Lawyer sues Microsoft rather than slot an SD card into his Surface
A lawyer is suing Microsoft for false advertising after his 32GB Surface slab turned up with 16GB of free space. Andrew Sokolowski claims that he quickly ran out of storage capacity on the tablet when he was loading it with music and documents because half the flash memory was filled by the operating system and pre-installed …
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MS should just post him a free sdcard
A 16GB one.
In fact they should bundle one too. Then everyone is happy.
In fact if I was MS I would post him a 16GB, and everyone else who bought one, a 32GB one, and then bundle it in future.
How much would it really take out of the profit?
Saying that I don't think he has a leg to stand on. I went through all this nonsense with my "64K" Commodore 64, which has around 38K if I remember rightly.
Re: MS should just post him a free sdcard
64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
Re: MS should just post him a free sdcard
But you could at least use all 64k if you knew what you were doing.
With the surface even the bootloader is locked down, so it's not like you can wipe it.
Slippery Slope
If they send him a free card, that would establish a precedence – Microsoft might find themselves on the hook for hundreds of free memory cards.
Re: MS should just post him a free sdcard
Or they could erase the OS for him.
Re: MS should just post him a free sdcard
> Saying that I don't think he has a leg to stand on. I went through all this nonsense with my "64K" Commodore 64, which has around 38K if I remember rightly.
Nope. Your "64K" Commodore 64 had the full 64K available to programs. What you are confused with is the "38911 BASIC BYTES FREE" message you got. Anything written in basic could only use 38911 bytes but other programs could use the full 64K.
Re: MS should just post him a free sdcard
> Nope. Your "64K" Commodore 64 had the full 64K available to programs. What you are confused with is the "38911 BASIC BYTES FREE" message you got. Anything written in basic could only use 38911 bytes but other programs could use the full 64K.
Nope, you are wrong. The 64K (65535) was the amount of addressable memory locations for an 8 bit CPU. Now those memory locations might be the ROM where the video memory was, kernel, I/O, etc. The amount of available to the user space was 38911 bytes.
Now, everyone shut and put Linux on your Surface. You'll get more free usable storage space that way and those pesky tiles will be gone.
Re: Rick Giles
> Nope, you are wrong. The 64K (65535) was the amount of addressable memory locations for an 8 bit CPU. Now those memory locations might be the ROM where the video memory was, kernel, I/O, etc. The amount of available to the user space was 38911 bytes.
Nope I am correct. The ROM for the basic interpreter I/O etc could be paged out to give you access to the full 64k of RAM. The reason that BASIC only had 38911 byte available was because it could not page itself out, other programs that were not written in basic could page out all of the ROMS and the I/O chips and access the full 64k of RAM.
Re: MS should just post him a free sdcard
> The 64K (65535)
And 0x0000 to 0xFFFF inclusive is 65536 bytes.
Re: MS should just post him a free sdcard
"Now, everyone shut and put Linux on your Surface. You'll get more free usable storage space that way and those pesky tiles will be gone."
Sadly only possible with the Pro version of the Surface (presumably), as the RT version is locked to pre-installed OS.
I knew it.
I knew Windows 8 was going to cause headaches if used on tablets. The bloat needed to run a fully loaded desktop has no business being installed on tablet. I'm sticking with Android.
Returning for a full refund I could imagine...
...but a law suit?
I don't see how his life was ruined (other than choosing to be a lawyer)...
Re: Returning for a full refund I could imagine...
Quite. My first thought was "well why didn't he just take / send it back then?
Oh, greed that's why.
Re: Returning for a full refund I could imagine...
"Oh, greed that's why."
More like stupidity. I can't imagine how a lawyer would pursue this. Being a lawyer he must know that if he wins, MS will have to pay for the damages it caused him. Which is what? The price of the tablet, shipping, or maybe the gas used to drive to the store? There's no way he would get more than a couple hundred $s. Which is far less than the money and time he spent on the lawsuit (which MS would not be liable for).
That of course assuming he would win, which he won't. MS doesn't say that the product has 16gb of free storage. Apple doesn't say that. Samsung doesn't.
This dude is just some jackass who wanted 15 mins of fame. Unfortunately for him, no respectable law firm will hire him after doing something so idiotic. So back to ambulance chasing and slip and falls.
Re: Returning for a full refund I could imagine...
"More like stupidity."
Lawyers aren't stupid. They just sometimes pretend they are so that they have grounds to sue.
"I can't imagine how a lawyer would pursue this. Being a lawyer he must know that if he wins, MS will have to pay for the damages it caused him. Which is what?"
I can. He's hoping to open a class action on it. That is: He wants lots of other people to jump on and sue for a slice of the pie, too. Then he will be the one representing the class action, and gets a shit-load of work out of it all.
Re: Hope his music is legit...
Presumably, "his" music consists of files copied to the device?
I trust he has the express written consent of every single rights holder for each and every file, otherwise he has made copies without consent.
Tut, Tut.
Stll, he'd probably be quids ( dollars) in even if he sued himself.
Gotta say it
A laywer got duped, didn't get all he was promised, and feels cheated.
About time, I say.
No, let's convince an IRS agent to buy one.
Re: Gotta say it
But what would an IRS agent want with a lawyer?
So is this
A piece of marketing by Apple or by Microsoft?
It can't be a serious suit, can it?
Wait...
...their tablet OS takes 16GB?
16GB?
<Examines hard drive>
My current install, including office suite, hypervisor, games, media players, logs, etc just touches 16GB.
What the bloody hell are MS putting on there?
Re: Wait...
$ df -mT
Filesystem Type 1M-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
rootfs rootfs 12107 5702 5790 50% /
Re: Wait...
I am writing this on my Surface RT device. I just took a quick look... Windows folder total size 8GB. Program Files dir is 800MB. So not sure where the rest of the claimant's space has gone... between his ears perchance?
@APJ - Re: Wait...
Awww! Surely you're trying to impress us as a Surface early adopter.
Re: "Here's an example of what the new 'internet economy' really looks like, in practice."
IIRC there is also a restore partition and another system partition that total up to about 15 gig on a new surface.
Re: Wait...
Unless he has the full Windows 8 version. Win 8 install is larger than Win RT install.
Re: Wait...
So how much space is free on a Windows Phone, say the Lumia 920, which doesn't have an SD slot?
That sounds like a deal breaker to me...
Re: Wait...
Pretty much the same as what you have on your desktop / laptop computer.
Re: Wait...
The "lightweight" RT is 8GB before applications?
*shakes head*
Re: "Here's an example of what the new 'internet economy' really looks like, in practice."
This is correct. I've just checked on mine and I've used 15.7GB of it which is more or less the base install (which includes Office) and a handful of apps.
Sorry but I don't agree with your point of view - we can all accept a few GB less space than is advertised for one reason or another - but HALF the space that is advertised is not acceptable. Personally - I don't see this as any different to the headline broadband speeds issue - tell the customer what they are getting - not what they aren't.
If this was me - I'd be willing to accept the loss of 5 - 8GB of the internal space.... but this makes me wonder - just how much internal space will be eaten when each update comes out.... You could probably expect that you will lose at least another 2GB over the next year of updates?
reading ability
You sir, fail.
I've no interest in buying a Surface, but with the minimum browsing I've down just to see what the fuss is about I was still able to * accidentally* come across the information that only 16GB is free for user storage on the 32GB model.
Sick of people how can't be bothered to learn what they're shelling out for complaining when a purchase arrives as advertised, but not as expected. The problem isn't the purchased item/
I have to agree with you here. Normal smartphones and tablets use a few gig, at most, for OS, bundled apps and any segregated application storage. This is the market we should be comparing with for the Surface, not the space taken by a full windows install on a PC. Even so, you can (just about) accept 20GB taken by the OS on a PC with 500GB+ storage.
I'd say they have gone over the line of what's reasonably expected for a tablet, and it should be made clearer.
Re: reading ability
> You sir, fail.
Sorry, the failure is yours.
The issue is far more nuanced than your comment suggests.
It is not unreasonable to expect that half of the storage capacity of a 32GB tablet should be taken up by the OS and some basic applications, especially when it is 16GB in this case.
My work development machine (on which I am typing this) with 64-bit Linux, LibreOffice, a full software development system and various graphical packages takes a full 6GB.
Quite how MS have managed to fill 16GB with their OS and apps beggars belief.
Re: reading ability
Correction:
I meant "It is not reasonable ...", obviously.
16Gigabytes!!!
And here was me getting stroppy a few years back when I had to expand my root partition from 4GiB to 8GiB to fit my Linun OS and all its app(lication)s on with room for temps, logs, etc.
Exactly. My laptop comes with a 750G hard drive and about 650G is free. My phone has 13G free out of 16. Half the space used up by the OS? Why isn't it on its own flash memory?
Re: reading ability
"64-bit Linux, LibreOffice, a full software development system and various graphical packages takes a full 6GB."
Ditto !
Re: reading ability
Out of interest:
How much user storage is available on a 32GB iPad? Or a 32GB Nexus 7?
In fact, there are 16GB models of those devices. How much user storage is available on those?
Microsoft is selling their tablet as "32GB". Consumers will not unreasonably compare the price with a "32GB" iPad, but in fact they should be comparing it against the 16GB iPad. I think it's reasonable to be aggrieved when you realise you have been conned, even if the remedy is just to spend an extra £10 on an SD card.
Technically-astute people will know to associate "Microsoft" with "gigabytes of bloatware", but should consumers know that?
Re: reading ability
"but should consumers know that?"
Yes. Just like consumers associate certain car makers with poor build quality or reliability, consumers should associate MS with what we know them for.
Re: reading ability
My 16gb iPad 2 has 13.8gb available... Seems reasonable to me?
Re: reading ability
"My 16gb iPad 2 has 13.8gb available"
That's the sort of figure I would expect. I believe my Atrix, advertised as 16GB, has about 12GB available. Similarly my cheap Android tab advertised as 8GB had 6GB available. A few GB is expected. 16GB is not.
Re: reading ability
We cannot have a market operating on a "caveat emptor" basis.
Yes, I know the OS will take some space. Yes, YOU know this, too. Sure, if I look for the information about space taken by OS, it is easy to find. BUT (and this is a big one)
We work with computers. It is in our job description to know this kind of thing. He is a lawyer. He is under no obligation to know this kind of information.
Even if the warning about the 16 GiB used was printed in small letters. It shouldn't be valid. This kind of thing should be made clear to the public - the public who doesn't know better. They could, even, use 26 GiB of the 28.9 GiB total. They could, if they sold the bloody thing with "28.9 GiB. 26GiB used by OS", or "32GiB - 4 GiB available to user".
No one should be expected to cut through 385 lines of tech speak, to find this buried in the middle.
SamSung Galay Tab 2.0 7" model suffers from this same type of issue - the 8GB model has around 4.3 GB free out of the box.
Good luck with that lawsuit. They advertise the raw hardware specs like every hardware manufacturer ever. He's going to need to sue pretty much every hardware manufacturer on the planet, and he's still going to lose. Hopefully the judge smacks the shit out of him and force him to pay MS's bills for being such an idiot.
The lawyer can also delete all the apps and operating system to get the extra space he needs :D
Costs
A Lawyer huh? I wonder which firm is paying his costs...
Re: Costs
There's no firm paying his fees. He's a small time lawyer looking to game the system & make a few bucks. If it does become a class action issue he'll be the one raking in the fees and fucking his clients.
It is perfectly OK for lawyers (who don't even write the briefs, that's the paralegals) to screw their customers but it is not OK for the lawyers to get screwed (confused/stupid in this case).
I am not even going to dignify this story with a comment... D'OH
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