Dad sues Apple for pushing cash-draining 'free' games at kids
An iPhone-owner whose daughter downloaded $200 (£125) worth of "Zombie Toxin" and "Gems" through in-app purchases on his iPhone has been allowed to pursue a class action suit against Apple for compensation of up to $5m (£3.1m). Garen Meguerian of Pennsylvania launched the class-action case against Apple in October 2011 after he …
This topic is closed for new posts.
Re: When will parents learn
To Bjorg:
So, you assume that those that agree with you have kids, and those that don't agree, don't have kids - none of the posts above yours stated that they didn't have kids.
I have two kids, and I've kept an eye on what they do - it's not that hard. And you don't have to pre-screen everything they do - it's easy to find reviews.
BTW, I upvoted those you disagreed with, and downvoted the one you agreed with - before I saw your post.
Re: >Do you have children?
She was really pissed off by Apple, not allowing to give her a way
to let her children download free apps without risking her money.
Give the child their own iTunes account and don't assign a credit card to it.
Or don't assign a credit card to your iTunes account, just add it when you make a purchase and remove it afterwards.
Granted there should be a way of specifying a card isn't to be stored and used for a single transaction only; however it is possible to remove it afterwards.
another alternative would be to give the child an iTunes gift card, say once a month with their pocket money on it. They can spend it on what they choose until it runs out.
Or a prepaid debit card such as this:
http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/prepaid/prepaid-card-faq.html
http://www.mastercard.co.uk/prepaid-card.html
(Don't have kids, but don't have a credit card assigned to my iTunes account either. Yes it's a faf, yes it's inconvenient, but it's not impossible.)
Re: When will parents learn
Yes I do, and there's no way they get my iTunes password. I suppose you give them your cash card and PIN and shoot them out the door or something.
The guy's a f***wit, simple.
Re: @Ken Hagan
I'm a parent, and I not only disagree with you, I think you're a BS artist who doesn't either have children or if they do, has no understanding of them.
Children need limits on behaviour, and it's up to you as the parent to supply and enforce reasonable limits. If you can't explain why buying expensive virtual goods in a game is not allowed, perhaps you should consider adopting out for the childs sake.
This is simple. First you can disable purchases in IOS as noted above; second don't give out your password, control their access (you give them free access to everything on the internet right ?), and third, have reasonable rules and enforce them.
Re: When will parents learn
Yes I do. Yes i did. Yes it worked and now my daughter runs an 18 location sleep lab facility and my son is a helicopter pilot. Maybe you just need a little instruction in parental responsibilities and parenting in general.
"I don't think this will go very far"
The freaks at thepiratebay.org said the same thing.
Re: When will parents learn
or is it that people have made the choice not to have children because they want to spend their time doing something other then raising children? if your doing it right its a full time job in itself , sure you can't watch them 24 hours a day but here is the thing don't bitch when your caught out.
we all got up to mischief as kids and either were corrected or not by parents/guardians in different ways. whats being said is if you are not prepared to do the pre-screening then don't let them use it. simple eh? just like why tv has a 9pm watershed if you let little billy stay up past 9 with a tv in his room then don't bitch when he watches "naked nuns shoot things and swear". don't campeign to ban violent video games (which have age certificates) because little billy took a bat to the grandma after playing GTA which the parents bought him "cos all the other kid have it and he whined until we did"
need i go on? oh and sure i will look back on this when i have kids actually wait. i don't feel the need to spawn and so will be spending my free time doing whatever the hell i want without having to worry if little suzie is racking up a credit card bill
Re: >Do you have children?
"""The whole point of the 'walled garden' app store is to protect the users."""
Such Innocence. The point of the 'walled garden' is to create a monopoly and which ensures that Apple always gets a cut from the loot whenever a scam goes down. It is a virtual country with taxes and laws, ruled by King Apple.
Besides, The point of the iPhone is to create a conduit between the consumers bank account and Apple - and to collect as much private information on the user as is technically possible, this can then also be sold in "the markit" - to the DHS, some rip-off scam mortgage vultures, Columbian death squads, who gives a toss - corporations can do anything as long as Uncle Sam gets his cut.
As long as the iPhone is shiny, new, people will want one regardless of the side effects. The crowd even like it when someone slips and falls into a trap that they managed to avoid, gives them that nice 20'something do-gooder smugness, it does.
Re: >Do you have children?
There is a way. Give them an iTunes account linked to a gift card rather than a credit card, then the financial risk is limited to the amount of credit left on the account. I do that, and there are no children with access to my fruity devices.
Re: When will parents learn
lolz...
i think i just did :-)
then again i was incredibly badly parented, by the kind of eejits who thought my upbringing was everyone elses responsibility.
hmmm, maybe that's where I'm coming from. stranger thing happen at sea.
Re: When will parents learn
It seems to me that this argument has relatively little to do with irresponsibility, either on the children's part or he parents'. The way these offers are framed by iTunes and Apple is merely a new version of the tried and tested gambit of selling drugs to schoolchildren. It's that easy, and that reprehensible.
Re: When will parents learn
I do have children and I let them use my iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad. However, I have taken the time to educate all 3 of my children ages 7 to 16 about in-app purchases. Furthermore, I configured all of my devices to block in-app purchases. Additionally, I have created iTunes accounts for my children that is NOT associated with a credit card. Anyone can do this. It is not rocket science. Mac user can install the Apple Configurator and Mac and Windows users can both use the iPhone Configuration Utility, a free download from Apple to configure many different security settings on all iOS devices. There is no excuse for not protecting your children, your devices and yourself. Shame of that father for not learning more about the technology he puts into the hands of his child.
Re: When will parents learn
You haven't created an Apple ID recently, have you? There is absolutely no need to provide credit card information or any other payment information to sign up for iTunes.
Nope, no sympathy. Just like these idiots who go abroad and then moan about big data bills. If it's her phone, more fool you, she's bloody nine. If it's yours, why are you letting her use it? Why does she have the password?
An iPod touch would be much better if she absolutely had to have something. But giving a nine year old any type of phone is ridiculous.
My 10 year old has had a phone for a couple of years now
He has a hand me down N95 - _NO_ _GAMES_ _WHATSOF***EVER_ since he was 9. It is a phone he can use in an emergency and we can use to get to him. He also knows how to use google maps, navigation and how to get to a specific point if he has to.
As a result I could let him and his 3 year old sister roam free on a holiday last week around the whole square mile or so of the holiday complex, chase peacocks, cats and other wildlife and play free. I could get to him at any time and he could get to us at any time. He also got at least some sense of how the world looked like before cretinous nanny state imbeciles from the "grow children in a glasshouse" societies made it a crime to give a 10 year old any responsibility.
It has been extremely handy when traveling too. It takes less than 3 seconds in downtown Paris or Prague for 10 people to get inbetween you and the kid and you cannot really put a 10 year old on a leash (or in my opinion you should not). And so on.
Re: My 10 year old has had a phone for a couple of years now
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Once upon a time an N95 was a pricey piece of premium kit.
It's interesting how expectations have changed - kids used to roam free like that long before mobile phones.
One thing I do know is that most parents hate retailers using their kids as a marketing lever. Parents have a hard enough time as it is without additional nagging from offspring. McDonalds got so good at it they're not allowed to advertise to children anymore in the UK. Freemiumware is a whole lot worse.
Re: My 10 year old has had a phone for a couple of years now
Quote: Oh how the mighty have fallen. Once upon a time an N95 was a pricey piece of premium kit.
Indeed.
Most families have a few of these "once was pricey piece of premium kit" and handing them down to junior is one of the best uses for them (after a thorough factory level wipe).
Re: My 10 year old has had a phone for a couple of years now
"Most families have a few of these "once was pricey piece of premium kit" and handing them down to junior is one of the best uses for them (after a thorough factory level wipe)."
Completely agree with that :) In my case I just hope that I'd have learnt enough about the mobile so as to be able to fend off the barrage of technical questions that would no doubt flood my way. Not so difficult with a 6310i, a touch harder with the N95...
Re: My 10 year old has had a phone for a couple of years now
Very similar. My daughter (11) has an LG GW620 on prepay. She gets a voucher per month. I remember cycling from wigan to manchester (some parts along the east lancs road too!) when I was 11 - obviously my parents had no idea I was ranging this far - but I had no issues. I knew the value of money from my paper round.
I do let my daughter have freedome to some extent (probably not the same as I had growing up) so children can be trusted *if* that trust is built up slowly. This lawsuit is foolish, the chap didnt have to give his daughter his password. She should have had their own itunes account. That is where it gets interesting as you need a fair amount of nonce to have functioning devices with multiple itunes accounts syncing the "family" music to various devices.
@Danny 14
Ditto. I'm 38 now, but at 10 I was catching the 35 Express bus from Leigh to Manchester for the princely sum of 10p, (or a point off my "Clippercard") to go spend my pocket money in the (old version) Arndale. I had no problems, my parents had no problems. 28 years later and the state the worlds in now, there's no way I'd let my 10 year old take a bus, well pretty much anywhere on his own. Sad state of affairs really!
Had similar experience...
Bought a fun game for my son so he could play on my phone - he knows not to go to the market place and buy stuff himself. However, within the game I didn't realise you could level up quicker buy purchasing credits using real money on daddy's credit card!! He obviously had no comprehension of this and happily bought stuff.. fortunately not much.
My fault for not 'vetting' the app properly but as it's aimed at kids I assumed it would be ok... Lesson learn't. Also, good trick is to disable the wifi and put it in aeroplane mode, just in case.
Re: Had similar experience...
My fault for not 'vetting' the app properly but as it's aimed at kids I assumed it would be ok...
Maybe once upon a time, a long time ago, but these days it seems that when a smartphone game is advertised as "aimed at children", that means it's a warning label.
Re: Had similar experience...
Same here. I remember when in app purchases first became available - I didn't know about them at the time. Downloaded a free app for my daughter to play on her iPod and within 15 minutes she had used £17 credit and run up a debt of £43 on her iTunes account - yes a debt.
I figured that her account was just prepay and didn't think for one moment that Apple/Clicknbuy would try to take money from an expired credit card I used several years earlier to verify the iTunes account.
Re: Had similar experience...
"My fault for not 'vetting' the app properly but as it's aimed at kids I assumed it would be ok... "
You don't have to say that it's your fault. Remember that these companies are out to screw as much money as possible from your credit card by any means possible. Currently it is legal for them to exploit the natural tendencies of your children, so they naturally have gone for that technique in a very big and profitable way. They're not the first industry sector to do that, and they won't be the last either.
Saying that it's your fault is absurd brand loyalty. Where is their loyalty to you, hmm? If they too really had your best interests at heart why don't they implement a scheme along the following lines?
Suppose freemium applications like this came with a partner app that a parent could have on their own phone. Every time little Johnny hits the buy button on his phone the app on the parent's phone would go beep and ask the parent it that would be OK. Simple to do and gives the parent complete control, every family member is (mostly) happy.
So why have the phone and app companies not done that? Surely they're imaginative people who've already thought along these lines and could see a way of implementing it for very little effort? Surely the technology to do this is a trivial matter in these days of instant data comms anywhere in the world?
Could it be because they know that it would result in less income for them? They would naturally be reluctant to even suggest that such an idea might be possible for fear that parents might start demanding it. Hell, maybe even the slow moving ass that is the law could get changed so as to require it. Disaster!
Brand loyalty, huh. Sell shiny, get whole bank accounts in return. It's a lot more rewarding than the accompanying fawning of bedazzled customers. They must be sniggering behind their backs all the way to other people's banks.
BTW I've no kids, so not a problem for me. I've written this for free out of the kindness of my own heart.
Re: Had similar experience...
Sorry, but he is right, it is his fault, for not checking.
He isn't the only one at fault and the real culprits should be strung up by their short and curlies, but it was his phone and his child, so he should have checked first.
That said, it was bad of Apple to let a pre-pay account go overdrawn!
Regardless of who is at fault, law makers, Apple, app developers, the parent and owner of the phone also have to take some responsibility.
Much as I hate these 'Bait' apps, this is another depressing instance of adults abdicating their parental responsibilities to Apple (or whoever).
At least this could never happen in a British court:
Prosecution: "...huge bucketfuls of Smurfberries"
Justice Frottingham-Smythe: "???"
No sympathy for either side.
Apple should have their arse nailed to the wall: the game is for a child. Children cannot have a credit card. Therefore the game has no justification for 'in-game' purchasing of any sort, even if Mummy or Daddy are daft enough to let Junior know the password.
But also parents are pillocks for not keeping a closer eye on things.
Re: No sympathy for either side.
Oh look, 2 seconds in a search engine brings up these results. Short answer: RTFM. The facility to disable in-app payments (among many other things) is already built right into iOS.
1. iOS devices are single-user devices. That's how they're designed. If you give a device with YOUR details on it, the onus is on YOU to secure it and prevent unauthorised interactions.
2. It's piss-easy to set up restrictions on ANY iOS device, as the link above proves.
Ergo, any parent not using such restrictions when giving their child access to an expensive, multi-hundred-dollar piece of consumer electronics with built-in internet access and credit card details linked to it, is, quite simply, an ignorant imbecile and fully deserves everything they get.
Apple have no valid reason to unilaterally ban in-app payments in kids' software: some kids have very wealthy parents and I'm sure you don't mind if Apple relieve said parents of some of their disposable income. Why should their precious little saint of a daughter, Quentina, not be allowed to play her game of MoneyTreeVille on her shiny new iPad?
Little sympathy for either side, but least for Apple.
Inclined to agree up to a point. It is very easy to criticise parents in a situation like this, but if Apple is deliberately using children in order to make money out of the imperfection of their parents then yes, they should 'have their arse nailed to the wall'.
I wish I were a perfect parent. My daughter knows my PIN number because she stands next to me in the shop. She knows my credit card number because she has eyes. And I want her to face decisions and learn to make them rather than have reality locked away. And I do not want her feeling I don't trust her.
So, personally, I hope Apple gets nailed over this, as I have no truck with any organisation that cynically preys on the weakness of others, especially children. This is quite clearly not a straightforward case of "Dad, can I buy this game for ten pounds?".
In-app purchases can be disabled by going Settings->General->Restrictions and setting In-App purchases to Off.
A lot of kids apps do seem to have in-app purchases, so I've disabled them to stop my 3 year old from buying anything by mistake.
I got half way down the comments before reading this, all the people on here claiming that people should look after their kids better should have posted what this guy did, instead of being a c*nt. Also, I don't have kids.
Wyrndness, you seem to be the smartest commentard around. Congratulations.... I think!
what should happen is You Should Not need your Debit or credit card to make an account on the Ipad/iphone, why do they require your details if your only going to be using free apps from the start(Android can do it I Hope Windows Phone Market is like Android Market way)
Free Apps should not require your Password to install
Trading Standards?
Ieexgx, you make me think Apple should be in breach of trading descriptions laws by calling it a smartphone... it should be described as "a device for debiting money from your credit card, that also can make phonecalls"
"In-app purchases can be disabled by going Settings->General->Restrictions and setting In-App purchases to Off."
And is there anything other than ignorance stopping offspring going Settings->General->Restrictions and setting In-App purchases to On?
I genuinely don't know, I don't have an iPhone.
Yes--when you enable restrictions, you need to set a four-digit passcode to be used when you make changes later.
The other thing that should be done, I believe, is to never give a credit card number to any services which provide their own "wallet." Purchasing gift cards and redeem codes means a much more limited amount of cash that can be spent. Someone cracked my account last year but only spent the $20 I had in it on random in-game currencies instead of however much they could have milked from my credit card; the same thing can be done for kids by giving them one gift card (with maybe $10) and creating an iTunes account with that.
This also has the added bonus of teaching kids the (very) basic concepts of financial responsibility by limiting their purchase choices. To be sure, it's not budget balancing, but at least they'll get the idea that sometimes you have to evaluate what you want more because you can't have it all, even if the money doesn't exist in "real life."
You don't need a credit or debit card to make an account.. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2534
You haven't for several years. My sister inherited my iPhone a couple of years back, and she doesn't have any credit or debit cards.
*Slight* sympathy ....
apps are getting more and more crafty at teasing credit card details out of people ... usually under the guise of "age verification".
It would be good if it made developers behave better
I'm tired of buying bait apps that are not obviously such. If it is free fine but I have a couple where I have paid for the app and it turns out not really to be playable without purchases. You have to check on the reviews and top in app purchases to get an idea.
While I'm not entirely happy that a parent can delegate their responsibility to Apple I do hope something makes them label the apps properly.
e.g. Labels are
No in app purchases available.
In app purchases enhance app experience but usable without.
Unplayable without in app purchases.
Stop with the "try parenting" comments
Nowhere is anyone saying that these kids have their own iPhone but many kids borrow their parents iPhone/pod/pad in order to play games. They are a good way to distract a child for a couple of hours. These games are a menace, but there is the ability to turn off in-app purchases (now? not sure if has been there long). Another alternative is buy the kid their own ipod/pad and tie to an AppleID that doesn't have a CC.
Those people who will then jump in with "blah you should engage with your child" or "you should always watch what your child is doing" need to fuck off. Or have children. Or borrow some. Sometimes parents have other things to do and actually can't spare the time.
What Apple really needs to do however is to make the iOS a multi-user OS. That way you wouldn't need one device per person, you just switch profiles.
/iwasoneofthosepeoplethenihadkids
/anonbecausethosepeoplearec*nts
Re: Stop with the "try parenting" comments
There's also the possibility of the kid being precocious and capable of figuring out Daddy's password and certain other details by discretely looking over his shoulder or whatever. In this fast-paced society, there are times when the kids can outsmart the parents because they know more about the tech in the devices. I know when I was 10 I had a better handle on how to program a VCR, and that was just for starters.
Re: Stop with the "try parenting" comments
And indeed - it is entirely possible that parents just don't know how to use all of the features of these devices. Remember - it's an iPhone, it "just works". Most ordinary folks just read enough of the manual to get going, then just actually use the devices.
All this "follow the maze of twisty menus, all alike" stuff is just TL;DR to most people.
So, I'm with the parent - shiny-shiny free app that looks like it is suitable for a kid (and 30 seconds over-the-shoulder doesn't reveal anything that a parent normally looks for - unmoderated chat, sweary stuff, unsuitable images, etc) you let them enjoy. The in-app purchase stuff is quite clearly a booby-trap.
I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years time here in the UK, the government or maybe the EU decides to deregulate paid-for the in game item market. Forget paying 4.99 for 50 Smurf berries, you can now buy 75 Tesco own brand Smurf berries for only 2.99!
Wouldn't surprise me at all if that sort of crazy crap happened as these in game purchases will probably be considered actual tangible "things" by then if they are not already.
We live in crazy times! I'm going to set myself up as a Smurf berry trader in the City. Mines the blue one with the red hat.
Not deregulate duh.... open it up to competition, whatever, I don't know, I post on the Register comments section for crying out loud I cant be expected to know what I'm actually talking about!
Your post brought a smile to my face until my thoughts meandered off and I wondered how long it'd be before some sort of virtual object tax was applied to in app purchases. I imagine it to be conjured up by some MP with no clue about technology and therefore the amount of tax applied is based on the perceived weight of the virtual object in the virtual world. Oh, and if it's coated in virtual chocolate it becomes a 'cyber-luxury' and will cost you extra.
You've got a great point! Pixel-pasty-gate they will call it! The Prime minister will make a fool of himself when he's caught out claiming to have brought a virtual pasty in Second Life only to be told that "game" dosnt exist any more having been acquired by FaceYahoogleMicroSonyAppleCorp and closed down to make way for more Smurf berry servers!
Dangerous
This style of purchase inducement in kids' apps provides a dangerously easy route for children to quite unwittingly cause their parents, and therefore maybe themselves, considerable distress. Even a nine year old will feel bad about having drained a parent's credit card inadvertently. And if that parent is an idiot, perhaps some admonishment might follow. It's as if Apple cared more about cash than the well-being of the children who use their devices to play kids' games.
>Much as I hate these 'Bait' apps, this is another depressing instance of adults abdicating their parental responsibilities to Apple (or whoever).<
Total bollocks.
Re: Dangerous
Never store your CC on the phone - always buy the Itunes cards for online redemption.
Call me paranoid - but it preserves my particular brand of sanity.
Re: Dangerous
"It's as if Apple cared more about cash"
No shit Sherlock, they've never cared about anything else, ever.
Re: Dangerous
i thought it not let you us the app store unless you have an Card linked to the account?
Re: Dangerous
Most places I know won't let you use a card to buy a card (the technique is used for money laundering), and if the card is pure credit rather than a debit card, taking out a cash advance to buy the card results in the inflated interest rate.
This topic is closed for new posts.
