A top Microsoft legal eagle has moaned that Android smartphones and the like are profiting from cash that his bosses have invested in research and development. "These devices have moved from having a rudimentary phone system to being a full-fledged computer, with a sophisticated, modern operating system. In doing that, they have …
And what part of the Microsoft UI does Android even resemble?
Right sentiment, wrong details. According to the Levenez timeline document, Xenix was derived from 32V, which was a 32 bit port of Version/Edition 7 for the Interdata 32 system. As far as I am aware Version/Edition 5 did not make it outside of Murray Hill.
Standing on MS's shoulders?
Soon they will be standing on their throat. Can't wait for that.
As a former Palm user I'm disappointed to see so little recognition of Palm's shoulders in debates* such as this. Rudimentary phone system my arse! I had touchscreen, apps, mobile web, music, video, syncing etc in 2005, but I was a late adopter. These advancements have come from a number of different corporations but young folk these days seem to think it all started with Apple. Who is it that has the patent on combining a phone and a PDA? I believe it's HTC.
* I originally misspelt that at "debases". How Freudian!
It DID all start with Apple, with the very first PDA, the Newton. Lots of other firms have contributed since then though, Palm not least of them.
Oh correction - the first PDA was of course Psion, the Newton was the first thing to be called a PDA and was the first handheld touchscreen device.
Newton not first
Not first PDA or touch screen. It failed in the market unlike some others.
The first PDA?
Of course the Newton was the first to be called a PDA, for the then-CEO of Apple coined the term to describe what we'd be calling an "organiser" for years.
M$ dropped the ball ages ago
WinMo was embarrassing, WinPho useless by comparison unless you want a 'feature' phone that looks like a smart phone.
So this is how they can keep their mobile division profitable. Simple business practises like demanding money from competitors in exchange for protection from litigation.
I disagree with this most strongly and will fight your claim that MS dropped the ball years ago! They never had a ball to drop ...
Poor Horacio, so deluded.... and a lawyer too.
Poor M$, such a parasite on society.
Microsoft has invested for decades more money than anyone else in research and development directed toward the *obfuscation* of operating systems
quite absurd and incorrect
"These devices have moved from having a rudimentary phone system to being a full-fledged computer, with a sophisticated, modern operating system"
Android is actually based on Linux derived from Unix an OS that I was working on in 1984 and existed earlier than that, at a time when it was already ahead of where MS Windows is today and before I ever heard of MS. I fail to have any idea what patents they can be talking about. Is it not true that Windows phone 7 has only just managed to handle multi-tasking? Apple Max OSX is also built on basically BSD Unix, is that two derived from MS? I was using Unix in 1984 on a computer that could handle 30+ students logged on at once, that is not a modern operating system, but one certainly more advanced than any MS has come up with. lol
Profiting from the R&D of others
And to where exactly does MS post those cheques to Volta, Farady etc for all their hard work in developing the electricity that I beleive is a requirement for modern computing
Nope that were forced to license that for nought and to provide full documentation to allow compatible SW. Europe were fining them €1M a day for about a years and half since MS were not able to provide any documentation on how the protocol actually worked.
What gave it away?
Clue that it is a load of dangles
Clue 1... "MS"
Clue 2 ... "Lawyer"
This is the same Microsoft whose core OS is based on Quick&Dirty OS from Seattle Computer Products and the Windows interface they licensed and then ripped off from Apple in the 1980s (who in turn copied it from Xerox)? You gotta love lawyers!
A minor point, but over at http://www.apple-history.com/ they have information on the Xerox/Apple/GUI thing, with accounts by Frank Ludolph, who worked at Xerox then worked on the Apple Lisa desktop. Xerox got there first, but Apple was working on a GUI as well and a lot of the shared ideas probably go back in time to another person/entity/etc. Bruce Horn's account (http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gui_horn1) is interesting, as is Jeff Raskin's response and corrections.
How many people are complaining how rubbish Windows is whilst simultaneously posting said message from a Windows PC.
Enough to make you wonder i reckon...
First in the wild on a Falcon
> How many people are complaining how rubbish Windows is whilst simultaneously posting said message from a Windows PC.
I could be posting this from an Atari Falcon if not for the fact that Microsoft muscled most everyone else out of the home computer business. Proprietary network effects tend to quickly favor a single computing vendor.
I could migrate off of kludge clones in a heartbeat if another option presented itself.
if you steal enough a good product becomes possible
Microsoft have demonstrated that spending decades stealing from others can eventually lead to a half decent product. However inept or outright evil your company is.
What it can't do is make them more honest about that or stop them trying to harass or kill competition by fair means or foul, mostly foul ;)
As I myself use MS Windows only when forced to, refusing to touch it even at the college where I teach and hence bring a live Ubuntu usb with me.
However, assuming some people do post from MS Windows. Weren't they made use it in the first place? Schools teach MS (rarely but equally evil Apple) , colleges teach and make you use MS and force you to pay for it. MS sides with OEMs and make you use Windows whenever you buy a PC. -
On a tech site like this
a lot less than you probably think.
"So the question of whether software should be patentable is, in a sense, the same as asking whether a significant part of the technological innovation happening nowadays should receive patent protection."
No. It is down to the international treaties which the USA and many others signed up to. If the yanks want to bin those, I am sure the Chinese would be only too pleased to join in.
Now the world's population has reached 7 billion, we may need a cull - we could get by with fewer lawyers, especially IP and patent lawyers.
What it really comes down to...
...is whether allowing such patents would be of benefit to society AS A WHOLE. That is, after all, the whole point of the patent system, not to allow individual people/companies to gouge their associated industries for personal gain dis-proportionate to their contribution. Regardless of what they generally succeed in getting people to believe these days.
How come a google sized company with an army of lawyers make such a mistake of including a filesystem which ms itself depreciates?
they are an advertising company and they don't really do software?
Re: please tell → #
For the same reason USB drives use FAT based file system. Its supported by virtually all existing operating systems so making data transfer between any machine/computer trivial. This could be from a full PC to an MP3 Player
FATs not going away anytime soon even though MS has deprecated it as you say
Google is huge
The reason why better filesystems hasn't went into Windows and Mac (via IFS, not a hack) is easy as nobody cared that much and the cost of getting the certificate it requires. Tests etc. Google is big and got money. After Nokia gave up symbian android will be the only smart phone os that relies on fat for that massive complex and personal data. Its fans can keep downvoting me, hope they never have to recover hundreds of photos because of a kernel crash etc.
So, we'd better start worrying about all the work Babbage did and pay his estate dividends, and of course the work of the druids constructing stonehenge, or the ancient Chinese for the invention of the Abacus. In fact, the whole thing is based on number systems invented by... and the list goes on. Not the first time a lawyer has had to argue an unarguable argument. He will probably win too.
Well, our number system is called 'Hindu Arabic'
Which I assume means we need to send a lot of dollars to western-asia. No doubt that is how they intend to support themselves once they are out of oil. Will the US invade them in their "War on Numeracy?"
"war on numeracy?"
Judging by other wars in their "War on X" range, it would be "War on Numbers", not numeracy. X has to be something that, technically speaking, you can't fight against.
years of research....
Patent: 5,664,133 Context sensitive menu system/menu behavior...
A method and system are described for a computer system for retrieving and presenting a set of commands in the form of a pop up context menu for a selected object. The context menu is displayed in the proximity of the selected object and is determined primarily by the class of the selected object and secondarily by the particular container in which the selected object resides at the time of selection. The context menu displays a number of useful features which enable the user to quickly and easily invoke commands upon the selected object.
I wonder how many years of research it took them to come up with this one... It is a small miracle you can still type your own name without tripping some ridiculous patent.
I hold the patent on posting examples of ridiculous software patents to comment threads about software patents. Pay up, sunshine.
Anyone stood on the shoulders of Microsoft would still be waist deep in their bullshit.
ah aha ... so it means that the Linux developers wait eagerly that some wonderful idea is filed as patent by MS (ah no, he said no ideas, way to implement, that is) , and then translate in Linux code.
Well, in windows 8, Metro interface, there are many ideas coming from Android: the multitasking without any close command; the separation of OS and apps, so you can change OS without reinstalling evrything, and so on
"And to where exactly does MS post those cheques to Volta, Farady etc for all their hard work in developing the electricity that I beleive is a requirement for modern computing"
If Android stands on MS shoulders, MS stands on Toronto-based i4i Inc.?
Toronto-based technology company i4i Inc.had it's software stolen by MS, who had years earlier pinched the name Internet Explorer as well as some hardware utility.
I guess if Henry Ford had been like Jobs, we would be driving black cars.
Hopefully saner heads will prevail and patent law, like other international activities, will be governed by an internationally established common practice that will be adopted by all countries.
It's a conspiracy I tell you! Once again, when I think they can't get any more crazy they go and prove me wrong.
OK, I am usually unsympathetic to companies that litigate instead of innovate
But this MS scheister really lost me when he started spouting off about how MS invested billions promoting the "efficiency of the operating system"
Two words in response to that--Windows Vista....
Is this a real ms lawyer
He says "So two different means of getting to the same end would be independently patentable,"
So, unless the source is exactly the same and compiled with the same tools nothing is going to infringe ms patents. Game over
more bald-assed lies
from a pack of thieves.
Easy mistake to make (especially if you are a lawyer), you mean toes.. not shoulders..
"billions of dollars in investments"
In the case of Metro, for instance, 4 tons of Bolivian marching powder and a shipping container full of finger paints. These things aren't cheap.
I notice he calls Droid "a full-fledged computer, with a sophisticated, modern operating system." Evidently he's one of Ballmer's "Computer Scientists™".
Get that man a box of tissues
and ask him to google the inventor of the wheel - which MS's computer still rolls around on.
Some very prior art
"One interesting characteristic of Star Trek: The Next Generation—one that separated it from the original series and most of the early films—was its widespread use of smooth, flat, touch-based control panels throughout the Enterprise-D"
I know an ancestor of mine invented the wheel. I think I'm due a HUGE payout anytime soon.
Pot Kettle Black
"Microsoft who made all these billions of dollars in investments". Yeah and made all those tens of billions profit. They owe us I reckon.
If Android stands on Microsoft's shoulders
Then Windows wobbles precariously on IBM and Xerox PARCs.
I thought lawyers were smarter than that.
1) By the nature of this thought, either Adam and Eve or Cro-Magnon should get a cut.
Who knows, maybe will all end up with MS Stock and then we won't have to worry about the economy anymore.
Let the lawyers figure this one out.
2) Microsoft licensee of Xenix, a multi-user multi-tasking operating system provided with RadioShack hardware. But I'm sure they would have never borrowed any technological info.
3) Just because Microsoft doesn't use or acknowledge the Unix/Linux doesn't mean they aren't looking at it's code very hard everyday. (?barrow from your neighbor lately?
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