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back to article Cellco execs lay into Nokia's Lumia

Major European mobile phone network operators reckon Nokia's Lumia smartphones simply aren't good enough to compete with the likes of Apple and Samsung. Four unnamed operators spoke out against the Finnish phone firm's Windows range, describing it as overpriced, plagued by battery issues and inadequately marketed, Reuters …

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Stop

Re: You left out the best quote

Isn't that what the non-Nokia stockholders here have been saying? An ICS version of the Lumia 900, with the bugs fixed would actually be reasonable mid-range Android handset.

However we need to wait for the next Burning Platform email before that happens. Nokia shareholders, rather than trying to convince the world that Windows Phone isn't shit (it is), you should be trying to get that ex-Microsoft parasite off the board....

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Stop

Re: You left out the best quote

Barry, I've got an HD7. I don't think it's shit.

You think WP7 is shit but you think every Microsoft have any hand in is shit, so your opinion is somewhat... tainted.

Your opinion isn't fact, neither is mine. Stating "it's shit" just makes you look stupid and bigoted. Stop it, please.

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FAIL

Re: You left out the best quote

Sorry, but that's bollocks. Whilst you may think that, it's not true.

Windows 7, is pretty damn good, their Office products are very good (despite their best efforts to ruin the UI), their developer tools are by far the best around.

You seem to be the fanboy, unable or unwilling to call out bad products like XBox360, Windows Phone and other "dogs" amongst the good Microsoft stuff.

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Meh

Re: You left out the best quote

Nothing broken about XBox 360 - it hasn't lost your user credentials, shut down its network for months at a time and doesn't come from a company that likes to rootkit you.

Some dogs, surely. KIN was a disaster. VB is still horrible. Sharepoint is essentially pointless. I hate all the extra shit that Office tries to install, although the base package of six applications is fine.

These days, though, in many respects MS seem like the best of a bad lot. Oracle? Java and the hatefulness of Oracle in general. Google? Forget it, those bastards already steal copyright wholesale while trying to sell your private life. Damned if I'll give them my data to sell. Apple? Lawyer-happy stealers of FOSS and revoltingly smug purveyors of overpriced, under-specced bling-toys for hipsters, no, I don't think so.

Even linux distros tend to be infected by Google these days, although you can prise my Debian servers from my cold, dead appendage of choice.

No, not a fanboy. Microsoft were always pretty evil and I don't doubt that they still are. However, it's a familiar evil, one that we3've all found our own workarounds for. The new evils smile wider and bite harder.

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Re: same hardware?

You miss the point. If the 900 used Android they wouldn't just put a physically larger screen on it, they'd bump the resolution to match and apps would just use the extra pixels.

What actually launched is little better than sticking a magnifying glass in front of a 710, "Brazil" style.

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Mushroom

Advertising budget

I don't think Nokia can be accused of skimping on the advertising budget, sadly for them WP7 is just not selling the phones for them.

Icon is the new burning platform.

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Anonymous Coward

@mikeyD85 "It's not hard to build a droid Nokia... get to it!"

Its not hard to do it. Its difficult to make money though.

Generally the people i see with Android devices fall into 3 catagories.

1. Tech heads, who want the latest superphone, and will have rooted it within 30 seconds.

2. People who want an iphone, but can't afford it, so get something cheaper.

3. Tightwads who want the cheapest thing possible.

I can't see how Nokia would compete on 1 or 3, and 2 has soo much choice, Nokia would need something exceptional. The current Lumia range is definitely not that.

So how would Nokia make money with Android?

Whereas on WP7, they are the only manufacturer actually bothered by the OS, and it shows from the reviews. Every review says if you want a WP7, buy a Nokia.

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Headmaster

Why is it hard to make money off Android?

Because I read it once on the internet is NOT an acceptable answer.

All OHA members are making money off Android handsets, even HTC. Their losses have not been attributed to any particular reason, but it coincidences perfectly with their lost Android focus when Microsoft forced them to tinker with Windows Phone.

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Megaphone

Where to start

1. Samsung is making plenty money from Android. Like Nokia it's a hardware company. Definitely doable.

2. My own anecdotal survey on the local public transport of what people are using has Samsung at around 75 % with I-Phones about 20 % and the rest. A year ago I would have said around 50 % I-Phones, Samsung slightly ahead of HTC and the rest. With the SII and it's gorgeously large screen Samsung really has cleaned up in the last few months. They're not cheap but they are popular. Skinflints can join in by being the cheaper versions which look like the real deal as long as you don't look at them too closely.

3. People are used to I-Phone and Android UIs - they're close enough that switching between them isn't difficult. Apple knows this which is why they're going so hard after Android. Tough for them that many people to seem to equate Android with a sort of generic version of the I-Phone. Viz. airport security generally refer to my Samsung Galaxy Tab as an I-Pad.

But really it comes down to Every review says if you want a WP7, buy a Nokia. Well, who really wants WP7? Where are the campaigns extolling the virtues of it? I've seen nothing apart from generous reviews on El Reg and elsewhere praising the Metro interface for phones. But I know that the browser is shit: any mobile browser must be able to handle HTML 5 forms to be any use; IE 9 can't.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why is it hard to make money off Android?

Because I read it once on the internet. Now grow up.

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Coffee/keyboard

lame attempt at categorizing users...

your categorization is incomplete, like most times when people start categorizing.

Category 4: People who got tired of being unable to carry a spare battery on the iPhone, lack of SD card slot.

Category 5: People who don't feel like having their hardware vendor dictate what they can and can not do on their phone, and who don't want to waste their time on an endless Jailbreak - update - wait - Jailbreak again cycle.

Category 6: People who just like widgets, who might even be happy with Microsoft's non customizable Windphone7, but have no reason to side-grade from Android, cause Android ICS is way ahead of Windphone OS, AND you can get better hardware for Android.

And here, we are back at Nokia: They used to be a hardware and software company with their own OS, which is a significant advantage Mr. Trojan Horse Elop just threw away. So now, Nokia is ONLY a hardware company.

One with nothing high end to show, except for a good camera concept.

If you have a great flagship product, like the Galaxy SII, the rest of your line starts selling better too, by association.

If Nokia - and by extension Microsoft want to get somewhere in the mobile market, they'd do well to build something for 2013 that can technically trounce whatever Samsung/Apple comes up with. Just being equal won't be enough.

So Micro$oft, you wanted your own Smartphone manufacturing bitch to give your mobile OS an in to the Market you carelessly squandered? So do get them to compete, or you will just have destroyed a great company in a very short time - for nothing.

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Facepalm

Should Nokia of taken Google on at their own game?

Imagine if Nokia had taken on Google way back when Android started by using their own code? Surely they wouldn't be in crap street like they are now?

No additional development costs on a custom architecture, fit the OS in what hardware they wanted (which they've been ace at), and fork it with their own GUI and App Store. Shame they fannied around trying to decide what their roadmap was going to be.

Surely if Nokia dumped Windows OS now, they'd be in just as much crap now in comparison to dying slowly with WP7?

@AC - 12:58 - Nokia could of made...

4. People who just want a phone that works and is trusted by a household telcoms name. Nokia were still that in 2006 before Android/iOS took their thunder.

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Anonymous Coward

Lumia not good enough to compete with Apple?

And yet everyone seemed to agree that the N9 and MeeGo-Harmattan was more than good enough to compete against Apple.

Such a shame Nokia, you'll end up going with Android now to stay afloat (assuming you are legally able, to with your watertight Microsoft contracts) when you had it all - but didn't want to know.

For this decision alone you deserve to go under, and you probably will.

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Holmes

What if?

Nobody's mentioned Blackberry OS on Nokia?

What's not to like? Nokia's reputation for hardware (if it hasn't died already), BB's corporate integration and appeal to the kiddies (something only RIM and Apple seem to have managed to any degree).

Marriage made in heaven?

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@barry shitpeas "but it coincidences perfectly with their lost Android focus when Microsoft forced them to tinker with Windows Phone."

Have you looked at the HTC WP7 range? They are basically just Android devices with a couple extra buttons. So theres little or no time on hardware design for WP7, just writing drivers, hardly enough to be "losing focus on Android".

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Anonymous Coward

@sproot

"Nobody's mentioned Blackberry OS on Nokia?"

Blackberry is great for business, but the OS is way behind iOS/Android, and thats why its failiing, it's very little to do with the Hardware.

I know my company only gave Blackberrys a while ago, but the security of iOS devices, and non-rooted Android devices means they can now be given out, combine that with the OS, and thats Blackberrys trump cards gone.

I think the only exceptional thing BBs have now, is the extra processing that happens both ends, to reduce the amount of actual data sent between device and Telco.

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Anonymous Coward

People still think "i" is cool. They are yesterday's people, tomorrows people are still only waking.

Doesn't help much for BB.

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Anonymous Coward

SHEEEEEEP

Most buyers are just TOTAL sheep, following each other inanely, “ooh look at my iPhone! It can do…, well anything any other phone can do really” URGH!

I think if people would stop thinking "Oh it's Windows" and give it a chance, they would be pleasantly surprised.

The UI is FAR more clean, intuitive and faster than either iOS or Droid. It really is simple to use requiring fewer "transactions" to achieve any task. It looks great too. Once Windows 8 is released and its adoption takes pace, win phone will stand a better chance.

Critics need to be far more specific about their gripes, I can't see fault in the OS and the Lumia900 looks the business, by design WAY AHEAD of iPhone which now looks dated and old fashioned. Not to mention the stigma of being seen with one. YIKES!

It will take another generation before people will realise and move on, only to jump on another band waggon.

iOS is old and decrepit in its comparison to win phone 7.5. Let’s face it, iPhone has had its day, let’s put the old dog out to rest and move forward.

But, for now, the sheep will continue to follow the sheep, BAAAAAAA!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: SHEEEEEEP

You may or may not have heard of Tomi Ahonen. I suggest you go read his latest blog. In it, he explains why Nokia still has a chance in the mobile market, and he also explains why Microsoft does not.

You can Google the link. (Incidentally I neither know nor care whether it appears on Bing.)

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Linux

Re: SHEEEEEEP

I'd love to know why you class iOS as "old". It certainly isn't with a refresh of features every 6 - 12 months and regular security updates (more so than RIM/Android in most instances).

Okay. It may have a GUI that steems a lot from the original iOS, but why break a winning formula? Just to satisfy for fandroid tendencies because it cannot be modified or ROM hacked to the extreme like Android/WP handsets?

I'd say quack to you =).

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Operators on the high-street not helping

Went into my local Vodafone store to actually try out the Lumia 800 rather than read reviews. Only the demo one they had was behind a counter and uncharged - this isn't helping when there's a working and charged iPhone on display for everybody and their kids to paw at.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Operators on the high-street not helping

Tomi Ahonen has explained that the operators are doing this absolutely deliberately, and why they are doing so.

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Meh

Wonder if they would be any good

If they had WebOs on them, rather than Windoze?

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