Re: All I had was a Z80 and a handful of switches

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Re: A rubber-keyed speccy?

"When I were a lad, we had to share one abacus between the whole school!"

Abacus? You were lucky. We had to do all our calculations in cuneiform.

Cuneiform? Luxury!

We used to use our fingers and toes. Of course, our evolution hadn't quite got to where it is now, so we didn't all have the same number each, and those we did have got bitten off by the local wildlife.

Re: Fingers and Toes?

Fingers and toes? We used to dream of being able to use our fingers and toes. We 'ad to work so hard down mill we were only able to perform calculations in our 'eads.

Your school had an abacus?

You were lucky. In my school, we were the abacus. The headmaster would slap us left and right across the classroom whenever he needed to work on the heating bill, payroll, rent we had to pay for the classroom, etc.

Of course you try telling ...

Re: Abacus

An Abacus he says....

Made from wood using fancy metal tools no doubt. Eeeh you don't know you're born.

All we had were some rocks and a sound thrashing, and we were glad of it.

RE: Re: Abacus

Eeeh, hark at it..

He should try living in the real world, we did our computing with nowt but a bit of mud to scrape about in.

Coming round here bragging about his la-d-dah special rocks.....

Re: Learning about computing

I have to agree.

The thing is, with school PCs they need to thoroughly lock down the OS (beyond even what you would see in a corporate environment) to stop kids (especially the clever ones) cocking it all up. I should know, I was one of those kids 15 years ago, and I was the one poking holes in the system until the IT tech realised and asked me (and my friends) to help close the holes (in return for more privileges etc).

So to encourage kids to do real stuff with computers, buy some of these (cheap as chips, if you'll excuse the pun) and let them do as they wish. If they screw it up, swap the SD card for a fresh install and it's working again, unless they have trashed the hardware, in which case they've lost £30 instead of £hundreds.

Re: for middle aged dads

Then try to teach your child what a 'proper' computer is. Learning to program with a limited amount of memory and processing power is a good thing which teaches good habits in coding. Many programmers these days could do with going back to basics to learn how to optimise their code rather than relying on masses of memory and disk space cos it's cheap.

Re: for middle aged dads

Very true about back to basics on memory use and processing, within reason.

Of course he knows computers come in all shapes and sizes which is why he was able to joke about 'proper' computers and ,most importantly, understand the humour in it.

No need to Actually I have been trying to teach him, most recently n86 registers using _asm in writing 'beat the compiler' embedded assembler in C++. Much easier in a modern development environment with visual debuggers etc. on an HD display than in the world of 1980s nostalgia.

Re: Then try to teach your child what a 'proper' computer is, etc...

yes. Whereas limited memory these days is changing varchars to something other than 50...

Re: Varchars...

then comes the phone call "how do I cast a date from a varchar as my cross join isnt working properly?" with the answer "by not using varchars for bloody everything"

Re: Don't look too much at the past

Have you actually tried EVE? Like programming computers today as opposed to yesterday, its just bloody impossible to keep the whole thing in your head at once.

Re: Don't look too much at the past

I intend to get one of these to look at the Past through my TV.... specifically MegaDrive, SNES, NES & Master system past...

Re: Don't look too much at the past

I have been begging the world for multiplayer Elite for years to no avail. I would almost literally kill for it to happen. Or possibly dump garbage on the edge of the solar system...

Might be a bit tight on memory for MythTV- there's an XBMC set up around though

Re: Blah blah blah

@James - yeah, it's a bit wank that RS have, at this point, sent out at least 4 updates about the Pi that all amount to "not yet, but soon. Ish." instead of just getting the $%^& on with shipping out the first batch and lining up the next lot.

I have to disagree with the closing part of the article though - part of the rationale for the Pi being cheap is to ensure that schools/students who *aren't* flush with cash can get their hands on a computer that they can use/tinker with/break and fix, and which is suitable for software and hardware hackery for those who are interested. Not to mention that it encourages pupils (and teachers!) to experiment beyond the confines of the world of "computers = Windows + Office".

Re: Blah blah blah

Would also be good for pupils interested in the Pi if comments on the topic didn't encourage use of crude language on message boards.

And therein lies the Raspi advantage

No need to lock down - if you break it, re-image the SD card. Sorted.

As for your quality of teacher - that's a different kettle of fish.

Re: And therein lies the Raspi advantage

Sadly this is where it's all going to end in disaster...

*The quality of folk teaching IT at schools... *

The quality of folk teaching IT at schools...

A serious problem and one that looks hard to solve while the teaching of IT remains less lucrative than even quite a low level of doing it.

Perhaps instead of paying a teacher's salary to a useless lump of meat to act as classroom monitor while pupils tit about to whatever degree they can get away with we ought to be looking at an IT solution* to this problem and having an on-line / automated teaching setup.

*I assume the economic solution of paying IT teachers (good ones, not the majority of current ones) a competitive salary is a non-starter.

Re: Its not just about programming

You or I may be able to do this to our own...

But do you really think that any of the current crop of IT teachers in schools would have the first clue about how any of what you listed works?

At least my lot were useless, I remember my first "lesson", the guy spent 45 minutes showing us how to insert a floppy disk the right way... FFS...

Re: Its not just about programming

Well not 'today' as they've probably not been allowed to discuss User accounts and permissions on the locked down PCs. And the course materials probably dont cover it. They'll be discussing the 'finer' points of Office, Paint, how to 'tripe' with Mavis Beacon or whatever the current thing is.

But thats why the foundation was set up, to break out of that dreadful content.

Jumping kids into programming may only appeal to a small number, but some CSI style computer security and hacking? Or networking up with their mates? Skynet-eque grid computing?

Once someone else has built some tools, someone else has decided on a curriculum content, someone else builds some coursework and exams. It THEN starts to make real difference, today? Not so much. Next years new student intake? more so.

Re: Its not just about programming

Yeah this is all true. Hopefully this will work and we'll end up with "IT" teachers who know something about computers (beyond how to use MS Word)

I remember being thrown out of a computer lesson once (this was using Archimedes, would be about 15-20 years ago). The teacher asked what a RAM disk was. I answered that it was a virtual disk emulated in the computer's RAM. Her reply?

"No, it's Random Access Memory."

When I argued, I was thrown out. From then I decided to keep my mouth shut, do the work, and learn the real stuff about computers on my own.

Re: Pre-ordered boards

Same here with RS, however did the same with Farnell and have ordered one. Don't think it's going to be the first batch, though, but at least the order is placed.

Still trying to decide what to do with it though.

Re: Supply Chain Preparation

The Pi has my attention, but I also note that it's heavily supply-constrained. If someone else can start mass-producing a similar device at a comparable price, only with better supply, this company could undercut Raspberry.

I personally find the concept of the Pi very intriguing. I've always been fond of repurposing cheap older computers. A couple of P4s around the house are now working as nice XBMC boxes (they struggle at 1080p but look great with just about anything else). From what I've read, although the CPU's a little on the slow side, it's backed up by a good multimedia GPU. The XBMC team are definitely looking at this, too, so who knows? A DLNA media player for $30 or so sounds like a winner.

And that's just one of the possibilities. If the computer itself is a little much, perhaps make it emulate one of the old classics. That should bring back memories of the ol' Speccy, Micro, Apple, or Commodore, or whatever you used back then (me, it was a Commodore 128).

Re: Supply Chain Preparation

If anyone can start producing similar devices at a comparable price, they should go for it (and the Raspi foundation will welcome it). By the time you have designed and tested it of course, the Raspi will be in full production. And of course, the Foundation has no profit motive, which may dissuade /prevent competitors getting to the same price levels.