Insult to her culture...
... and if you disobey you get what ... a horse's head in your bed?
BTW there is a difference between good salt and bad salt. Try a double blind test between standard table salt and something like Maldon flaked sea salt.
Debenhams cafes ban outré terms like 'espresso' and 'cappuccino'
The words "espresso" and "cappuccino" are too confusing for customers, says high-street retailer Debenhams. The department store chain will instead introduce moron-friendly descriptions, such as "frothy coffee", in its 160 cafes. Out go several descriptions it deems too "fancy" - even "tall" and "grande" have been slung out, …
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Friday 2nd November 2012 13:57 GMT daldred
Re: Sir
"The fancy name for black coffee isn't black coffee, it's an Americano. Which isn't just black coffee (filter) because it's made with espresso."
I suspect I'm not the only one who gets really really pissed off by repeatedly having to answer the question 'do you want milk in it' when I've asked for an Americano.
Which is rather than point here, isn't it? The Italian / pseudo-Italian terms are misused and misunderstood (even by those making the coffees) Perhaps Debenhams are right: let's have some plain coffees.
I just wish I could be confident that they'd be made well - as well as they are in Rome rather than as well as they are in Starbucks....
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Monday 5th November 2012 09:49 GMT Psyx
"Yeah, god, asking if somewhere has wifi is entirely unacceptable, those horrible wankers.
*facepalm*"
It was the *combination* of requests that painted the character-picture, as any fewlkno.
Asking for a beer isn't wanky. Asking for a beer served with a squeeze of lime in a specific shaped glass, with ice is wanky.
Though come to think of it: Asking for wi-fi *is* a bit lame, really. It infers that you can't spend two seconds looking at your device and noticing that they do, or reading one of the "we have free wi-fi" signs.
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Monday 5th November 2012 12:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Though come to think of it: Asking for wi-fi *is* a bit lame, really. It infers that you can't spend two seconds looking at your device and noticing that they do, or reading one of the "we have free wi-fi" signs."
Clearly you live up a stick in a field, or somesuch. In a built-up area, there is often no obvious way to tell if any of the multiple networks that you can see from a tiny coffee shop is actually theirs. If none of them are open, even if they do have a sign, you need to find out which network belongs to them, and what the credentials are.
Still, don't let reality interfere, eh? I am sure that some strange male pride means you'd rather use rainbow tables than actually ask.
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Friday 2nd November 2012 12:42 GMT Cameron Colley
Sounds fair enough to me.
I hate Starosta coffee places where you have to piss around translating faux-italian names just to order a simple coffee. What's wrong with "small, medium, large" or, if they must, "regular, large, extra"?
I've not problem ordering foodstuffs and drinks in other languages when in that country or ordering a dish from there but the made-up bollocks associated with coffee is a language I can't be arsed to learn.
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Friday 2nd November 2012 13:54 GMT James Micallef
Re: Sounds fair enough to me.
"I hate Starosta coffee places where you have to piss around translating faux-italian names just to order a simple coffee"
>>
"I hate these fancy pubs where you have to piss around knowing exactly what the difference is between an 'Ale', 'Lager', 'Amber', 'Wheat'... why can't they just get me a beer?"
For people who are happy with "just a coffee", any coffee will do, so if you^'re not arsed to learn, just order yourself a regular coffee. For people who DO know the difference, it's not just the size. "Espresso" is not a small shot of filter coffee, it's brewed with steam pressurization and has a different taste. etc etc
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Friday 2nd November 2012 14:37 GMT Psyx
Re: Sounds fair enough to me.
"For people who are happy with "just a coffee", any coffee will do, so if you^'re not arsed to learn, just order yourself a regular coffee."
Except that you're then met with an incredulous look from some minimum-wage prick with a chip on their shoulder, who then patronises you along the lines of "I *think* you mean an Americano" and tuts of derision from a queue of faux coffee snobs. Because these places seem incapable of 'just' giving me a cup of 'normal' coffee (and I've already compromised, because what I *actually* want is a drinkable a cup of tea, but I know from experience that there's fuck all chance of getting one in a coffee shop).
For the record, what I really *want* if I'm going in a coffee shop and paying £3 for a coffee is a Turkish coffee. But for all the pretentiousness, none of them actually serve that stuff.
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Friday 2nd November 2012 15:29 GMT Cameron Colley
@James Micallef
But if you ask for "a black coffee" they flog you an "americano" which isn't a "normal black coffee" it's an espresso with water added. If you want a "normal" cup of coffee as I grew up with you have to ask for a filter coffee.
I'll admit if you ask for "a beer", in the UK at least, you may be asked to be more specific but if you ask for a lager or a bitter or a white or red wine there's usually a "house" one. They don't then ask you how many shots you want in it or whether you want sprinkles (OK, so i made up the sprinkles).
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Saturday 3rd November 2012 11:18 GMT Red Bren
Re: Sounds fair enough to me.
"I hate these fancy pubs where you have to piss around knowing exactly what the difference is between an 'Ale', 'Lager', 'Amber', 'Wheat'... why can't they just get me a beer?"
First time I tried order, "A pint of beer, please." I was promptly asked for proof of age, which I obviously didn't have so my group were asked to leave. I learned very quickly the differences between bitter, mild, lager, etc and had no trouble getting served the following week, by the same barman.
Moral of the story, if it matters to you, you'll learn it.
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Friday 2nd November 2012 13:58 GMT Rampant Spaniel
Re: Sounds fair enough to me.
I love coffee, but it shouldn't take more that 4 words to describe the coffee. It is getting seriously mental stateside, it takes people 30-45 seconds to describe their order. Yes fauxtalian size names is a little silly as well. Just because the style of coffee is derived loosely from an italian concept doesn't mean every other word on the menu needs to be in italian. We use Hawaiian where we can here, and yes that means entire sentences, but ffs it's not like you are actually ordering in italian, just stealing a few words to justify it costing 5 bucks.
I also concur wholeheartedly with the above sentiment regarding the quality of the coffee. It is rarely better than instant (which is fine in the same way a Hollands steak pie is fine, but it isn't a fillet) and frequently abysmal, despite costing a small fortune. Personally I found carrying a small flask of coffee made from local beans cheaper and nicer.
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Friday 2nd November 2012 14:27 GMT Gnomalarta
Re: Sounds fair enough to me.
"I hate Starosta coffee places where you have to piss around translating faux-italian names just to order a simple coffee. "
Simple solution: use a local independent. Here in the near of Reading we have plenty and they tend to pay their taxes. We even have one called Picnic right next to Starbucks - very friendly and not full of trendy dorks showing off their Apple devices.
The be fair Costa does pay tax on it's profits.
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Saturday 3rd November 2012 03:15 GMT Rampant Spaniel
Re: Sounds fair enough to me.
Not quite that far Nick :) It just seems to have developed into a huge pain in the ass to order a coffee. If I walk into a cafe and in Italy, approach the bar, and say "un caffe per favore", I get a cup of espresso (at least in the mornings, like the French what you get will sometimes vary across the day which is only right!). I say "grazie", add sugar and go pay. Its that simple. I walk into a starfooks and I have to give a shedload of parameters, all in a mix of Italian and English. I would have more respect for them if you actually had to order entirely in Italian. Sure the coffees should have their correct names but thats where it needs to stop. I am not impressed with marketing bastardising a foreign language to make themselves seem more genuine when frankly they couldn't be farther from the real experience if they served ground beef in the cups. The staff aren't really trained so much as churned out and they rarely get decent raw materials, let alone have well maintained clean equipment. French and Italian cafes are frequented by a huge number of people on their way to work or on their lunch break. As such ordering is rapid. Starfooks et al is frequented mostly by soccer moms and people wanting the wifi, in general people not in a huge rush and who want 'an experience', so it is set up to make them think they are getting an authentic Italian experience. It really comes nowhere close to actually going into a cafe that trades on its reputation for quality and speed. Given that only 10% of Americans have passports and only a fraction of those will have been to France or Italy, I suspect you could flog them snowcones and they wouldn't know the difference (Hartlepool monkey style).
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Friday 2nd November 2012 12:42 GMT oddie
rantomatic
actually, while I don't mind ordering a cappuchino or an espresso, I object to having to specify my size of beverage in italian... if starbucks or whoever wants to call it a tall venti whatever then fine, but if they try to make me use italian just because they want to add that ambience of sipping italian coffee in an american franchise in britain then I usually reply to them in norwegian* since that is MY native language, and after all, its all about the fucking ambiance.
Actually, like any other person who has been in the uk for a while the entire scenario after 'I reply' actually only plays out in my head and what actually comes out of my mouth is 'thats fine'.
I'll still order my bloody fucking medium americano next time as well though.
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Friday 2nd November 2012 13:54 GMT oddie
Re: rantomatic
sometimes I also dream that after fucking with me over the namingconvention of the size of my beverage, the next person behind me in the queue specifies their entire order in italian.. obv this scenario only works if the fucker-ista behind the counter isn't italian too....
I think maybe I need to try decaff for a bit...
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Friday 2nd November 2012 13:56 GMT James Micallef
Re: rantomatic
What pisses me off about Starbucks is that they don't even use real Italian terminology for coffee, they make up their own. All the Italian terms are well-understood by every barista in every bar in Italy. Only a 'Starbuckee' can understand Starbuck-speak for coffee ordering.
'Venti' literally means 20 because in Starbucks that's a 20-oz serving. No Italian in their right mind will EVER order a bucket of coffee. On the other hand, why do they use 'tall'? It's translating the italian 'lungo' to mean 'long' or 'large', but using it to mean something completely different.
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Friday 2nd November 2012 15:46 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: "lungo"
Yes. Lungo does not specify the size, it specifies that the pressurised steam passes quickly through the coffee when brewing. It produces a distinct flavour that would be less strong than a typical espresso and also a 'longer' drink.
It is the opposite to Ristretto (think 'restrictive').
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Friday 2nd November 2012 12:49 GMT wowfood
Gah
I used to work in a debenhams cafe. And as stupid as this may sound... It's actually pretty accurate.
I cannot count the number of times I've had a customer order an espresso and then refuse to pay because "it's tiny" well duh it's an espresso, it's a shot of concentrated coffee.
Or of course the people who would order a latte / cappuccino and then complain because it's mostly milk. I swear the customers were idiots. I mean they must be look at the prices they're paying. What was it, £6.95 for pie and chips when I left. Guess what? That pie came from a freezer, and unless you got one of the first ones cooked before lunch, it was zapped in the microwave and then put under a grill quickly to brown up the top... I'm not even joking here, they even microwaved bacon on occasion.
What's worse though, is that the store was getting ripped off as much as the customer. I had to write up the wastage and put it on our system to work out profit loss etc. Those pies we were charging custoemrs £6.95 for, we were paying £3.95 for them EACH. i swear somebody at the upper end of management was getting back handers off of brakes.
We even worked out it was cheaper for us to deliberately under order on things like milk / eggs / chips / veg (the bits we can easily swap out for alternatives) and then buy them from asda, and the stuff we'd get from asda was higher quality.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
