realy
>"if we offer you the job at the salary you've asked for"
Rule one is never be the first to mention what salary you looking for - I have fired agencies (from representing me) over this.
Think your CV is crap? Your interview skills are worse
The applicant stared like a rabbit caught in headlights at the interviewer. shutterstock_job_interview_in_story He did not have a clue how to answer the question, so he decided to mumble something unintelligible because it would help him sound more clever as he racked his brain. Was it a fearsome query about lambda …
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Thursday 17th November 2011 20:04 GMT mccp
@mjwalshe
It doesn't matter who mentions salary first - the employer needs to know how much you want to be paid so it's going to be discussed. And presumably you didn't turn up for an interview without having some idea of the salary on offer?
What always amazes me is the candidates (usually young admittedly) who have no idea how much the recruiter is getting.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 20:07 GMT Windrose
Word? Sic.
"In the last week I have seen four CVs which were Word documents that displayed red wiggly lines when I opened them."
You DID set your copy of Word to spelcheck in the same language as the author of the document, yes? Yes? No? Perhaps not?
If you trust to MS Word to check a document, I certainly do not trust you to pay my salary on time.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 20:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
Oh god yes my stapler!
And my bloody biro! It's a ratty damn black Bic, why the hell do you need to steal it? The stationery store is open to all, you can take what you like, why steal my pen?
You know you hate teamwork when you use sellotape to construct an under desk holster for your pens, highlighters and rulers so that no other bastard can see them or nick them.
Bastards, stealing my pens. And the less said about my pencil sharpener the better.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
Stating the bleedin' obvious.
And that's not meant as an insult. I was recently giving advice to a young 'un going for a Saturday job at WH Smiths.
The people you are interviewing are giving up their time, show some courtesy in return. Research the firm as they have researched yours. Be on time. Be polite. If you don't know the answer to a question - admit it !
He got the job against a lot of competition.
One thing you don't mention though, I see interviews as a two way process. I am making sure the company is suitable for me as much as vice versa.
In that respect: be yourself. Act naturally. I would far rather that people decided they didn't like me at an interview than spend three months maintaining a false persona or working at a company I didn't fit in with while I looked for an exit.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:35 GMT IsJustabloke
Well at least you've improved your tone.... The only way I'd deal with you, based upon your CV rant, is if you had a plumb role that I was seriously interested in having.
I actually agree with most of the stuff you've written here (and in the CV one, it wasn't your advice I objected to, it was your tone) but I think there's one thing that very many recruiters / HR people forget; When they are interviewing me for a role, I am also interviewing them. Its a two way street.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 16:02 GMT Powerpointmonkey
It's a three way street
I'm a contractor who tends to end up in tech lead roles, and as such I usually end up interviewing the new hires. I've interviewed hundreds of candidates over the years, and I always go into an interview with the aim of answering three questions:
1) Can they do the job
2) Do they want the job
3) Will they fit in
The article focused on ensuring that a candidate has the best chance of getting question 1 right, but even if a candidate is technically capable of doing the job they may not want it - It could be because as an interviewer I have not done my part in selling the role or the company, or it could be because the agent / pimp has mis-sold the role to the candidate.
Even when I have a candidate who looks technically capable and who is showing signs that they want the role, I am still conscious of the team dynamics and have on occasion turned down candidates who pass questions 1 and 2, purely because I felt they would not fit in with the existing team.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 20:04 GMT Spoonsinger
Re:- It's a three way street.
Actually for a proper "contract" gig, (not a bum on seat job), it's, (from the contractors point of view) :-
1) Yep I can do that, (here's some evidence).
2) Nope haven't done that but with a bit of research and my past experience I don't see it as a problem.
3) Nope can't do that but I know someone who does, (obviously not agent friendly unless they are reasonable - which invariably they are not - and not forgetting that you have actually got to the interview by bridging that particular barrier).
4) Absolutely no idea what you are on about. Why am I here? This isn't what was outlined by the agent.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 20:12 GMT Anonymous Coward
not entirely useless
I know someone who had a job created specifically for them... It was a group he'd worked with before and they knew him. It was stuff he did day in day out...
He turned up to the interview on the day after a big night out drinking. He went to the interview without changing, hungover if not still drunk!
The job went to someone else with no experience but much better interview skills.
Anon - as I was the one who got the job :)
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Saturday 19th November 2011 01:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Symon
Forgot to add that, 6 months in, I was the one he was calling for help when he got stuck. So the interview did recognise the better candidate.
But this whole thing just reinforces my view of IT recruitment, and what's wrong with it. For most IT jobs, unless you want someone to land on their feet running, you can easily look at people without a lot of direct experience of what you want them to do. Related experience that shows you have the aptitude to do it is a perfectly fine substitute, it might take you a bit longer to get 100% up to speed, but there's no reason you can't then surpass the one's who start ahead of you!
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:43 GMT Wommit
Not quite as insulting this time.
But he forgot a number of points.
1) Dress for an INTERVIEW! Your favourite geek tee-shirt won't do. And yes, I've had an interviewee turn up in tee-shirt and jeans. Cleavage DOES NOT WORK! If it does you really, really don't want to work there. I have blackballed a candidate simply because of inappropriate dress.
2) Posture. This is important. Look as though you are interested in the interviewers and what they are saying. Even if it is a bunch of crap.
3) Say Hello, say Goodbye. Manners maketh the man. They also help make the employed.
4) Most technical managers doing the interview are probably as nervous as you are. If they feel that you are at ease, that will probably help them too. This brings major brownie points.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 13:44 GMT Imsimil Berati-Lahn
Showing Cleavage...
Certainly a major negative point if you're a chap.
Been on both sides of the desk and you're absolutely right, interviewing is probably more nerve-wracking than being interviewed. Reason being if I screw up conducting an interview, I have to endure the consequences for much longer or even potentially lose a job that I like. From the other side it's more a case of... "Nope? Rightoh. Next!"
(Coat: Well, I was that confident of rejection, I didn't bother taking it off).
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Thursday 17th November 2011 20:48 GMT LaeMing
Showing Cleavage
Is essentially saying to the interviewer 'you are a shallow chauvanist who will be swayed by a bit of boobie on show'. I'm pretty sure most men would find such a presumption about them offensive! (I am also pretty sure most men aren't that shallow, despite what the mass media likes to portray).
Also pretty sure if a company had management that WAS swayed by a bit of boob on show, I would not be comfortable working in such a place anyway.
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Friday 18th November 2011 00:03 GMT SirTainleyBarking
All for a bit of cleavage
I was interviewed by a lady who thought a corset like ensemble was the height of office chic.
But frankly if its early in the morning and I've travelled a long way to get there, I can do without that staring at me. It said volumes about the company, and I think my enthusiasm showed through in spades after that. I'll echo the many comments above that say that an interview is a two way process. I've walked away from jobs where I think the company come across as arses.
Life is really too short
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:43 GMT Arrrggghh-otron
Constructive...
Well that was a bit more constructive than your last piece...
But recruiters and HR people who don't appreciate the inherent flexibility and cross over that IT skills infer still don't help recruit the best people.
I've had recruiters ask me if I had FTP as a skill. Really? FTP is a skill? I can use an FTP client without thinking about it, but I've never considered it a skill before, it's just another utility. I can setup an FTP server on various OSes without too much trouble, but I've always just considered it part and parcel of the job.
Also just because I might be selling my time, doesn't mean I make a good sales man, otherwise I would be interviewing for a sales role...
The pub test is interesting. We actually used that as part of an interview process at once, talking the 3 favourites to the pub (at different times I might add) for an informal chat. The candidates relaxed and we were able to chat freely about tech and that gave us a real feel for their aptitude and attitude.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:43 GMT Kubla Cant
Sound advice
So sound, unexceptionable advice like this and the previous article result in flaming. I'd be sad about that, were it not for the fact that I might be competing for jobs with the people who think it's unreasonable.
Just one mystery. The author "worked for >25 years as a programmer" and is now a head-hunter? Doesn't head-hunting involve interacting with people?
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:43 GMT Boris the Cockroach
And for interviewers
stop with the silly stupid and irrelevant questions
If I've just been grilled by senior management on my leadership and team playing abilities, and grilled by the technical guy on implementing a solution to getting a fanuc robot to sing and dance, the last thing I want is the token plonker from HR asking How do I fry an egg.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 14:18 GMT Hollerith 1
Sometimes the weird questions are the best
I've had stupid questions thrown at me, too, sometimes because they were plonkers, and sometimes to see if I was fast on my mental feet. The trick was to take it seriously, if asked seriously, to give an intelligent answer, and to give it a little spin to flatter them a little for having the brains or flair to ask such a question. Tricky, but as I am paid to use my brain, it provided an early demo that I do indeed have one.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:43 GMT Cosmo
A much better article than last week
And having done some interviews recently, I can agree with some of the things you raised.
It's amazing how many people turn up late, smelly and unprepared.
Have some enthusiasm, research the company that you're applying to and don't come over as a smart ass.
The most annoying person I find when interviewing is the "hero" who saved his last company from death, because everyone around him was a moron and an idiot.... apart from him of course. Normally it's the other way round.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 20:28 GMT Captain Scarlet
Scratches Head Again
Lotus Notes 7 and below User?
I agree the old interface should have been updated sooner but 8 and above is much nicer and cleaner, the webmail client in 8.5 works like the client now. System admins can be pointed to waresource which actually has some brilliant documentation.
I am alone though in my department though (they are sick of me and anything Lotus Notes related), and Notes was dumped for Outlook and outsourced.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
True stuff
I once turned up 4 hours late for an interview. With a hangover. And a black eye (it had been a seriously heavy night).
Throwing all caution to the wind I still turned up, not remotely expecting to get the job. But just trying to retrieve a tiny bit of dignity.
I got an offer 30% more than I was asking for. My first six figure salary, simply by enthusing massively over the company's product.
Punchline: The firm in question was ph**m.
(this one is going to get negtastic)
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Thursday 17th November 2011 13:45 GMT Anonymous Coward
I would have thought that someone who was a bruiser, displayed poor judgement and a balls-out devil-may-care attitude to what's acceptable, with a side order of extreme-bullshitting capabilities, would have been the ideal candidate for those shysters no?
If you'd said you killed and ate puppies for fun they'd probably have given you 50% more than you asked for.
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Thursday 17th November 2011 12:49 GMT TimS
Much better written article
I've just sat through interviews (and managed to get myself a new job along the way), and sticking to this kind of advice got me through. The technical questions myself and a number of people I know sailed through - it was the examples, honesty (about my limits) and being able to chat to the managers got me the second interview, and eventually the job.
And what surprised me most? I got this through a recruiter who took time to talk me through the role, gave me hints, a lot of prep (sheets of potential questions to try) and useful feedback after the first interview. And even agreed to go back and negotiate more money than I'd originally asked for when applying when they offered the role. Unsurprisingly, I'll happily use him again if I need to look for a new role.
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