Death to Office or to Windows - choose wisely, Microsoft
Windows is dead, and Microsoft Office has killed it. Or will, once the rumours about Microsoft porting its wildly popular Office product to the iPad become reality. For just as porting Office to Mac OS X back in 2001 sowed the seeds of Apple's relevance as a credible desktop alternative to Windows, so too will Microsoft's …
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: huh?
Is the iPad additional to your notebook/desktop?
A friend asked me if they should replace their windows notebook with an iPad and I felt that I couldn't recommend that as they would still need to have a 'proper' computer to store family photos, document processing etc. As well as the additional costs surrounding a iPad such as app costs and iAccessories.
So the cost might be £399 but that is still additional cost on top of a notebook / desktop.
"What can a tablet do that a PC cannot?"
Be conveniently carried in one hand while in use, for a start.
Re: "What can a tablet do that a PC cannot?"
There's a problem with that.
One thing that they do have in common with their fuller-fat counterparts is that they do not bounce. For the competition this is not an issue, as the more traditional machines are far less likely to be fumbled one-handed and prove this the hard way.
Re: Re: "What can a tablet do that a PC cannot?"
Everyone keeps going on about a docking station. And how much with that be? If it's anything like the docking station for the Android phones, it'll be somewhere in the $250-$350 range. And while that station has a screen and the iPad wouldn't need one, it's also Apple, so it'll come with the Apple tax. An iPad plus a docking station is now well beyond the El Cheapo desktops most cubicle drones could ever hope to set fingers on.
Oh, sure, it would work for those breezy made-of-money corporate types, and maybe possibly for the high-end employee with the specialized laptop (usually IT or Engineering), but the cubicle drone, with the bottom-of-the-barrel desktop? He doesn't need to move the desktop. Why get him a portable device? And the blue-collar worker with the ancient desktop and the greasy touch-screen would break an iPad the first day. There's a reason those machines are reinforced.
The iPad might replace a handful of personal computers, but for the corporations out there? Not a chance.
Bollocks. Who on earth is going to type any lengthy article on an ipad?
"Who on earth is going to type any lengthy article on an ipad?"
I'll tell you who.
The dimbulbs who go out and spend more money on an external keyboard...effectivley turning their Fondleslab into a laptop computer...which they could have purchased for a slightly less sum...and gotten something that has MORE functionality...that's who.
My desktop needs a keyboard
My tablet doesn't need one, but can use one. In fact, it uses the same one my desktop does.
Unlike my tablet, my desktop is a lionized TV when it doesn't have a keyboard.
Unlike my desktop, my tablet is quite functional without a keyboard; and even has an ad-hoc little keyboard emulator when I don't have a physical one handy...
Unlike my desktop, my tablet is quite functional without a keyboard;
well how about that
Re: My desktop needs a keyboard
A desktop without a keyboard isn't much worse than a tablet these days, since most modern OS have mouse support. I've gone a while on my desktop without touching the keyboard and relying on either voice recognition, handwriting recognition, or the virtual keyboard.
I still use my laptop as well, and the keyboard on that has been ruined for about half a year now.
Hmmm
My first view was to be as dismissive as my fellow commenterstards have been. But I think I see your point. Sure, right now an iPad isn't the best way to write a big document but just being able to do so represents a massive change in direction for MS.
Re: Hmmm
Woa! Strike through text? When did we get that? Also how?
Re: Re: Hmmm
< s > strikethrough < /s >
Methinks. Without the spaces.. obviously
Re: represents a massive change in direction for MS
Not really. At least once every 7 years MS has to fake interest in supporting Apple to keep the DoJ anti-trust people at bay.
" . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
Stopped reading
Re: " . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
...and straight to the comments!
Outraged of middle England
Re: Re: " . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
Yeah well that was kinda the point. Gold star for you. Also: couldn't get further from middle England if you tried.
Re: " . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
never seen one in my office. CAD is the only reason I'm on a Windows machine right now, so what will AutoDesk do? I'd love to run that on my Fedora box, but I don't think I have the excessively modern hardware needed to make that work with virtualization. Is there an easier way to run CAD off Windows?
Re: " . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
Indeed. I scrolled up expecting this to be an Andrew Orlowski special at that point. Perhaps Matt Asay is a pseudonym?
Re: Re: " . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
Outraged of United Kingdom if you don't mind. I'm not a Daily Heil reader, lemon sucking miserable bastards.
But straight to the comments is right ;)
Re: Re: " . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
"Is there an easier way to run CAD off Windows?"
ArchiCAD, AutoCAD, PowerCADD or VectorWorks on a Mac?
Re: Re: " . Office is a kingmaker in the enterprise, and the iPad is already king there."
Depends on the product but many CAD products exist for Mac....
Dear Bill Neal,
As far as CAD on Linux goes, a perfectly viable AutoCAD clone is DraftSight by DAssault Systems (Solidworks, CATIA). It's a bit crummy compared to AutoCAD on Windows, but thats more UI response speed than lack of features.
As for tablets, Autodesk has a few viewer programs available for iOS and Android. Not exactly sure if they're write-capable, but definitely very useful. Especially for quick on-site markup and viewing where it's easier to take that out than a full laptop setup. Though they really could use some work in the ease of use department.
Not with current management
Microsoft has technology to render things on server gpu and send to clients.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff817578(v=ws.10).aspx
issue here is the spoiled kid like management who wants people to use their stuff only. Just having to translate to opengl would make them nuts let alone shipping to other (enemy!) platforms.
A lot of good, cool stuff gets invented and gets messed up with archaic platform monopolist ideas of 90s. They could not take IBM as example and become something bigger.
Look to stuff we're reading about, the possibility of releasing a product, service to a new coming platform. For any other software company, even questioning it would be insane. Did IBM give up releasing Windows software because OS/2 existed?
Same company, before becoming a Ballmer toy released products on Apple before PC versions. Mac internet explorer had better features than windows version etc.
I don't think Windows will die, as you put it. I can certainly see its market share being drastically reduced, as we've seen with IE. Computing consumers these days are a bit more savvy to alternatives, and the ones that aren't are drawn in by Apple's shiny gimmickery. But I don't think it will die, simply because of what depends on it.
Games, for example, largely require DirectX, and while it's heartening to see the recent dearth of excellent indie PC games that have gone tri-platform (check out the Humble Bundles), all the big-name stuff is pretty much Windows only, with the odd one getting a Mac port a year down the line. If the death of Windows were the target, then lashings of money would need to be spent beefing up OpenGL and moving onto it. I'd love for that to happen (games on Linux woo), but I don't think it will.
Linux in its current form will never be mainstream
Despite all the protestations otherwise (Ubuntu anyone?), Linux remains about as far from user friendly as it's probably possible to achieve for an OS. And it's intended to be this way. Linux, sadly, is a geek toy. A box of delights with which to tinker - if you have infinite time on your hands to do so. In the face of all the global industrial-political corruption we're seeing in recent years, a little voice inside of me is crying out for a genuinely usable open-source OS. All it will take is the buy-in of either the Linux dev community (not going to happen, they like the exclusivity too much), or some new organisation to grab the kernel sources and put an awesome UI on top. Tie a DirectX emulator in (yes, I know that would be technically illegal, but the ends justify the means) and I'm fucking sold.
Well, the writer lives on the assumption that Apple's market share is growing and is significant everywhere in the world.
Well, that's not the case in roughly 90% of the world. OS X requires Apple hardware, and people don't want to pay the Apple tax for an otherwise ordinary PC. Not to mention exorbitant prices for parts and limited upgradeability. Sorry, but for the price of a Mac I can get a much more capable PC and run whatever I wish on it.
Re: Linux in its current form will never be mainstream
> Linux remains about as far from user friendly as it's probably possible to achieve for an OS. And it's intended to be this way.
Yes. Thousands of hours of research into user interfaces for enough DE's to suit anyone, sure. Android has obviously faced a huge problem in this area.
> A box of delights with which to tinker - if you have infinite time on your hands to do so. In the face of all the global industrial-political corruption we're seeing in recent years, a little voice inside of me is crying out for a genuinely usable open-source OS.
Terribly unusable. I mean it can't even run internet exploder 9! And dear heavens what will we all do without our outlook and having the ability to install executables with a wizard! Where the hell is the C: drive and where's the defrag utility!? There's no start button. I can't use this.
> All it will take is the buy-in of either the Linux dev community (not going to happen, they like the exclusivity too much),
You mean IBM, Intel, SuSE, Redhat, Canonical, Epson..... then yes. I'm sure embedded manufacturers enjoy exclusively using Linux in their products also.
> or some new organisation to grab the kernel sources and put an awesome UI on top.
Kind of like Redhat? (read: Gnome).
> Tie a DirectX emulator in
No. You do not solve the problem by making a new implementation of the similar system. You of all people must have seen how far silverlight has gotten in this world.
@nexsphil
Nice anti-Linux rant there, but at what point did I make any reference to it going mainstream? I was only talking about it being supported through the use of OpenGL.
Re: Linux in its current form will never be mainstream
ReactOS
Re: ReactOS
Are you mentioning that "for" or "against" the "it'll never happen" proposition?
Great Idea MS
Then try charging £200+ for it....
How much do Apple's equivalents cost?
Beer O'Clock
Re: Great Idea MS
Methinks Apple won't be getting their normal 30% cut in the iTunes store
The truth is iPad showed us
there is life outside Windows. Millions of users are now aware that Windows is not the only computing experience available. They discovered they are not so dumb that they can not find their way on a new unfamiliar GUI. I'm curious to see if and how Microsoft will be able to undo this.
Re: The truth is iPad showed us
Did you miss Office 2007's ribbon interface, Win3.1, Win95, Vista, or Win7? They were all "a new, unfamiliar GUI" in their time.
Re: The truth is iPad showed us
I was shown and was so happy with my MacBook Pro. Best thing I ever did... was sell it 18 months later. There is a life outside Windows, it has very high walls and you WILL do things their way ;)
I escaped... thank goodness.
Keep your cartoon GUI that hasn't changed for years, keep it and enjoy it. Though there's a life outside too y'know ;)
Re: Re: The truth is iPad showed us
"Did you miss Office 2007's ribbon interface, "
No. It was and is shit.
@Bear Features - : Re: The truth is iPad showed us
Are you sure you used OS X? Not confusing it with IOS? I take it that you never learnt how to use it and know even less about UNIX (BSD variant, as OS X).
I use Windows XP, Windows 7, OS X, Solaris, Cygwin and have used most varieties of Linux (gave up when I got OS X and found a better implementation of UNIX and no longer had to support it at work) - mixture of work requirements and home pleasure. Windows is the most annoying, "locked/walled" system, with its fussy interfaces, rough edges even on mature products and constantly trying to be too clever. The only thing I appreciate is Excel. But the implementation by MS for OSX seems to be faster and more reliable. Actually, MS Office is rather decent on OS X. I am sure it would be more than passable on IOS too.
Re: The truth is iPad showed us
Linux netbooks showed us that a new unfamiliar GUI doesn't have to be a problem before iPads. They are still more practical use.
Re: Re: The truth is iPad showed us
And where are those Linux netbooks now? How many were returned or had Windows put on them? The netbook was a great idea, but it has turned out to be a total flash-in-the-pan. Microsoft managed to kill-off the idea of small cheap computers quickly.
Linux netbooks
Linux netbooks gained significantly less traction than an iPad.
Return rates where higher than their Windows equivalents as well.
Ever wonder why that was?
Re: The truth is iPad showed us
Meh. MS shows us a new and unfamiliar GUI about once every 6 years. They're still most of the market in spite of it.
Yawn
There are so many alternatives to MS Office these days, will anyone notice or care when Microsoft's take on these apps gets to the iPad? iOS is losing out to Android anyway.
Wake me up when LibreOffice runs on my Android.
Re: Yawn
Not long now:
http://androidcommunity.com/libreoffice-android-port-progresses-to-prototype-20120206/
Re: Re: Yawn
That doesn't look good. If they want to retain all the functionality of the desktop version then something like the Ribbon interface would be a good choice.
Re: Yawn
"will anyone notice or care when Microsoft's take on these apps gets to the iPad?"
Well, the author sure makes an excellent example of your statement. Because while he claims there will be no way that Office is ever going to be supported on Android Microsoft has proven otherwise:
http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-onenote/archive/2012/02/07/onenote-mobile-for-android-is-now-available-worldwide.aspx
OneNote, an office application to store notes and basically any kind of information you want, has been released on Android earlier this month. Now, I realize that this isn't "Office" as a whole, but surely it does go right against the made statements that MS will "never support Android".
The Curse Of The 21st Century: MS Office
All the clueless corpo-drones abuse especially Excel in as many horrible ways as possible. One anecdote I heard is Accenture "maintaining" their full customer project list and employee list on Excel.
I personally know of another megacorp doing all sorts of stuff in Excel and Powerpoint. Of course, there are no clean table definitions as in an SQL database and quite often reports are generated by calling completely fscked-up VBA scripts which then run for 30 minutes, but would take about 1 second if properly coded in C#.
What the corpo-drones like most is mixing data and prose. So one piece of codes expects data from line 8, but one drone changed that so that it will start from line 5, without telling the VBA elite programmer. Then the report will of course ignore the first three lines....
Then there is the inevitable performance drain of scripting MS Office via DCOM, which is the route mostly taken if a proper language like C# or C++ is used. Generating the Office XML directly is 100 times faster, but then the lazy programmer has to read the spec and do a little reverse engineering plus abstracting from html. So in general that route is not taken....
Re: The Curse Of The 21st Century: MS Office
The programmer may or may not be lazy but the line-manager who commissioned the software almost certainly wants it yesterday. COM is quicker to write than parsing XML.
Which is sad, but horribly true.
Re: The Curse Of The 21st Century: MS Office
Actually, it's fairly straightforward:
* Mega-corporate IT won't do f-all unless they are working on a $20M+ project.
* And the "corpo-drones", as you call them, aren't allowed to use anything except Office.
What's that leave? Excel ... FTW!
(It's neither laziness nor ignorance. Us droneys simply ain't allowed to play with no 'kewl' toyz.)
Re: The Curse Of The 21st Century: MS Office
From the corporate IT basement comes the truth according to the last pocket-protecting booger-picking nerd hired.
Re: The Curse Of The 21st Century: MS Office
What you need to realise is that in the enterprise end-users aren't allowed to use Java, C#, C++ etc so they use office (mainly Excel) because it contains a scripting language you cannot prevent them from using. That's why it is so prevalent. It is also much quicker for a capable end-user, and there are more than you think, to prototype and get something running in Excel than it is to go through the 15 layers of bullshit involved with getting centralised IT to analyse and start a project to perform a small task. Most errors come down to inappropriate structuring, control, and code management.
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