, who were responsible for it all.
...Oh, wait.
Re: Well done!
This known in economics textbooks as the "guns or butter" question.
me: I choose beer!
Re: Well done!
"I'd like to applaud North Korea's technical achievement"
I wouldn't. Given that they're repressing a country of 25 million people, I'd want something better than this to applaud the techncial achievement. For crying out loud, the Reg SPB put a paper aircraft into space, and how many people are they repressing and starving? Just a few sub editors who probably deserve it, I'd guess.
@Ledswinger
"Just a few sub editors who probably deserve it, I'd guess."..
Undoubtedly, but I'm sure there are other equally (at least) deserving cases within El Reg's hallowed portals...
Re: Well done!
"I suppose you would also applaud Nazi Germany launching the V2."
Pretty much the same thing as applauding the moon landings, really. Same tech. Same people behind it.
Also: Godwins.
Well done North Korea. Stick it to those jumped up piece of shit politicians in every other country in the world.
Enemy mine has its limits
Look, I know our politicians suck. I know they're in the pockets of amoral and corrupt corporations, I know our governments are liars and crooks, I know the greedy bankers etc. etc. etc. I share your anger and your pain.
But just stop and take a look at what NK's leadership actually is compared to ours before you start proclaiming that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Answer me this: If you're going to be bitten, would you rather be bitten by a dog, or by a viper?
Re: Enemy mine has its limits
Would that be a normal dog, rabid dog or a dog with bees in its mouth that barked to shoot bees at you before it bit you?
Re: Enemy mine has its limits
"But just stop and take a look at what NK's leadership actually is compared to ours before you start proclaiming that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Answer me this: If you're going to be bitten, would you rather be bitten by a dog, or by a viper?"
Id rather let the dog and viper fight each other and not be bitten at all.
The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy. I win. Except I am my own worst enemy.
Re: Enemy mine has its limits
How big's the dog? Does it need its teeth cleaned?
Re: Enemy mine has its limits
....I speak as someone who nearly lost an "entire leg" due to mosquitoes and subcutaneous strep.
Vipers, pah!! We don''t need no steenking....
They had to ultrsound flow-check my veins and arteries to make sure I still had any that worked........
Tip of the week-don''t scratch yer bites! Your skin's there for a reason!
And if you get black blood coming out of your leg and a clanging headache and fever up to 40Deg C ... well!
don''t just sit at home.... I did for a week, but the guy before me for 2 weeks... but bearing in mind it was rapidly approaching his bo***cks up his leg from below....... not good! Time to get the priest on standby!
The cure is of course gasoline-pump-style antibiotics most of the day into your arm for up to 7 weeks......
Thought this inanity might distract you from Norks :P
Does anyone else like the North Korean news presenter's style?
We should demand the BBC and Sky adopt the same style of terrifying enthusiasm when discussing the latest triumphs of the coalition:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/dec/12/north-korea-launches-rocket-video
Re: Does anyone else like the North Korean news presenter's style?
If we launched a rocket in France's backyard, they'd be people out in the streets in celebration. We did own/run an empire once.
Re: Does anyone else like the North Korean news presenter's style?
If we launched a rocket in France's backyard, they'd be people out in the streets in celebration. We did own/run an empire once.
Yes, but the French have their own nuclear deterrent, and one that they (rather than Washington) have the keys to. They might fight back, attacking Dover with multiple garlic warheads, for example, or setting off a dirty cheese bomb in Knightsbridge.
So I like your idea, but I think we should choose somewhere that doesn't pose much threat. The Channel Islands, or Denmark seem credible options.
Well done
Well done NK. Stick it to the man..
While I don't approve of the way they run their society (which is not Communist by the way but more like Nazism), I applaud them for this technical achievement.
Also, this is not an 'illegal' launch as many will have you believe. NK is a sovereign country, they can do whatever they want.
"Stick it to the man"???? Srsly?
"Well done Kim, you are really sticking it to the Man by launching your missile!"
Never mind that to millions of Koreans he IS the Man!
Srsly, that's an insane thing to say. Launching a missile has nothing to do with the equal dignity of the Korean people, and is all about Kim and the ruling clique holding on to their absolute power. But to you, that's "sticking it to the man".
Bonkers.
Re: Well done
"Well done NK. Stick it to the man."
That's either ironic or stupid. I'm not sure which.
The NK leadership certainly are sticking it to the man, if by 'the man' you mean the millions of their own people they could have bothered feeding instead of launching a vanity project.
Or do you mean that PRNK are sticking it to 'the man' in that 'the men' there in the ruling elite are sticking it to 'the men' in the ruling elite in the rest of the world, by doing something that the others did about 50 years ago?
I know that if I was 'the man' in a civilised first world nation, being driven to an expensive dinner party in a Bentley, in a £1000 suit, reading the news on my iPad, while sipping 25 year old scotch, I'd feel very 'stuck to' to read this news. Not.
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