You'll be on a list 3 hrs after you start downloading from pirates - study
File sharers who download torrents from services such as The Pirate Bay can expect to find their IP address logged by copyright enforcers within three hours, according to a new study by computer scientists. Researchers at the UK's University of Birmingham reached the finding at the end of a two-year study into how organisations …
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What do you expect from BitTorrent? It's the equivalent of running around the streets shouting "I've got some parts of a stolen item".
"It's the equivalent of running around the streets shouting "I've got some parts of a stolen item"."
He would be arrested only by an idiot cop.
Posting as an AC because you're ashamed of your statement. There are many many things on BitTorrent that are not "stolen". Back under your bridge troll
no...
It's like running around town saying you have some parts you copied from your neighbors ford Escort (with his permission) and used to build your own!
Now I'm off to make my own petrol and get carted off to the slammer for that too... ;)
Re: no...
I'm sure the Ford Motor Company would have something to say about you copying their patented parts and trade dress.
Not hard to get around...
"The monitors we detected don't actually collect any parts of the file from the alleged uploader, therefore the evidence of illegal file sharing collected by monitors may not stand up in court,"
Encrypt your storage and then tell them, (i was just downloading legal torrents, distributions of linux and what not)
If they ask you for a password to your storage say "no its got all my personal information in their, like homemade porno's, some sexy pics of my wife and a load of my passwords in files. im not letting you see that.." or "shit i forgot it..."
Re: Not hard to get around...
I seem to recall that people have been prosecuted for not decrypting their data on request.
Re: Not hard to get around...
Or, you know, you could NOT steal the stuff. If it gets to the point you're planning how to get off on a technicality then it's pretty clear you're not torrenting in defence of freedom, but just a freeloader.
Re: Not hard to get around...
It is actually illegal in some jurisdictions (UK included) to not hand over your password when asked nicely by the authorities. That also includes the "crime" of "forgetting" your password. 1984 indeed.
Re: Not hard to get around...
If they ask you for a password to your storage say "no its got all my personal information in their, like homemade porno's, some sexy pics of my wife and a load of my passwords in files. im not letting you see that.." or "shit i forgot it..."
One word: RIPA. Two years in chokey for you.
"Or, you know, you could NOT steal the stuff"
I pay for two cable/satellite subscriptions and my TV licence. Despite paying for all that, it's often more convenient to torrent than to watch on TV.
Case in point: cycling coverage on Eurosport. My cable STB doesn't support jumping around in a recording, so if I only want to watch the last 10 minutes of a flat sprint stage I have to FFWD on-screen through four hours of coverage. And there's no resume so if someone sits on the remote I have to do it all over again from the beginning.
...and don't get me started on those unskippable "you wouldn't steal a car" warnings on DVDs.
I just want to watch the content I pay for on whatever device I choose without being insulted.
Re: "Or, you know, you could NOT steal the stuff"
>>..and don't get me started on those unskippable "you wouldn't steal a car" warnings on DVDs.
AFAIK if you play a DVD with VLC then nine out of ten times it will skip straight to the start menu.
Re: Not hard to get around...
Only if the request comes from the police or via a court order, not in a civil matter.
Re: Not hard to get around...
@JDX - "you could NOT steal the stuff."
It's not stealing, it's license infringement. But your point still stands - don't do the crime unless you can do the time or pay the fine.
Re: Not hard to get around...
I'm studying pseudo random number generation...
Re: Not hard to get around...
It might be better to say that it has correspondence with your solicitor. They are not allowed to see that.
Re: "Or, you know, you could NOT steal the stuff"
> "you wouldn't steal a car"
or a policeman's helmet...
Re: Not hard to get around...
They are. The Law Lords (as were) ruled that privileged communication does fall under RIPA. There was a court case in Northern Ireland a few years back.
I've won a few pints on that one.
Re: Not hard to get around...
The lines between civil and criminal seem to be rather moot these days, when Big Content can buy crimes and order alw enforcement a la carte.
Re: Not hard to get around...
What would actually happen:
http://xkcd.com/538/
Re: Not hard to get around...
The only reason to believe that anything has (or is) being stolen is that you've fallen for the crap put out by companies.
Re: Not hard to get around...
Cryptography Plausible Deniability (ripped from Wikipedia...)
"In cryptography, deniable encryption may be used to describe steganographic techniques, where the very existence of an encrypted file or message is deniable in the sense that an adversary cannot prove that an encrypted message exists. In this case the system is said to be Fully Undetectable, FUD.
Some systems take this further, such as MaruTukku, FreeOTFE and (to a much lesser extent) TrueCrypt which nest encrypted data. The owner of the encrypted data may reveal one or more keys to decrypt certain information from it, and then deny that more keys exist, a statement which cannot be disproven without knowledge of all encryption keys involved. The existence of "hidden" data within the overtly encrypted data is then deniable in the sense that it cannot be proven to exist."
Re: Not hard to get around...
@ABee - Nice in theory, does not work in practice unless further measures are also taken. Various log files and "Most recently used" lists could easily leave traces of secret volumes.
"We see that one of you most recent documents was 'E:\Plans\Evil\TakeOverTheWorld.docx'; where is that files now?"
Re: "Or, you know, you could NOT steal the stuff"
You wouldn't steal a handbag.
You wouldn't steal a car.
You wouldn't steal a baby.
You wouldn't shoot a policeman. And then steal his helmet.
You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet. And then send it to the policeman's grieving widow. And then steal it again!
Downloading films is stealing. If you do it, you will face the consequences.
Re: Not hard to get around...
This is devils advocate, but I'd be intrigued to know if you say, kept a password vault or used a system like supergenpass to create your encryption keys, which had a very strong, super long password of the impossible to memorise sort that you had written down, in only one place and upon attempted say, arrest , you ate, would providing a copper a turd be a legitimate compliance with RIPA? You never knew it, so couldn't recall it but there is now no written version of it, but you have in fact provided the remnants.
Though, I guess it's arguable that it's probably destroying evidence. Are passwords evidence though? As far as I was aware, they weren't.
Re: Not hard to get around...
quote: "You never knew it, so couldn't recall it but there is now no written version of it, but you have in fact provided the remnants."
Unfortunately, AFAIK the wording of RIPA makes it an offense to not provide the password when requested. Not knowing the password is not a defense against this crime, as the crime is "failing to provide", not "knowing and not providing".
So your employer could copy a TruCrypt volume to your company laptop via Group Policy, call in the plod claiming they think you're browsing kiddie porn and you are now liable to life imprisonment without parole, as you cannot provide the password to the volume (that they suspect contains kiddie porn). Yes, I know it is only 2 years, however each subsequent request for the password is a new instance of criminality if you fail to provide.
If I have misinterpreted the actual wording of RIPA and you are only liable for 2 years total for failing to provide, please let me know. I am assuming that "we asked in 2012, you failed to provide, 2 years" is a different offense to the subsequent "we asked in 2014, you failed to provide, 2 years" (and then 2016, 2018, ad nauseum).
Re: Not hard to get around...
ISTR there is a defence to a password request, if you can demonstrate good reason why you can't provide the key - after all, your emails are probably encrypted by your employer in their exchange database. *You* wouldn't be expected to know they key. This is why the smart alecs who send "Oh, send Jack Straw an encrypted email and get him locked up for not knowing the password" were wrong.
Regarding repeated jailing for the "same" offence ... well Scotland managed to keep the naked rambler locked up for over a year, on repeated "contempt of court" charges. So I imagine, yes, if you get 2 years, and then come out of jail and refuse to hand the password over, it'll be 2 more years for you. Pour encourage les autres and all that.
The REAL scandal about RIPA (as previously highlighted) is that it gives the authorities access to EVERYTHING, including what used to be privileged. Under RIPA, any correspondence between you, your lawyer, your MP, your doctor, is completely fair game.
Re: Not hard to get around...
TrueCrypt hidden volume...
Re: Not hard to get around...
I prefer to make the password something epic. "G0FuckYourself" or "Fuck0ffY0uFuck1ngWank3r" - that way when they ask you can give them the answer in such a deadpan way that they'll never actually TRY what you said. So when they take you to court, there is your defense.
Re: "illegal not to hand over your password"
Is that not actually violating laws (in civilized countries) saying you cannot be forced to incriminate yourself?
(Assuming you *did* do naughty things which at this point is not proven either.)
Re: "illegal not to hand over your password"
In that country we all like to hold up as a bastion of freedom, the United States.
ISTR that there was a case where the defendant argued that, but he had already incriminated himself by *having the dodgy stuff showing* for the guard to see.
Re: Not hard to get around...
You are quite right but if you use something like Truecrypt, you can have two levels of protection. You hand over the password to one but not the other. It is not possible to prove that there is a second encrypted container so you cannot be done for not revealing the password because no-one will know or even have reason to believe it's there.
It's all a lot of faffing about for very little risk though. BitTorrent has always published the IP addresses of all the peers and that information is there for all to see. If it were possible/practical to use this data (which, don't forget, is just a list of IP addresses that are not personally identifiable without access to ISP records and that requires a court order) to stop piracy, the rights holders would have done so long ago.
There is only one solution to the issue of piracy and there only ever will be one solution. Offer a good service at a fair price and the public will beat a path to your door. It has worked for Apple.
Options
Well, I don't download music anymore - but the speed you could grab a full album can be less than 30 minutes, so grab it and stop sharing immediately.
US TV shows, on the other hand...
Re: Options
has anyone ever been targeted for downloading/sharing TV yet?
I bet it would be an awkward case in the uk...
Lawyer: You downloaded Dr Who via bit torrent, pay us money!
p2p user: I paid my TV License that produces the show and allows me to watch UK TV, I simply time-shifted using a p2p cloud reception device.
Re: has anyone ever been targeted for downloading/sharing TV yet?
should be a crime for watching some US tv shows, never mind inflicting it on others ...
Re: has anyone ever been targeted for downloading/sharing TV yet?
Breaking Bad.
'Nuff said.
Re: Wait... isn't TPB blocked by UK ISPs?
I just checked and it is not blocked by my UK ISP. I don't think it's wise to tell you their name.
Having said that I only torrent legal stuff, I don't buy DVDs but borrow them from friends or the library. I don't feel the need to watch the latest movie, this stuff is not going to disappear anytime soon. They are still screening the original 1960s Flintstones FFS.
Re: Wait... isn't TPB blocked by UK ISPs?
Borrowing DVDs from friends is killing Hollywood and still illegal AFAIK.
Re: Wait... isn't TPB blocked by UK ISPs?
- Conceal My Donkey
- Whole bunch of mirrors/alternate addresses
- VPS in Iceland *cough* Erm, sorry officer?
Re: Wait... isn't TPB blocked by UK ISPs?
Borrowing DVDs is in no way a crime provided it is not done for recompense. This is made quite clear in the terms and conditions on commercially purchased DVDs and why those terms and conditions are different for rental shop copies.
Whether it is killing Hollywood, I don't know, but it definitely is not illegal.
For the record..
Paris icon because I was playing dumb, not because I am. *SADFACE*.
Sometimes my network is slow and things go quicker when I click the Opera Turbo button.
You're missing the point slightly
They're not trying to catch people or prove who's downloaded what, all they want is to release this report and let fear do the rest.
They don't have to resort to lawyers or to threaten individuals with legal action while the BBC are obediently reporting verbatim everything F@CT say to them.
Re: You're missing the point slightly
Isn't iPlayer still a torrent-based application?
Re: You're missing the point slightly
And a lot of game update engines use bittorrent under the hood to download their patches (World of Warcraft is one).
The bittorrent protocol itself is a very good way to distribute large popular files quickly, safely and without using too much of your own bandwidth.
It's not very good at hiding who is downloading a file, and this makes it no good for piracy.
But it's use for piracy has made the name 'torrent' synonymous with pirate, so the legitimate users have to hide the use of the protocol so they don't get associated with piracy.
Re: You're missing the point slightly
No, it's one to one. Used to be when it started, but I think the BBC ramped up their CDN system into a few ISP's
Curious
A few years ago NTL Luton (for example) had exactly the same IP Address...i wonder how this would stand up in court.
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