Apple faces Italian shutdown over warranty skulduggery
Apple is facing a shutdown of its Italian operations by competition authorities over repeated flouting of that country's consumer-protection laws. Italian law states that consumer electronics devices must be sold with a two-year free warranty, and that the seller has an obligation to inform buyers of this fact. Apple is accused …
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Thank you Italy
Good to hear someone is prepared to take a stand.
Have they also addressed the power cord issue previously reported by El Reg at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/10/apple_magsafe_replacement/ ?
Re: Thank you Italy
Empty coffers wouldn't have anything to do with it?
I've had good service from Apple.
I have had both a Magsafe power supply replaced for free, and a motherboard replacement for free, both on a laptop that was theoretically out of warranty. Apple doesn't treat its customers badly - it generally treats them well.
However, Apple are control freaks. They don't like anyone else - such as the Italian government - telling them what they can, can't, or should do. They like to decide for themselves.
Re: I've had good service from Apple.
Hardly a glowing endorsement!
"I've suffered two separate faults" but Apple are good??
Slackle just need to pay up or get out. They obey the laws of the land, simple as that.
I thought Apple already complied with EU law
http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/
But AppleCare still has some advantages over the legally required warranty. So why can't they sell it? Must be some Italian insurer mafia involved in this.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
oh, Apple know about the law - they've written several pages about it..and a nice comparison page (they try to state their care protection program gives you better cover)..but they really dont care for the law at all with respect to consumer rights. Try taking your Apple kit with defects to the store with no Apple 3 year cover care program and see how far you get. I expect my laptop to last for years - my non Apple ones do (and did) and my linksys router has survived twice as long as any Apple Airport Express...
anonymous for this post because right now, getting a US company upset is getting your name on the do not travel lists and I'm sure they've love to void any care I currently hold on their kit :-(
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
Cool story bro
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
"Try taking your Apple kit with defects to the store with no Apple 3 year cover care program and see how far you get"
Done that, more than once. No problems, repairs get done, even got a new Mac desktop as a replacement for a machine that was well out of warranty.
There's an awful lot of hearsay (and complete fabrication) gets posted whenever an Apple story appears.
Mosty (I assume) from peaople who have never ever used the service they are so 'knowledgeable' about.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
They CAN sell it, they just have to ensure the punter realises there is a 2 year EU mandated warranty already in place, which makes the Apple one largely pointless.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
This story is exactly the reason I refuse to buy anything from this bunch of sharks. Bought stuff, taken it back when it broke, told to eff off or pay to repair it. They're just dodgy second hand car salemen in a shop instead of a car lot.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
I smell bullshit
I can't think of a single company who would willingly give you a brand new machine for something well out of warranty. Especially from a company who make you pay £179 for a replacement refurbished iphone if it's as much as 1 day out of warranty. At best they would offer to take a look at it for you for free and tell you how much it would be to repair or offer you a discount on a new machine.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
"Try taking your Apple kit with defects to the store with no Apple 3 year cover care program and see how far you get"
I did. I took an iPhone, that was out of its guarantee period, and without Applecare, to the shop because the battery was knackered. They replaced it for free. A bit later, I took a five year old laptop which was, again, out of its guarantee period and without Applecare, to the shop because it was randomly freezing up. They fixed the loose connection that was causing it, for what I consider to be a nominal fee.
Apple's customer service is excellent, because they want you to buy another expensive shiny thing in the future.
I smell bullshit
In that case it's your own.
Have the paperwork here and the bottom line says £0.00
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
Must have been your attitude, just as in your email. I managed to damage the motherboard by crass stupidity, on a white macbook. It still worked but the USB did not. They replaced it for nothing, just outside the guarantee period, even though I explained how I had done it. Then, just this year, the machine now four years old, I spotted a crack in the plastic around the screen: free replacement of the plastic part.
Perhaps it is your pleasant manner; I expect you get similar service wherever you go.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
I think it is something to do with selling it to people who don't REALISE they are already covered and don't need it. (Like the UK's PPI malarky) And the wording of the selling so as to try and push a product that in most cases might not be needed.
"Want to protect against manufacturing problems for two years, pay this for 2 years cover." but not actually stating whilst selling said policy.
"This is an additional cost to the standard two years 'legal cover against manufacturing problems' that the Italian membership of the EU grants you for free."
Obviously my Italian isn't that great so I used English (where applicable)
My Story of AppleCare
Generally I don't like Apple but I do use a MacBook for work. I spilled coffee on it and was told £700+ for repair. However due to some internal mix-up they gave me the wrong story and had me go down to the shop unnecessarily. That wasted my time and made me feel quite messed about - so in the end they gave me a brand new model for nothing.
So my verdict on AppleCare (based on this experience only) is doubleplusgood.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
"Try taking your Apple kit with defects to the store with no Apple 3 year cover care program and see how far you get"
You're absolutely right. I got nowhere. My iPhone's buttons broke and I was told I'd have to pay a lot to get it dealt with. It wasn't even 18 months old. Dreadful customer service and a blatant disregard for UK consumer rights by Apple.
Based on my own experiences I find it extremely hard to believe the people in this thread who've said they got stuff replaced for free, just like that. It really does sound like bullshit to me.
Re: I thought Apple already complied with EU law
No surprises wrt your experience. Maybe you just got lucky, or their favoritism database singled you out. As much money as apple charges, and given the fiendish, fierce demand for their shiny (cute, but overpriced) objects, it is no wonder they can afford to occasionally give awsy replacement devices, parts, and free service. But, that may also be just to bolster their case when they claim they are doing more.
What Italy and countries like Italy need to do and should have done if they have not is to require the covered consumer to first register their defect with the Italian equivalent of a consumer protection agency, then send in the repair request on behalf of the consumer. (Or, even better, silently monitor apple for flagrant, willful disregard of the repair/replace request, and then tack on contempt charges when cunsimers are blown off, given the runaround, etc.) Then, bill or direct apple to repair or replace post haste when it is a company brazenly flauting the consumer protection, warranty, and sales laws.
However, i am in no way saying replace or repair for free something older than 4 years or something visibly abused to hell and back. Apple laptops and phones do look and feel well-built, but that is not an excuse to tell the local government fo effoh. Part of the problem, though, is that there obviously are Italians willing to buy the coverage instead of playing toe-to-to with apple and threatening them. But, to do so if known by name might mean being sold a device from "the quirky lot". Maybe apple can afford to punish or annoy a small number of irritating customers since their screams would just be dull background noise most of the time.
It would be interesting if the Italian givernment were to publish a List of Compliant Merchants and Non-Clompliant Miscreants and then detail their conduct with no provisions for pre-trial or pre-fine protections when the CP portal reveals blatant violation of CP law and regulations. But, then, that ould only generate a visit by a usdos official, and threats of no preferential access to usdod or other treatment. Or, boycots or tariff action...
Apple breaking the law, an EU directive and the iTards think the mafia is having a hand in it. Just about sums up the whole culture.
What do you mean you're Iranian?, out you go.
Apple repair costs
Where I used to work one of our directors had a total LCD failure on his MacBook Air. It was just over a year old and Apple quoted £480 for the repair. I thought it was going to be expensive, but not THAT expensive.
He didn't particularly like the Apple so he bought a nice new Dell instead and kept the change:-)
Re: Apple repair costs
That £480 laptop probably wasn't in the same criteria as an MB Air and Dell wouldn't be any better than when faced with an out of warranty repair.
Last time a guy at work wanted to fix a broken hinge on his Dell laptop it cost over £120 and took two weeks.
Re: Apple repair costs
If he had stood for his rights, most likely the screen would have been replaced without charge.
Re: Apple repair costs
My last Dell laptop went back SEVEN times before they lemon'ed it out. I am on my THIRD Macbook Pro, I've averaged three years a piece on them, and sold them for about 1/2 the cost of their replacements. Out of three machines, I have had one bad power switch, Apple fixed it overnight. The average turn around time on the Dell repair was 2-3 WEEKS.
I'd rather have a Laptop I can trust and skip "pocketing the change"
Meanwhile, over at Dell Italia...
Dell only mentions 1 year standard hardware warranty everywhere including their website in Italy - "1 anno de supporto hardware on-site entro un giorno lavorativo") , with a 1 year Premium option for €24,99 (whatever that is) or a 3 year option for €129,99.
No mention of the EU warranty.
I guess the Italians are planning to close down Dell next?
Re: Meanwhile, over at Dell Italia...
On-site support is a genuine extra.
At least if they honour the deal. I've had mixed experiences with Dell, but the most recent (and the only one this century) was so horrendous it'll be the last.
Re: Meanwhile, over at Dell Italia...
The Dell Italian warranty is here: http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/emea/topics/footer/terms?c=it&l=it&s=gen. There's a lot of legalese, but while their "basic commercial warranty" says one year, they also say they can't override any law protecting the consumer. Of course I guess they will try to deceive the less informed one.
On-site support is not covered by "D.Lgs. n. 206 del 6.9.2005", the Italian law also known as "Codice del Consumo" (Consumer Law), Dell is free to sell it as long as it comply with the law - it could mean you have to send it to repair at your own expenses, but they have to repair it. It also protects only non-professional customers, devices bought for professional use has only one year compulsory warranty.
It is true Apple is not alone (I had the same issue with HP), but the Italian Authority can't start on its own, someone has to ask for it. I was about to start the process with HP, but then I found how to enter the printer "secret" maintenance menu and resolved the problem myself - guess that was what they would have done for €140 (while trying to sell me a new printer...)
I wish Canada had that sort of consumer protection law
I wish Canada had that sort of consumer protection law. Italy may have a lot wrong, but they have consumer electronics warranties right.
When in Rome...
Do what the bloody Romans (Italians) tell you to do!
Seriously Apple and other international companies need to release that their "user agreements" are not above local law!
Beer for Italy
EU Warranty
A two year warranty is insane: I want my (thing) to last FOREVER... Here in the States a one year warranty is golden and when that period is over we just buy another (thing) when it fails. Why in God's name would anyone expect their toys to last more than a year?
Re: EU Warranty
I've got products in my house from the 1960s that still work perfectly... Yet if I brought the same stuff today I'd be lucky to get 5 years out of them... let alone 5 decades.
"Planned Obsolescence" is bollocks and companies need to be forced to start making stuff that will last again!
Re: EU Warranty
Indeed, I have a car which was built in the mid-90's and is still going strong today, never let me down once. And guess what? It's not American.
That said, it's certainly not Italian either.
Re: EU Warranty
A two year warranty is insane
You know, man, that's just your opinion. And if you prefer that you buy and use crap, well it's just your own opinion, again.
Re: EU Warranty
it's certainly not Italian either.
Yeah, Ferrari is totally badz.
Re: EU Warranty
Perhaps because some of us value our money and when we spend a significant amount of money on something we want it to last for a fairly long time.
Mine's the one with three mp3 players in the pocket all of which are over seven years old and still going strong.
Re: EU Warranty @stanimir
Spoken like a man who has never owned a FIAT. or an Alfa Romeo for that matter. Oh lets not forget Lancia. And until they were bought by Audi, Lamborghini were not exactly the peak of reliability.
So the moral is that if you want a reliable italian car, you have to spend over £250,000?
Impossible 2-year warranty for Apple
How can Apple give a 2-year warranty on their crappy products that have glued-in batteries? They just can't. Their products are made to be expendable, so you just go out and purchase a new one even if only the battery goes bad - and it WILL go bad after BEFORE 2 years. The consumers are to blame for filling Cupertino's wallets so much, not realizing that once problems arise with their expensive toys the only way out is buying a new one, unless you are in Italy!
The solution is just not buy anything made by Apple. I hope they burn in hell also for their patent-troll antics, trying to keep their rival Samsung out of the stores with their BS lawsuits. If they have their stores shut down for a month they deserve it! I also suggest that their entire inventory be impounded, and that any distribution by all the carriers be banned for the same period.
Re: Impossible 2-year warranty for Apple
I suspect things like batteries are subject to the 'normal wear and tear' disclaimer, so not covered by the warranty anyway.
I guess the big question is how 'serviceable' a product should be - maybe a battery shouldn't have to be consumer-replaceable, but perhaps it should cost less than x% of the new price to replace it...
one eyed view of the world
For a company as clever and innovative as it is, Apple sure do seem to lack basic wisdom when it comes to understanding markets outside the US.
It is not about whether a product should/should not have a 1 or 2 year warranty, it is simply about complying with the laws of the country you are operating in.
The 4G claim in Australia, as well as this claim, should not have needed to happen. Apple should have used local knowledge to understand the local laws/regulations. One of the excuses we're always given by foreign companies who attempt to charge us more for goods is "the cost of local staff and operations", so it is not like Apple didn't have the people already in place that could have seen these potential local problems brewing. Either the local Apple directors failed to do their job or the US directors chose to ignore concerns raised by their local counterparts.
Apple is not stupid though by a long-shot, I suspect that most of these local problems (4g,Applecare and even Proview to a certain extent) have more to do with a corporate, myopic view of the world in general seen through US eyes.
It wouldn't be the first time a US company (or any foreign company for that matter) failed to see/understand a situation through a local perspective. I was unfortunate enough, several years ago, to be employed by a US company opening a division in Australia who did not understand why they were not allowed to offer us only 2 weeks vacation per year like their US employees. When the directors were told it was simply "the law here" it still didn't stop them from fighting tooth-and-nail against it then subsequently feeling "cheated" when they didn't get their way.
Most of us employees went from being enthusiastic about working for a big US multinational company to simply wondering who exactly were these arrogant amateurs we worked under and were expected to rely upon as well as respect.
Re: one eyed view of the world
"company as clever and innovative as it is"......
W O W! You must be blind, deaf and dumb. I bet your easily taken in by advertising.
You must be if you own a "magical and revolutionary" device.
You must qualify your claims. Innovative? When? How? With what?
Most of Apple's innovations and clearly copies or extensions of previously created ideas.
If you’re easily taken in by advertisers, and truly believe that your status is elevated by owning an Apple device, you’re a total MUG, and you deserve to have all of your money taken away from you.
Re W O W! You must be blind, deaf and dumb. I bet your easily taken in by advertising.
See no Advertising
Hear no Adverising
Speak no bollocks
Re: one eyed view of the world
WOW you really do have a bee in your bonnet about Apple!
I'm no Apple fantard by a long shot, they actively do a lot of crap that I think is just plain shitty but to discount them entirely, and to ignore and pretend they do nothing clever and innovative makes me wonder who in fact is "blind deaf and dumb"
I'd like to know which tech companies YOU actually think are innovative and clever considering you find Apple so dismissively lame.
You also obviously have no idea how advertising works if you think that the Apple branded "wonderful" and "magical" commercials (or simple positive press/PR) are the only reasons why Apple manages to sell the number of products they sell. I guess it is just easier to justify your anti fantard stance by continually telling yourself that everyone who buys an Apple product has been a victim of advertising and "conned" instead of considering that many might actually be "happy", "satisfied" and maybe even more "productive" after their Apple purchase.
I'm impressed though that you made a comment, it is not everyday that angry, red flushed, sweaty and balding guys named Balmer respond to my posts.
Re: one eyed view of the world
I dunno why you bother ticking the AC box "Obviously!"
Warrantries are an especially touchy subject for all the fandroids. Their cheap phones hardly last 6 months and are lucky to even see a software update in that time so they desperately need the warranty.
Let's see what my Android devices say:
HTC Wildfire S: Used it for over a year, no problems, still used as backup phone; got an update just a few days ago
HTC Desire S: currently in use, update a few weeks ago, ICS update planned for later this month
Archos 70IT: Used it for over a year, got about a dozen updates, including an update to Android 2.3, would still be working if I hadn't dropped it on concrete
Archos 80 Gen9: Bought it about 7 months ago, still working fine, got several updates, including ICS early this year
So all of my Android devices get updates (not always in a timely fashion, I grant you that), and last for more than 6 months. I'm to blame for the only one that isn't working anymore (and actually, it's working fine, except for the screen).
W O W!
A clear demonstration of just how deluded “i” device owners really are.
You’re a dream to the advertisers. You'll clearly believe any old shite, like "magical and revolutionary"
How many droids have you owned to make such a sweeping and totally incorrect assumption?
This is going to be interesting.
I hope they close all Apple stores down, if for nothing else than a bit of trashy RL entertainment.
Cue millions of angry fanbois setting cities on fire when they realize they can't get this month's shiny-shiny.
Flame, because that's what the fanbois will do.
AFAIK the EU 2 yr warranty thing applies to consumer sales (members of the public).
Business to Business stuff does not apply. Therefore your Dell/HP Business PC/Notebook can still have a 1 year warranty, or even three months if they felt like it.
If Apple are flouting the law, then they need their knuckles rapped, but for a company the size of Apple, €900K is only a tickle. They need a bigger stick - at least double that - plus the shops shut and imports banned for a month in the whole EU!!
Exit Italy
Well in my opinion, just withdraw from the Italian market all together, if they don't like what the rest of the world has then tough, thats how the cookie crumbles!
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