Grubby smut gazers will be forced to "opt in" to view porn under government-backed restrictions to be imposed on ISPs. PM David Cameron will propose a raft of measures today at a Downing Street meeting with Christian charity group Mothers' Union. The restrictions are designed to protect children from sexualised content. A …
"Most religions preach pacifism."
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12)
"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." (Exodus 22:19)
"Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood." (Jeremiah 48:10)
You and I have obviously been reading different holy books...
I just read the article about how much the government has saved by closing half the pointless websites they had been squandering our cash on ... where do I sign or vote to add this ridiculous censorship thing to that list? I'm quite sure the whining types who would use that site are far too capable of whining already, without giving them a one-stop bitbucket for it!
Bad enough I had to contact my mobile phone provider and ask them to stop censoring my Net access there, now the idiots want to extend this to the regular Internet too?
And here I thought adults could do, you know, adult things, without the goverment on their ass. It looks like on the internet, everyone is presumed to be a child, just in case. Lovely
Needless to say this is some bullshit and trivial to avoid. Meanwhile it's yet another censoring of content on the internet pushed through under the guise of 'protecting the children'. Who's going to protect us adults is anyone's guess.
To paraphrase an old Internet quote
It would seem that in the eyes of the government:
"On the Internet, no one knows you aren't a child."
"Hi, BT? Yea I'd like you to give me access to lots of internet pornography."
Conversations i see happening all over the country. Or not. Congrats DC on killing off an industry in this country in one blow (chortle).
Less embarrassing to move to another ISP.
"May I ask why you're moving away from us?" "Because... I'm dissatisfied with your service." Which would be perfectly true.
Love how the British
Seem to have such qualms about discussing sex and pornography, yet are the inventors of dogging. Plus give them a vodka or five and they'll jump in bed with almost anyone.
Nearly everyone likes a bit of porn anyway, what's the big deal. Just don't ask for it in a disgusting way, but surely there's no problem is asking: Can I have access to the adult sites please, thanks"
Learn to punctuate properly
That should be "Because I'm dissatisfied, with your service".
Back in the 1980s, when the 0898 adult phone lines were in operation, it was decided to make access to those lines "opt in" so everyone, by default, was opted out and, if they wanted to phone those numbers, they had to contact BT and ask someone to switch on that feature.
Not surprisingly, the number of people phoning those number plummeted and the Operators of those legitimate businesses were almost driven to bankruptcy because of the censorship of their provision of perfectly legal content.
Fortunately sanity, at last, prevailed, and the default was switched to "opt out", but it's a salutary warning of what happens when Governments try to do something "For The Good Of the Children!"
DO NOT google these terms, NSFW, NSFA, you have been warned
"Nearly everyone likes a bit of porn anyway, what's the big deal. Just don't ask for it in a disgusting way, but surely there's no problem is asking: Can I have access to the adult sites please, thanks""
Bah! Call them up complaining that you can no longer access goatse. Get your friend to do the same thing, but "two girls, one cup." Lather, rinse, repeat. See how many BT phone operators end up off the lines with nervous twitches on the inside of a week. ;)
I wonder if this will be a checkbox in a portal, or are people going to have to start telling someone in the call centre they're a wanker?
USA madness without the USA safeguards
Welcome to the worst of all worlds - USA levels of undue and inappropriate influence on politics by religious nutters without any of the protections offered by the 1st and other amendments.
Time to immigrate to Germany I guess.
Might help for a couple of years, but THEY(tm) are up to the same kind of bovine excrement over here. Not yet as far gone, because there's still a healthy number of people objecting, but it appears they're getting there...
We've even had our first creationists interfering with the equivalent of school boards. Laughed out of the room this time, but it's telling they were heard at all IMHO.
If you are a parent:
1) Install your own firewall/filter and configure it yourself; and
2) Monitor/be-with your child when they use the Internet
If, as a parent, you are not capable of the above, I have one question: Why the bloody hell are you letting your child use a system you do not understand? It's not hard, go to a night class, speak to friends, hire someone to teach you.
Do you want the state to filter the "News at Ten" in case wee Johnny gets upset at the dead bodies? Here's a clue:
1) It's the news; and
2) Wee Johnny should be in his bloody bed!
Seriously. These filters are blunt tools. They will end up blocking sexual health, family planning and "controversial" pages. We need state-sponsored censorship like we need a hold in the head.
YOUR child - YOUR responsibility and if you can't deal with that, don't procreate. It is that simple.
Your logical arguments don't work with the Mothers Union
You don't seem to realise that not all parents are capable of even knowing where to start setting up web filtering, you're an IT guy and you probably don't even begin to understand how difficult this is for some people.
Oh, so because a parent is too lazy to go an learn something responsibility should be abdicated to the state? Get real.
I had no issue with the state providing advice, but imposing censorship just because a few Bible-bashing, lazy parents can "save the children" is not an answer.
They went to the other to copulate and procreate, they can go to the bother of a few classes/books.
Hell, I don't demand that the state heat all water to a temperature I want just because my taps don't work; I either fix them myself or hire someone who can. The Internet is no different.
YOUR child - YOUR responsibility.
OP @ 12:05 You clearly missed...
"It's not hard, go to a night class, speak to friends, hire someone to teach you."
@AC 12:05 - Some IT guys ARE trainers, you know
"You don't seem to realise that not all parents are capable of even knowing where to start setting up web filtering, you're an IT guy and you probably don't even begin to understand how difficult this is for some people."
Actually, considering that I spent an entire summer teaching basic computer literacy workshops for primary school teachers a little over a decade ago, I have a VERY good idea how hard this is for some parents to understand. Yet, by the end of 12 hours of training, all of those teachers knew, at the very least, how much they did or did not know, which meant that they knew when they needed to call for help. Most of them were comfortable using the computer, and after a couple weeks of practice, were ready for even more training.
Computers have changed a lot since the summer of '97, but the fact remains - these are skills that can be taught, even to people who are clearly frightened of the idea of a computer and the internet. If you can't handle a class to bring you up to speed, pay someone to help you. If you can't afford either, then you can't afford the monthly ISP fees, much less the computer necessary to use one. At least around here, the classes are subsidized and available at such low cost as to be nearly free. It simply requires the dedicated effort.
> even better, trying to forge a meaningful relationship
Well it doesn't sound like it'll be with any members of the Mother's Union :)
The Internet is for Porn
When did the Mother's Union become an arm of government?
Yes Dave, global economic crisis and all you can do is parent for people who can't be bothered to do it themselves.
At least they're not
Jim 'think of the children' Gamble.
Although they probably all go to the same dinner parties.
So is it going to be as class as the mobile solution where you couldn't use such evil sites as google translate and computer games forums?
The internet is for adults, not children. Why can't they look after their own kids and leave the rest of the world alone? Its called parenting, look it up.
And what is next on this religious/political moralists agenda? No work on Sundays? Nothing the gov deems to be harmful to public morals? Inconvenient for their business buddies?
I had hoped we had seen the last of the Nanny State for a while, but sadly political 'leaders' (media whores, more like) just can't resist the temptation to meddle in people's private lives.
You really seem pissed off about an opt in porn filter, is it really that bad?
The internet is not for adults or for children, it's for everyone. It's not your personal playground, just like the rest of the world there are some places that are not for kids and some places that adults probably won't want to go.
Do you let kids into Pubs, Strip Clubs, Bookies, etc. etc? No, it's not nanny state, it's just accepted as sensible.
@AC 22:25 GMT
You don't get it do you? It is not the existence of a pr0n filter should *I* choose it, it is the mentality that 'gov knows best' and once such a system is in place, there will be function creep.
"Do you let kids into Pubs, Strip Clubs, Bookies, etc. etc?"
No I would not, and that is acting responsibly.
Delegating parental supervision & education about the world in general, and the Internet in particular, to a gov-mandated filter is NOT acting responsibly.
> PM David Cameron will propose a raft of measures today
..and I propose that PM David Cameron should shut the fuck up.
Seriously Dave, pandering to some gobshite minority group who think Victoria is still queen is not good policy. Especially when it inevitably turns out that a large number of that group has a subscription to nipple clamper's monthly.
ISP filters do not protect children; being a half decent parent protects children.
What this is basically saying is people dont feel they can stop themselves from looking at "snuggle movies" so can the big nanny ISP please monitor all the content and block anything that *they* (whoever they are) deem inappropriate.
Are people incapable of deciding if they want to look at things themselves now?
Who gets to say if something is of an "adult" nature or not - what about a gripping documentary site about female genital mutilation? How about help-sites for teenagers suffering from gender identity crisis (etc)?
Are these of an "adult" nature or not?
At the end of the day, horny wank-addicts will crack one out over a lingerie catalogue, so should we block that as well?
There is a general rule of thumb that has pretty much ensured in the last 15 or so years I have been online, I have never been subjected to anything I would find inappropriate (BNP sites for example). I simply dont visit them. No need to filter, because I am fairly sure there are others who actually want to look at them...
It seems we replaced the overpowering big-brother, excessive law-creating labour party with an equally overpowering, big-brother, excessive law-creating tory party. Wonderful.
The Off Switch
It's already fitted as standard. Learn no use it.!
Censorship here we come
And so it continues...
1) Child pornography
2) Copyright infringement
3) All pornography
Oh joy. First stages of Internet censorship in the UK. Time to fire up the proxies/darknets/VPNs etc...
First stages? You've not been paying attention, matey!
The porno bush...
...is unlikely to re-appear. ISPs will make it as easy as possible to get round such measures or revenue will move to other ISPs who do.
Who would pay for a phat 50MB connection in that has no pr0n ?
(please don't answer that)
No need to ask. No need to know.
Stupid idea then.
Stupid idea now.
Someone please remind me what percentage of web traffic is porn? Get rid of that and filesharing and only gamers will need a phone line! If anything, make it so you have to opt-out. That's a much less embarrassing phone call, and easily faked in front of the wife ;-)
"Christian charity group Mothers' Union."
Great. So "Call me Dave" reckons that bigoted sky-fairy apologists are the ideal people to regulate the internet?
So now I have to call the Indian call centre for Virgin and explicitly ASK for access to knuckle-shuffling material? That seems the wrong way to go about it.
I manage my children's access online, and I don't feel I need permission to look at perfectly LEGAL things...
Can we clarify, are Virgin et al blocking ALL access by default or offering some numpty desktop app that will do it?
Because if we fit the tubes with an anti-jub switch...
...anyone stupid enough to believe in a zombie carpenter and his invisible cloud daddy is going to be too stupid to ask for it to applied to *them*.
Tune in next week when we block websites for gay dating, evolution, and logic.
How will the porn be classified?
Will stuff that is otherwise nasty/unsuitable for children be included?
Will mum and dad be able to enjoy porn as part of a healthy sex life, while keeping it hidden from the kids?
Will Middlesex and Scunthorpe suddenly disappear?
Will it block the spreading of porn through filehosts, P2P etc?
British Standard Morality!
So, who gets to define what is porn or not? The Mother's Union? That'll be fun.
And obviously, a meaningful relationship is not necessarily a substitute for porn, depending on the intersection of the set of leisure actvities of the people involved.
Like that will work!
Plan A - you want to block porn from your internet connection than simply use a filtered DNS server like OpenDNS that does the job for you - and then stop all DNS requests at your firewall to prevent easy workarounds.
Plan B - none - this is dead in the water because people are too stupid to even implement Plan A ... although I must admit I'd like to see the list of government offices that would all have to "opt-in" under this arrangement.
Sexualised Content on the Web
I am more concerned with the content coming from the TV in the corner. Lilli Kelly shoe's come with free make up to make you more attractive. These are aimed at 3 to 4 year olds. This is what is wrong not my ability to view porn on my PC after the kids have gone to bed.
Controlling what the kids see on the computer is easy if parents could be bothered. Most parents are too stoopid or lazy to take an interest in what their kids are doing.
Blocking Facebollox! now that would be a worthy use of a general block for society.
When I got broadband in 2000 it was so could get faster better porn. It was the only decent (sorry, worthwhile) content on the net at the time. Why should I have to sign up again, I've already expressed my requirement to access it!
Nah - Counterstrike
Though admittedly porn was up there...
This has been done before, numerous times. Every single attempt at censoring the internet has failed miserably, especially when attempted by Governments.
I have a better plan: set up a Government ISP, run on top of resold BT ADSL. This Government ISP would be sold at cost, and would be guaranteed fully censored, and would be a strict opt-in service. Given the marvellous efficiency and cheap cost of all Government IT (see also: NHS Plan for IT, ID Cards etc) this service would end up costing hundreds of pounds per minute, and would spend most of its time down, if it ever got working at all. It would however give us somewhere to tell the religio-morons somewhere to go.
Without wishing to be cast as a smut ogler...
... as I'd never do something so reprehensible and, indeed, bandwidth-consuming (apparently).
There were 21.8M households in the UK in 2008, of which 15.8M had no dependent children, according to the ONS. As one of the 15.8M, I'm getting a bit tired of the constant pandering to breeders. It's a "bonfire of the quangos" and serious belt-tightening for every other part of society - isn't it about time to expect parents to make more responsibility for their lifestyle choices?
And your average teenager is going to have no problem getting opted-in, of course, so it's transparently-empty rhetoric from Old Mother Cameron. Pass me the sick bag.
Well, as one of the other 6M households
I agree completely.
Of course my kids are still getting their jollies from Iggle Piggle, and drawing on daddy's monitor, but you're bang-on. We're back to the same old argument that we can show slaughter and mayhem, crime, injury, war and death to our kids, but as an adult I can't see some good old-fashioned shagging...
And then what counts as "inappropriate content" after the mechanisms are in place? What genre guts the trigger pulled next?
And censorship begins
I'm quite okay with an opt-out. I'm quite okay with governments *requiring* ISPs to prominently offer parental controls / filtering software in their routers / server side / PC for those who choose to install it. I'm not at all okay with a government which thinks there is nothing wrong with censorship which is what this is tantamount to. You'd think the conservatives would have more of a clue about that given their supposed "small government" stance.
In other news...
All knives are now to be sold blunt (to prevent childred hurting themselves); if you want them sharp, you will have to ask extra for that.
All cars will now be supplied with the wheels welded fixed so no children hurt themselves with them (teenagers too :)
All children must be strapped into straight jackets and chained to the floor to stop them moving around and falling over (or perhaps the Mothers of god-botherers instead).
I have another idea. Anybody who is not responsible enough to be a parent should not be one. If they end up one by accident, take away the children and give them to someone responsible instead.