I need to multitask, but Windows 8's Metro won't let me
What is multitasking? Different people seem to mean different things when they use the word multitasking. The definition chosen has implications for accepting or rejecting the prevailing design choices of modern user interfaces. I have been a vocal critic of Windows 8's Metro interface. My chief complaint is that it does not …
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Yes, even Metro dualtasking is often worse than useless. When I have Eclipse running in debug mode it barely squeezes enough information onscreen in fullscreen 2048x1152 mode.
If I need an external target window open (typically the Android emulator) I want that window stealing the absolute minimum screen area from Eclipse, not some arbitrary large Microsoft decided fraction. If I put it on a 2nd monitor I don't want Metro's piss poor multimonitor support getting in the way either or having to squash or replace the apps pinned there already.
That's just dualtasking. Before I got a smartphone I'd leave just enough of the email client exposed to track incoming mail, put an IM client in a tiny window in a corner, a browser tracking something else and still have plenty of space for several working windows. Now I use the smartphone as a 3rd monitor handling all that crap, maybe Metro is really about getting everyone to work that way as a way to sell Win8 devices ;)
One thing you haven't realised...Eclipse isn't a metro app, it runs as a traditional desktop app does. There is no difference when it comes to running traditional desktop apps.
It's clear reading the comments on ANY Windows 8 related post on El Reg that most people haven't actually spent any decent amount of time trying the very thing they are complaining about.
I didn't realise it was still "cool" to hate everything M$ does without even trying it properly.
You can still run your normal desktop apps in the same way, this isn't changing. They (Microsoft) also aren't saying everything should be a Metro style app.
It's fine to have an opinion and there will genuinely be things a lot of people won't like. That's allowed, but at least try things before randomly bashing them.
Dual monitor support may need some work doing to it, but the OS isn't even out yet....
[$application] is a Metro app.
For now. But for how long? Microsoft are pushing WinRT hard. Your argument presupposes trust and a continuation of "the way things are today." I don't think that's a good plan anymore. Microsoft have made it very clear through their actions that "the way things are today" is not remotely how they envision it being tomorrow.
Re: [$application] is a Metro app.
Good. The WIMP-based desktop metaphor is an anachronism and the mouse has been a pain in the arm (literally) for decades now.
Also, forget using Windows 8 on a traditional desktop, because traditional desktops haven't been selling in any great numbers for years now. The vast majority of computers sold today are laptops, or related form-factors.
Windows 8's Metro on a laptop fitted with a decent multi-touch trackpad makes a hell of a lot more sense than Windows 7's ageing lipstick-on-a-pig WIMP system does. As others have pointed out, Windows has a major issue with focus-stealing—that's one of the reasons I eventually gave up and made the switch to another platform. I hate that focus-stealing.
Furthermore, every f*cking Windows application seems to insist on adding yet more icons to the system tray so it can notify me whenever it's done something right—"Hi! I'm your anti-virus scanner! I've just finished scanning your drive and slowing down everything else! I hope you don't mind my interrupting your 'flow' by making this utterly pointless announcement!" Shut the fuck UP! I'm WORKING you arrogant, incredibly annoying bunch of bytes!
Every bloody program insists on using its own updating framework too, so every goddamned time you open a PDF, or view a website with a Flash element, or open a Word file, or start Open/LibreOffice, instead of just letting you get on with it, the damned thing insists you install the latest update. And then it makes you wait while it does so.
Would it kill developers to have their application offer to quietly download and install these updates behind the scenes, so when you next start the application, it's already bloody updated and you need never, ever be nagged again?
And people wonder why Apple's App Store model is so popular: it unifies the updates too, so you can see if any are available at a glance from the icon in the Dock—a "pull" process—without the nagging, and you can choose to install any, or all, of them at a time of your choosing.
But I like Metro. Seriously. I've used it on Windows Phone 7 devices too and it works even better there. It still has a v1.0 feel to it, but even the first versions of iOS and Android had their rough edges. As a first effort, I think it's a good one. It's certainly more original than Android.
Re: [$application] is a Metro app.
WTF is it with you and this "multi-touch trackpad" malarkey? I'm really starting to think you don't actually know what a trackpad is!
TrackPADs are one of the worst pointing devices known to man, the primary limitation being that you cannot move the pointer very far before you have to pick up your hand, move back to the other side of the pad to move further.
Multitouch for a trackpad means that a few shortcuts can be built into the pad - eg right-click, scroll wheel - as it can tell the difference between one, two, many and lots of fingers and a limited number of gestures.
Metro is optimised for a touchSCREEN, and is possibly the worst interface ever developed for use with a trackPAD, multitouch or not.
That's because the Metro 'start menu' requires you to move the pointer further across the screen to get to the thing you wanted than the Windows XP/Vista/7 one, and is therefore considerably worse for trackpad users.
Sorry what?
Um... are you seriously saying that if I have multiple screens, and I want my copy of Word, a copy of Excel, a browser and a copy of notepad all open and visible, if they're metro apps (as I understand MS want all apps to be).... I can't, or did I misunderstand?
If Microsoft were not smoking something potent before they are now.
Re: Sorry what?
> multiple screens
From what I am reading Windows 8 supports multiple monitors but metro doesn't. You will have metro on one screen only and the rest fall back to classic mode.
I would guess they are smoking something strongly dissociative. Like PCP.
Re: Sorry what?
Well that sort of answers one of my questions about how this will work with multiple monitors, but it raises more. I've tried Win8 out on my laptop. I still don't like it much - it's a step backward from Win7, imo. But on a laptop where I'm generally just browsing or doing a single thing such as a word document or reading a PDF, it's not a disaster, just a nuisance. But on my Desktop I am a power user. I will frequently have a VM running on one monitor and Windows visible on the other containing, e.g. my email client, Skype, maybe a browser window. If I don't have the VM up, it's typically because I'm doing more management stuff, e.g. I have MS Project up on one screen, Excel or Word or my email client in another. Will this sort of set up be possible in Windows 8? I assume with the Desktop I can do this (and Metro will merely be an annoying nuisance when I start up or need to launch a new program). But what about full screen progams such as my VM that take over the whole monitor as if it were there own? Does anyone know how Win8 will affect all this?
Re: Sorry what?
I've got an even better, one-word question, thinking about my setup at home:
Eyefinity?
Ooooooh, that's gonna be bad.
Re: Sorry what?
You can have as many desktop "non-Metro" apps open on each screen as you need. i.e. full screen RDP session on 1 screen and whatever else you need (email etc) on the other. If you hit the Start key your nominated default screen will fill with the Metro start screen again. Toggle back to the desktop and you are back to full desktop mode across both screens.
Re: Sorry what?
Thanks. That is a relief. There seems to be a lot of confusion here between Desktop and Metro "Apps."
Re: Sorry what?
Metro supports multiple monitors. The consumer preview does not do multimon correctly. However Microsoft have made some huge strides in multimonitor support in Windows 8. Both in Metro mode and the legacy desktop.
There are many valid complaints to level against Windows 8, but please read the provided link...Multimonitor support is no longer one of them.
@h4rm0ny
Worse: many desktop apps will be "Metro style," while still being full-bore desktop apps with Windowing and everything!
Users are going to be so confused...
Re: Sorry what?
> Metro supports multiple monitors.
I don't think so; Windows 8 supports multi monitors, but metro seems to be only active on one screen at any one time. The other screen(s) revert to classic mode. You can't seem to have two monitors showing metro apps simultaneously.
Do metro applications run in classic mode? If not then MS are effectively deprecating multi monitor support with their push for all applications to be written using metro....
Re: Sorry what?
You are correct; Metro is active on only one screen at a time...but it can be any screen. What's more, if your Metro app was open on screen 1, it will be available to you on screen 2 when you open metro there, etc.
So it is not "true multimon support" in the way that the desktop can present windows in a multimonitor environment. But it is still way – way – better than being restricted to “Metro on the primary monitor only” as it was easier in this game.
"Er, Microsoft? Multi = more than 2"
No, Trevor, it isn't.The counting goes like thus:
Single
Multi
Three
(open research question)
Or at least it does in SSDs.
Re: "Er, Microsoft? Multi = more than 2"
I thought it was one two many lots.
Re: "Er, Microsoft? Multi = more than 2"
It depends how long you spend in the pork futures warehouse...
Fake multitasting
I couldn't agree more.
While it is easy to see why Microsoft is choosing this option, I assume battery life, it is a nasty design decision, and it seems Microsoft keeps forgeting every design rules validated over decades of experience in its haste to force Metro on the desktop users: (color-free VS2011, MENUS ALL CAPS, changing decades-old windows shortcuts, mouse & keyboard as second class citizens for touch-free desktop users, 2 IEs without the same capabilities e.g. an impotent metro IE without flash and without favorites, contract-breaking 'multitasking in WP7.5' with terrible tombstoning philosophy)
Just try and watch a video with the metro viewer, or use the channel9 app and then switch to IE for additional information, a very popular use-case. Or watch a video in metro IE then switch to another app. The video and sound are instantly paused. We just went back 30 years in the past at the very least. As for me, this isn't only annoying, this prevents from working productively. So if you want to you'll have to use a desktop app such as VLC.
This is all the more annoying that Windows 8 promises to be a great OS and that ironically the multitasking, parallel, async, vectorized, CPUs+GPUs support was never better than it will be in W8.
first concorde, now the UI
crazy isn't it ? I mean, I remember when I had my Amiga, I'd have various CLI windows doing things, maybe a game open in another window, etc.
Technical people especially like to work that way - on my mac I tend to have a browser open with one or more windows, each with multiple tabs, Mail open, and also might be working in Aperture, PS and Final Cut. I'll have my spaces set so that each 'productivity space' has the apps I need to work concurrently on all available at the same time to hop back and forward, monitor, etc.
Nothing special about the mac here by the way - linux, windows just as capable of doing this.
And now Windoze 8 take us back to a windowless (DOS?) world where you do one thing at a time.
utter mince. you do wonder what they are smoking sometimes.
It seems like the dumbing down on tv, news, society has finally reached the OS.
Re: first concorde, now the UI (It is called Cargo -Cult)
MS and many people in the IT industry see the iPad and its big success overnight.
They do not understand why that toy computer is so successful, but they do want to succeed too, and it looks like they see a nice market opportunity.
Here read about cargo cult, change the natives for MS (and others, I'm looking at you GNOME!!!!) and the god's gifts for the iPad:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
Re: first concorde, now the UI (It is called Cargo -Cult)
It's hardly a cargo cult. The thing about Win8 and Metro is they are shaping up to be absolutely fantastic on mobile devices and tablets. The problem is the deployment of that GUI onto the Desktop.
Re: first concorde, now the UI (It is called Cargo -Cult)
"...The thing about Win8 and Metro is they are shaping up to be absolutely fantastic on mobile devices and tablets."
fan·tas·tic (fn-tstk) also fan·tas·ti·cal (-t-kl)
adj.
1. Quaint or strange in form, conception, or appearance.
2. Unrestrainedly fanciful; extravagant:
3. Bizarre, as in form or appearance; strange:
4. Based on or existing only in fantasy; unreal: fantastic ideas about her own superiority.
5. Wonderful or superb; remarkable:
1 out of 5 ain't bad...
Re: first concorde, now the UI
"It seems like the dumbing down on tv, news, society has finally reached the OS."
Now we have your full attention, you can watch these adverts too :-)
:eek
Sadly microsoft is pushing developers towards metro only apps.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/28/visual_studio_express_11_metro_only/
Unless they pay for VS, of course.
Microsoft is pushing amateur developers towards Metro only apps.
You're complicating it too much
We need to use more than one application simultaneously.
In the same way that a computer really doesn't run two apps at once but in sequence (I know multicore improves this, but it is not the point!, so shut up) we do not do two things at once, but alternate continuously from one app to another.
Some times we have evolved our daily routines as to use chains of tools in sequence, and some times, specially when things take a turn for the unexpected, we need to be able to show more than two windows/applications at the same time in our computers.
All was fine and dandy in computer-land until all the iPad cargo-cult started on the IT industry.
Check "cargo cult" in the wikipedia, you will understand a lot of how our modern world works.
Re: You're complicating it too much
Funny, I multitask on my iPad just fine.
And, oh wait...works like a hot damn on my Android-based transformer too.
Multi-view windowed multitasking: even Chromebooks can do it.
Metro?
*crickets*
Which is why Metro will not be for me. Right this very moment I'm monitoring Star Team as it chugs through a big upload (..oh, just finished..) whilst also tracking the progress of a related very large build that VS2008 is doing. My primary attention is on Chrome reading the article and (..VS just finished the build so pardon me if I just launch the app now..) now posting a comment. I also have three Remote Desktop windows open because it's a client/server app and I want to watch the logs and status on the server while exercising the clients.
Luckily my employers have only just got around to issuing me with a new machine so it'll be years before I have to worry about Win8. Maybe by then Microsoft will have pulled its head out of its arse. Either that or I'll be able to claim early retirement which is barely a decade away.
So you can only have 2 applications tiled at the same time?
WTF?
No, you can use the desktop and have as many as you like.
Bogus argument is bogus.
Re: Bogus argument
The article is about Metro. The clue is in the title.
Remember 'Bob'?
Shades of Bob.
Talk about dumbing down the interface.
Instead of screwing around with the User Interface, how about making Windows secure once and for all.
Probably because it's too hard and it's easier for MS to just continue patching the 3.1 code.
(not really but it sure seems that way sometimes).
Metro Apps
When you have a Metro App in the foreground, your previously opened Metro Apps go into sleep mode.
If your system requires more memory, sleeping Metro Apps are terminated without warning to release memory.
Re: Bogus argument
Are you suggesting that all of MS's server monitoring tools are going to be Metro apps?
The clue in the Task Manager. It most definitely is not a Metro app.
Re: Remember 'Bob'?
Instead of screwing around with the User Interface, how about making Windows secure once and for all.
Probably because it's too hard
That bit is the reason I downvoted you. No. Not "too hard". Try "absolutely impossible on any system to which executable programs can be added", you retard.
@hyper
IF your screen resolution matches the requirements. Even that is an issue these days; because being able to do this in 640x480 (for example; if you're doing rescue maintenance) is SO passe.
@dogged
Indeed, which is a problem by itself.
If you get stuck in Metro and hit control-alt-escape, guess where the task manager appears ?
In the desktop app, where you're not switching to because well.... you're stuck in Metro.
Such a wonderful design.
Re: @dogged
Why do you think you're stuck in Metro?
You haven't used it, have you? You've just listened to commentards. You're never "stuck in metro".
Jesus, don't pay attention to these people. They're morons.
Re: @dogged
"Why do you think you're stuck in Metro?"
I'm not saying you're stuck, if you /get/ stuck. I know reading tends to be hard, but come on here :-)
FYI: even metro applications can crash and even metro, as a whole, can stall. That's what I've been experiencing a few times when checking up the CP. As such: if you press control-alt-escape I know nothing happens because the task manager pops up in the desktop app. but since the desktop is now degraded to an app. and the task manager only supercedes everything on the desktop...
If you get stuck in Metro you remain stuck. Because MS has never bothered to think about a security line / option which is capable of superceding Metro.
Yet another disadvantage over plain Windows. And they keep stacking up.
Re: @dogged
Actually agree with most of your posts here, and I concede I am a moron sometimes. But ShellLuser is right on this one as it happened to me as well. I had a a Metro App crash on me and there was nothing I could do. It wasn't until ShellUser's post just now that I realized what was happening - that the TaskManager is appearing on Desktop but because the crash happened in a Metro App, it wont release the screen back to Desktop. Because Metro is a its own GUI (I think), the Task Manager wont appear over it. That's a problem. Hopefully something they've fixed for this preview. They need Ctrl+Alt+Del to bounce you back to the Desktop automatically.
Re: @dogged
"They need Ctrl+Alt+Del to bounce you back to the Desktop automatically." -- Try Alt+F4
Re: @dogged
Isn't the key combination Ctrl + Shift + Esc
Maybe that's why it's not working for you ;-)
Re: @dogged
Windows key + power button.
It's CTRL+ALT+DEL's new flavour.
My standard desktop use at work
I have one window open for mail, a second for monitoring a telemetry system, athird with Excel for cofiguring data and a forth for editing data in the telemetry system.
On top of this I could have IE open for data from the web plus CS5 as well. This is spread across 2 large monitors.
How the hell am I supposed to work with metro ?
MS have made it clear that windows 7 is the upgrade we will roll out at work and can't even think about windows 8 at all. This also means we will not bother with Windows RT for tablets but will support only iOS and Android for phones and tablets. BYOD again will not allow Windows RT.
Are MS really that stupid that they are cutting off companies from the windows upgrade route or will they see the light and sort this mess out ?
Re: My standard desktop use at work
Are MS really that stupid that they are cutting off companies from the windows upgrade route or will they see the light and sort this mess out ?
They are in a blind panic, running around like headless chickens. After using Office 2010 which I daily tried to fool myself into believing it was an upgrade I reverted back to 2003 and my productivity has soared, particularly because of the menu system as well as the appalling IMAP response times per email on Outlook 2010, like 5-10 seconds to delete an email. Even on the free Windows Live Mail client the delete is instantaneous. It's a known "design feature" and unlikely to be addressed. I could go on....
Re: My standard desktop use at work
I really do not understand all this blind panic among people who should know better.
Let's spell this out once and for all.
IT'S A LAUNCHER. YOUR DESKTOP IS STILL THERE. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE METRO APPS. YOUR TELEMETRY SYSTEM IS NOT A METRO APP. EXCEL IS NOT A METRO APP. CS5 IS NOT A METRO APP. YOUR WEB BROWSER OF CHOICE IS NOT A METRO APP (unless you chose IE10Metro and why the hell would you?).
UNLESS YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO USE A LAUNCHER, YOU'LL BE FINE.
fucksakes, people. The sky is not falling.
Re: My standard desktop use at work
So it sounds like you are saying Metro is totally fucking useless, just use the desktop.
More or less what everyone is saying. Or just stick with Windows 7 might be even better.
Re: My standard desktop use at work
So what is the point of Metro then?
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