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back to article Apple shares take biggest one-day hammering in 4 years

Apple shares took the biggest single-day hit in four years on Wednesday, falling more than 6 percent on NASDAQ to $538.79. The tumble took Apple's market cap down to $506.84bn, well below the dizzy heights of $705.07 billion reached in September this year. Yesterday saw an eye-watering $34.8 billion wiped off the total value of …

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Re: The venomous Leach at it again

It's quite possible that its being engineered by some trading firm

I will spare the jokes about offering solutions one knows little about yet the traded volumes were way too low to engineered fall.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The venomous Leach at it again

Lack of stock - because they've all gone.

I posted earlier about a friend whose store shifted almost 1700 in 2 days.

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Re: The venomous Leach at it again

John Lewis is at the posher end of the retail spectrum, and despite their "never knowingly undersold" slogan, I've never found their prices to be the cheapest and can always find anything they sell cheaper elsewhere.

However, my experience in PCWorld just yesterday was that there is huge interest in low to mid-priced android tablets, and no interest in iPads. The budget-conscious general public, who have been getting into smartphones via cheap android offerings and now getting into tablets the same way. By this time next year, I expect the wind will have gone from Apple's sails and they will have only a small share of the tablet market, as they now do in smartphones.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The venomous Leach at it again

Android, like Linux and Unix before it has one redeeming feature - it's free. Pretty much sums it up really

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Re: The venomous Leach at it again @.stu

I think your observation is true because few prospective Apple buyers would go to PCWorld anyway.

My expereince of the Branch in Watford on Wednesday showed a lack of interest in any tablets - in fact the saff outnumbered the customers something like 4:1

(PS I was there because they have some of the best deals on Powerline units at the moment)

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404
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Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

"See? I told you so!" - Jobs was Apple, Apple was Jobs.

There can only be One and The Steve ate any competition within the company long ago, leaving corporate drones and lawyers.

IMO

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Meh

Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

Steve Jobs left Jony Ive with more power than anyone else at Apple, for the reason that he has been instrumental in Apple's comeback.

I just got an iPad mini from Apple. The queue for them was massive, and they are constantly running out of stock of all models.

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Coat

Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

I'm killing myself here...

You imagine the epic sword fights at Apple Headquarters? Lightning from different floors, viewing portals (windows) blowing out, and The Steve emerging triumphant? LMFAO!

And I'm not even an Apple fan..

;)

.....The coat with every Microsoft Service Pack ever released on thumbdrive (and that LOST.DIR folder Android insists on) in pocket

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404
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Pirate

Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

.....the turtleneck came to be after a close one..... ahhhhhhhhhh!

SOMEBODY HELP ME! lmao!

;)

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Thumb Up

Re: Jobs is pointing up/down/sideways/nowhere

Yes, they are pretty slick for the form factor. I was pleasantly surprised how good they were in use, as was TheReg reviewer, but I have the big brother so I don't need one and I prefer larger (older eyes).

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Anonymous Coward

www.misco.co.uk have stock of the 32gb wifi + 3g models.

but price.... Price is very very high

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Fashion?

Apple kit has been fashionable over the past few years.

But the problem with stuff that is fashionable is that it will always go out of fashion.

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Re: Fashion?

That's the beauty of being a fashion item - you keep selling the new ones to people who already have the old ones despite the fact there's nothing wrong with one they have.

But I don't really subscribe to the view that Apple products are fashion statements for most people - since the people I know value longevity, ease of use and maybe TCO over always having the latest model. But I have no metrics for the rest of the world, this is only anecdotal.

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Black Helicopters

Share price is not really sentiment

I'm not defending Apple, however...

I was sitting at a table with big cheese investor, think big Private Equity, at a dinner in San Francisco a while back and he talked about dark pools and their interaction with stock exchanges. Slightly over my head, but what stuck with me was the average holding period of a stock - which he said is driven by algorithms and measured in seconds...

Anyway, the point being these sudden changes in share price are more to do with cascading software responses than human opinion.

Still, I agree Apple has past their peak and valuation is likely to go from ridiculous to slightly less ridiculous.

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Headmaster

Re: Share price is not really sentiment

You perhaps should read up on this. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_trading

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Holmes

Re: Share price is not really sentiment

really past their peak valuation?

I thought APPL had a remarkably low P/E, the most common way to value a company.

You could also argue that the share price is building a base from which to go higher.

No, I personally believe it has more to do with the perception on the global economy. The West is still struggling to lift itself out of the doldrums, consumer spending is not 'bouncing back', living costs going up all the time etc etc. The East has yet to take the spending reins. So the big investors look around for shares that can take a hit, APPL being their favourite.

Then again, maybe APPL is heading for the pits and my 2012 MacMini is the last computer I'll buy.

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WTF?

The threat from windows/nokia was cited as a threat? Really?

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"The threat from windows/nokia was cited as a threat? Really?"

Yes really. Market analysts and pundits try to take a long term view. While Windows 8 is not a threat today, it could well be a big threat in 2 or 3 years time. Anyone with a large position in AAPL might be thinking AAPL won't be worth as much in 2 or 3 years time and are cashing in now. Didn't Jony Ive sell most of his shares recently?

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Linux

There is a solid difference between fanboi and investors. You are seeing who is more influential of the two.

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Many reasons

I think people are starting to finally see through what Apple is doing. Dropping the "All New iPad" so soon after launch and using software as a model differentiator. "You can only have Siri on an iPhone 4S, you can't have it on your iPhone 4" is a very poor way of selling products. The problem is they are releasing too many products now, so between each new hardware version that are no significant innovations. That is why they dumped the "All New iPad" to make the New All New iPad look better than the iPad2.

Add to that they are still being draconian with their software approvals and yet they are still letting useless expensive and in some cases trojan apps out of the door.

I love my iPhone, but i also love my Galaxy S3 and the freedom I have to install what I want on it.

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Bugger, make that double bugger

Didn't buy Apple shares on the way up

Didn't short them from the peak.

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Rob
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Go

More likely...

... the drop is reflecting that the market/investors probably don't have confidence in the current management structure and the current CE.

Apple products still get made and still get sold, Android market share has been higher than Apple's in the phone biz for awhile now so I doubt it has anything to do with that. Windows Phone 8 still hasn't proved to be a threat (yet?) so I doubt competition is that much of a driving factor for the ever so minor drop.

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Re: More likely...

Problem is there's no insanely great cool new consumer item to 'one last thing' over.

Apple could have make another pile of cash by opening up the iTunes store to small-scale video makers and making this a feature.

The big media corps would have lost some of their power, fanbois would have loved the chance to get all fame-y and make some cash, and new software and new hardware could have appeared on the back of the plan.

Instead we got a thinner iMac and a small iPad. Which are nice and all, but, er...

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FAIL

Re: More likely...

You've never worked on "the street", have you?

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Boffin

Another possible reason.....

could be the impending increase in US capital gains taxes. Obama wants to screw anyone who has more than He thinks is "Fair". Anyone with money invested/saved should be worried since this US president has clearly stated he believes in "Redistribution of wealth". Since Apple has traditionally horded its cash and failed to provide dividends to its shares holders, this is the best time to sell most/all and take the current capital gains rate? People who have money, have it because they are active thinkers and look beyond one week, one month.

US new motto will be changed from "Land of the free and home of the brave" to "Land of the not so free and do as Obama says"

Sorry for the political rant, but its been frustrating not having a leader in the WH.

Best wishes for the coming year for all nations,

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Re: Another possible reason.....

Why not bring back George W Bush, or Bill Clinton but would you really call them "leaders".

I can't remember the last time that the Good Ol Usa really had a leader...... Kennedy maybe but then again they shot him as soon as he bacame to much of a handfull.....

This little song comes into my head - "like a puppet on a string" .tra la la tra la la.......

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Re: Another possible reason.....

A moment of silence please for all those poor CEOs and their cash hoards.

What a tragedy that an entire generation of Randian heroes - like Apotheker, Fiorina, Ryan, Ballmer, Blankfein and co - will see their hard work and towering genius destroyed by some guy who realises they're really just dangerously self-important morons with entitlement issues whose contribution to the real economy is somewhere between zip, fuck all, and exterminate.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Another possible reason.....

Sorry to bust your bubble but ' People who have money, have it because they are active thinkers and look beyond one week' is absolute bollocks. There are very few self-made millionaires, it isn't easy to do. I would estimate that >90% of the 1%ers got their wealth from Daddy, who got it from his Daddy and they are the kind of person who will be most affected by capital gains tax. It is very easy to stay rich if you start rich.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Another possible reason.....

Theyre not Randian at all. tbh not sure of all of them, but Ballmer certainly isnt. Rand was a big fan of Producers. People who create or enable the creation of stuff, and a big fan of the Free Market sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Ballmer isnt producing anything and is taking a beating in the market for it. Microsoft is surviving simply on momentum. They could still be saved, but not while he's in charge.

Jobs era Apple were more Randians than Ballmer-era Microsoft.

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Dont panic

He'll be back soon. I admit, its taking a longer than the 3 days it took the last one, but I'm confident he'll return. For it has been written.

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Mini is 'just for Xmas'

Quite obviously an upgraded Mini comes out in March.

Apple did not want to compete with the Retina iPad so they shrunk the better iPad 2.

Problem is they never upgraded anything with that screen needing real improvement for the price point.

I still think the sell off is hasty even if the iPHone 5 happens to be 18 months behind the trend.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

So what if a new one comes out - do you whine at Samsung or other Android makers for improving their product / releasing more products. Apple are damned if they do or they don't - don't and Samsung release a 10.2" screen to beat Apple's 10.1" and people claim Apple are being left behind - do and you get accused of upgrading too often. The fact is Apple users do not upgrade at every new model - I suspect most on a 2-3 year cycle for phones and 2-4 years for iPads. The second fact is Apple stuff lasts longer - still have a 3GS that is 4+ years old and still supported / running iOS 6 - can Android say that of any / all it's phones?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

Re the 3GS, released mid 2009, Thats still marketing. They were sold on contracts until late this year as the budget iPhone,. To make sure customers didn't get pissed, Apple had to keep updating them. Its still a crippled IOS6 due to the devices age.

Android doesn't require old models to become budget, manufacturers release new models in all price ranges. Depending on your contract, you'll already have been offered a much newer Android handset for free as an upgrade.by now. If not, you need to be contacting your network..

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Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

The retina won't happen for a while. The manufacturers are not making much profit on the complicated new mini screens and i doubt will commit to a new line until they have some margin.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

Re 3GS. No it's not. That is incorrect. You don't own one (I do). If you did you would know that despite a couple of useless functions (amongst others Siri which is largely useless outside USA) the device is better for iOS6 being installed. Safari is way faster and nothing else is slower. Take your bullshit somewhere else and enjoy your shite Galaxy Ace on Android 2.3. I am sure you can get a great contract on it. dork

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FAIL

Re: Mini is 'just for Xmas'

"Android say that of any / all it's phones?"

No

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Joke

It's ok

I sold all my apple shares to buy ones in facebook...

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Anonymous Coward

easy way to recoup $34Bn

Re-label the iDevice version x as iDevice version x+1.

You don't have to add any features (you can even make it worse if you want to) - or better still just the change the label on the box.

All the fanbois will go out any buy it again.

Repeat as necessary until the stock market is happy.

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It's not like they're the first company to be over valued

There are plenty of under valued businesses that don't have Apple's fame and profile. Still, I doubt anyone on Apple's Bored are going to be loosing any sleep over this. They're a sound business sitting on a pile of cash and making lots more. The poor schmucks who bought their shares at the top might be loosing sleep though. Especially if we're looking at a long term correction.......

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Fairly valued per the profit-earnings ratio

The price-earnings ratio is what the name says — the price of a share divided by the earnings for the share. Most companies hang out in the range 10—17, indicating slow trends in profitability or general stability. Higher values mean a company is overvalued or a significant jump in profits is expected, lower values mean the opposite.

Microsoft's P/E ratio is 14.5. Google's is 21.7. Samsung's is 10.8. Apple's is 12.4. Facebook's is 27.5.

So probably all that's happening is that the expectation of no further big iPad-style new products is being priced in. There's no reason to expect an ongoing dramatic fall at present.

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IT Angle

Well..

Reggie Middleton of BoomBustBlog has been calling Apple for at least a year (while Steve Jobs was still alive).

And does a good job of explaining why Apple's share price is falling and will continue to fall..

I find that reading investors & analysts blogs more helpful in understanding why a share price is falling that on a technology site... just saying!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well..

So he was wrong 90% of the time then as the Apple share price was going up and up and yes up.

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FAIL

Very poor analysis.

Apple shares peaked in late September and have been on the way down since, baring some volatility on the way.

If that had anything to do with the company's performance then why does the plot for Google shares have pretty much the same shape??

Indeed, even the gold spot price has been on the wane since then.

There is a reason…

All these asset classes are "safe haven" instruments and with the financials in doubt since 2008 thanks to the crisis and now sovereigns in crisis thanks to the financials these "blue chip asset parks" have been more important than ever.

So why the big sell-off now you may ask?

Something wicked this way comes.

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Mushroom

Re: Very poor analysis.

"Apple shares peaked in late September and have been on the way down since, baring some volatility on the way.

If that had anything to do with the company's performance.."

In this case its to do with business model.

"then why does the plot for Google shares have pretty much the same shape??"

Its a Bear Market, lots of things are going to 'look' the same, however a bit of a differece between a 2% drop & a 7%

"Indeed, even the gold spot price has been on the wane since then."

Yeah you may want to speak to the lads over at GATA about that one.

"There is a reason…"

Quantitative Easing or QE? - the massive amount of tax payer backed money lent to gamblers er.. sorry banks at 0% interest so they could go out and buy buy buy with no risk to themselfs to help pump up the stock markets of the world while at the same time cause inflation.

"All these asset classes are "safe haven" instruments and with the financials in doubt since 2008 thanks to the crisis and now sovereigns in crisis thanks to the financials these "blue chip asset parks" have been more important than ever."

When has any stock ever been refered to as a Safe Haven?

Safe Haven are normally Gold & other precious metals, and the Guilts & Bonds of nations who generally have sound money management (Switzerland, US etc [you at the back stop laughing]), And the system being what it is these Bond markets are now at historic highs, shouldnt be long till we start to see some of these babies pop.

"So why the big sell-off now you may ask?"

Well turn downs after QE is frankly common, it wont be long till one or more governments decide they need to do something to 'help the markets'

"Something wicked this way comes."

More QE, more Inflation.. rejoice peasants the end is nigh!

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Anonymous Coward

Only a matter of time

Guess investors have found out about laughable 'upgrades' planned for the 5s. The 5 is already a generation behind it's Android and Windows competitors and the Q1 2013 batch of Android phones will hit Apple's dwindling market share hard.

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How much to do with return on investment

If Apple never pay out much in dividends, unless you sell your stock when its up you will not make quite the huge amount of boodle (apologies - been reading Raffles) as if you had put the money elsewhere.

So if you want to get your money out to put it elsewhere you sell it but the buyer thinks its not worth that much to them for the same reason so they give you a lower price.

Isn't that how market works?

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Anonymous Coward

If you want a company poised for massive growth

look no further than Stardock, makers of Start8.

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Holmes

Re: If you want a company poised for massive growth

They should make the most hay they can until Win8 SP1.

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Re: If you want a company poised for massive growth

>They should make the most hay they can until Win8 SP1.

Don't you mean SP2 - remember XP was pretty much a waste of space until SP2.

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Apple losing its innovative edge?

"The absence of any other big hitter devices on the horizon - a new Apple TV still seems far off - reinforces the view that Apple may be losing its innovative edge in the Tim Cook era."

But when has Apple ever pre-announced a major new product launch? So there will be nothing on the horizon, you will just have to wait until Apple decide the time is right for them to release their next market defining gadget to the market. Unfortunately many investors (and fans) are impatient and have unrealistic expectations about what can be achieved. It will only be in 5+ years that we will be able to make any judgement on whether Tim Cook managed to retain and foster Apple's creativity or allowed it to wither.

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