Feeds

back to article Why Windows 8 server is a game-changer

Windows Server "8" beta is out, and everyone reading this should sit up and take notice. This isn't a boring iteration on a previous server operating system wherein a few tweaks have been achieved and nothing really changes. Server 8 - along with the suite of associated 2012-ish server applications - is nothing short of a …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Re: seems a bit arse about face to me

What he said was "to get actual work done". He didn't say anything about a fast UI, which has got nothing to do with actual work.

A lot of us actually do real work on Linux "desktops", without being "geeks" (WTF?!), or without being involved in "Linux mgmt". In the (Electronic and Software) engineering world, an awful lot of people either (a) run a Linux desktop, or (b) run an X server from Windows to a Linux box (what I do), or (increasingly, and perhaps surprisingly) run Linux on a hypervisor on Windows. And I'm prepared to bet that a *lot* more people do this than run Linux servers.

@Trevor: well, Ok, I guess you do make some sense after all :)

Apart from Bing.

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: seems a bit arse about face to me

Erm...think you need your sarcasm radar testing mate

1
0
Silver badge

Re: seems a bit arse about face to me

"A lot of us actually do real work on Linux "desktops""

Ditto in science

1
0

Re: seems a bit arse about face to me

Research in Motion has squandered the blackberry empire, though that corpse is still twitching.

And SCO still isn’t dead yet.

Are you saying RIM is as dead as SCO?

OMG. Mate you're priceless.

0
1
Gold badge

Re: seems a bit arse about face to me

For eveyrthing except searching Microsoft properties (technet, MSDN, MVA, Microsoft.com, etc.) Bing returns (on average) better results to me than Google. I noticed this started happening about 8 months ago.

So now I use Bing. *shrug*

0
0

Re: seems a bit arse about face to me

Levente Szileszky wrote:

"No offense but unless you are into some Mac-only (cr)application I am really not sure what kind of work you could do faster on a such an ass-backward GUI like OS X - I think Windows 7 is probably the fastest EVER generalist UI to get any work done.

And linux as a desktop... seriously?"

Ah yes. What horrors one must endure on the Linux desktop. Virtual desktops, middle-click paste, configurable fonts, configurable keyboard shortcuts, focus follows mouse, universal run&search dialog, multitudes of scripting options, an actually functional CLI, window management that doesn't completely break down after opening more that 2 windows, ssh and other remote protocols built into the system, session management that opens up all your applications on login so you can pick up exactly where you left off yesterday, and the list goes on.

It truly is a horrible environment for getting real work done.

1
0
Linux

Re: seems a bit arse about face to me

Don, Don, Don -- he was being sarcastic. Look at the title.

And I don't know who your example site is, but it really sounds like a lot of FUD. It sounds like you're talking about the Linux of 10-20 years ago -- nonsense about a lack of stability? Puh-lease.

We've had a solid experience with Linux, which runs on almost all of our 362 servers (and growing). Those are mostly physical servers -- not virts.

And when Win7 came along, I started playing with it on my Fedora desktop in kvm virts, using virt-manager. I've seen Win8, and I'm installing Win8S in another virt, just to see how "open" it really is. I've had my hopes dashed by MS before, so I'm not getting my hopes up -- but I'll give it a fair look.

Heck, I've even run Win7 on my bare hardware, just to run Duke Nukem 4-Ever. The gentleman is right: the IT world _is_ upside-down in some ways -- because if they can finally release DN4E, maybe MS will stop playing games and get it right this time.

1
0

This post has been deleted by its author

Bronze badge
WTF?

Re: Windows 7 is probably the fastest EVER generalist UI

Sorry but this is just FUD, nothing else. W7 will be available for YEARS, I bet anything or MS will quickly kill itself.

FYI you can still buy XP for cheap if you want and if you have bought a retail boxed one it you can still install it on anything..

0
0
Gold badge
Pint

Re: Windows 7 is probably the fastest EVER generalist UI

Windows 7 will not be available for years. Downgrade rights applicable to OEM copies of Windows 8 will face the same sorts of time restrictions that Windows 7 did. OEM copies of Windows 7 will cease more or less at the same time as Windows 8, and retail Windows 7 will dry up soon thereafter.

Large corporates with SA agreements will be able to downgrade, but that doesn't let Joe Bloggs who bought a Dell at Future Shop turn his computer into something that allows basic functionality like multitasking. (Well, more than 33/66 two-tile side-by-side, anyways!)

Smaller businesses who can't afford SA - ones for whom the purchase of the raw hardware with the OEM sticker is already a major expenditure - are pretty much boned here too. They won’t be seeing “years” of Windows 7 availability.

That’s okay. Windows simply isn’t necessary for them anymore anyways.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Impressive...

... how this company manages to elicit gushing blogfawnery by... promising to do what everyone else has been doing for ages. Sorry to see Trevor is such a fanboi he in fact needs his vendor to go the CLI way to start and "change his way of thinking" toward what us greybeards* have understood and loved for... longer than many a reader has been alive.

This really doesn't tell me why I should bother with the latest bunch of reinvented wheels from a vendor well-known for curvilinearly-challenged reinvented wheels, when my existing collection is well-tended, well-understood, well-regulated, and in fact is looking pretty spiffy. Why a gui-addict would try? To reap benefits that also can be had shelling yet more enterprise-y dosh to expensive consultants and third party sofware vendors? There's enough of those that you needn't exect yourself. All that it's told me is that Trevor's wanted to try this unix thing but really didn't dare lest his vendor would frown on it. Now that there's something like it with his own vendor's special sauce on it, we get to read something that can cause caries over the internet. You sure you didn't get paid for writing this piece of adpinion?

* Disclaimer: Writer may neither be grey nor sport a beard IRL.

31
21
Silver badge

Re: Impressive...

bitter much? Maybe you should retire, things are changing and it's obviously upsetting you...

9
2
Happy

Re: Impressive...

I disagree with what you say but I love the way you said it :)

2
0

Re: Impressive...

Well - Trevor does have a way of getting overly excited about stuff before actually delving deep enough into said product or feature. Just the fact that he keeps on repeating "the way it was explained to me" is quite telling. I'd rather prefer a review from somebody who sweated over a product for a good while longer before passing on a verdict - not just clicking few buttons and believing what's been told to them - so they can quickly move on to reviewing some other "greatest and latest". But maybe that's just me.

2
1
Gold badge

Re: Impressive...

Don't know about you, but when I tend to do silly things like ask the folks who made the software I'm using "why did you do this?" Especially when after long sessions of "sweating over a product." Experience has taught me that as valuable as "figuring it out for yourself" can be, having the logic behind an application explained to you can save a great deal of time.

Even better is taking the time out to do both. That's why I didn't write up my reviews of Windows 8 and Server 8 the day the betas dropped. I spent a week breaking them repeatedly. But yes: "the way it was explained to me," by the good folks who make the thing. So that I am not making assumptions based on nothing more than cynicism and personal prejudice.

I’m funny that way.

Oh, and as to the "latest and greatest" jibe...I suspect you'd get a good laugh from most people who know me at all, sir. I am about as anti-"new because it is new" as a person can possibly get. To level that particular accusation at an individual known for their "get of my goddamned lawn" attitude about nearly everything demonstrates noting excepting a lack of research on your part, sir.

I stand by the hard work and research I’ve done regarding Server 8. It is a damned fine product. Frankly, that’s not something I can say about too many things these days.

6
0
Pint

Re: Impressive...

Congratulations. It's difficult for an AC to earn an upvote from me. Well said, Sir or Madam, as the case may be. And I DO have a gold and silver beard (but pure golden moustache and hair so far).

0
1
Silver badge
WTF?

Re: bitter much?

"things are changing"

If you think the long term future of computing involves dominance by MS products then I suggest you get a job flipping burgers.

1
1
Linux

Re: Impressive...

Did it play well with cygwin?

0
0
Bronze badge

For a moment, I almost felt..

Humbled...

But, money is the real game-changer. And, no matter how much MS, Apple, or others have in the bank, depletion will change their game if they are "too open"... Just let there be a surge of 12% upwards in Linux users disclosed to be attaching to MS' open servers....

But, we'll see. Maybe I'll be humbled after all...

1
0
Gold badge
Pint

Re: For a moment, I almost felt..

Over 30% of my clients base have made firm commitments to Apple desktops for thier next enterprise refresh, backed by a fleet of the Microsoft Servers. The rest are still evaluating, but Windows 8 is finding zero support so far. Several are quite impressed by Mint, and I suspect that before the month is out, I will have my first signed contract for a Linux Mint desktop deployment with a Microsoft server backend.

The times, they are a-changing...

1
0
Silver badge
FAIL

@Trevor_Potts

Something I don't understand here.

I would like to see the business case for Apple Desktops. Are they being used in conjunction with Parallels in order to run XP/W7, if so then whats the point of paying "way over the top" for hardware, what is the added value for the company.

Windows 8 is not even in an RTM stage, so what exactly are they evaluating, a beta version within an enterprise environment , you must be joking right. It will be quite some time before any serious company rolls out W8 Server into production. if anything you might just have some techies checking out W8 for their personal pleasure, which is completely understandable..

What does impressed by mint mean exactly, thats a very vague statement. If anything a company would be impressed by an application not by an OS. Or is this just a case of trying to win a contract on the false basis of the OS being "cheaper in the short term".

On top of that the possibilty to use Linux in the work place has existed for many years, so what exactly is a-changing.

There is a vague smell of "matière fècale" in the air.

5
4
Gold badge

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

The business case for Apple is the same as that for Microsoft back in the day: it was what users were familiar with, and that familiarity increased productivity. As to using Parallels to run XP/W7, no...nobody sees the need. A couple of shops are going to stick to an App-V implementation for a little while (to run their few remaining legacy Windows-based applications,) but expect that this will be gone in 3 years.

Outside of a rapidly dwindling list of companies, there simply isn’t a need for Microsoft-based desktops any more. They are an option, but they are not a requirement.

As to people evaluating Windows 8...believe it or not, there are non-techies who take the time to do such things. Particularly when the company they own is running on some fairly old hardware. Old enough they recognize the absolute requirement to upgrade in the next 12 months, as equipment failure rates are starting to get out of control.

At that point, taking a boo at Windows 8 makes sense; it gives these folks a sense of where Microsoft is going. What Microsoft's vision and plans are: how committing to the Microsoft ecosystem will shake out over the next 3-5 years.

You can make all the bold statements you wish about how “real companies behave according to your personal prejudices,” but the real world is ever so much more intricately faceted than all that. A 50-seat company looking to do a complete replacement of its entire desktop rollout is probably looking at a significant capital expense to do so. They also are not likely to be the folks replacing on a 3 year rotation, as per propaganda. (Indeed, at least one of these organizations are replacing Pentium III workstations running Windows XP.)

Shockingly, these sorts of people fret about things like “ROI,” and “TCO.” They care about the likelihood of getting kneecapped or sideswiped 3, 5 and 10 years from now. They have their own take on how the tech industry has shaken out…and they don’t get given any door prizes at any conferences.

So yes, in the real world I am seeing lots of people moving towards Apple desktops in the enterprise. I am seeing people looking at Mint and saying “that looks more usable than a lot of things, especially when we use LibreOffice, VDI and cloud-based services to do everything.”

At the end of the day, I don’t care what my clients use for their desktop. I am happy to support their business in any way I can. I will take the time to do needs assessments, go back to my lab, bash together a few demos and take the time to explain the pros and cons of each. When asked my opinion, I give it…but I will not blithely adhere to any form of propaganda. I will take into consideration the needs of the specific company and give them a recommendation based upon those needs.

For some, that is Apple. For some that is Linux. For most small (<15 bodies) businesses that is “BYOD, use cloud services.”

Funnily enough, I get a great response from approaching my customers with an attitude of “let’s see what fits your business best” rather than “this is the software that real businesses uses, alter your business practices to suit.”

12
3

Re: For a moment, I almost felt..

"I will have my first signed contract for a Linux Mint desktop deployment with a Microsoft server backend."

Good lord. I wish you joy of it. Should keep you employed for a while...

1
1
Silver badge

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

"Outside of a rapidly dwindling list of companies, there simply isn’t a need for Microsoft-based desktops any more. They are an option, but they are not a requirement."

I think this is probably the most significant result of the iPhone/iPad/Android market of recent years, a lot of people (i.e. beyond the geeks trawling and trolling these boards) now realise that Windows is *not* the be-all and end-all of personal computing, for some things they are way nicer, and ultimately choice is good.

I certainly applaud your approach to assisting companies with thier IT needs.

Myself, I don't see much reason for Windows server unless you have important windows-only stuff, so I embrace the penguin instead. I just wish Ubuntu had not lost its mind with Unity :(

And if I had a wish list, then MS doing a non-ribbon Office suite for Linux would be it - I would pay £100-200 for it working properly. Oh, look! There is a unicorn outside my window!

2
1
Gold badge
Pint

Re: For a moment, I almost felt..

Um...the company I personally own runs MS server backend (Server 2008 R2, Hyper-V, VDI, App-V, SQL server, Exchange - as a local synchronisation point for Google provisioned mail - and Forefront.) Email/office/collaboration provided by Google and BYOD desktops consisting of Windows XP, 7 and 8, Fedora 16 + Cinnamon, Mint, Apple, Android and several mobile devices.

Web services are CentOS 6.2 (or in the process of being migrated to CentOS 6.2) running on top of those Hyper-V servers, and they are quite happy, thank you. Planet Telecom provides me a hosted Asterisk solution to which I plug in my OpenFire server for unified communications. Wireless gear is Netgear WNDR3700 V2 access points running OpenWRT, and the edge systems are Intel Atom boxes running CentOS 6.2.

Everything Just works, doesn't give me a lick of grief, and I've never had an easier time running any network in my entire life. I don't get what the big deal is about heterogeneous environments. I’ve been supporting them for almost a decade now, in the real world. I find them easier than trying to put up with the weaknesses of one company’s offerings just so that you can get a discount on the products they do well.

Get the thing that does the job well, with the requirement that it play nice with others. Assemble all the various bits together, use standards and open protocols. 10 years ago? Pain in the ass that probably wouldn’t work. Today?

Business as usual.

3
0
Gold badge

Re: I don't see much reason for Windows server

I know that a bunch of die-hard *nix folks will say very mean things, but here's the whole truth of the matter: because it is the best damned operating system on the market for a number of different usage cases.

I use Linux, Unix and even Apple server when and where they make sense. But where I spend the early 2000s pushing Linux as the best server platform available, MS has today taken that crown. It might not be something a lot of people like to hear, but I do suspect they haven't actually given the thing a fair chance in the past 5+ years. Server 2003 was a good OS. 2003 R2 was fscking gorgeous. 2008 was pants, but 2008 R2 is a sexy, sexy girl.

From what I have seen of Server 8, the desktop UI is shite-on-a-stick, but hot damn that OS does the thing, and does it well. I can forgive the stupid iOS wannabe interface, because it is simply so very fit for purpose.

Understand me here: I am not a Microsoft fanboi. I am not rich enough to be a Microsoft fanboy. The truth of the matter is that in a lot of cases I cannot afford their stuff, and neither can my customers. Open source fills the role in most areas quite nicely.

But there are usage cases where it makes abundant sense to find the money, and to put up with the ridiculous, intrusive and time consuming “licenceing audits” that are now mandatory for all volume licensed shops in Canada.

I loathe Microsoft’s licensing shenanigans. I abhor most of their business practices. I think that their attitude towards end users is appalling, and I hate that they take 2-3 years to offer technologies that other people have had on the market for ages.

But when Microsoft finally gets its crap together and incorporates things into their server OSes…they generally work. What’s more, they are easier to use and understand (in most cases) than the equivalents offered by others.

That’s Microsoft’s schtick. They are second best. Firmly, entrenched, unashamedly. But there is a great deal of money in not pushing the boundaries of everything all the time. They let other companies pioneer the technologies, fall on their faces trying to make those same technologies comprehensible, then implement their own version with a usable interface and good documentation.

Is Windows Server the best, most advanced operating system for any given technology? No. But you know what? Taken together, as a package, it is the most reliable, robust, stable and easy-to-use server package available on the market today. It is feature rich, it is interoperable with just about everything, it complies with every standard I care about, and it comes with great enterprise-level support.

To me, that makes it the best server operating system for a huge number of circumstances. Specifically those in which I want to put something in place, remotely administer it, but still give the client some ability to make changes on their own. (For example, most of my customers are quite adept at creating users in AD, managing shares, etc.)

That way I don’t waste my time on piddly little crap, and can concentrate on real problems that other people can’t reasonably solve without 10 years of experience.

Mind you, I also use Webmin for my *nix server religiously, and find my customers love it too…

6
4
Bronze badge

Re: For a moment, I almost felt..

> Linux ... desktop ... Microsoft server

Have I just entered the twilight zone?

0
0
IT Angle

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

Whilst I find your other comments laudable, I'm hazarding a guess that you're very much underplaying the application compatibility issue here. Most clients I suspect haven't got only a "few remaining Legacy Windows-based applications". They may be using different delivery methods to move the dependancy away from the desktop but HTML 5 apps all around isn't quite there yet? I'd be interested to see if El Reg have any stats to substantiate this statement - quite willing to be proven wrong. :)

2
0
Gold badge

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

It's an article I'm working on, to be honest. But I think the numbers (especially in SMBs) that are moving away from traditional x86 software would surprise you. The Register for example, is almost entirely run using cloud-based services.

And it isn’t simply a question of “cloud based.” Lots of applications are cross platform. Microsoft Office – as one example – has a Mac version. LibreOffice works on all sorts of things. So on and so forth.

Additionally, lots of companies are porting software to Apple. Those Win32 apps you might still need…use App-V or – at worst – VDI. Start investing the money in moving your data out of these backwards applications and into something that offers more choice.

It won’t work for everyone. Some companies legitimately have industry-specific software that is now and will forever be Windows-based. But the lock-in isn’t nearly as strong – or as all encompassing widespread – as it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

What I would like to see is not just a survey of “how many admins feel they could live without Windows,” but a right proper Freeform Dynamics uber survey that looks at the size of the organisations, the age of the organisations etc.

Start ups for example don’t tend to get trapped into that kind of legacy. And I suspect that larger organisations are far more likely to have a collections of applications that intuitional inertia doesn’t allow them to ditch.

But it all starts somewhere. My clients are predominantly SMEs. And here there is a remarkable movement away from MS on the desktop. More so than I would have thought possible even two years ago.

1
1
Headmaster

Re: @Trevor_Potts

You insolant little mote of poop. Yes, you failed.

It's "Matière Fécale"

1
0

Re: For a moment, I almost felt..

You do realise the article is about Windows 8 Server and not Desktop, right?

0
0
FAIL

Apple in the enterprise

"Over 30% of my clients base have made firm commitments to Apple desktops for thier next enterprise refresh,"

Who in its right mind woul decide to buy premium-priced home computers (which is what Macs are, unless they are buying Mac Pros) which zero remote management capabilities, from a vendor that has zero enterprise-class support offerings and which is known for high price levels and an astonishing inflexibility when it comes recitifing one of the many flaws in its many products?

Today's Macs are home computers. The only exception might be the Mac Pro, but especially the single processor variant is so overpriced that it's beyond insane (the dual processor version isn't that badly priced, but lacks the capabilities and the expandability which can be found in workstations from other vendors which cost around the same).

Mac OS X (sorry, 'OS X' as it's now called) is clearly aimed at consumers and their iOS toys and not at businesses. The short product cycles and Apple stinkin attitude towards security are a nightmare in every enterprise environment.

Seriously, unless applications which are only available for Mac are actually required then buying a Mac for an enterprise is plain stupid. Aside from the issue that it easily can be interpreted as your company being wasteful and overpaid by your clients.

Says someone who is a Mac user since 1993.

1
1

Re: I don't see much reason for Windows server

Love this tirade!

Thank-you for saying this. I was specifically looking through here for this defense. I agree with you on the Windows Server being a rock solid OS. It handles things and doesn't fall over. Years of working with Enterprise customers have helped Microsoft develop a Server product that is simply impressive, and I think it is cool that they are ditching the eye candy desktop for a more embedded, API driven, and virtualized future.

0
0
Gold badge
Facepalm

Re: Apple in the enterprise

"Who in its right mind..."

Photographers mostly. 3D render types, video editing types and every single graphic design anything I have ever run across. There is a strong loyalty to Apple amongst this group that I cannot even begin to understand. There is also a persistent sense amongst them (fuelled I suspect by trade magazines) that "Apple is what everyone else who does X uses."

But for all the flapping about “Macs are toys,” the things can and do participate in an enterprise network quite well.

Especially if you aren’t a died-in-the-wool GUI admin who is terrified of a little scripting and some command line. Puppet works great for enterprise Mac deployments. Windows provides stable servers that the onsite tech can use for minor updates and change. (Although I am starting to deploy more CentOS with Webmin, as people become less afraid of web-based management tools.)

So frankly, I don’t see the issue. If you want Mac on the desktop…fine. I can support that. I have the tools available to me to manage Apple desktops. Those same tools (or similar) can be used to support Windows, Linux or anything else you want.

The better question is “who in their right mind” gets religious about computers for $deity’s sake? Some folks need to get laid, methinks. It's a tool. I don't exactly see the comments section on my local Rona filled with jihads over the details of various different hammers...

0
1
Bronze badge
Devil

Re: Apple in the enterprise

"Photographers mostly. 3D render types, video editing types and every single graphic design anything I have ever run across. There is a strong loyalty to Apple amongst this group that I cannot even begin to understand. There is also a persistent sense amongst them (fuelled I suspect by trade magazines) that "Apple is what everyone else who does X uses.""

Whoooah, Mr Pott, now you have surprised me - you are a lot more clueless than I assumed...

...this kind of sophomoric nonsense about Macs and "graphic design" and "video editing types" is really hilarious. Thanks for the fun though.

FYI there is an old joke out there that "Macs are better for Photoshop"...

...and yes, it's a joke, even among faithful Mac users because even they know it's utter BS.

Oh and my ~60 illustrators, compositors, high-end 3D animators, medical visualizers, volumetric renderers, layout/UI designers, web and software developers + 2 Avid Nitris DX suites + our entire render farm...ALL of them running Windows 7 on Precision T3500/7500 WS and say hi to you! :)

0
0
(Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

Levente Szilesky - courtesy makes the world go round

Trevor is perfectly capable of speaking for himself.

But's what with the ad homs? A bit of civility, please.

0
0
Bronze badge
FAIL

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

"But I think the numbers (especially in SMBs) that are moving away from traditional x86 software would surprise you. The Register for example, is almost entirely run using cloud-based services"

You realize that you are NOT making any sense here, right?

Or just having hard time understanding that those "cloud-based services" (sic!) are still running on x86 or that running a website never been a desktop OS function at any company?

Seriously, it's about time to get out of that survey-, PR- and other BS-based bubble of yours and start reading forums, talking to people etc.

0
0
Bronze badge
WTF?

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

"Outside of a rapidly dwindling list of companies, there simply isn’t a need for Microsoft-based desktops any more. They are an option, but they are not a requirement."

Aye, iPads for everyone.

Or is it Apple, the world's biggest PC maker? (I kid you not, some Appletard was seriously arguing this a year ago: http://blogs.computerworld.com/17986/apple_to_dominate_pc_market_in_2011_estimates_show)

I guess that's why PC shipments are more-or-less continuously growing for a decade now, with Mac sales still stagnating at single-digit market share?

No offense but have you ever had a proper job yet? (And, no, journalist is not a proper one, I've been a journalist for several years, I know it is not.:P)

FYI there are COUNTLESS jobs you cannot do without a desktop or a laptop. Seriously, there are LOTS of 'em.

Mr Pott, I understand that you are some Mac user and you are excited about things that you haven't even tried yet but pleahhhhse...

...I expect *some* knowledge and facts here, if I want to read utter BS hyperboles about the Jobsian 'post-PC world' then I will go and check out some idiotic Mac-enthusiast site. Thank you.

0
0
Gold badge
Pint

Re: Apple in the enterprise

I have plenty of Windows photography clients. I have some Mac photography clients. The Windows ones are almost all universally moving to Mac. Not at any urging of mine; but of their own volition, after examining the alternatives for themselves.

So I have to ask; who are you? What are your credentials? What makes your personal experience, your anecdotes, your bold assertions backed by nothing all so without flaw? Why should anyone believe what you have to say? Especially when you make several repeated errors and assumptions in your posts, ones that could have been avoided by simply reading this very thread?

To top it off, instead of cogent arguments backed by statistics, science, surveys, or…anything, really…you supplement your case with vigorous ad hominem attacks.

You have done nothing but severely harm your own credibility. I will continue to provide my customers with the services they request. From my large render farm clients, to photographers; consulates to bakeries. Straight through to the hosting companies and colo facilities I consult with.

Individuals and organisations will continue to examine the options, and choose that which is the best fit. Be that Windows, Linux...or even Mac.

In the meantime, go get yourself a pint. You seem a little worked up.

0
0
Gold badge
Pint

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

Script-based software (as with most HTML 5 applications) is not x86 in nature. It can run on any architecture for which all the apps to process it exist. I have several ARM servers, customers of mine have deployed SPARC and Power infrastructure.

In addition: I did say “traditional x86 applications.” As in client server, client must be Windows-based, lots of configuration information, etc. lives on the client, etc.

More and more, for any locally-installed apps, I am seeing deployments where

A) the app exists across a broad range of platforms

B) the config and all the data live in the cloud. (Private, public, or a mix.)

That makes “what operating system you run on your desktop” functionally irrelevant. Every year we are getting closer, and companies that aren’t dragging along the cruft of 20+ year old applications are finding themselves able to just walk away from Windows.

And many of those who do have the 20+ year old apps are finding that App-V and RDS are perfectly acceptable for provisioning of these few remaining legacy applications.

Microsoft Windows as a client operating system exists to provision legacy software, period. Their success or failure over the next 10 years is not guaranteed. A lot depends on how well Metro is received.

And they know it.

If you disbelieve me, then I invite you to please contact Microsoft directly and try to get the ear of Mr. Ballmer. If you are successful, I am certain he will detail to you exactly why it is that Microsoft is going “all in” on the cloud. They are quite literally betting the farm on the concept, because they know that for the first time since the company’s inception, there is a very real chance of losing the desktop.

Cloudy service provisioning is Microsoft’s plan B. And rightly so! If they ever get their licensing sorted, then they have a realistic chance of remaining a big player. Their server stack is fantastic, and it is increasingly ready to both provide private cloudy awesome and integrate with Microsoft’s public cloud offerings.

And soon, I will be able to get Office on any device I choose via HTML5. Microsoft Dynamics, too. IN fact, pretty much everything they offer is being prepared to operate in a platform agnostic fashion as a cloudy offering.

Just in case. Why is that, I wonder, if Microsoft on the desktop is such a sure bet? A slam dunk that can’t be questioned? Why waste the R&D, make the capital investments and risk alienating thier entire developer and reseller base with a cloud play if Windows is so utterly unassailable?

Answers on a beer mat, please.

0
0
Gold badge
Pint

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

Um...what the fuck?

A) I'm not a journalist for my day job. I'm a sysadmin. Small and medium enterprises are my specialty, but I do consult for larger organisations ranging from post-secondary education institutions to some of Canada's largest companies to government agencies.

The journalism/writing/columnist/blogger/whatever this gig counts as is a fun side endeavour.

B) I have no idea where you get the idea that I am a Mac user. That would imply owning a Mac. I support Macs in the field. More and more every month. I have a Mac in the test lab of my largest client that I can remote into from anywhere should I need to figure out how to get X done. Based on Windows 8 client, my next PC will almost certainly be a Mac…but that is quite a was down the road.

My Alienware M18X does me just fine on the desktop. (Win 7 Pro, Server 2008 R2, Win 8 Client, Win 8 Server, CentOS 6.2 and Fedora 16 /w Cinnamon are the installed OSes, just in case you are wondering.)

My Netbook is a Samsung NP-NF210 (Fedora 16 /w Cinnamon and Win 7 three-legged-dog edition.)

I also use a Galaxy Tab (original 7”: rooted, but stock gingerbread,) an ASUS Transformer TF-101 (unrooted, Ice Cream Sandwich,) and two Android phones. (Samsung Galaxy S II and HTC Desire, both rooted, both CM 7.1.)

My consulting company runs on Windows Server 2008 R2 as the virtualisation and storage layers, CentOS 6.2 to provide web services, and Google Apps + Libre Office for collaboration and communications. We maintain a strict BYOD policy regarding endpoints.

I support customers with many and varied policies regarding servers and end devices such that I see Windows, Linux, and Mac both in the datacenter and on people’s desks. I support Blackberries, iOS devices and Android in the field…with nary a Win Phone 7 to be seen, and the last Win Mo 6 gone ages past.

So what – exactly – makes me a “Mac user” amidst that background, sir? I’m quite curious. I'm rather proud of the diversity of my experience, and I go to great pains to broaden it every chance I get. New hardware, new software, new operating systems, new cloudy, SaaSy services.

An open mind seems to me far more likely to capture knowledge than one that is welded shut.

Time for a beer!

0
0
Bronze badge
IT Angle

Re: Drewc - courtesy makes the world go round

I'm not sure which post you are reading but there wasn't any ad hominem - I'm simply surprised by the silly post he made hence the word "clueless"... me & probably thousands of illustrators etc DO think if someone seriously argues that Macs are better for 'graphic design' then he is clueless.

No offense but this is my firm opinion.

0
0
Bronze badge
FAIL

Re: Apple in the enterprise

Oh, do you really think I care about my "credibility" in a forum like this? :)

And, speaking of credibility, the "Macs better for graphic design" idiocy tops it off completely, trust me - you've lost all your credibility to make any claim about Macs or design firms, period.

"So I have to ask; who are you? What are your credentials? What makes your personal experience, your anecdotes, your bold assertions backed by nothing all so without flaw?"

Errr, *you* are asking me? Sweet irony... you repeatedly posted the pinnacle of all clueless Mac claims, just right here and you keep insisting on it.

"Why should anyone believe what you have to say? Especially when you make several repeated errors and assumptions in your posts, ones that could have been avoided by simply reading this very thread?"

First, it's the internet, nobody has to to believe anything. Secondly how about reading my post before you reply? It's all there, in the last sentence. Heck, I'm one of those weird people who use their real name here... amazing, I know.

Repeated errors? Not really, at least nothing in this thread, provided you even understand what I wrote.

"I have plenty of Windows photography clients. I have some Mac photography clients. The Windows ones are almost all universally moving to Mac. Not at any urging of mine; but of their own volition, after examining the alternatives for themselves."

Right... so now the "video editing types" (sic) became photography clients. Slowly but we are getting there...

0
0
Bronze badge
WTF?

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

Ohh, so many juicy errors in one post...

1. Right because SPARC or Power are SOOOO COMMON for web hosting... :D

2.

A) surprise, multiplatform apps are available for almost a decade. On desktops, yes.

B) And? It does not mean anything as far as getting rid of desktops. At any rate syncing configs across several desktops, which is one of the most basic uses of any cloud, just reinforces desktop use...

>That makes “what operating system you run on your desktop” functionally irrelevant. Every year we >are getting closer, and companies that aren’t dragging along the cruft of 20+ year old applications are >finding themselves able to just walk away from Windows."

Just entertain me: just how the hell did you end up with this deduction after making one largely irrelevant point and another one about a baseline cloud feature that *helps* desktop to survive...?

TL,DR: syncing configs or running apps on multiple platforms mean nothing about getting rid of Windows desktops. Seriously, it's just silly.

And you are clearly seem to be confusing desktop OS deployments with cloud-based web applications - and the funniest part you are using the same propaganda crap that Ballmer et al is using to push their crappy Metro junk.

OTOH you accidentally admit one of my points, namely that if Windows 8 tanks - as I expect it unless they restore our Star Menu and make that Metro junk optional - then it will be because of Metro and subsequently it will finally break MS' firm grip on the desktop OS market.

This, however, will have nothing to do with your imagined 'cloud-based, non-x86, iTard-oriented' dreams. Sadly (for you, I guess), desktops are here to stay.

>Cloudy service provisioning is Microsoft’s plan B. And rightly so! If they ever get their licensing sorted, >then they have a realistic chance of remaining a big player. Their server stack is fantastic, and it is >increasingly ready to both provide private cloudy awesome and integrate with Microsoft’s public cloud >offerings."

You really need to lay off the MS Kool-Aid, man - after running them since NT I can confidently say their server stack is pretty far from "fantastic". Is there a better one for general server use? No, there isn't. But that does not make it fantastic at all, it's a resource hog and it's a clunky mess.

And the "awesome" (sic) "integration", like everything with Microsoft, always remains paperware, I bet - just look at OWA, they still insist on buying Office while world+dog already moved to Google Apps.

Did I mentione Microsoft's AWFUL, HORRIBLE RELIABILITY?

I know, I know, you are a sysadmin, you don't care about things like that...

0
0
Gold badge

Re: Drewc - courtesy makes the world go round

Where - once - did I argue Macs were better for graphic design? I said my customers believe this. I don't care what is "better." I care that my customers are comfortable using whatever they want to use and that they feel it increases their productivity.

I believe my customers are in the best position to assess their own desires, needs, workflow and requirements. I can provide assistance and advice, but at the end of the day they are the ones who have to use it. If they believe that Apple is the best choice for them, I will support them.

0
0
Gold badge
Coffee/keyboard

Re: Apple in the enterprise

At this point, you're not even making sense sir.

A) I never argued which was "better" for graphic design/video editing/whatever. My customers have told me what they want. I support them.

B) I have many photographers as clients. Some quite large school/grad/sports shooting houses. Some small portrait shooters. I have customer that run video rendering farms, customers that do graphic design for print media, customers that do graphic design for web work, customers that do video editing, 3d editing and more. Nobody "became" anything here.

I think you are just skimming posts in a frothing rage looking for things you disagree with and then rolling your face around on the keyboard while screaming invectives before hitting post.

Not a good look.

0
0
Gold badge

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

So not only do you make the logical error that "because something is infrequently used for an application, it is irrelevant," you hold up a series of decade-old prejudices as absolute fact in the same post.

Your entire interaction with this thread thus far boils down to "everything run by everyone in the entire world should be run exactly the way I do things, based up on my archaic prejudices, experience from a decade ago, some things I read in a magazine and the technologies, applications and configurations I am personally familiar with."

Any individual who might step outside your comfort zone is someone you feel the need to attack, and belittle. Not with handy things like evidence, science, case studies, statistics or anything that might possibly be of value.

All you have as bald assertions, anecdotes and the internet-given ability to take snippets of a comment completely out of context, make a load of assumptions and then apply the whole kit and caboodle as though it were somehow "fact."

That is called trolling. You’re quite lucky I’m not a moderator here, I’d have given you a vacation. You border on violation of The Register’s rather lax forum rules. Personally, I subscribe to a slightly different theory about forum behaviour, and I am a great believer in having the rules rigedly enforced.

Some people just don’t have anything to contribute to a conversation. Your comments thus far have demonstrated why. Attempting to alter what I wrote to say something other than it does so that you can set up a series of strawmen to knock down is simply not constructive.

If you are in fact using your real name, then I will take the time out to remind you of an imoporant fact: these forums are indexed by Google. You may want to consider that before you continue to post.

0
0
Bronze badge
Holmes

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

Oh pleahse, cut it. You replied to me and I quoted you and asked specific questions and voiced very specific criticism - now when you'd have to explain your point you are crying out loud for moderation?

Seriously.

BTW I find it cute that you linked Ars here - if you were a regular there then you'd know where to find me there any time of the day...

PS: "these forums are indexed by Google."

No shit Sherlock, really? :)

FYI I know it sounds a rather weird concept but as I said I am willing to stand up for my opinion, I don't mind reading it back few years later, even if I turned out to be dead wrong - errare humanum est as the well-educated Hungarian would say. ;)

0
0
Bronze badge
Devil

Re: Apple in the enterprise

Mr Pott...

c'mon.... this is embarrasing and not for me - read back your own posts.

BTW did you read all these comments here making fun of your cute little ravings about MS' $next_greatest_server_product which you haven't even tried? This really should give you/your unconditional love a pause...

(FYI being the person responsible for all things future I did and I even tried to set up a cluster but it was a futile attempt. I might give it another try though.)

Anyhow - here I'm hoping we can still get to the bone of your "Windows desktops are not required" point...

0
0
Gold badge

Re: @Trevor_Pott (no s)

No actually, you haven’t really asked any questions. You've made a lot of statements and assertions and done a lot of name calling based upon false assumptions, but precious little of "here is something you said, can you clarify." I especially love the part where you make the presumption that because I support the decisions and choices made by my clients that I am advocating their position. As somehow correct in all circumstances.

So yes, I do believe you have stepped over the boundaries of polite conversation. I hold to the idea that folks should add something to the conversation. A bit of wit or humour here and there is fine – certainly a norm here on El Reg – but ad hom attacks based upon false inference in comments otherwise loaded with logical fallacies have no place in civilised discourse, sir.

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.