Microsoft has told The Register that it has no comment on an apparently leaked copy of upgrade plans for its mobile phone operating system. The presentation, leaked to Wmpoweruser.com, predicts an upgrade to the current Mango platform in the second quarter of 2012 – dubbed Tango. Described as “products with the best prices,” …
re: You may not like it, but others certainly do!
Whether WP is a good product or not is not the discussion, WP is a niche and the masses just don't care. Time is changing.
WP is a niche? So are Macs then.
The masses aren't even aware yet...
Just a year after release and WP7 hasn't yet gotten the recognition is deserves - which is about right.
Let's face it, Android has been out for years and only this last year has it gained any traction in the public market - most people still have absolutely no idea what Android is - they just buy a phone that 'does texts, emails and PMs'.
iOS was dreadful until the 3GS came out - which I believe took a good couple of years+? The first two iPhones were crap, but the 3rd was the first sign of Apple actually starting to create a usable product.
WP7 is gaining some small awareness, and it will get more as those who get them and are happy with them (and the rate of user satisfaction that I generally hear is wayyyyyy more than the satisfaction of the Android userbase) spread the word around. My fiancee just got one and at first she was all thumbs, then after a couple of days she was spouting on about how awesome the phone is.
I like ICS - I hate to admit, since Google is the scummiest POS company I know of, but I'll give it it's due, and Android will keep selling like hot cakes for a while...but once the masses start to awaken to easily-reachable data, private emails that aren't scanned for ads, and a flowing, everything-in-one-place line-of-thinking, they'll be looking for WP7.
But, let's face it - it's all down to marketing, not the product, and if MS don't pull their fingers out and start buying off phone shop owners and sales managers their staff aren't going to get trained or given MS phones, and so the shops won't put them out front.
yep, you're absolute right. Macs are a niche. You can hardly state Macs dominate the desktop market, do you?
His point was we should disregard WP7 because it's niche. I was simply illustrating that a Mac is also a niche product, which by his logic, should therefore also be disregarded. You completely missed that.
you do realise that you cant say that kind of thing here?
i completely agree with you tho but we must remain quiet if you dont want to get bombed with down votes/
Its funny, im obviously too stupid to use Android and actually like it, but i have both of them on this same device for learning reasons, so its fair reasoning that i might have a good understanding about how both of them function without differences in hardware getting in the way, and dispite having a good head start android just isnt what i want, i want a phone that works out of the box, with extras that work out of the box. If i want a computer in my pocket id reinstall Windows Mobile again, and i do still use WM on a different device, WP7 is a phone, not a pocket pc, not a android or ios device, its a phone!
I dont understand this constant need of android users to belittle WP users, do they not have anything else to do, like work perhaps? or maybe i should start talking about things too, like malware or perhaps trully CRAP performance on devices that are so low end market they are barely better than a calculator, or maybe i should talk about inter-version app compatibilty, or OS upgrades, or BT profile support, i could go on but im not, because thats unfair to cherry pick bad points, WP7 Android and iOS are NOT perfect, none of them are, if you like one OS over another then GOOD FOR YOU, i trully hope your happy, i also hope you dont become a victim to vendor lockin because the only person to lose out in such cases is you,
Each to their own.
You know, if you lot did this amount of slagging off in real life, say in a work place to complete strangers or infact even people you know, you honestly think they would continue to give you the time of day let alone anything else?
Net Anonymity is not an excuse
Meanwhile BADA outsells microsoft.
Despite all the media attention and multitude of people claiming they like Windows phone, it remains a dog in sales. It has a market share of 2%, and still hasn't overtaken the old windows mobile. Aven things like BADA sell better.
Seriously, why the media attention for such a marginal player?
Multiple awards for best mobile OS of 2011
An app store that reached 50,000 apps faster than Android did
The top three rated contract phones on Amazon.com are all Windows Phones
In fact, the only metric by which WP7 is lagging is sales, but that will come.
Does that answer your question? Would you like a list of the awards WP7 has won?
Bada sells on CHEAP phones, not because it's any good. Like everything cheap sales volume does not equate to profits, quality or any other metric, it sold because it was cheap, that's it.
Windows Phone 7 actually has a lot of merit and neither of the others is perfect is it? Why doesn't it sell more is a difficult question, but there is great potential there. Unfortunately there is a large segment of the tech (or like to think they are tech) sphere that childishly hate Microsoft purely because it is Microsoft (f&&k knows why, they've done a lot to advance the industry, jealousy over success perhaps?). Bottom line is MS have been so successful because many of their products are actually reasonably good, they get a job done and they have cultivated a productive ecosystem in x86, there is no reason to think they can't do the same again with phones given time.
PS. I am a Linux AND Windows Systems Admin (equally), I do both because they both have a role in practical IT infrastructure, I am no fanboy, I'm a realist.
"Titanic" got Oscars. Didn't stop it being a crap film. Come to that "Avatar" got oscars despite having no sensible story line at all, apart from "Wheeee..." And don't let me get all Kermode over "Pirates of the Carribean"...
Conversely, sales don't stop something being crap either. Titanic was the highest- grossing movie and, as you say, it was shite.
What was your point again?
That there is no point in trotting out awards as any arguement at all.
Why not? A lot of them are voted for by the phone buying public. Windows Phones hold the top three slots on Amazon.com by review rating as well.
Good point well made... Tired of people childishly bashing WP7. I'm sure it is very good.
The only reason I'm not trying it is because I'm so immersed in the Google universe - it's too much hassle to change direction now. Google would have to do something really stupid to make me change.
That's the problem MS faces....
There is a difference between trying it and switching over to it.
"Advance the rest of of the industry". Well, their contribution to the advancement of the mobile industry is to extort $5 per handset from them - something these asshole apologists NEVER address in topics like this yet is OBVIOUSLY the main reason everyone detests them.
Prediction for 2012: It continues as now. No WP7 sales except to those they force to buy from them, the Nokia partnership becomes an embarrassing failure with the great public not even aware of whatever garbage m$ churn out in their desperate attempt to gain relevance.
They still don't get it. If the person who bought the WP7 phone pulled it out in a pub everyone around would laugh at them. Its a joke, It has no apps. It has no future. It would have struggled had it been launched 3 years ago. Brining it out now, with a fraction of the features of the current Androids and iPhones and even less market awareness is a whole new kind of fail for which a word hasn't been coined yet.
It's Microsoft, and no website can afford to upset them, however crappy their hardware products might be.
You upset Microsoft, and all of a sudden all your advertising revenue dries up.
Coincidently, of course, Microsoft sponsored the El-Reg 2010 hardware awards, and guess what won... Kinect.... say no more....
Nobody at any of these websites work for free, they all rely on a slice of the advertising pie, and they are all basically pens for hire.
As there are very few GENUINE WP7 users, certainly not enough to vote en-masse and get to the top of polls (unless it's a poll hosted on some shill site like wmpoweruser.com)...
"The top three rated contract phones on Amazon.com are all Windows Phones"
The top three rated unlocked phones on Amazon.com are all Android Phones.
Amazon.com ratings are not a reliable measure of the quality of a phone OS. They are not dependent upon a consistently applied metric (i.e, your 4 star rating doesn't mean the same thing as my 4 star rating) and there is precious little Amazon can do to ensure that the reviews are honest.
Beyond about 1,000 apps, size of app store is equally meaningless-- there are at best a few dozen useful apps (not already bundled with the OS) in any app store; the rest are all toys, games, marketing tools, or spyware.
As for awards, yes I'd love to see your list of awards, including source and testing methodology, please.
" If the person who bought the WP7 phone pulled it out in a pub everyone around would laugh at them"
Well, it is only 3.8 inch
It's ALREADY low end
The reason WinPho is not on my radar is that it's already low-end. Nothing currently released performs well enough to make me update from my C905. Oh, it's also slow and ugly with crappy battery life and no serious apps or music. But mainly: it's simply not good enough. And their marketing plan is to make it *worse*. Move over, Ballmer, time to give someone who can make products a go...
What's that rustling noise? It's the sound of your credibility flying out the window.
Seriously. If you think WP7 is "slow and ugly with crappy battery life and no serious apps or music" then I'd suggest you go try a Windows Phone for yourself or else go to an optician and get your eyes tested, because the reviews online, and the opinions of users, are counter to all those assertions. It is lightning quick with no lag, and the interface has been lauded as the new mobile paradigm which makes iOS and Android look tired and old.
Seriously, your MS hatred is ridiculous and you're just making yourself look like a troll or an Apple / Google employee.
@Jim Coleman: shiny&new != any good
WP7 may be fast but my dirt cheap Xperia is more than fast enough and my wife doesn't play enough demanding games to complain about her even cheaper OSF. When will you lot learn boasting about WP7's speed doesn't impress the rest of us!
In my opinion WP7 is fugly as hell and without monopoly control to force everyone to use it I'm never going to start liking it. I don't care how much other people like it, I don't. Unlike Android, as a user I can't replace or fix the things I hate and Microsoft won't rethink that fugly tiles UI unless WP7 then WP8 completely fails in the market.
Every time I see the list of selling points for WP7 it's a list of things I've already tried and either didn't like or didn't match the way I use my phone. And Microsoft won't let me fix those choices. A tired and old UI beats any shiny new UI *that doesn't do what I want or need*.
You've never actually used one have you?
The only people that I've heard say that it's a bad user experience/interface are people who haven't used one. I know many people who've used one and say it's not for them, but they don't actually go off on extended ill informed rants.
I just love the idea
someone thinks cutting
words off half way
across the screen is a
a whole new mobile
paradigm which for
reason no other phone
Sigh. Here's that paragraph for WP7 users:
Have you tried it? or are you basing this opinion only on screenshots?
The paradigm is that the mobile screen is in effect a window into information that is too large to view. Your butchered sentence makes no sense when you realise that the whole sentence in WP7 would be visible simply by scrolling sideways. the lack of submenus in WP7 is refreshing!
I was sceptical until I bought an HTC Titan (4.7 inch screen with 2.5 - 3 days use between charges - Amazing.) after two years of Android. There's no way I'd go back now - Everything just works. I've not found an app yet that I've needed that hasn't been present, there is however, a lack of fart apps wich must also mean it's rubbish right?
I've used one
It was crap.
Although my Android phone isn't perfect, and nor are my colleagues iPhones, they're all useable. Trying WP7 in a shop (before I chose Android, btw) was a complete WTF? experience, whereas trying the other two was a "Oh, OK, I see how that works...".
Incidentally, none of the emails I get on my Xperia are scanned by anyone, because I use my own mail infrastructure thank-you-very-much. The platform made that very easy to achieve.
"the whole sentence in WP7 would be visible simply by scrolling sideways"
That is a DEFECT not an advantage. Reflowing to fit the screen width is a good usability feature, clipping it is a fashion statement. I'll choose the phone that gets the UI right before trying to look good.
That neatly sums up what's wrong with both WP7 *and* the mix of paid and genuine WP7 supporters praising every defective feature in it. Trying to pass defects off as selling points shows just how out of touch with reality the whole WP7 faction is.
I don't believe you. If you didn't like the UI that's fine, just say so, many people don't like many UIs for differing reasons. Personally, I have never found a UI without some useful or interesting features, even if I don't like the thing as a whole. Claiming you couldn't work out how it works or didn't understand it is just pathetic, it's a very nicely thought through UI and is immediately obvious to new users. I have heard many people who don't like it that much, but no-one - including all the linux die-hards that I work with, who all use Android - who hasn't been able to work out how it works at their first glance.
I had one....
The Dell Venue Pro. And it was useless.
The Bluetooth didn't work properly (so distorted it was useless) it failed to connect to Wireless networks, it made calls of its own volition, there was a distinct lack of apps for it, the look-and-feel was dull and boring and it was tethered, so was unusable for one of its main purposes as a Bluetooth modem.
There is absolutely no chance of me going back to a Windows phone. I'd rather my balls be ripped off and fried in battery acid.
MS wants to kill Nokia. then obviously pick off the carrion it desires. shimples.
not giving the techs what they want is just the beginning of what will probably end up being some really nasty decisions at the beleaguered Finnish joint.
and if someone looks at their phone wondering what the **** it is doing..it is usually them and not the phone that needs testing and optimisation.
having tried out the lumia (gf wanted it), i reckon it would be ok for her. she did not like the UI. she went and got an Apple 4$ instead. if Nokia are going to lure the lay buyer, they're going to have to do a lot better; they're certainly up against the wall with the tech crowd.
Pardon? Did you understand the implications of your silly statement?
"and if someone looks at their phone wondering what the **** it is doing..it is usually them and not the phone that needs testing and optimisation."
I thought these devices were made for people; so if normal people find a device hard, confusing or even just awkward to use, the device designer is at fault, not the user.
Still, one needs to be a good engineer and designer to know and understand that. Bad ones just blame the user and wonder why, sooner or later, their products and then they themselves fail.
Linux is a case in point (of which Android is a semi-closed variant): no attention to interface design for the majority of punters so even this free operating system fails to dislodge either Windows or OS X from the mainstream market.
What makes you think Microsoft wants to kill Nokia? Really, I'm interested.
I don't think M$ wants to kill Nokia. They need Nokia to build and sell WP7 phones.
@Jim Here you go, explained very nicely on this very site
Beware. What m$ did to Sendo is nasty, but it will explain why they are doing it again to Nokia:
Hey guys, I hate to interrupt the "your peanut butter is in my chocolate" and vice versa arguments, but it is big picture time. :)
Microsoft doesn't *NEED* Nokia at all for Winmobe7 to sell and eventually turn a profit. In fact the opposite argument could be made that Microsoft might now need Nokia out of the way because it is now wasting MS resources to try and help them get out product that isn't going to sell. Microsoft does however need Samsung (and possibly HTC as well). It is Samsung that is selling Winmobes into the US market already with established sales channels, and is now a much bigger brand in the US and Asia. Nokia on the other hand? I just looked and Nokia had indeed exited the US market entirely, and won't be able to easily get market share from a US market that has already forgotten about it. The only carrier that had any Nokia on its website was T-Mobile, and that was a Lumia that was "coming soon".
Here's another thing to contemplate for Nokia's demise - the latest market figures are indicating that Winmobe actually lost half its market share in a quarter and is down to 1.5% while Android continues a relentless march pulling marketshare from nearly everywhere now. Samsung's Android profits means it can afford to "toy" around with Winmobe until it gets better, simply as a contingency plan while not having to turn a profit. Every company needs some losses to show for tax time, so Winmobe may have found a niche in Samsung's product lineup. :) Samsung maintains a large market presence in the US (as well as manufacturing) and has been the one carrying the Winmobe torch the whole time so far. Nokia disappeared for a year and doesn't have any US presence now. Business is business, its a dog eat dog world, etc etc. Besides, Samsung has more experience with Windows Phone than Nokia so why wouldn't MS still be happy if Nokia *bytes* it? Samsung has definitely been the big winner from Nokia's complete collapse last year. And chomped into HTC's market share to boot.
After contemplating the last year, and actions taken on all sides - Truthfully, the theory that MS/Elop is intentionally tanking Nokia to grab intellectual property/patents on the cheap is sound on the surface, in spite of it sounding "tinfoil hat time". Maybe its true, maybe it isn't, I don't know, but taking your company's products off the shelves for a year because something "better is coming" is a surefire way to go bankrupt. How many people remember Osborne Computing for the best case in point? I can't believe Elop is incompetent enough to repeat nearly the same error nearly 30 years later, so all I'm left with at that point is that what is being done to Nokia was wanton and malicious by Ballmer and Elop.
Remove two of the biggest barriers
Drop the words microsoft and windows from the name of the phone os.
People see these two words and all they think of its slow bootup, 90's style OS, BSOD, stuck in work etc etc.
maybe they should call it xbox phone or xphone or anything other than m$ and windows. It doesn't even have windows it has tiles FFS!
The biggest barriers for WP is a competitor who has a large chunk of its users base brain washed in to thinking that anything other than their device is utter crap.
No seriously, WPs biggest issue is mostly down to FUD, miss information and general miss understandings, its a very different experience, it takes a wee bit of getting used to, i give you that, but everyone i know who has actually spent more that a couple of min in a shop has actually really liked it
MS as a lot to answer for, i give you that too, its PR is crap, not helped by its CEO and its marketing is crap, but one things for sure, WP is a good phone if you give it a chance, its not an iphone or android device, so dont compare it to one, its a windows phone
Microsoft may have successes in certain markets, but it is still clueless in the mobile phone market.
Don't attribute to jealousy or consumer irrationality to what it is actually: Microsoft's incompetence.
Read the non- MSFT astroturfer comments here:
Microsoft reneged on KIN, backstabbed Sendo, ruined Skype after its acquisition. The Metro UI is still unintuitive.
And you expect Microsoft to carve out the 'third ecosystem' with that kind of track record?
Excuse me, just how has MS 'ruined' skype after it's purchase? It's only just gone through approval, they couldn't do ANYTHING with it in that time... so what has changed? I haven't seen anything?
Metro UI #unintuitive'? I think you may have to turn thre phone on, or remove your gloves, as everyone else thinks it's the most intuitive ui ever on a smart phone.
Or are you comparing it to Android? With it's millions of different interfaces, no standard design or user style...
Yeah, that must be it...
Again, troll if you will, but at least back it up with supportable argument.
I was recently in the Philippines, where Skype is a way of life for families talking to fathers working abroad. I have heard a lot of complaints about bad audio, dropped connections, and not being able to make video calls any more.
Skype is having problems. I doubt they are caused by M$ but they might be caused by being taken over. I wonder if it is now harder to get money to get new hardware into the servers?
In call skype is p2p... the skype servers only act as 'connectors', once up and running the connection is direct.
If anyone has an issue in call, then I suspect that it is down to their or other party's connection.
I'm not defending MS with skype, merely pointing out that they simply have had any chance to screw it up yet...
The next step, at the end of 2012 ....
Once again Microsoft fails in marketing WP7.
Basically this is saying "forget about the current stuff, just wait until next year's model". They have done this repeatedly. WM6.5 was known to be just a 'fill in' until 7. When 7 came out with many shortfalls the message was 'wait for 7.1'. Then Mango was going to be where it was at, so wait for that. With Nokia it was 'don't buy any current phones, we will have WP7 by Xmas'. Then they announced the 800 and another, but you will have to wait for that.
Now they will have dual core and better graphics (essential for bragging rights) in a year's time. The current lot is inferior, so just you wait.
Are you saying that microsoft are unique in saying that their next product will be better than the current one?
When wp7 came out, and people slated it for it's shortcomings, they said it would be fixed in the next version.
the vast majority were. But still, some shortcomings exist, so they say that they will appear in future versions.
Are apple or google any different? Better phones, computers, consoles cars, printers, tables, lights, teapots, taps, carpets come along all the time.
As for your last paragraph, when did MS say that? In fact, they have gone out of their way to say the opposite, seeing as they make great strangth of not needing dual core for this os.
Other than that, great post.
> Are you saying that microsoft are unique in saying that their next
> product will be better than the current one?
No. The point is that for WP7 they have been saying that almost as soon as the current product has come out. This has stopped those looking at the product because it is obsolete already. Would you buy an 800 knowing that 'any day now' it will be dumped and replaced by a dual-core, HD capable phone. Why not buy an Android that is there now.
> when did MS say that?
In the article it has: """Not getting support for HD and multi-core processors for an extra year ..."""
AFAIK, WP7 does not do enough multi-tasking to warrant dual-core, and may not even support dual-core at present. Certainly there is restriction on using these:
AFAIK, WP7 only does two screen resolutions: 480x160 and 800x480. HD video has to be re-encoded and has poor quality, apparently.
WP7 just does not have anything that gives it 'bragging rights', but just wait another year and you will be able to buy what is available now, or soon, from others.
Have you heard of the developers dilema?
Release v1 of the product when there are still bits to do, but you can sell a not 100% product and use the money to fund development of the extra features. Or, wait until you've finished every feature and have a 100% complete product, but you may have gone bust by then.
Personally I'm glad I had NT4, with all its problems, and didn't have to wait for 2008 to be finished before I got the product. I'm glad I had Slackware in the early 90s before there was Fedora 15 the other day.
Bingo on the marketing squishiness.... Course by the time Winmobe gets dual core, the Android phones will be quads with desktop quality gpus to boot...
BTW - I've been in this biz too long. WP7 still means WordPerfect 7 to me. :)
@ AC 31st December 2011 17:16 GMT
Umm, in this case it isn't a version 1 product. It is a version 7 product. But otherwise your point is valid. The issue is that the competitors in the marketplace have mature product on the shelves NOW and are putting even cooler stuff out SOON. 2 years ago MS had mature product on the shelves and shelved it for some the "Unobtanium 7000" which was feature-wise a step backwards from version 6. From the sound of it, it'll be another year or so for them to get back to where they were 2 years ago. But by that time, the competion will have something "even cooler". Unless Apple and Google make a major misstep (and that is a distinct possibility), and MS does something amazing at the exact same moment its competitors falter like it did with DOS, Windows Office, I don't see Winmobe 7 as anything other than the Linux based Netbook of the phone industry. Magic 8 ball keeps coming up "Try again later".
BTW - Trivial triviality - NT4's Ring0 driver model (through Server 2003) really didn't work well overall for servers stability (it was geared for workstations), hence the essential reversion to NT3.x's Ring3 model again in Server 2008. :)
Why did Nokia go with Microsoft?
Symbian was the best untill....
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