UK kids' art project is 'biggest copyright blag ever' – photographer
A nationwide school arts project that commercialises children's artwork has been branded "the biggest blag in the history of the UK". Face Britain, a world-record breaking attempt supported by the Prince Charles's Foundation for Children and the Arts, has gathered some 70,000 self portraits from youngsters since it was launched …
This topic is closed for new posts.
Some of those painting might actually be valuable
Especially if the child goes on to do something of note, or becomes famous.
If I had a finger painting done by a 4 year old Van Gogh I'd bet it would be worth a fortune.
I agree, objectively all of the children's artwork is going to be a bit rubbish, really. And probably didn't take long to do either.
Organisations whitewashing themselves with charitable status?
Whodathunkit?
Cheeky
When I was at Uni 30 years ago at the start of my source code I put my standard description header, which included "(C) date J.G.Harston". My tutor wrote "cheek!" on the printout I handed in.
Re: Cheeky
I'm quite surprised at this happening at a university level. But I'm fairly sure I was given repeated knock-backs everytime I asked "Difficult" questions at school.
Seems like anyone asking for credit/ownership of their own work is either cheeky or difficult. Makes me so angry I just give up on the state of education.
Oh get over it!
They probably have to own the copyright on the submitted art so they don't get sued for copyright infringement when selling cups and mousemats with the submitted artwork on it.
Re: Oh get over it!
No, mate, that's so far from how it works you'd be best off measuring the distance in astronomical units.
You're conflating two things:
1) the assertion on the part of the submitter/creator that they are in fact either the originator of the piece or the holder of the salient rights, and
2) the provision of a licence to the charity to exploit these images.
For the purposes of the charity, a non-exclusive licence to re-use the material (with attribution of the creator) would be perfectly suitable. The only reason this *doesn't* happen is if someone started with a private purchase contract template, wherein buying exclusive control of all rights would be the norm to maximise the exploitation potential for the material created.
The old saying about attributing malicious motives to stupidity comes to mind, though knowing some folks and some of the schemes claiming to be charities it could equally be both.
Re: Oh get over it!
Do you have any idea how copyright works? Do you really think that when, for example, somebody uses an album cover on a T-Shirt the company making and selling the shirts becomes the sole copyright owner of that work? Do you think the BBC owns the full rights to every series is has ever broadcast?
Re: Oh get over it!
Except as has been stated: a non-exclusive (permanent, royalty-free) license A la Facebook would cover that, or if they had the kids contribute the art as a Creative Commons, rather than full controlled copyright, in the hands of the Organization.
Or they could offer the kid some tiny portion of the proceeds to teach them the value of creation, and instill some notion of copyright as a property. (Again, this was commented above) Tho this would cost more as they'd have to track which kid supplied what and how many times it was sold. And that might eat into the 80%.
Odds are this is just lazy/cheap boilerplate that they can't be bothered to change. It is much simpler to say "All your copyright are belong to us" than it is to define terms and limits of a license.
Re: Oh get over it!
> They probably have to own the copyright on the submitted art
No, they don't.
Vic.
How Old School
This kind of feels like going back to the roots of copyright really. Back in the mid 1500s, booksellers and printers could own “copies”, as they were eligible for membership in the Stationer's Company. Copyright was purely a concern for those who owned the distribution and reproduction facilities back then.
Enforceable?
Are terms like this enforceable?
Tricking a child into into signing away all rights to her artistic creations and then selling them commercially sounds like the epitome of an unfair contract...
Re: Enforceable?
I personally do not think it is enforceable because one of the essential components of a contract is 'capacity' - which does not apply to children. The parents, however.
Glad that to see articles like this on El Reg, and all of the comments. As someone who works in Procurement, the trend (allegedly) is for simpler, but tighter and robust contracts that are appropriate to the Procurement. In the 'real' world, it's still insert boiler-plate clauses that result in supplies ramping up prices to factor contractual disputes / compliance with a bunch of policies that bear little relation to the Procurement at hand.
Back to the point at hand, I am more and more concerned at the use of T&Cs to syphon away rights. I suspect that if this issuers highlighted in the media i.e. Metro, and a MP or two become involved, the embarrassment factor will result in a more sensible set of T&Cs.
Always reminds me of that wonderful Stalin anecdote when informed that his actions might rankle with the Pope. "F**k the Pope. How many divisions does he have?" or words to that effect. T&Cs may say one thing, actual enforcement in law if one party wishes to rely on a clause, is another
@Oh get over it!
No, they don't. They can just request a license to use for said merchandising and promotion surrounding it. That's all they need to be able to function. They certainly don't need a license to do as they please with it, and certainly don't need all rights signing over to them.
Sure, they might not be anything special all these entries - but who is to say in future that one of the many children who enters won't become a famous artist or famous in some other way? This early "work" then does have commercial value to be exploited - but no longer by the "artist".
Re: @Oh get over it!
Use the "Reply" button in future, it's what it's there for!
Re: @Oh get over it!
Also, if an advertising agency notices something they can use in one of their promotions the charity can allow them to do so (for a price) without reference to the creator who may or may not wish to be associated(*) with the specific product/company being promoted.
(*) kids tend to put their real names on stuff
Re: @Oh get over it!
First time I've commented on something on the reg for a long time, button hasn't always been there. It's smart arses like you why I usually don't bother.
Charity
I am going to stop donating money to charity in case they use it to invest and gain more money without offering me a cut of the increased value.
Re: Charity: Downvoters in sense of humour fail shock :)
Duh!
Listen: You give something e.g. money, artwork, your time, whatever, to someone, be it a homeless person or a charity, then you no longer have a say in what happens to it. It's theirs now, not yours, so either don't give, or get over yourself.
What part of GIVE don't we understand?
Unfair Contracts Directive Anybody?
Business can write any terms they want, unfortunately for them, here in the EU we have protection for individuals from "sharp" business practice, in the form of the unfair contracts directive, and it's UK enactment in the Unfair Contracts Act.
My personal guess is the terms wouldn't survive 5 seconds in front of a judge.
Anybody interested, the OFT guide can be found here ;
www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft311.pdf
Interestingly most US EULA's (Rotten Core, Micro$haft,, et al), would also fall under this remit of this legislation for personal customers.
Home Painting is killing Arts!
And it's illegal, too (well, maybe not yet, but probably soon.)
OTOH, what better way is there to teach kids about IP than to rip them off like this? "What, your parents have a copy of this pinned on the fridge? I'm calling the police right away..."
clueless
The chief exec is clueless about copyright law. It doesn't matter what you paint it with or where - I'm sure Picasso and Gaugin painted with brushes and paint and stuff. If you created it then you have the copyright. An employer can ask you to give up copyright on material developed on their behalf but it has to be explicit.
All they had to do was ask for specific permission to use the image in any fashion related to the project. The wording they've chosen far exceeds that.
Minor Problem
A minor cannot enter into a contract, and be bound to it, unless if it for "necessities" such as food, or in some cases where it enable them to make a living. This scheme pretty much falls as far outside of the scope of "necessity" as it possibly can.
At any point up to the age of 18, the minor can back out of the contract by voiding it, which is certainly worth doing if one of their masterpieces becomes a million seller - Might be nice of they left the 20% with the charity though.
There is no way that an adult could assign copyright on a child's behalf, and even if they made the child do it, it would still be voidable for the reasons set out above.
LMFAO if only people were this passionate about music copyright
Actually, many commentards are
The point is that this organisation is teaching kids "You must give away your Copyrights to large organisations, only big companies can own copyrights. You are small, you cannot."
So, is it surprising if these children grow up thinking that copyright doesn't matter, only big organisations can have it. When they were little some organisation 'stole' their copyrights, so why not infringe it.
An easy train of thought goes:
It's not like they are affecting real people by infringing. That company probably 'stole' the copyrights in the first place like someone did to theirs. So clearly they should take it back!
Put another way, if we want these kids to respect our copyrights then we should respect theirs, and teach them what copyright actually is.
Troll icon not available for AC posts...
...but I think the content should be clear enough.
It's like this. If you live on Fuckoff Island, either you're eating the sandwich, or you are the sandwich. And the greed and corruption of the sandwich eaters is such that your children are the sandwich too.
There are two modern functions for charity. The first is as a pressure-valve for social iniquity. That it should be necessary in an organised society for volunteers in their free time to need to care for the weaker members is clearly wrong. But we stand for it, and in doing so we enable the pigs who make it necessary.
The second is as a crowbar for the wallet of private individuals. Charitable giving is expected, and those who openly choose not to are likely to be excoriated. Consequently "charitable organisations" are in a position to coin it hand over fist from people who consider it impolite to ask exactly what is happening with their money.
The government is there to ensure that this sort of thing can go on unimpeded. The police are there to ensure that the government's policies may be implemented without hindrance. And the media are there to demonstrate what all right-thinking people need to believe in order to fit in, and to fund sundry police officers' free time. In the immortal words of John le Carre "You scratch my conscience, I'll drive your Jag".
This shit will never stop. It is How Things Are Done. The people who could change things don't care. The people who care cannot change things. If you are in the system then you are of the system. If you are outside the system how dare you presume to object?
Money money money
Money? To the kids? From what is supposed to be a charitable thing? Way to go. Teaching the kids that they can make money from charities is good indeed. Next week, "how to con the old ladies with a DIY red cross donation box".
They should retain copyright of course, and the waiver should be narrowed. But demand money? Fail of the utmost epicness.
the Queen?
Let me get this straight... this contest is stealing these kids' art so they can make one of those trendy composite-image portraits of... the goddamn' Queen?
Jeezus, man; that's just adding insult to injury, if you ask me.
Bah. Spit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtUH2YSFlVU
This new site does not exploit children's copyright
You must check out www.artbeez.com
This website has none of these copyright issues and is a great concept.
It is a social network and fundraising platform for young people to showcase, share, collaborate, store and sell their artwork for charity. They can raise money collectively for a fundraiser or on their own by supporting children's charities that we partner with.
The site gives tweens and teens a world stage and a meaning to social networks by bringing together like-minded children globally based on the theme of art and charitable giving. Its unique concept of linking social, charitable giving and creativity aims to encourage children's interest in the arts, empower them and harness their creativity to help bring social change.
They can also create unique merchandise with their artwork, for example designing cards, posters and t-shirts. The website is designed for use by children aged from 7 to 16.
Check it out!
Chinsagu
Say Cheese
So does this mean I should have been paid modelling fees for all the school photos of me that my parents had to pay for all those years ago?
Solved by being specific
a) I ____ hereby grant the right for the attached artwork to be used to create a composite picture of the queen's face which will be displayed at ______ on the ____ of _____ 2012.
b) I also agree to allow the supplied image to be reproduced without compensation to the artist.
This topic is closed for new posts.
