Re: Grok

I wouldn't bother, it was a bit suspect back in the hippy days when all that free love was going to save the world. And it's worse now

The only reason it's worse now is that everyone immediately sees the whole Christian angle as being incredibly trite. Just like we wouldn't read The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe without seeing the same pattern.It doesn't mean they're bad stories in themselves, though.

Another thing that commenters seem to have missed is that 'grok' is really a multi-purpose word, similar to "smurf", and, eh, "fuck".

Don't know exactly where I was going with this, except to say that I'm glad I didn't see Smurfahontas in 3d.

Re: Grok @ My Alter Ego

Rough quote from Richard Feynman: "Anyone who thinks they understand quantum mechanics doesn't."

@Michael Dunn (was: Re: ...weird command-line people? @ Fatman)

That's "hoist *by* your own petard" ... Or "hoise by", if you want to be archaic & petulant. Pet peeve. But then I'm a cantankerous old fart ...

Re: Grok

I always find the following mnemonic helpful:

Using the word "grok"

Makes you sound like a cock

Re: Grok [2]

Mind you. It's not half as irritating as using foo and fucking bar as placeholder names in code!

Re: Grok [2]

Agree. I use "wibble" and "blah", and usually a big hash-of-hashes called %stuff.

Five .. Linux apps you must install

How about this:

sed, awk, grep, vi(m), less

Bring it on ...

you grok skull and bones?

Quit acting like some idiotic secret society members..

Go ahead, by all means, do things the way you like.

But developing a big ego about command lines and getting all pedantic about your special lingo will seriously impede your ability to get laid.

Some people get 40 years old and still sound like they're compensating for high school pimples.

Gawd/ess, what a palaver ...

A couple things:

1) From email: No, I'm not the "Anonymous Coward" in this thread. Nice trolling dude/tte :-)

2) My daughter is the Senior Member of the Technical Staff for a Fortune 50. Girls can do anything that boys can in the working world, and vice versa. Trying to separate them stifles both.

3) "grok" is part of working English vernacular. Deal with it.

4) I use a GUI where appropriate. But I, me, personally, find the command line far faster & more functional than the "tools" listed in the original article. If you think that my finding the command line to be faster, easier method than said listed tools somehow makes me feel "elite" ... well, all I can think is that you are misinformed and/or ignorant of the reality of the situation, or you have a severe inferiority complex.

5) It's not "special lingo", it's English that is evolving as Humanity invents new shit. Or would you rather we stagnate? Because that's where you sound like you are coming from, "Anonymous Coward". (And before you say it, I wrote a new bit of code to do a new (command line/scripted) operation in my brewery this morning. Onwards & upwards, but no "aps" required. Or wanted.)

Re: Gawd/ess, what a palaver ...

That's five things not "a couple"

Lots of words are in the English language, just that some are less bodacious than others and will tell other people what sort of person you are if you're willing to use that word on a regular basis

@AC: 20:30 (was: Re: Gawd/ess, what a palaver ...)

So you are just trolling.

Re: Kate in a bottle

Thanks for the suggestion! I just installed it on a Linux box as well as one running FreeBSD. It looks pretty good so far. Mostly I prefer working in a terminal though. My favourite editor there is ne which is the first thing I install on any machine.

Re: Only 2: GParted and Libre Office

Why would an average computer user need emacs or vi? This article is for normal people using Linux, not developers.

@AndrueC Re: Only 2: GParted and Libre Office

"> This article is for normal people using Linux, not developers

Normal people would not need a syntax highlighting editor. Nor a partition editor."

Very true.

"It'd be nice if normal people didn't need a 'Package Editor' as well. Windows users survive without one although I'll grant that it can be a precarious survival sometimes."

They don't need a package editor and updates can be handled automatically if required in most distributions, but it is a convenient place to look for things you might like - not totally dissimilar to using an appstore/whathaveyou on other OSes, even if only for a first port of call. They generally make compatibility and dependencies a non-issue as well, which can sometimes cause problem when compiling from source or using external binary only packages.

Re: Only 2: GParted and Libre Office

Normal people don't use Linux

Re: Only 2: GParted and Libre Office

"And seriously, where is emacs?"

This was an article about applications you should install, not operating systems.

Normal people don't use Linux

I've just wasted several days trying different versions of Ubuntu and Mint on a new netbook.

I really would like an alternative to the Win7 that it came with, but I've just about concluded that Linux is too broken to use, same as the last time I tried to swap over. Pity that, but there you go :-(

Re: Only 2: GParted and Libre Office

"Why would an average computer user need emacs or vi ?"

They wouldn't need emacs or vi but then again a lot of Linux users are more technically inclined.

I listed my 'user' stuff earlier but in addition :

gcc - I write quite a lot of stuff in 'c'

tcl/tk - for quick GUI front-ends

VirtualBox

Now I'm not a IT professional, although I've been using and building computers since the Science of Cambridge Mk14 and written quite a lot of scientific programs and others for my own use.

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"Linux is too broken to use"

That's rather a broad comment given that lots of people use it all the time. I do every day - I don't use anything else. I obviously can't help with your problem esp. as as it's so vague. I do know that before I retired 200+ people used it in the company I worked for all the time and that was 8-9 years ago.

My wife, who had little in the way of computer education, used Windows at her school until she retired but then had no problem shifting to Linux.

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

I agree they've broken Ubuntu quite effectively. The underlying idea is sound but the implementation is bewildering. Xubuntu on the other hand has most of the things in most of the places you'd expect to find them, an advantage of using Gnome. I use xubuntu alongside Windows. Some of the video editing I do is a lot easier in xubuntu.

I also use xubuntu exclusively on my laptop, an old Vaio with a 1.2ghz processor and 1.5GB RAM - anything else on there runs like poo. XP ran like a dog. Vista even worse, win 7 - didn't even want to go there. But Xubuntu - rock solid and fast.

So - when you say Linux is too broken to use... which bit of it do you mean? I'd have agreed with you a few years ago (no I don't want to recompile the kernel to run on a bloody laptop, wtf???) but these days I find some hardware runs better in linux - that often won't run at all under windows. It takes a little getting used to, you do eventually need to learn to do a few bits on the command line (you don't have to but it does help) and as I say the Ubuntu Unity interface is just bizarre but there is plenty good out there :)

Re: Only 2: GParted and Libre Office

I used emacs for more than twenty years. Now I use kate for preference. No, it doesn't do all the things that emacs can do, but I can remember how to get it to do the things I want it to do better than I ever could with emacs.

Try it. You might like it.

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

If you can't use it when many other people do, is it Linux that's broken, or you?

@broken AC

Well, I use Linux (Ubuntu + Unity)on a netbook, and it's not broken. I also use it on a desktop, and an elderly parent uses on his (different) desktop. All working fine (esp. compared with my other half's Vista machine - you want broken?). So what, actually, is broken?

I do wonder why people write comment's like yours, then give no reason whatsoever as to why they have that opinion. I'd not have a problem if there was some accompanying evidence or reason which showed you had a problem, but just saying 'broken' doesn't really cut the mustard.

Re: Only 2: GParted and Libre Office

Well the package manager is what keeps Linux boxes clean. While a Linux user simply types "something" into the package manager, the Windows user will type "something free download" into Google. Guess who will get more malware?

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"I really would like an alternative to the Win7 that it came with, but I've just about concluded that Linux is too broken to use, same as the last time I tried to swap over. Pity that, but there you go :-("

Why you'd want to move away from Windows is a mystery, as you found out Linux really isn't ready. And even if it did work, none of you applications would run and you might have problems accessing your data due to Linux not being compatible. Heck, your printer might not even work due to Linux's lack of support.

You also have to consider where you will get support and how much extra that's going to cost you. Your netbook's maker won't be able to help and installing Linux might void your warranty, so you could be left seriously out of pocket.

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"It quite likely has new device variants requiring updated drivers which aren't available in existing distro releases."

From the horse's mouth - Linux doesn't support new hardware.

"Of course, if you're too much of a muppet to realise any of this, you should stick to buying pre-installed kit."

And insults.

With the above, is it any wonder no one takes Linux seriously?

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"as you found out Linux really isn't ready."

FUD absolute FUD

And if you want to try and don't want a real installation use VirtualBox

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"You also have to consider where you will get support and how much extra that's going to cost you. Your netbook's maker won't be able to help and installing Linux might void your warranty, so you could be left seriously out of pocket."

You sound seriously worried about an OS that has 1% desktop share - you should be !

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"You sound seriously worried about an OS that has 1% desktop share!"

Less than, and falling.

I'm more concerned that someone might find themselves £300+ out of pocket after breaking their computer by experimenting with Linux.

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"I'm more concerned that someone might find themselves £300+ out of pocket after breaking their computer by experimenting with Linux."

More FUD

The only thing they'd break would be Windows NOT £300 of computer in any case.

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"The only thing they'd break would be Windows NOT £300 of computer in any case."

That's quite true, of course, but may seem a moot point to a Windows user in those circumstances.

Re: Normal people don't use Linux

"That's quite true, of course, but may seem a moot point to a Windows user in those circumstances."

If what they want is a Windows installation why are they installing a Linux distro?

I'm bemused by people complaining that their brand new off-brand laptop lacks Linux driver support. How is it Linux's fault that certain companies don't provide drivers for their hardware? If anything the Linux community should be applauded because within a few months they'll have reverse engineered a working opensource driver for that hardware. What's more those drivers will be available for years to come.

Try installing Windows on said laptop in a few years when you've lost the install media for the proprietary drivers and the dodgy looking website for the small Chinese manufacturer that made your hardware no longer exists because the firm has gone bust / has been bought out.