The freetards' second-favourite MP, Eric Joyce (sample quote: "It's highly debatable that downloading is theft") has allegedly been arrested following a fight in the Strangers Bar at the House of Commons. An anonymous eyewitness quoted at Total Politics alleged that Joyce, 51, head-butted a Conservative MP and punched a Labour …
Re: Not this old chestnut again
I wouldn't say Eric is a freetard either.
I didn't write the headline.
http://www.techdirt.com/skyisrising/ and a TechDirt follow-up article
Time and again it has been shown that people downloading/sharing has no impact on sales.
In fact it can be a boon to struggling artists and independents.
The RIAA, BPI, MPAA etc do not like this news as it affects their members by reducing their role as the gatekeepers.
I understand that some people will be upset at their work being shared, and these people will have slightly less money on their piles of millions but here's a suggestion; maybe they were never really worth millions in the first place. Maybe when a truly free market sets a value, they just can't handle the truth.
Companies that do not innovate should fail, not get to set new laws to entrench their business models.
And if all you can do is respond with ad hominems, perhaps it's better you not respond at all or keep your comments switched off.
No reputable report has ever claimed there is no negative impact on sales. These crumble under scrutiny. Rob Levine analyses them at length in his book Free Ride - I suggest you give it a read.
Now, you could have said say the effects have been exaggerated, and other factors have contributed to the decline in recorded music sales. Such as unbundling albums, supermarket price pressure, etc. I've written about this. But you insist that there's no negative effect at all.
You destroy what could be a very strong position by shooting yourself in the foot - you push a reasonable point over the edge, into absurdity. I described your post as childish because, frankly, it is.
As for "real markets", I agree: these are "real" because property rights can be enforced. I doubt you're ready to make that step, though.
Perhaps he would have been better to say that there is "no evidence that there are negative effects." That is a bit easier to defend.
The vast majority of evidence of supposed negativity is mere horseshit. Still I think it is a little immature to call his comment childish and rather reduces the credibility of your stance. The situation within the music industry is very complex as you rightly say but it is for the music industry to prove the harm, not the other way around.
Aren't MPs paid enough to afford full-price drinks like the rest of us?
Silly me, I forgot: one rule for us...
More alcohol fueled violence
Given the crackdown the government wants to see on excessive boozing and related issues, perhaps for the first time ever they should lead by example; move their private (subsidised, no less) bars to soft drinks only and ban all alcohol from Westminster.
But no - "Do as we say, not as we do"
(Cheers for allowing comments, Andrew)
Ban all alcohol from Westminster.
Won't someone think of the M.P.'s.
This is an issue that we can all go puritanical over. Ban alchohol from Westminster (and smoking) to safeguard our dear MP's health and welfare. I care so much for them, that I would even introduce compulsory breathalyzer tests. I know they would understand, as they have nothing to hide, thus nothing to fear.
Re: Ban all alcohol from Westminster.
They should at least have to declare tax payer subsidized boozing for themselves and their cronies in their expenses claims.
P.S. Andrew, just how much are they charging for a pint of Old and Cloudy in the Strangers Bar? The public has a right to know.
Re: Re: Ban all alcohol from Westminster.
It was £2.70 per pint for the real ale.
Which got me thinking - that's surely above the wholesale price, and leaves a little profit for the House of Commons. Whatever it is that's "subsidised" about Strangers, it ain't the real ale.
"a degree in religious studies, as an officer in the education corps"
Anyone spot the problem here?
(Secular) Education is the BANE of the religious.
Have you been in a Falkirk pub?
That's the normal end to a night's drinking in Falkirk. (maybe excluding Behind the Wall...)
"... Joyce, who was seen talking to a blonde"
It's good that he's on speaking terms with Boris Johnson.
It just shows the deleterious affects of cheap alcohol on society blah blah
Minimum unit pricing the only way to cure the ills of society blah blah
Orange Jump Suits for goal posts
Lewd and licentious soldiery and alcohol don't mix harrumph harrumph
And all the other guff that issue-obsessed rent-a-quotes are likely to come up with to support their world view.
Re: Cheap Alcohol
I fully support the minimum unit pricing of alcohol. For MPs, anyway.
"alleged that Joyce, 51, head-butted a Conservative MP..." -.-
" ...and punched a Labour member..." -.-
"...and that drinks were spilled" O.o
"drinks were spilled"
Didn't think this was much of an issue until I read that!
A couple of MPs being hit fair enough, but spilling beer :-( Hope they through away the key, especially if our tax money subsidised it
My word. An excellent article, but I am afraid you missed the most salient point. No description of the type of spilled beverages or amount spilled was given. Truly, this was the most important bit given the context. Were any injuries caused by small umbrellas or chunks of flung fruit?
look what cheap alcohol does. Best put the prices up in the Commons bars.
A no bullshit person?
Dunno, but from the description given he seems the sort of chap I would tend to respect.
"...Joyce, 51, head-butted a Conservative MP and punched a Labour member and that drinks were spilled."
Cool! I'd happily buy him another drink just for those awesome actions alone!
I'd say Knighthood
Services to cheering up the Poor.
Nothing warms the heart like reports of a tory MP getting a glasgow kiss :), shame it was likely only the one.
And out of curiosity, which MP were you a guest of Andrew?
If there is any justice
He should get away with a fine....... of £1M
Aren't we missing the bigger picture here...
....that this guy, an elected representative, sounds like he is a right cock!! He looks very much to be a prime example of someone who is totally out for himself.
Paris - because even she has a basic sense of probity.
e looks very much to be a prime example of someone who is totally out for himself.
What was 'Call me Dave' there?
Re: Aren't we missing the bigger picture here...
"He looks very much to be a prime example of someone who is totally out for himself."
Doesn't that make him perfect material for being a MP? With a few exceptions, they're all back stabbers doing anything to enhance their careers, keep themselves in power etc. He's exactly the same as all the rest, just somewhat less subtle. He punches rather than using his powers behind the scenes to ruin the persons life.
I guess that behaviour is no more abhorrent than the churlish jeering they spend their life doing.
Did he say.....
See you Jimmy?
Just before nutting Tory Boy?
Labout politician? Punch up?
Is there a shadow deputy PM post up for grabs? Or maybe shadow Transport Minister?
Eric Joyce quote
"It's highly debatable that downloading is theft"
Where did that quote come from?
This music and video debacle reminds me of writing code!
I'm beginning to count how long I've been coding in decades now and I've never had a commision for every copy ever produced - I do it for a salary which means it belongs to the company I work for at the time! I've even tested ripped off copies and found pathetic bugs! What can I do about that - SFA. I thought the net was going to magically cut out the middle men in the music industry but I guess I'm probably wrong! Anyway - get serious will you - spilling a drink is just totally wrong man!
Re: This music and video debacle reminds me of writing code!
Well, like me, you've exchanged your rights for contract pay. It's our choice to do that.
Middle-men exist because they provide value for artists. If you were Adele, would you want a brilliant manager, or would you prefer to trust your career to Have-a-Go-Harry next door? He seems nice and enthusiastic. But perhaps the professional manager would do you better in the long run.
Was he arrested for the head-butting or for spilling the drinks?
If you read the history of the MP in question (google) you will see that appears to be one of those people who should stop drinking at all.
The other question is why the prices in the Commons bars are so subsidised, given the joy with which they like to legislate for the Outer Party and The Proles.
It's highly debatable that downloading is theft
It isn't. It's copyright infringement.
It's highly debatable that copyright infringement is theft. I'll headbutt anyone says different.
If you're a Tory MP, I'll headbutt you anyway. Well done Eric!
"drinks were spilled"
To The Tower with him!!!
Sounds like he's a bit of and independant-thinking type, how the hell did he get past the vetting process to be an MP ? (seriously, you don't think they're vetted?)
Anyway, he was only doing what everyone else wants to do. He could argue he was 'speaking on behalf of his constituents' I'm sure.
I know this is a techie site but I'm still sad a story about our elected leaders resorting to punch ups gets so many posts about the definition of "theft".
Illegal downloads are illegal (der!), thumping someone is illegal - both can have debatable moral positions (violence in defence of self/others? copying a file to listen to a couple of times that you would never buy?)
We seem to be stuck on the download rather than the violence, but maybe that is what is more in our experience.