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back to article Lumia sales fail to set world alight

Nokia's Lumia handset is barely shifting at all, according to figures from consumer price-comparison site Mobiles Please, though it still manages to be the best selling Windows Phone. Mobiles Please bases the stats on more than 5,000 sales across its family of sites during November, and finds that the Nokia Lumia 800 made up …

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Mirror-image of Google and Motorola...

"When I am King...", no. 218: ...I will ban all software patents, anywhere, ever, with anyone continuing to try and create them, being lobbed headfirst into a den of angry hippopotami.

I look at my N8, and think I'm going to run it until it either dies, its camera fails, or it will no longer connect to any networks or services I need (whichever is sooner). Then, I am REALLY not looking forward to finding its successor...

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Boffin

Or until Elop gets the boot, Ballmer too and everyone prays to God Nokia secretly kept ensuring Android will run on the hardware currently being wasted on WP7 so it's launch isn't too painful. Because lets face it, if The Beast did own Nokia the phones can only get worse - they've just had all this time with what's left of Nokia doing what they do best, how on earth can a software only company with 100% meddling now improve things?

They clearly only wants the IP, and its looking more and more like this was the plan from the start.

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Windows

Microsoft's doing a 'Sendo'.

I've said it before.

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I said the same thing on day one, it's only about...

...one final target: to simply pick up Nokia's very effective hardware mfr'ing and distribution operations for Ballmer's ashtray change (yeah, I know, the angry bald fat beancounter fart does not smoke.)

If in the meantime they manage to buy market share, so be it... but at the end it's all about Microkia, nothing else.

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yeah, just what people want, a phone that BSODs

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WTF?

As a pose to the Android platform that's bloated, sluggish, fragmented to hell and of such piss-poor quality that they practically give them away?

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Trollface

Eggcorn

I love that one - 'as a pose to' instead of 'as opposed to'.

Classic. Cheered up my miserable day.

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And thank you for my new fact for the day. 'Eggcorn'. Brilliant.

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Even if you can't do facts, try spelling...it's 'opposed to'!!!

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Trollface

As a pose to

So how's the voice recognition on your phone working out for you?

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FAIL

Lame GUI

Been looking to buy a new phone recently and those huge square "icons" on the Lumia really just don't do it for me. Have MS learned nothing from what their successful opposition are doing? It looks so last century it's untrue. With screens of such resolution and colour depth to have such 1 dimensional icons is just plain barmy. I never looked past that, maybe the underlying experience is good, but first impressions count big-time.

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@FunkyEric

And yet on using Wp7 for the first time I found it refreshing and a good alternative to what's out there now.

I recently borrowed a friends iPhone and was shocked at how antiquainted it looked - all those icons, all those colours, with different shapes and notifications scattered all over the place. It was all so "2007" to be honest.

People see the tiles on adverts or in shop windows and turn away becasue they think it looks "toy-like" - but they could not be further from the truth. Live tiles are far more dynamic, can display far more information to the user at-a-glance than *anything* Apple ro Google has on their phones (not without thrid-part plugins). Add to that a very sophisticated (yet easy-to-setup) integration system for Facebook, Twitter etc and you've got a phone that made me love USING my phone again - just like the original iPhone did.

I do genuinely believe most of the doubters would hold their hands up and credit Microsoft for what they've done, if they took the time to use it - proplery USE it.

Such a shame.

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Time to properly use it...

Consider that Karma, most windows users have never used anything else either and would probably prefer something else if they took the time to properly use it.

I've seen plenty of people who, after using linux or mac for long enough to get accustomed to it, never want to touch windows again.

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@Phoenix50

You don't actually know anything about Android, do you? It is just as capable of placing at-a-glance widgets on the home screen as WP7.

And as regards your previous comment, I don't find it at all bloated or sluggish, and neither is fragmentation an Android problem, it has been created by HTC et al adding their own shite and locking it down.

GJC

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Who are Mobile Please?

Well at least I've heard of them now.

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Anonymous Coward

Bye Bye Nokia

The MS partnership is an all-or-nothing deal for Nokkers. Seems like it isn't working but let's wait for the Q4 results in Jan. Still though, Jo Harlow is loving WP7. If it doesn't work out then that's the end of Nokia really, I doubt anyone who previously worked for them would go back to the bad management, poor practices and uncompetitive wages (unless you're in Finland and stuck for choice). Their senior management have burned many bridges.

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Alien

Microsoft have no plan here... and they're missing this one, entirely.

As the beneficiary of the "special relationship" with Microsoft, you'd think these things would be far better coordinated. Microsoft's done this kind of thing before... they nearly pulled it off, when it was Microsoft and Toshiba pushing HD-DVD, and that was against everyone else in CE.

So the best Nokia could produce is a recycled N9 with candy colors and a slightly faster CPU? What the heck has Elop been doing the last year-and-a-half? Oh, yeah, firing people. So this phone is not even slightly competitive with even mid-tier phones like the iPhone 4 and all those Androids. Who is this for? No wonder that, well past a year since Windows 7 Phone shipped, the base of all Windows Phone varities is still shrinking.

And they've really missed the boat on this. Ok, sure, Microsoft's original idea (which they played in the states, not sure about elsewhere) was essentially marketing W7P to people who didn't already use smartphones. Their assumption was typical Microsoft... people don't use smartphones because they're complicated. Nope. My 80 year old Mom mastered the iPhone 3GS in a about a day, once my sister offered to pay for it. People don't use smartphones because they don't want to spend an extra $20-$30 a month for data charges. They didn't understand this with the Microsoft Kin either... an amazingly epic failure, shut down in a couple weeks with nearly zero sales.

What about gaming? Windows has a few fans, just as you'll find rabid W7P advocates here and there (I think they all owned Ataris in the early 90s), but most people endure Windows at best. But they L-O-V-E the X-Box. This was an obvious opportunity. It's apps that keep iPhone fans loyal, and guess what... iOS is the top mobile gaming platform... blew right past Sony and Nintendo. MS already has the Zune store, and with a bit of surgery (no more Microsoft points, actual money maybe) it could be appealing. But here's a dud of a phone as the apex of W7P.. the Lumia 800 has a much slower GPU than the iPhone 3GS. The old, dusty, free-with-contract iPhone 3GS. It's even candy colored, both phone and UI.. what kid could resist.

Oh, wait, every one of them. Kids get iPods Touch before they even get dumb phones. They're pre-treated to want the iPhone. Some may find Android along the way, but Windows Phone? Isn't that for old people?

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Trollface

What I found interesting

What I found most interesting is that the Apple iPhone can no longer lay claim to the most widely sold smartphone model as they have attempted to claim in the past!

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Inevitable

Apple used to sell just one model. And they sold the most smartphones of any single vendor. Now Apple sells three models, actively, and Samsung sells more units.

Though technically, there are a bunch of slight variations all called Galaxy II. Even within one model Samsung's got more variety than Apple's own full line.

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Given that in some stores online the Lumia 800 is the best selling handset, and that some retailers are expressing very positive sales experience, I have to question this one.

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Holmes

Given it matches up with the FT report indicating the Lumia failed to make the top-10 I'd question your anonymous online stores instead.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/822aec78-27ed-11e1-a4c4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1hI8H0lR9

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Devil

Some stores?

Second hand shops or Poundland?

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FAIL

Can't buy them if you can't find them

I'm hardly surprised when they're just not available. The Reg ran a story yesterday about O2's website saying they don't sell them, when they've said they will. Even today, the O2 shop site still says this phone does not exist.

Sad thing is I'm really interested in the Windows 7 Phone - but trying to buy one is not exactly easy.

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How not easy?

How is buying not easy, go online, couple of clicks and your done.

I presume youve heard of Amazon, Expansys, Clove ect.

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Be fair the Lumnia was lauched in mid November, so when in that month did the do the survey. It has OS that is loudly pilloried by the critics and fanbois may of whom have not given it a chance. I have one and a Samsung Omnia 7. I have had the Omnia for a year. Windows Phone 7.5 is a good phone OS and worth a second look. The Lumia is a good Phone and is worth considering.

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WTF?

Huge pinch of salt...

Or alternatively, perhaps "Mobiles Please" (whoever they are) just don't have any decent offers for Windows Phones. They're certainly not a site that I'd be buying from.

This figure sounds like absolute tripe to me, and here a more detailed breakdown of why:

http://wmpoweruser.com/phone-comparison-site-claims-nokia-sold-only-180-lumia-800s-in-uk-so-far-needs-to-check-their-maths/

Nokia sold only 180 phones in the UK? Garbage. The Lumia is still listed in the top selling phones on a variety of sites, including Vodafone and Three. I think "Mobiles Please" have a hugely inflated view of their significance in the mobile space.

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Anonymous Coward

You might be right. Of the 700,000 Android devices activated each day 0.17% would be 1190. 180 is actually 0.0257%. A market share known in Redmond as BD - that's "Ballmers Dick": tiny and shrinking daily.

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> The Lumia is still listed in the top selling phones

You are confused. Those sites are not putting the phones in the 'best' page because of the numbers sold, they are putting them there because they will make the best profit if anyone buys those.

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talking with real figures

I am using an app which also counts the number of windows phone in the wild. The app is around number 60 most popular in the marketplace and has 180,000 users worldwide. The Nokia Lumia has gone to 7% within the last 5 weeks, has sold the same as the htc trophy sold in the last 13 months. The htc mozart is at 19% in the UK. That gives me 1010 Lumias in the UK that have installed the number 60 application. Difficult to say what's the difference between No 60 and No 1, but I don't think 60,000 Lumias sold in the uk is unrealistic. So compare this to the other article.

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Pint

60,000 in total = 8.57% of Androids daily 700k. As a percentage of a day this is 2.05 hours. So, every day at 2:03am Android has activated more handsets than WP7 has shifted all together.

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Yeah, Right...

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit on this.

Currently the Lumia is:

8th and 9th best selling phone for Vodafone

6th best selling phone for Orange

3rd best selling phone for 3

That will generate more than 0.17% market share.

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Anonymous Coward

And i'm

calling bullshit on your claims, and I have never seen anyone with one, nor do I know anyone buying one or even wanting one.

Most are still too busy laughing at them...

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Nokia and the pundits actually seem to agree...

While Nokia claimed the Lumia 800's first week was their best ever, even they lowered their estimated sales. Some pundits had estimated 2M sales before launch.. last week Forbes and one other dropped their estimates to about 500K. That can still mean a bunch of phones go out the door from specific vendors, but it's pretty weak sales. And it's not even clear if they're talking sell-though or just sales to vendors.

Keep in mind... Android's doing 700K per day these days. My new Samsung Galaxy Nexus was one of those, last week. This is the kind of smartphone you need for a top-of-the-line phone in the USA: 1280x720 SAMOLED screen (ok, most have qHD like the iPhone 4/4S, a few are even still successful at 800x600, like the SII), dual core CPU, fast GPU, 4G radio (unless you're Apple). Even mid-tier phones support 4G, probably still dual core, maybe a more moderate screen.

And sure, not everyone's a techie. But those who are not often ask the techies. Or just buy Apple. They can't really be counting on low-information buyers who have good feelings for Microsoft. Or.. hmmm... maybe that's precisely the market, and the problem.

They may not be entirely ignoring the issue. I can't imagine the Lumia 800 going anywhere in the USA for more than many $100 on-contract. Nokia is rumored to be readying the Lumia 900 for February introduction here. Apparently very much the same: 1.4GHz single-core CPU, weak GPU, only 512MB DRAM, but possibly with LTE/4G and a 4.3" OLED screen (same low resolution, though). Specs could change, and you can find five or six better options at any Verizon store today, unless you find you must have Windows 7 Phone at all costs. But definitely more competitive... the iPhone 4S is the only leading smartphone with less than 4" or so screen.

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Go to the websites and have a look yourself. I took those positions off of Vodafone, Orange and 3 yesterday.

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Ermm you don't REALLY believe those charts do you?

It's a stupid way of selling the phones they want to sell.

They want to sell Lumia to dump stock, so raise it in the charts....

Come on wake up...

Ever walked into Game/Gamestation/HMV, all their charts are the same, they games up the list are those they have lots of stock of, either because it's genuinely popular (like the Galaxy S2), or because it's crap and they have craploads of stock to shift (like the Lumia).

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Let's protect the domination of our preciOS!

If you have not seen anyone with Nokia Lumia, then you must be right!

Or perhaps the buyers of Nokia are not iiiiiiiiiP tossers/poseurs? Perhaps they dont have the messianic zeal of Applistas?

And finally, how can "most" be "too busy laughing at them" if they have "never seen anyone with one"

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N9

Why not sell the N9 in markets other than Timbuktu and the far side of the moon and let's see how a "proper" Nokia smartphone sells!

(I have the white N9 on order)

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N9

I have a black N9 and most of the iPhone users I know have admitted that it's better:) Only thing that is worse right now is a smaller set of available apps. Maps, Angry birds, Skype, vpn, ssh and all the important stuff works though, so I am not really bothered about missing out on fart apps:)

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Anonymous Coward

Love my N9 as well, Elop's decision not to sell it in major markets just looks crazier every day

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Pint

N9 being sold in Brazil too.

and Nokia is heavily promoting it, would you believe that. I went for a Sony Xperia Pro, because of the real keyboard and because the N9 was about 50% more expensive than it!

It seems to be their top of the range phone here.

It doesn't seem like they are selling WP7 devices.

It would be really, really funny, but it will never happen of course, if the N9 outsold the Lumia in a developed market.

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Serious question

Can these be reflashed with Android? Look what happened to the similarly unloved HP touchpad once news it had been ported over broke...

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Ditto, I think they look nice.

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Linux

Seen an ad but not a phone

In Boringstoke there were huge banners in "Festival Place" with Nokia Lumina on them. If it wasn't for the names Nokia and Microsoft on the advert I wouldn't have known it was for a phone - it just looked like a large poster with coloured blocks on them with logos in the middle of the blocks.

Of the people at work with smart phones they are mostly Android and the rich people have Apples. I don't know anyone with a Windows phone of any kind or a Blackberry (except the ones given by corporate).

I've only ever seen one Windows phone which was given to Uni students to develop on (they hate it) and compared with the near identical Android HTC I can say that the new Windows phone platform was terrible. It is possible that the Nokia is better but I've never seen one to comment - there aren't any in the four mobile phone shops I walk past every day.

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3GS + 4 + 4S > GSII ... hahahaaa.

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US?

Has the Lumia even launched in the US yet?

It's a shame if it fails, the phone is a nice piece of kit and the OS is excellent. Sadly Microsoft's bad smell has probably done for it.

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Anonymous Coward

Microsoft need the support now of the very people its just spent the past 20 years shafting. There literally are too many who *actively* want it to fail, not just passively sit by and lets things roll out naturally. Such individuals will not touch their kit even if it is half decent, hell, they won't even take the time to look at it. Is this a shame? No. This is Microsoft - it's only if it happened to some other company you'd feel sorry for them. My prediction: disasterous sales Q4/11 + Q1/12 = Ballmer out before next summer. Get working on plan B, Nokia.

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"Is this a shame? No. THIS IS MICROSOFT!" (kicks down well)

Ok, I'm out now looking for a girlfriend.

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Anonymous Coward

I have one via work

for app development, and WP7 seems quite pleasant. Much more slick than Androids I've used (although admittedly not used an Android later than 2.3). Not a fan of the square corners of the Lumia, but it seems a reasonable phone if you can get one at a good price.

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Headmaster

more slick

that'll be slicker

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