Video shows armed assault on Kim Dotcom family home

Last I heard, a year after shooting Mr Duggan, we're still waiting for the officers involved to deign to answer a few questions about it from the IPCC. If they're not too busy, and happen to feel like it, naturally. No rush or anything... I mean it only caused a riot. Something tells me if a member of the public had shot and killed a police officer, he'd have been questioned and charged somewhat speedier than one year later...

Police are out of control

I don't think you want to limit this to armed police. The 'Brazillian fellow' was from my point of view, a failure of intelligence and correct briefing. The person who actually killed him believed he was up against a suicide bomber and under those circumstances, you have few choices and no real chance to be nice and suggests a surrender. If they're willing to die anyway, they're not likely to come quietly. Killing them quickly is generally (and especially in an underground train) the only solution (just hope they don't have a dead man on the detonator). Duggan is a bit different, but again, the police seem to have been briefed wrongly and were under a false impression of what they were likely to meet.

A better example would be the chap shot dead whilst naked and in his bedroom in Hastings. A naked bloke coming at you with nothing in his hands is hardly likely to be a risk to life and limb. I've watched several documentaries on armed police and have never failed to be appalled by their lack of skills and apparent lack of sense. I've also spoken to a lot of ex-forces personnel who now work for the police and to a man, they consider the armed squads appalling in every way. Basically, there's a fair number of very gung ho people getting into them (and the police in general) and they are giving the police a very bad name.

Another example is the copper who killed Ian Tomlinson. How he got found not guilty I'll never know. He even admitted in court that he shouldn't have pushed/hit him!! Then, his past comes out. A list of complaints and abuse as long as your arm and yet he's still in the police!! You couldn't make it up.

Until someone starts getting the right people into the police and getting the wrong people out, this is going to continue. Unfortunately, there seems no interest in doing this and the various police federations/unions etc. all refuse to believe there is a single bad copper and will defend anyone.

I've got no problem with the police making mistakes, provided someone is held to account and the action of the individual was reasonable given what they knew and the circumstances etc. We're all human and make mistakes, it's just that some are potentially more terminal. However, between the courts and the police/IPCC themselves, we seem completely unwilling to hold anyone to account. The guy who killed Ian Tomlinson was guilty as sin. The guy who killed the Brazillian was probably not given the briefing and circumstances, but the person running the operation (Cressida Dick) and the intelligence people were guilty of incompetence. The intelligence forces didn't even properly identify the guy!!

You seem to be arguing that, since Humberside Police don't shoot down 150+ people annually, all is fine, but you don't seem to really understand the statistics you quote, particularly in response to what I actually said.

The operative word was 'control' - do you think these guys are under anyone's effective control? I don't. They seem to be making up their own rules and are completely unaccountable. I didn't say they were getting their weapons out & arbitrarily shooting innocent people down regularly, though the number of cases when they do do that is rather frightening. A far better Google would be how often are the shootings they're involved in appropriate and perhaps more relevantly, how often are they called to account when they're not?. Never, seems to be the answer.

By any clear eyed measure, we can say with confidence that Terrorists and criminals cannot hope to achieve their ultimate aims, so long as we decide to oppose them. They can have the odd success, but the only people who can seriously effect our democracy & freedoms, threadbare as they are in The UK and in the West Generally, are our own Governments and their agents. You may not fear this is what they're doing at the moment, but I do.

When the pr*cks with the guns are not under effective control, are making up their own rules and are completely unaccountable, then you know you're in real trouble as a society. Recently, we saw UK armed Police on TV posing with their weapons, acting like children, delighted with the sheer excitement of it all. I don't trust them. Is it OK with you if someone you love is assassinated by these armed children and don't choose to answer for it? It's not OK with me.

Ewe, not bitch.

Doubt that NZ is a bitch to Israel. New Zealand was seen as a soft spot to obtain passports fraudulently, until Israel got caught. Bit of a fracas, really.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/16/israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel%E2%80%93New_Zealand_passport_scandal

Re: S.T.G raid

@Psyx.

Yes, if you were wandering around slowly on your own. But, they had 15-20 minimum looking (supposedly) very hard. They also had plans of the house, including the location of the panic room. Wouldn't that be the first place you'd look?

Anyway, their dynamic approach was so aimed at surprise that they landed a helicopter on the front drive!! That'll only be detectable from a fair distance and give more than enough time to destroy/hide anything required. Their entry was anything but dynamic as evidenced by the fact they didn't know where he was (a dynamic attack to render the occupants hardless should start with knowing where they are) and had had enough time to get to a panic room. If the SAS had attacked the Iranian embassy in this manner, everyone inside would have been slaughtered. They would have landed in helicopters on the road in front, before sauntering up to the doors and windows and blowing them out, before casually strolling inside to find a hail of gunfire and loads of dead hostages.

Dynamic my a**e.

Re: Hameric-uh!

"Rather surprised the police didn't 'find him' swinging from a tree in the back yard. Crowd of cheering rednecks around him."

Don't you mean cheering corporate suits?