NotInventedHere

you do realise that you cant say that kind of thing here?

i completely agree with you tho but we must remain quiet if you dont want to get bombed with down votes/

Its funny, im obviously too stupid to use Android and actually like it, but i have both of them on this same device for learning reasons, so its fair reasoning that i might have a good understanding about how both of them function without differences in hardware getting in the way, and dispite having a good head start android just isnt what i want, i want a phone that works out of the box, with extras that work out of the box. If i want a computer in my pocket id reinstall Windows Mobile again, and i do still use WM on a different device, WP7 is a phone, not a pocket pc, not a android or ios device, its a phone!

I dont understand this constant need of android users to belittle WP users, do they not have anything else to do, like work perhaps? or maybe i should start talking about things too, like malware or perhaps trully CRAP performance on devices that are so low end market they are barely better than a calculator, or maybe i should talk about inter-version app compatibilty, or OS upgrades, or BT profile support, i could go on but im not, because thats unfair to cherry pick bad points, WP7 Android and iOS are NOT perfect, none of them are, if you like one OS over another then GOOD FOR YOU, i trully hope your happy, i also hope you dont become a victim to vendor lockin because the only person to lose out in such cases is you,

Each to their own.

You know, if you lot did this amount of slagging off in real life, say in a work place to complete strangers or infact even people you know, you honestly think they would continue to give you the time of day let alone anything else?

Net Anonymity is not an excuse

Bada?

Bada sells on CHEAP phones, not because it's any good. Like everything cheap sales volume does not equate to profits, quality or any other metric, it sold because it was cheap, that's it.

Windows Phone 7 actually has a lot of merit and neither of the others is perfect is it? Why doesn't it sell more is a difficult question, but there is great potential there. Unfortunately there is a large segment of the tech (or like to think they are tech) sphere that childishly hate Microsoft purely because it is Microsoft (f&&k knows why, they've done a lot to advance the industry, jealousy over success perhaps?). Bottom line is MS have been so successful because many of their products are actually reasonably good, they get a job done and they have cultivated a productive ecosystem in x86, there is no reason to think they can't do the same again with phones given time.

PS. I am a Linux AND Windows Systems Admin (equally), I do both because they both have a role in practical IT infrastructure, I am no fanboy, I'm a realist.

Awards

"Titanic" got Oscars. Didn't stop it being a crap film. Come to that "Avatar" got oscars despite having no sensible story line at all, apart from "Wheeee..." And don't let me get all Kermode over "Pirates of the Carribean"...

@Jim

That there is no point in trotting out awards as any arguement at all.

Good point well made... Tired of people childishly bashing WP7. I'm sure it is very good.

The only reason I'm not trying it is because I'm so immersed in the Google universe - it's too much hassle to change direction now. Google would have to do something really stupid to make me change.

That's the problem MS faces....

" If the person who bought the WP7 phone pulled it out in a pub everyone around would laugh at them"

Well, it is only 3.8 inch

@Jim Coleman: shiny&new != any good

WP7 may be fast but my dirt cheap Xperia is more than fast enough and my wife doesn't play enough demanding games to complain about her even cheaper OSF. When will you lot learn boasting about WP7's speed doesn't impress the rest of us!

In my opinion WP7 is fugly as hell and without monopoly control to force everyone to use it I'm never going to start liking it. I don't care how much other people like it, I don't. Unlike Android, as a user I can't replace or fix the things I hate and Microsoft won't rethink that fugly tiles UI unless WP7 then WP8 completely fails in the market.

Every time I see the list of selling points for WP7 it's a list of things I've already tried and either didn't like or didn't match the way I use my phone. And Microsoft won't let me fix those choices. A tired and old UI beats any shiny new UI *that doesn't do what I want or need*.

@Paul

You've never actually used one have you?

The only people that I've heard say that it's a bad user experience/interface are people who haven't used one. I know many people who've used one and say it's not for them, but they don't actually go off on extended ill informed rants.

@ Bob

Have you tried it? or are you basing this opinion only on screenshots?

The paradigm is that the mobile screen is in effect a window into information that is too large to view. Your butchered sentence makes no sense when you realise that the whole sentence in WP7 would be visible simply by scrolling sideways. the lack of submenus in WP7 is refreshing!

I was sceptical until I bought an HTC Titan (4.7 inch screen with 2.5 - 3 days use between charges - Amazing.) after two years of Android. There's no way I'd go back now - Everything just works. I've not found an app yet that I've needed that hasn't been present, there is however, a lack of fart apps wich must also mean it's rubbish right?

I've used one

It was crap.

Although my Android phone isn't perfect, and nor are my colleagues iPhones, they're all useable. Trying WP7 in a shop (before I chose Android, btw) was a complete WTF? experience, whereas trying the other two was a "Oh, OK, I see how that works...".

Incidentally, none of the emails I get on my Xperia are scanned by anyone, because I use my own mail infrastructure thank-you-very-much. The platform made that very easy to achieve.

@lone lurker

"the whole sentence in WP7 would be visible simply by scrolling sideways"

That is a DEFECT not an advantage. Reflowing to fit the screen width is a good usability feature, clipping it is a fashion statement. I'll choose the phone that gets the UI right before trying to look good.

That neatly sums up what's wrong with both WP7 *and* the mix of paid and genuine WP7 supporters praising every defective feature in it. Trying to pass defects off as selling points shows just how out of touch with reality the whole WP7 faction is.

@Pete A

I don't believe you. If you didn't like the UI that's fine, just say so, many people don't like many UIs for differing reasons. Personally, I have never found a UI without some useful or interesting features, even if I don't like the thing as a whole. Claiming you couldn't work out how it works or didn't understand it is just pathetic, it's a very nicely thought through UI and is immediately obvious to new users. I have heard many people who don't like it that much, but no-one - including all the linux die-hards that I work with, who all use Android - who hasn't been able to work out how it works at their first glance.

I had one....

The Dell Venue Pro. And it was useless.

The Bluetooth didn't work properly (so distorted it was useless) it failed to connect to Wireless networks, it made calls of its own volition, there was a distinct lack of apps for it, the look-and-feel was dull and boring and it was tethered, so was unusable for one of its main purposes as a Bluetooth modem.

There is absolutely no chance of me going back to a Windows phone. I'd rather my balls be ripped off and fried in battery acid.

Pardon? Did you understand the implications of your silly statement?

"and if someone looks at their phone wondering what the **** it is doing..it is usually them and not the phone that needs testing and optimisation."

I thought these devices were made for people; so if normal people find a device hard, confusing or even just awkward to use, the device designer is at fault, not the user.

Still, one needs to be a good engineer and designer to know and understand that. Bad ones just blame the user and wonder why, sooner or later, their products and then they themselves fail.

Linux is a case in point (of which Android is a semi-closed variant): no attention to interface design for the majority of punters so even this free operating system fails to dislodge either Windows or OS X from the mainstream market.

I don't think M$ wants to kill Nokia. They need Nokia to build and sell WP7 phones.

Barriers

The biggest barriers for WP is a competitor who has a large chunk of its users base brain washed in to thinking that anything other than their device is utter crap.

No seriously, WPs biggest issue is mostly down to FUD, miss information and general miss understandings, its a very different experience, it takes a wee bit of getting used to, i give you that, but everyone i know who has actually spent more that a couple of min in a shop has actually really liked it

MS as a lot to answer for, i give you that too, its PR is crap, not helped by its CEO and its marketing is crap, but one things for sure, WP is a good phone if you give it a chance, its not an iphone or android device, so dont compare it to one, its a windows phone

Excuse me, just how has MS 'ruined' skype after it's purchase? It's only just gone through approval, they couldn't do ANYTHING with it in that time... so what has changed? I haven't seen anything?

Metro UI #unintuitive'? I think you may have to turn thre phone on, or remove your gloves, as everyone else thinks it's the most intuitive ui ever on a smart phone.

Or are you comparing it to Android? With it's millions of different interfaces, no standard design or user style...

Yeah, that must be it...

Again, troll if you will, but at least back it up with supportable argument.

I was recently in the Philippines, where Skype is a way of life for families talking to fathers working abroad. I have heard a lot of complaints about bad audio, dropped connections, and not being able to make video calls any more.

Skype is having problems. I doubt they are caused by M$ but they might be caused by being taken over. I wonder if it is now harder to get money to get new hardware into the servers?

In call skype is p2p... the skype servers only act as 'connectors', once up and running the connection is direct.

If anyone has an issue in call, then I suspect that it is down to their or other party's connection.

I'm not defending MS with skype, merely pointing out that they simply have had any chance to screw it up yet...

What?

Just, what?

Are you saying that microsoft are unique in saying that their next product will be better than the current one?

When wp7 came out, and people slated it for it's shortcomings, they said it would be fixed in the next version.

the vast majority were. But still, some shortcomings exist, so they say that they will appear in future versions.

Are apple or google any different? Better phones, computers, consoles cars, printers, tables, lights, teapots, taps, carpets come along all the time.

As for your last paragraph, when did MS say that? In fact, they have gone out of their way to say the opposite, seeing as they make great strangth of not needing dual core for this os.

Other than that, great post.

> Are you saying that microsoft are unique in saying that their next

> product will be better than the current one?

No. The point is that for WP7 they have been saying that almost as soon as the current product has come out. This has stopped those looking at the product because it is obsolete already. Would you buy an 800 knowing that 'any day now' it will be dumped and replaced by a dual-core, HD capable phone. Why not buy an Android that is there now.

> when did MS say that?

In the article it has: """Not getting support for HD and multi-core processors for an extra year ..."""

AFAIK, WP7 does not do enough multi-tasking to warrant dual-core, and may not even support dual-core at present. Certainly there is restriction on using these:

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/11/22/nokia-the-reason-microsoft-kiboshed-dual-core-windows-phone-handsets/

AFAIK, WP7 only does two screen resolutions: 480x160 and 800x480. HD video has to be re-encoded and has poor quality, apparently.

WP7 just does not have anything that gives it 'bragging rights', but just wait another year and you will be able to buy what is available now, or soon, from others.

@Richard

Have you heard of the developers dilema?

Release v1 of the product when there are still bits to do, but you can sell a not 100% product and use the money to fund development of the extra features. Or, wait until you've finished every feature and have a 100% complete product, but you may have gone bust by then.

Personally I'm glad I had NT4, with all its problems, and didn't have to wait for 2008 to be finished before I got the product. I'm glad I had Slackware in the early 90s before there was Fedora 15 the other day.

@ AC 31st December 2011 17:16 GMT

Umm, in this case it isn't a version 1 product. It is a version 7 product. But otherwise your point is valid. The issue is that the competitors in the marketplace have mature product on the shelves NOW and are putting even cooler stuff out SOON. 2 years ago MS had mature product on the shelves and shelved it for some the "Unobtanium 7000" which was feature-wise a step backwards from version 6. From the sound of it, it'll be another year or so for them to get back to where they were 2 years ago. But by that time, the competion will have something "even cooler". Unless Apple and Google make a major misstep (and that is a distinct possibility), and MS does something amazing at the exact same moment its competitors falter like it did with DOS, Windows Office, I don't see Winmobe 7 as anything other than the Linux based Netbook of the phone industry. Magic 8 ball keeps coming up "Try again later".

BTW - Trivial triviality - NT4's Ring0 driver model (through Server 2003) really didn't work well overall for servers stability (it was geared for workstations), hence the essential reversion to NT3.x's Ring3 model again in Server 2008. :)