Windows 8: We kick the tyres on Redmond's new tablet wheels
The surprising thing about the Windows 8 Release Preview just delivered is not how much has changed from February's Consumer Preview, or even the Developer Preview from September 2011, but rather how little. Microsoft is set on delivering this hybrid tablet-and-desktop operating system pretty much as-is, despite widespread …
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Re: multiple monitors?
You forgot to mention that when you unplug your laptop from the external monitors, all* the application windows that were open in the right-hand monitor are now inaccessible, even after restarting the application.
(* For a large subset of popular commercial applications, in any case.)
flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
So Flash is baked in to IE now, and because IE is going to be plug-in free, does that mean there's no way to use something like Ad-Block to avoid adverts?
Or is there a type of non-plug-in plug-in that we'll be able to use?
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
Actually No
Firefox can't write a browser for it as they don't have access to the API's
Theres been a couple of stories etc on it here in the past week orso.
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
If you actually cared to do a little research my dear chap, before prattling on like a fool, you would realise that it is a cut down version of flash that only allows certain whitelisted sites play flash content. I am certain that this list does not include advertisers.
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
Firefox will be able to work in Metro mode on Windows 8 for x86, but won't work on Windows 8 for ARM.
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
I think you meant
"Firefox will be able to work in Desktop mode on Windows 8 for x86, but won't work on Windows 8 for ARM"
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
... until Microsoft do the deal with the ad networks and adds them to the "allowed" list in an "update". Reminiscent of the deal they did with Big media rights owners...
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
No. WOA doesn't allow access to the Win32 API except to Microsoft and it just so happens that if you want to write software of any complexity like IE/Office for tablets you need the Win32 API. It also only allows installations from MS's online shop. Finally there's an IE-only policy for WOA. They can do this because they're not a monopoly in this area.
However Windows 8 for Intel does allow (some) Metro apps access to Win32, does allow installations from outside of MS's shop and to avoid accusations of monopoly other browsers are allowed.
It's going to be an unmitigated disaster.
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
> I am certain that this list does not include advertisers.
Certain? Why, did you actually care to do a little research?
Re: flash baked in? so adverts unavoidable?
Just find a list of all the ad-servers' address in the world, add them to the hosts file, and alias them to 127.0.0.1. Troublesome, but it was the oldest method in the book.
Iceberg spotted on horizon, captain determined to beat sales records and piling on steam
Metro on tablet: maybe (depends on app support, and it's basically a new platform launched a few years behind the iPad.. developers will need convincing).
Metro on desktop: sorry, but it's a big step back. I think it would actually work better if it was *pure* metro rather than this nasty half'n'half we're being given, because at least it would be consistent (and actually pretty good), if not exactly keyboard + mouse friendly. Problem is, it'd still end up worse than windows 7 on the desktop.
So basically what we have is this:
- On the desktop, a downgrade for most users.
- On the tablet, a new and untested OS that's late to the market... risky!
- On the amazing new hybrid desktop/tablet machines? A new and untested category of device that may or may not take off. This is the only place where it makes sense, and we don't know yet if there's even a market for it, or if it'll work well enough if there is.
This could be a massive disaster for the PC industry. It's already starting to sink under the threat from tablets + mobile. Now microsoft are throwing them a huge pile of bricks instead of a lifeline, because people won't buy a new PC if they don't like the OS on it.
Speaking of which, will windows 7 still be available to buy, and will it be available on new machines when 8 is out?
"This could be a massive disaster for the PC industry. "
And not a moment too soon - it's amazing how long it has survived as the bunch of box-shifters it became during late 80s and early 90s.
Re: Iceberg spotted on horizon, captain determined to beat sales records and piling on steam
"This could be a massive disaster for the PC industry. It's already starting to sink under the threat from tablets + mobile. Now microsoft are throwing them a huge pile of bricks instead of a lifeline, because people won't buy a new PC if they don't like the OS on it."
Having held the PC industry back for 20 years, I would have thought that MS finally getting a Design Idea (even if it is one that has some poorly thought out implementation) would be considered a good thing, especially since it might open the door to other challengers being able to compete -- and particularly if they adhere to documented open standards, with some consideration for those people that might have to get something back from archive in 20 years time.
[Watching from the side lines. I actually compute for a living: all the heavy duty computing SW in my Industry is aimed at proper operating systems anyway so, other than documentation, zero impact to me]
Does anyone remember the ending to Terminator 2 ?
Where the evil terminator dies thrashing around in hot metal, and goes through it's past lives ?
People won't be won over
Not when Microsoft is not addressing obvious shortcomings in metro. There are some very obvious ways Windows 8 could improve the experience and it doesn't. Lack of folders is the most obvious omission but also the inability to set zoom level, the lack of Windows button and more.
Would it really damage their design ethic for Metro to implement something called a "folder" and represent program groups by such a thing? They could even do some neat little animation where you hover or click on them and the icons whoosh out make space for themselves in the list.
Putting all programs and icons in a linear list is just flat out stupid. It's broken for desktops where many people may have hundreds of icons and sorely missing even for tablets.
One wonders if Microsoft are really intending for Windows 8 to be usable for desktops at all. It's beginning to feel like they really don't care and intend an 8.5 or 9 down the line to make it work in a tolerable way. This is shaping up to be the worst received release since Windows Me.
Oh how lovely my Metro Desktop looks...
littered with masses of ReadMe and Unistall tabs everywhere. Looks so classy.
I love the fact they have built in that slide puzzle thing, (you know the ones we had as kids where you slide the tiles to get them in order) for arranging the Tabs, just that those crafty buggers have worked it so it's impossible to get them in the order you want.
Was that intentional?
Re: People won't be won over - worst received release since Windows Me.
I think you could be right on the Me comparison, however this is very different to the Me issue.
Me was rubbish behind the scenes, it was unstable, driver support was poor, it was slow. However the interface was quite nice, it was the Windows 2000 interface which most people would only have seen at the time if their place of work was using it. It was familiar enough looking very similar to 98 that people were used to but with a bit of polish.
Contrast this with Windows 8 where behind the scenes the OS is great, it's stable, fast, I've no doubt driver support will be as good as Windows 7. The problem with Windows 8 is the interface.
Cue massive sales of Windows 7
Remember when MS introduced Vista, and every manufacturer offered an XP downgrade option?
I predict a bout of déjà vu for the Windows group.
Metro is just an extension of the Ribbon I/F
What is there not to like? ;)
Or it is like using a browser in kiosk mode, or it is just one big tool bar.
Mine's the one with the MeeGo on a flash drive.
Re: Metro is just an extension of the Ribbon I/F
Install VS2010 in Win8 and you get a home page full of icons for "MFC-Trace tool", "Install MSFT FXcop", "Manifest log viewer" and other tools I had never heard of.
Presumably this is an egalitarian American ideal.
Supporting equality over the oppressive hierarchy that gave precedence to Visual Studio or Excel over these poor oppressed downtrodden utilities that nobody ever used - now they have equal place on your desktop.
Re: Mine's the one with the MeeGo on a flash drive.
MeeGo is dead, long live Tizen.
Flash from the past
Is it me but doesn't Metro seem like how Windows 3.11 was just with added widgets?
Re: Flash from the past
Sir, I knew Windows 3.11. Windows 3.11 was a friend of mine. And this is no Windows 3.11.
Re: Flash from the past
Actually it looks more like Windows 1; a big pile of stuff to click and after you click it it appears on screen.
Major difference being that instead of full screen Windows actually knew how to tile stuff back then. A lesson I think they'll have to re-learn.
OK all you tech savvy people......
Its time to read up on how to do the downgrade process.....
I know for sure that my sister is going to be getting a new laptop for Xmas and you can bet the first thing she will ask her "Tech Support" ie me is how to sort the computer to run properly......
And by properly she will mean like her old one and the ones at work do.......
Wonder how much I can charge per person if I hand out leaflets outside Currys just before Xomas........
Lets hang fire for a moment
Vote up all of you lovely people that have tried it.
I haven't, but I am old enough to remember the every other rule with micro$oft.
Good version/bad version/good version/bad version
It's the Fringe parody - in the blue universe Bill gates is still in change and the products don't suck as much
Re: Lets hang fire for a moment
Old enough to remember the every other rule or young and ignorant enough to buy into the stupid every other rule which anyone with actual experience knows is a load of horseshit?
Re: Lets hang fire for a moment
Old enough to remember a rule which is actually a crappy Internet meme, but not mature enough to realise that it's incredibly childish to use a dollar sign for the s in Microsoft.
Big company in makes money shocker.
Re: Lets hang fire for a moment
While I agree on the every other rule, it won't stop me pointing and laughing.
Still unimpressed
Still unhappy. I have tried it. I miss Windows.
for users equipped with mouse and keyboard this feels wrong...
It doesn't just FEEL wrong, it IS wrong. Desktops are NOT fondleslabs and it doesn't matter what Microsoft say or do, desktops can NEVER be fondleslabs.
Re: for users equipped with mouse and keyboard this feels wrong...
As the mouse points out, you don't need to have a touch screen to manipulate the screen, my boss has an external multi touch bluetooth touchpad for his Mac laptop. I daresay that this would work just fine with Windows 8.
Re: for users equipped with mouse and keyboard this feels wrong...
"my boss has an external multi touch bluetooth touchpad for his Mac laptop"
Fair enough. That could work. Most users have a £2 optical mouse plugged in at the moment. How much are these multi touch bluetooth touchpads? Oh, and the cost of the bluetooth dongle for the PC since most desktops don't have BT. An the time for tech support to roll out the drivers etc, plug in the dongles for those users too scared to di it themselves.
It probably is a good idea as an option, but not as a requirement to work around a problem which doesn't have to exist in the first place.
Re: for users equipped with mouse and keyboard this feels wrong...
Indeed. Note that Apple have a different UI on the iMac compared to the iPad. They know that they are two completely different classes of devices and users. The iMac one is not unlike "classic" Windows XP or 7.
(Amazing. Microsoft has managed to make me say something nice about Apple! )
This is definitely a HUGE gamble by MS. I don't think your average home user will care - 'Wow, this works almost like my IPad - my Facebook, twitter, email all work! Yay!!!'
Power users? I really doubt it.
Corporate users? Probably will be fine since start menu is still there but I wonder what the costs will be for user training on new Metro UI. I Also wonder about the costs for apps that may have to be re-written. The migration costs for Win 8 could be unprecedented.
I agree that this looks like it may be a disaster for the PC industry - more and more consumers are buying tablets instead of laptops and with Win 8 most consumers won't be able to differenatiate between either. Tablet will become laptop without keyboard.
>Speaking of which, will windows 7 still be available to buy, and will it be available on new machines >when 8 is out?
I doubt it. MS wants everyone on the new OS (whichever one just came out) so no Win 7 on new machines and stores will stop stocking Win 7 as sales diminish.
Who knows. Maybe the era of desktop/laptop is slowly coming to an end. We may be entering the era of strictly tablet/thin client and servers/clouds.
It's anyone's guess as to how this movie will end so just break out the popcorn.
It's Friday and nearly pub o'clock!
Corporate users? Probably will be fine since start menu is still there but I wonder what the costs will be for user training on new Metro UI. I Also wonder about the costs for apps that may have to be re-written. The migration costs for Win 8 could be unprecedented.
We have only just upgraded from IE6 to IE8 due to old programs and code.
We have about 600 legacy programs in use and I can see a massive problems switching to version 8. It has taken the best part of a year to test and modify them to go from XP to windows 7, I dread to think about try to implement an upgrade to Windows 8......
We have that problem too...
I suspect that at least one of our ven-duhs would still have us on windows 2000 if we'd let them.
critical line-of-business app that doesn't support windows 7 on the client, and won't until we upgrade the *server* side of the software which will require a forklift upgrade and a very large amount of money for new hardware whilst writing off the hardware we put in not too long ago that hasn't had all the shiny rubbed off it yet.
I suspect we'll be on windows 7 and XP for a while still...
Who says that the corporate world should move straight away? If you are, you're doing it wrong. Fact is, this new paradigm is here to stay and the next release and the release after that will be using the exact same, with tweaks. So you have plenty of time to move on. In the meantime, 7 (hell even Vista) will still be sold and supported, so stop panicking!
Start menu is still there?
I installed the public preview on a VM last night. My desktop didn't even have a start button. There was a start button on the developer preview. Deleted the VM within about ten minutes.
If you want a look at how a mobile/touch based interface can be done properly on a desktop, look no further than the LaunchPad on Mac OSX Lion.
The solution is simple
Install Stardock's 'Start8', which adds both a metro themed classic start menu, and the option to use metro in a window. Expect 99% of OEMs to ship this pre-installed.
Re: The solution is simple
You go try it and report back.
You'll see.
Re: The solution is simple
Tried it in CP, worked fine for me. Some tweaks could be made here or there to make navigation easier, but I was always more of a fan of using the search anyway. Another alternative is ViStart, which is identical to the Win7 start menu.
Re: The solution is simple
No with this release they have ripped out the legacy code for it.
Quite a few articles on the web about it.
Nice of them isn't it?
Re: The solution is simple
@Jason - I'd personally like to have a start menu as an option, but this is one of those dammed if they do dammed if they don't areas: Windows shouldn't be full of legacy code, it should be well pruned, if there is code that shouldn't be being used, it should be removed.
Re: The solution is simple
Oh I agree.
All this could have been avoided if they had simply put in a custom installer and given us the 'choice'.
Haven't had a custom Windows Install option since Windows 98SE.
It's about the app store
This metro lunacy only makes sense if you understand the contemporary US business mind. In full view of everyone from every business sector, Apple utter zombies of its customers and shafted them every-which-way-from Sunday - making themselves incredibly rich in the process. Everyone now wants a piece of that action. The problem for these new wannabe Scrooges is that Apple had the iphone. The iphone was seen as so desirable that Apple *could get away* with shafting their customers - nobody cared, they just wanted the device. In time their ability to do this will diminish as the novelty of that device diminishes. Apple's power to keep doing business this way depends upon them continually releasing "must have" devices. They will not achieve this constant top-level turnover of product, so they will bask in an inevitable backlash in time.
So back to Microsoft. These people are not smart. They look solely at the revenue-end of what Apple is achieving without the slightest regard for the concept of product demand. Product to them is just a minor element in a wider revenue equation. So now they've decided they want a cut from all apps running on Windows. Just like the Apple app store. Imagine the money! Metro and its associated app store are its way to achieve this. Problem is that greedily turning over their customer base and restricting user freedom to such a degree is customer-shafting at a level that would make Jobs blush. It's patently absurd, childish, moronically conceived, and doomed to catastrophic failure. I can't say I'm not looking forward to the show.
Re: It's about the app store
Newsflash commentard.
The majority of apple users are massively satisfied and keep coming back for more - that hardly meets the definition of 'shafted' now does it?
Now excuse me whilst I go off to fondle my iPad then enjoy a post coitus fag.
Re: It's about the app store
Read and understand sir. Yes, as I stated, Apple get away with it because there's an enormous carrot with the stick.
Microsoft have no carrot, so shafting their customer base will produce one hilariously obvious result. Very amusing for onlookers such as myself.
So, what you're saying is...
Microsoft is shafting their customers with the stick, rather than the carrot...
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