UK judge hands Samsung win for being 'not as cool' as iPad
A UK judge has handed Samsung a victory in its court battle with Apple over design similarities between its Galaxy Tab line and the Cupertinian iPad – but for a reason sure to rankle the Korean manufacturer's design department. Speaking of Samsung's fondleslabs, UK High Court Judge Colin Birss ruled, "They do not have the same …
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Re: In the 80's
For future reference for further playground arguments;
C64 > ZX Spectrum
Amiga > Atari ST
Android > iOS
Depeche Mode > Human League
Chocolate Concrete > Spotted Dick
Regular Custard > Pink Custard
Tiswas > Anything Noel Edmunds EVER does
@Jyve
You did most of those wrong on purpose, right?
....also WTF is 'Chocolate Concrete'? we didn't have that in 80s - I'd Google it, but last time I did that from here it was to find out what 'goatse' was and I'm not falling for that again.
Re: @Jyve
Flour, sugar, chocolate powder, margarine.
mixed up, chucked on a baking tray, and left to slightly overburn/overcook. It was rock hard solid slices for pudding, often served with the aforementioned pink custard (yeuch).
As kids, we'd bend cutlery trying to cut the stuff, and as were were all young 'uns at the time, I recall a few kids losing teeth (that were wobbly anyway) to it.
I still maintain;
C64 > Spectrum > Amstrad.
(though the Speccys Amstrad made weren't that bad eventually).
Re: @AC 04:48
Chocolate Concrete is essentially a brownie that has been baked too long. As Jyve has pointed out it could break teeth and shatter steel.
Depeche Mode > Human League
CASIO Keyboard present samba rhythm backing track > Human League
Corrected it for you - they really do suck harder than you initially suggested.
Re: In the 80's
The spectrum was way better than the C64! Well the 128K version was anyway.
Re: In the 80's
C64 > ZX Spectrum - No
Amiga > Atari ST - Yes
Android > iOS - Yes
Depeche Mode > Human League - Hell yes
Chocolate Concrete > Spotted Dick - Both vile
Regular Custard > Pink Custard - Ditto
Tiswas > Anything Noel Edmunds EVER does - Well, Duh!
Bankers
Yes. It's another sign of a sick society. The same sickness that has engulfed out banks and financial services. It's managed to corrupt our legislature. If it gets to corrupt our judiciary, we're doomed. I fear that it already has done so in the USA.
Re: @Jyve
Speaking of Amstrad, there is the interesting story of the Penpad.
All the time Apple were developing a portable computer with handwriting recognition in secret (the Newton), Amstrad were developing the Penpad (the same principle if more primitive).
Amstrad genuinely had no idea what Apple were up to until late in development and got their product to market first by a couple of weeks.
Can you imagine the fuss if that happened today? Apple would have had Amstrad in court quicker than you can say "You're Fired" regardless of how rubbish either product was.
Although I would have loved to have seen Margaret Mountford in action against the ambulance chasers at Apple!
Re: In the 80's
And the same thing in the media - most of the mainstream tech media is now "Apple is cool, anyone else sucks" playground arguments, there're few places to go to actually get objective unbiased coverage on new products.
@ Jyve Re: In the 80's
You forgot the obvious Star Wars / Star Trek
Re: @Jyve
Spectrum better than the Amstrad? I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there. Despite being made by Siralan, the Amstrad was better for a number of reasons:
- More memory (64k or 128k versus 48k)
- Built in cassette / disk drive versus dodgy external one requiring you to hit the pause/stop button at the right time.
- Far superior graphics, as opposed to the monstrosity that was the Speccy's attempt at handling more than 2 colours. The Amstrad had higher resolution / colour depth, using up a full 16k of its memory.
- The speccy had a power supply you could cook eggs on, the Amstrad CPCs had an internal supply which produced very little heat.
"They are not as cool"
Nor would you be if you'd just been dried in a microwave
Apple: "This kind of blatant copying..."
Judge: "They do not have the same understated and extreme simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design."
Eat shit Apple.
Open the iPod Bay Doors
This has been pointed out ad naseum but there loads of Sci-Fi prior art examples, 2001 being a fine example where we see Dave & Frank playing with their iPads whilst eating their space-food.
Surely then Apple copied Stanley Kubrick?
Primark
This'll be the test case cited next time a leading clothes label have a go at Primark for ripping off their designs.
"Summing up in the case, Lord Justice Rupert Farquhar said that whilst there were clearly striking similarities between Armarni and Primarni clothes, the later are invariably made of polyester, worn by chavs and sold in outlets situated inbetween a Stella-stocked cash-and-carry and a KFC..."
Re: Primark
"sold in outlets situated inbetween a Stella-stocked cash-and-carry and a KFC"
In Wigan it's in between KFC and MaccyD's (Google street view will confirm). Oh, the irony...
Mine's the one with the pockets full of sweets from Poundland across the road.
Good news, nice to see some dry wit bitchslapping one of the supercorps. Well played judge. Eliminated a huge scope for appeal. Score one for the consumer [as said above].
Looking for a new job methinks
Are clearly his words went WELL beyond what he should have said. It's also clear what hardware he owns...
What he (and every other Apple fanboy fails to grasp), that simplicity is a double edged sword. Yes the iPad may be simple, but it's simple for a reason, because it's aimed at simple people to achieve simple things.
In other words, it's a V-Tech for adults with special needs. You can't actually do anything useful on them, beyond what a £50 supermarket tablet can do.
Re: Looking for a new job methinks
Well I can see why you went anonymous for that one, sharp wit and starling insight! You weren't posting similarly on the CNN boards earlier were you?
Re: Looking for a new job methinks
To cut your argument down to its essence: "Dear everyone who does anything on the internet, I'm afraid that you are a simple person with special needs. Lots of love, AC"
Newton said: "Truth is ever to be found in simplicity"; I guess Newton's works on maths, physics, philosophy, etc, were just aimed at simple people to achieve simple things?
Re: Looking for a new job methinks
No, the point may have been: it's a great device and well-designed but there are limits as to how much a "simple design" can be protected.
The judge has come close to damning Apples "magical and revolutionary" device by faint praise and diplomatically thrown the case out.
Re: Looking for a new job methinks
>I guess Newton's works on maths, physics, philosophy, etc, were just aimed at simple people to achieve simple things?
Its an appropriate analogy - Apple is very much the Newton of today....
'if I have seen further it is by publishing the work of others...' is the quote that best sums him up.
An Etch-A-Sketch isn't a hand-held computer
The original judgement:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/1882.html
includes these words of wisdom
"17 Samsung pointed to differences between the lists of features relied on by Apple in the various parallel proceedings. I did not find analysing these differences to be a profitable exercise."
and
"44 The term "handheld computer" is the Art 36(2) indication of the product in the Apple registered design. Whatever the correct definition of the relevant product is in relation to the Apple registered design, I would be surprised if it included an Etch-A-Sketch."
Go Blighty! so far, maybe the last refuge of the sane judge in this world of litigation....
Sane Judge
That's because we funnel all our insane judges into the Libel Courts.
Another word for simplicity:
The complete lack of all features!
Re: Another word for simplicity:
Another word for kitchen design circa 2000 and 80's wall paper?
iphone.
"They do not have the same understated and extreme simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design."
I am glad of that! I hate Apples simple, single button design.. I like having a menu and back button on my samsung devices!
"The overall impression produced is different."
Yep thats true, With Apple I feel that they think I am a child, with Samsung I am treated like an adult, I am old enough to change batteries, I can handle more than one button, and I do like being able to add storage myself.
Change the battery on a Samsung
You can change the battery on a Galaxy Tab 10.1? Must say, that's come as a complete surprise to me. I have one in front of me and it looks as locked down as the iPad in terms of battery replacement.
Re: Change the battery on a Samsung
the question may be whether you can dismantle, replace battery and reassemble it using a normal techie's toolkit and a bit of Googling, or whether it's designed to be tamper-proof or unrepairable (which in my book ought to be illegal except when there's a strong health and safety reason).
I don't actually know.
Go judge Birss
While not a fanboi of Apple nor Android, I'm beginning to form an affection for the judge given his past record on the Andrew Crossley scam and now this.
I certainly appreciate his outspoken remarks in his decisions that seem to go well beyond the usual stale, forensic style of most official court decisions.
Old Farts dressed in strange hairpieces have ...
never been my idea of a technical resource.
This guy's advice seems as unreliable as David Pogue - the alleged wife beater who lectures at seminars against violence to women (he was arrested and charged) - of the New York Times whose present bed warmer is a woman employed in the California tech PR business.
Talk about bias, or maybe the judge is so dumb he can only handle simple things.Like powdering his funny wig,
Re: Old Farts dressed in strange hairpieces have ...
I think the bias is between your eyes and your brain somewhere. You clearly have a very biased opinion of judges, for example. Did you actually bother reading the ruling, or did you just form a (biased) opinion without full evidence?
Re: Old Farts dressed in strange hairpieces have ...
"maybe the judge is so dumb he can only handle simple things."
I hate to break your biased world view, but one does not get through a law degree, bar exams and enough practice to become a judge by being 'dumb'.
Re: Old Farts dressed in strange hairpieces have ...
"ever been my idea of a technical resource."
Oh. It's good that he's a judge and not a service engineer then (although the BOFH may have a thing or 2 to say about service engineers).
One thing that strikes me...
Are Apple claiming their customers are complete halfwits?
Sure, there're a lot of lookee-likee products out there, and the average dumbass might go "ooh shiny" at anything from a first edition Kindle to the latest iPad. Thing is, though, the smarter ones out there - the sort of well to do client both companies ought to be trying to lure (esoecially Apple) ought to be highly annoyed at the suggestion that they couldn't tell a Samsung from an Apple. Certainly anybody who has actually used such a device ought to know it well enough to be able to tell them apart.
Re: One thing that strikes me...
They aren't claiming it, they know it. That's how they manage to keep selling the same thing with only a mimimal improvement to the same people year after year by telling them it's 'all new'.
If Apple made cars
Just imagine if Apple made cars.
Sorry, you can't sell that car you've copied our design:
It has four wheels, an engine and seating or up to five passengers!
Nuff said.
Re: If Apple made cars
You win the award...
Its more like Apple saying we have designed a porsche, all the details the shape, etc, and samsung come along build almost exactly the same car, change the engine to a Mercedes engine and leave the badge off
Your average buyer comes along, looks like a porsche, has a decent engine, and is about 2/3 the cost.
Is this a problem? apple thinks so because they are taking their customers, me? I dont think it matters much.
Re: If Apple made cars
Actually, it's Apple that have left the badge off.
I thought the word SAMSUNG written across the device was a dead give away.
Obviously Apple can't read.
Apple's reps are being awfully incautious with their language, aren't they? From what they seem to be saying in the article, they aren't saying "We believe Samsung copied the iPad," but flatly asserting "Samsung have copied the iPad." Are they allowed to do that before the judge has ruled in their favour? Assuming it goes Samsung's way after all the appeals and cruft, could they countersue for corporate slander or somesuch?
"Are they allowed to do that before the judge has ruled in their favour?"
Yes.
Otherwise the libel courts would be choked with people suing over their husbands having said "I'll mow the lawn tomorrow".
Who gives a fuck really?
It's like bitching about paper backs looking similar.
Oh for fucks sake, "Our paper back has a picture of a cowboy and they copied it - they have a picture of a partly naked man...in a cowboy hat and jeans..." Piss and moan the Apple copy righters...
And and the front of ours has writing on it... and so does theirs...
And it opens to reveal pages and an index in the front - of fucking chapters for christs sake...
They copied us... "
The judge should have given the whining shits a public flogging in the town square for being whining arseholes.
Not that the people in Apple "never copied nuffin guv" either.
Whatever "cool" may or may not be, it's not decided by a gowned and wigged old geezer in any court, of any land.
I like that prior art has been noted in this case, Apple may have been the first to get it right and have a hit with the form factor, but it was not nearly the first to try it.
The elephant in the room
Is the judges comments that both items belong to a family with significant prior art.
This completely destroys the Apple belief that they invented the tablet. World of difference between inventing something or making something popular.
Re: The elephant in the room
Even on popularity, it's worth noting that the absurd amount of hype _preceded_ the Ipad even being announced, let alone released, so was not directly due to anything that Apple did. Once they'd got so much vast free advertising, they clearly had advantage over all the previous tablets (e.g., media players common in 2009, or the first Android tablets actually released from Archos before Apple), not to mention the advantage of being the only ones available in shops, and most of the media producing "apps" for Apple, but for no one else.
If it was the case that consumers looked at a row of tablets on a shelf, and picked Apple, then that would be fine - but it's sad that popularity was never decided like that. There's yet to be a fair fight in tablets - once other tablets are covered by the media and available in shops, then we'll see how the market turns out. Long term, I hope that Android gets the coverage and support it deserves.
(Also, I'd say that tablets have been popularised for years, far more so than Ipads, we just called them smartphones or PDAs. It's only the 10" form factor that only came a lot more recently. The media have recently redefined "tablet" to only mean a large device, to make Apple look like they were first, but this is not a correct usage of the term.)
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